Firewatch | Spoiler Discussion
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Zeouterlimits
Member
Literally just finished it, in one sitting.
The absolute gut punch of the opening and kind of weird tension for the first two others are the highlight for me.
I kind of expected Delilah to not stick around even after she agreed to.
Mixed feelings about Brian & that aspect of the plot.
The absolute gut punch of the opening and kind of weird tension for the first two others are the highlight for me.
I kind of expected Delilah to not stick around even after she agreed to.
Mixed feelings about Brian & that aspect of the plot.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Finished it. the game before the ending was a great experience and very engaging and the ending, eh, ill take it for what it is....but I can't help but feel like I was jipped.
Felt like it should have been 10 bucks instead of the 18 i paid for it. I feel like I should have waited a year when it would be 10 or less.
Felt like it should have been 10 bucks instead of the 18 i paid for it. I feel like I should have waited a year when it would be 10 or less.
BlackGhost
Banned
Remember Delilah was kind of worried about not reporting Brian earlier? I kind of thought Delilah might escape at the end and leave you in the burning woods. Maybe try and cover herself lol
Just finished and i really liked it. To be honest I sort of get that there were maybe too much red herrings for the ending sake. Creating that sense of paraonia was really good but when you get the payout it feels like a few loose threads sorts of hold back the story. I wish I had more with the Ned reveal, maybe a radio conversation. The fence thing was sort of weird because in the end even if it does seem to be a proper research site hijacked by Ned it still seems weird.
Also I just hoped a glimpse of Delilah at the end. Like maybe instead of the radio call, a letter with a photo or something. But i'm nitpicking.
But yeah it's actually quite an introspective story about loneliness and escaping our feelings and building new ones. It needs reflection to find the real payout of the story. And it's a good one.
Also I just hoped a glimpse of Delilah at the end. Like maybe instead of the radio call, a letter with a photo or something. But i'm nitpicking.
But yeah it's actually quite an introspective story about loneliness and escaping our feelings and building new ones. It needs reflection to find the real payout of the story. And it's a good one.
theepicoftyler
Member
I just finished it, not sure how I feel about the end. I think the research camp stuff was dumb.
I thought it had a good tension rolling into the end that it didn't really pay off in any really satisfying way.
I would love a game where I can navigate the world with a topo map and carry out tasks though. I did my geology field camp in Shoshone National Forest, and I was nostalgic as fuck playing this.
Here is a video of the only jump scare that happened for me in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWpJ6oJWjQU
After you run into the man on your first day... and me still trying to figure out the controls.
I thought it had a good tension rolling into the end that it didn't really pay off in any really satisfying way.
I would love a game where I can navigate the world with a topo map and carry out tasks though. I did my geology field camp in Shoshone National Forest, and I was nostalgic as fuck playing this.
Here is a video of the only jump scare that happened for me in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWpJ6oJWjQU
After you run into the man on your first day... and me still trying to figure out the controls.
Butterfly Witch
Member
He wanted to have his kid near him. He had already experienced loss, that's why he chose to become a Firewatcher originally and he was trying to bond with his kid in the only way he knew how.
Considering the year that the game takes place and the fact that the dude was a burned out army guy, he was distrustful of the establishment as a whole, another reason why he probably picked the job as a Firewatcher in the middle of nowhere.
In the end he tried too hard and the kid ends up dying through no fault of his own and only after that did he truly start to bond with the kid for who he was (Wizards & Wyverns or whatever it was) instead of trying to shape the kid into something else (the note where the kid hid the anchors from his dad).
He could have called it in, buried his kid, be questioned for god knows how long and then the kid would be even further away from him. This way he just turned into a hermit next to something that was dear to his heart, his son.
You're right that the motivations lined up, I just felt like I need a little more time... be it for the story to breathe and come together, or for other reasons. Can't say I can put a finger on it.
Butterfly Witch
Member
I think in the end it's just a guy who was too scared of the world. He sees you walk out of the cave where his dead son is and he doesn't know you don't have the key. He panics and starts to spy on you. The rest is him preying on the paranoia of both Henry and Delilah so he can smokescreen the whole "there's a dead kid in the cave".
I think in the end the real ending is not figuring out who's spying on you but rather when you get to Delilah's tower. The "antagonist" is just a plot device for what I feel the game is really about: a relationship that forms and bonds two strangers who are just running away from the real world.
Heartily agreed on the ending to the game. Just the whole Ned arc that didn't feel paced as well as it could be to me.
serenewarfare
Banned
Just finished it. I loved so many things about it. The dialogue, art, and mechanics were all spectacular. But man did the story fall apart for me. I was so onboard with where they were going with it for the first three hours or so, but the whole last hour with the conspiracy stuff went sideways. And I really didn't like the ending.
I understand the argument of "it's grounded and realistic", but that doesn't make it a good ending for a story. You can't set up plot threads and then not give them a proper and/or satisfactory resolution and then hand wave it away because "it's more realistic this way!"
I understand the argument of "it's grounded and realistic", but that doesn't make it a good ending for a story. You can't set up plot threads and then not give them a proper and/or satisfactory resolution and then hand wave it away because "it's more realistic this way!"
KyanMehwulfe
Member
after you find Brian and get out of the cave, is there more than one way to handle that? or do you always tell D no matter what? I noticed one of the other options was to just tell her call search and rescue, though I'm guessing you still end up telling her why? can you just not even tell her anything (e.g. so you can tell her in person instead) or it's basically required to progress the story?
I chose the call search and rescue option in my playthrough, and yes she asks why and you tell her. Guess you can't really avoid it, though maybe if you just don't use the radio you don't? Not sure.
Overall I enjoyed it and thought I got my money's worth. Liked the disposable camera and being able to upload the photos at the end. Kind of a neat feature.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
It can work, if you don't include all of the fake research bullshit. The most annoying thing, still, is that these are people who should know better. Maybe there's a logic to it beyond what we've been able to rip apart, but if so, I need them to explain it.
In a purely cynical sense it feels like they wanted to subvert expectations, but cheated to get there and expect to get away with it.
Still love this game btw, just so many little things get in the way of me really walking away from the experience completely satisfied.
ramoisdead
Member
I finished the game on Steam in about 5 hours according to the playtime ticker.
Overall, I liked the game up to the ending. I don't know...maybe I was waiting for a holy shit moment or something but it ended...just like that. I guess it would work in the movies in a sense, still I was hoping the ending would just make me playing this game all the more memorable.
Don't get me wrong, I love the rapport between Hank (heh) and Delilah, the girls messing around with me, and the mystery behind Brian Goodwin. I'm okay with the length of the game as well. I just wish it delivered that "bang" that people were hyping up before the game's release.
Overall, I liked the game up to the ending. I don't know...maybe I was waiting for a holy shit moment or something but it ended...just like that. I guess it would work in the movies in a sense, still I was hoping the ending would just make me playing this game all the more memorable.
Don't get me wrong, I love the rapport between Hank (heh) and Delilah, the girls messing around with me, and the mystery behind Brian Goodwin. I'm okay with the length of the game as well. I just wish it delivered that "bang" that people were hyping up before the game's release.
Every time I climbed a rock face after they started hinting at some weird Lost-esque storyline I felt like someone was going to be there to scare the shit out of me. Only game that's truly done that besides this one was the original Fear and that fucking start scene.
Story was great, ending was alright. Still an awesome game and gorgeous like nothing I've seen before.
Story was great, ending was alright. Still an awesome game and gorgeous like nothing I've seen before.
LightofRohan
Member
I'm not a big fan of these story games that like to play with your perceptions, building up to something crazy, "oh man, is it aliens? Is it murder?! Government conspiracy??!" Then it turns out to just be about life and something simple. I mean, I get it and it's great not being predictable, but it's like "ohhhh! You got me! I thought it was gonna be something intense and interesting but it was just boring and reality! Haha.. Thanks for the 6 hour lead up... Ha..."
(Gone Home and Firewatch)
If this happens again I think I'm just done with story games like this.
That kind of thing just seems like it'd play better with film or something less involved.
(Gone Home and Firewatch)
If this happens again I think I'm just done with story games like this.
That kind of thing just seems like it'd play better with film or something less involved.
LightofRohan
Member
Yea... I get this. But for a 5-6 hour game, it's kind of less impactful. Maybe it would make a better 45 minute TV episode or short movie.
It is all just kind of... "Neat."
Turnbl
Member
I thought that was a great experience. Congrats to the devs for taking personal and creative risks to produce a unique and mature game.
There were certain aspects that the game absolutely nailed - the simple yet deep introduction, the physical and timed radio interaction with D, the music kicking in during certain walks, the general lighting and art direction, the caves, the credits song and photos.
The theme of isolation and stasis, and the guilt of trying to move on through meeting D for me was the core of the game. I took the the whole forest to be a metaphor for Julia's mind and illness, at first a beautiful place, yet slowly revealing paranoia and confusion, before finally succumbing to the intense fire, the life once there extinguished.
I agree with most that the Brian/Ned reveal didn't hit the spot. As I was fully bought in to the Henry/D narrative I hadn't really paid much attention to the related comments or fully read the notes etc. It's interesting that Jane Ng said the last third of the game was rewritten after September. I wonder how it played out previously.
Had the devs had more time/money I would have liked to have seen more optional free-play between the story progress - fishing, putting out fires, animal encounters, book/gadget collecting (build a record player so you can listen to music!), cook/eat/drink, hut improvements. Maybe a mode after the game finishes where you go back to re-soil, plant new trees, build a new hut. But i guess this then intrinsically changes the finite nature of the experience and the scale of the game. Maybe less is more.
It would be interesting to know if new stories could be created easily in the same environment with less dev overhead as the building blocks are now in place? Maybe a serial killer DLC set in the 70s to scratch that Firewatch itch!
Anyway, I'm rambling, I'll certainly play this again in the near future once the patches have been released. Congrats again to the dev, looking forward to seeing what comes next from Campo Santo.
There were certain aspects that the game absolutely nailed - the simple yet deep introduction, the physical and timed radio interaction with D, the music kicking in during certain walks, the general lighting and art direction, the caves, the credits song and photos.
The theme of isolation and stasis, and the guilt of trying to move on through meeting D for me was the core of the game. I took the the whole forest to be a metaphor for Julia's mind and illness, at first a beautiful place, yet slowly revealing paranoia and confusion, before finally succumbing to the intense fire, the life once there extinguished.
I agree with most that the Brian/Ned reveal didn't hit the spot. As I was fully bought in to the Henry/D narrative I hadn't really paid much attention to the related comments or fully read the notes etc. It's interesting that Jane Ng said the last third of the game was rewritten after September. I wonder how it played out previously.
Had the devs had more time/money I would have liked to have seen more optional free-play between the story progress - fishing, putting out fires, animal encounters, book/gadget collecting (build a record player so you can listen to music!), cook/eat/drink, hut improvements. Maybe a mode after the game finishes where you go back to re-soil, plant new trees, build a new hut. But i guess this then intrinsically changes the finite nature of the experience and the scale of the game. Maybe less is more.
It would be interesting to know if new stories could be created easily in the same environment with less dev overhead as the building blocks are now in place? Maybe a serial killer DLC set in the 70s to scratch that Firewatch itch!
Anyway, I'm rambling, I'll certainly play this again in the near future once the patches have been released. Congrats again to the dev, looking forward to seeing what comes next from Campo Santo.
Haunted
Member
Even if the game seems to have gotten a somewhat mixed reception judging from the OT and this thread, it did spark some fine discussions. I'm sure at least the Campo Santo GAFers are following this thread and hopefully enjoying how people are engaging with the game and dissect and discuss the story and writing.
This is a good analysis of Ned, I'm convinced.
Caipirinha
Member
They shouldn't feel like they have to defend their game, it's very very good I just felt very let down by the ending, but everything else is top notch. If I eat a three course meal and the first two courses were amazing but the last was disappointing, I'm not going to ask for a fucking refund.. And Firewatch is a lot cheaper than a 3 course meal! They deserve financial success, nothing less.
Finished this yesterday, I really loved the H and D's relationship arc, it's very realistic and personal. I mean, getting the girl at the end would feel a lot more like a movie which doesn't really happen as often in real life. Also great voice actors. In the end, I feel empty, but it's a good way of empty.
The game also makes me paranoid in the mid sections, that is great as the only other game that made me do so was Fatal Frame 2.
The big problem I have with the game is all other plot arcs feels meh. I don't understand why Ned has to go through all the troubles to fuck with Henry, nor the sudden shift of him and Brian becoming a major plot line. PTSD, don't want to be bothered with the cops or anyone doesn't seem like a good enough reason to go out of his way to create attention to himself. When it was revealed it was Ned's doing from the tape, I didn't feel anything as I don't know them aside from a few name mentioning beforehand, much like most of the other side characters like Javier.
The game also makes me paranoid in the mid sections, that is great as the only other game that made me do so was Fatal Frame 2.
The big problem I have with the game is all other plot arcs feels meh. I don't understand why Ned has to go through all the troubles to fuck with Henry, nor the sudden shift of him and Brian becoming a major plot line. PTSD, don't want to be bothered with the cops or anyone doesn't seem like a good enough reason to go out of his way to create attention to himself. When it was revealed it was Ned's doing from the tape, I didn't feel anything as I don't know them aside from a few name mentioning beforehand, much like most of the other side characters like Javier.
Also
WHERE IS MY TURTLE FRIEND ?((
When Delilah says "Pack your things, we're going", you can pick him up and take him. If you didn't, he slowly awaited his impending fiery death wondering where the park ranger who once cared for him had gone.
semiconscious
Member
well put. &, what with most people willing to cut them slack afa 'inconsistencies', i'd say they basically did get away with it
...i appreciate people wanting to support the developer, & what's good in this game is quite good. but mistakes were made here, imo, & it's in the developer's long-term interest that they be pointed out. because i agree: these are people who should know better...
Reckless Onion
Member
chrominance
Member
This was a really fun video to watch, by they by. Even if you didn't like Firewatch in the end, you can think of it as an ersatz episode of Idle Thumbs with special guest Jane and guys from IGN. But if you were into the game at all, it's especially interesting to hear that, in what is otherwise a pretty straightforward narrative with an obvious critical path, there are still tons of opportunities to break sequence that Campo Santo then had to write dialogue for.
It's funny because I've seen at least one person say that Firewatch isn't trying to be an open-world do-anything game, and yet technically it is totally an open-world game, in that most of the time you are out in the environment, you are able to fuck off and do whatever you want while ignoring Delilah. The challenge of writing for scenarios you didn't originally envision and in fact kind of don't want to care about, but have to because someone might run into it, is fascinating.
I don't think I'll do it now, but I kind of want to replay the game to get to Cottonwood Creek, find the new radio, TELL DELILAH ON THE OLD RADIO, and then NOT PICK IT UP and go to the research site anyways, being all "hi Delilah on the old radio that is tapped I am at the research site oh my god"
benicillin
Banned
Just finished the game, absolutely loved the ending. I was totally down for the conspiracy to get really crazy and everything, but I also loved the idea that this is just a game about getting away from your problems, losing yourself in an "adventure" but ultimately realizing that once you leave you have to face reality again.
As much as I would have personally liked to see Delilah in person or know more about how they end up, ultimately this was a story about two people running away from their problems and there's something really sweet and realistic about having that kind of summer escape / romance with another person and then it ending when you both realize you have to go back to the real world. The scene where you wake up at night and watch the fire with her was really, really well acted and I can't think of a scene that sold me on the believability of their relationship harder than that one.
As much as I would have personally liked to see Delilah in person or know more about how they end up, ultimately this was a story about two people running away from their problems and there's something really sweet and realistic about having that kind of summer escape / romance with another person and then it ending when you both realize you have to go back to the real world. The scene where you wake up at night and watch the fire with her was really, really well acted and I can't think of a scene that sold me on the believability of their relationship harder than that one.
sort of a dumb question, but was it ever said that Ned and Brian were "missing persons"? I kinda zoned out when Delilah would talk about them because i didn't think it'd factor into the main arc so much.
i picked up that they had "disappeared" but i took that to mean they bailed on firewatch. when i found the corpse i thought it sort of didn't make any sense. so they were just always off the grid?
i picked up that they had "disappeared" but i took that to mean they bailed on firewatch. when i found the corpse i thought it sort of didn't make any sense. so they were just always off the grid?
Deaf Spacker
Memb
I beat it this morning after starting last night.
I'm completely underwhelmed by the whole story from the middle to the end, I dunno really, it just seemed to lose its way from that point.
I'm completely underwhelmed by the whole story from the middle to the end, I dunno really, it just seemed to lose its way from that point.
chrominance
Member
It kind of sounds like Ned and Brian didn't have very many connections to the world. They had no other immediate family, and the only indication that anyone else might have known they were out there was that postcard in Brian's hideout that obviously never got sent. For someone to officially go "missing," someone would have to know enough to file a missing persons report. The only person who would've known enough to do so was Delilah.
At least, that's how I read things. Ned seemed like a loner with a kid he loved but didn't really know how to take care of on his own. It wasn't surprising to me at all that no one cared about them vanishing.
tallbroski
Member
Haha it would have been nice if they had stats at the end of the small things you could have done.
You and 10% people saved the turtle
80s Bad Guy
Banned
As drunk as I was last night I'm surprised I was able to make that coherent at all. It feels mean this morning though. I love the idle thumbs guys and my expectations were sky high. I still love the game through all my nitpicking and crude bludgeoning of its plot, but hope they think through some of these critiques for the next Campo Santo game. And I hope there are many more.well put. &, what with most people willing to cut them slack afa 'inconsistencies', i'd say they basically did get away with it
i appreciate people wanting to support the developer, & what's good in this game is quite good. but mistakes were made here, imo, & it's in the developer's long-term interest that they be pointed out. because i agree: these are people who should know better...
Janes response on the steams forums hit hard.
Steve McQueen
Member
Just got done. My conclusion:
Gdamn :/ My thoughts exactly. Wonderful experience let down by the ending.
At one point
I thought Delilah was gonna kill me at the end, because I thought she had killed Ned's son and tried to frame Ned.....which I still think happened.
But instead of that, or another great ending it felled like
Hysterical
Member
Guys, so I ordered the pictures in the mail. I was going through them and noticed some pictures i didnt take. It includes the pictures Ned took and there are some of him and his son. I can upload them if no one has seen them
Aenima
Member
Those pics appear while the credits are rolling. So if u dont skip the credits u can see them in game.
Hysterical
Member
Oh okay awesome. I thought it was so cool they included those. I hope these guys continue to make games.
I enjoyed it, it's a nice game. I really liked the depth and detail they put in - Ned is a big fan of Richard Sturgeon. I noticed that Neal Black is listed in the credits under "Special Thanks", he's also the main character in all the Richard Sturgeon books. I wonder if that's some kind of in-joke or tribute by Campo Santo.
I loved how they play with your emotions all the way through. Yes, you feel disappointed and empty at the end, but that's why I thought it was a really strong ending. You effectively feel like Henry does in that situation. It's almost like everything was a dream, you have to pick up the pieces, move on with your life and face your responsibilities again. In the end, a romance with Delilah wouldn't have worked.
It's bittersweet and that's what I love about it. Far too few games do this and seeing all the responses here I can totally see why. It's quite risky. We as gamers have been conditioned to expect a game to go out with a bang. This one breaks that mold, just like Gone Home did too.
Thank you for this unique and memorable experience Campo Santo!
It's bittersweet and that's what I love about it. Far too few games do this and seeing all the responses here I can totally see why. It's quite risky. We as gamers have been conditioned to expect a game to go out with a bang. This one breaks that mold, just like Gone Home did too.
Thank you for this unique and memorable experience Campo Santo!
The girls or the other firewatchers?
Chobel
Member
It can't be the girls, because the other two persons are male (Referred as M in the note). But you're right it could be the other firewatchers.
zer0blivion
Member
Maybe the rangers, Dave and Ron?
Ghostmaster
Member
I can't believe how much worse the story in this game is compared to Gone Home.
Every pitfall that Gone Home managed to skillfully avoid this game falls in straight on its face. It's kind of amazing in a disappointing sort of way.
Every pitfall that Gone Home managed to skillfully avoid this game falls in straight on its face. It's kind of amazing in a disappointing sort of way.
chrominance
Member
I'm pretty sure that the sheet you find in the research camp with the four subjects and their radio frequencies is actually tracking data for elk that were part of one of the research studies. It had nothing to do with Henry, Delilah or the others; it's just that Henry twisted everything in the tent to fit the theory that some malevolent power was tracking them based on Ned's planted reports. ("Frequent departure from Two Forks area" does happen to match up with Henry's recent activities, but it's also quite possible to read that in the context of animal migratory patterns.)
Finally had time to finish this. Loved it. Really enjoyed using my map and compass to explore. Something I've wanted to do in a game for awhile now. Yes, the ending leaves something left to be desired but the game was always just about these two people connected via radio and that was how it ended. Can't wait to see what Campo does next.
My photos.
My photos.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
To anyone who didn't like the ending: Have you thought that maybe the devs intended you to feel disappointed that Delilah left without you, because that's exactly how Henry felt? One of the dialogue options was "I'm disappointed" even. That was one the reasons I liked the ending, you the player felt pretty much the same emotions as the character did in the game, even though I understood why she left. Others here have mentioned what it's like to form a close relationship with someone without ever even meeting them face to face; it can be pretty awkward, not to mention it could ruin the relationship that you had.