VALVE fires DOTA tourney host, Gabe Newell calls the host "an ass" publicly on Reddit

"Yep. It's video games, why is it supposed to be "professional""

Because it's actually a profession for people. The production crew, the players, the tournament directors, the sponsors, etc. There is a lot of money involved in this, it is professional. It's no longer just a couple of dudes playing at a LAN party.
 
chaobreaker said:
He called EternaLEnVy austistic on stream. The VODs are right there.
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My post from earlier in this thread. Still waiting for someone to tell me exactly when he says this.
sephi22 said:
Wait, what? I think some people in this thread may be uninformed.

James made fun of someone's mentally handicapped brother
Citation needed. I've seen all of the TIs James has hosted and most of the panel during this major. I haven't seen his Dreamleague stuff, but I don't think he's done this. Googling leads to this which is a joke post : https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/47sc46/update_from_the_shanghai_major/d0f9upq

James called another player an autist
People might be going by my post in the Dota 2 OT. This is what the conversation was actually like:
James: I'm not sold on Envy. Who would be sold on Envy? I don't dislike the guy. His drive is that he almost hates the game. Rise or fall its very entertaining to watch him.

Its nice to have people that are stable. No... I don't mean gameplay stable. I mean... y'know?
Cap: Are you saying Envy is an unstable person?
James: I'm saying he's too invested in Dota 2 y'know? Not like that, y'know don't hate the game you work on yourselves y'know. More about an internal investment you know.

http://www.twitch.tv/dotamajor/v/50757535
23 minutes in.

He did say cunt and he has been making fun of other players and the production staff, but the extent of his unprofessionalism has been greatly exaggerated. And yes, I've seen the 2GD in a nutshell video but I'm purely speaking about his presence here.
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EDIT: Once again, if anyone did hear him say the word autistic I will correct myself and stop 'stanning'. But during the time I was watching the panel, I didn't hear him say that word
 
chaobreaker said:
People sure stanning hard for a dude who casually calls players autistic.
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And there are just as many people on the other side who don't know jack shit about the scene or the context.

Those of us who actually watch dota events appreciate James for the entertainment value he brings to the table, entertainment value sorely lacking in every other host, regardless of how professional and politically correct they are. Sheever is good and getting better practically every day but every other host out there you might as well be asleep.

He's a comedian and if you don't like his brand of humor that is fine, but please, please don't hire him for an event and act all surprised when you don't get Mother Theresa.
 
chaobreaker said:
He called EternaLEnVy austistic on stream. The VODs are right there.
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Was this after EE dumped a soda on somebodies head for having him queue on south east Asia servers?

Gabe's a cunt for calling games out when we still have no idea what went down. If what he did was so obnoxious then why not outline it befoe throwing shit?
 
Teknopathetic said:
"Yep. It's video games, why is it supposed to be "professional""

Because it's actually a profession for people. The production crew, the players, the tournament directors, the sponsors, etc. There is a lot of money involved in this, it is professional. It's no longer just a couple of dudes playing at a LAN party.
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Whcih is why the CEO coming and posting that James is an 'ass' when they knew EXACTLY what they were hiring is so unprofessional and silly. Totally agree they should class up their casting and production, so just silently move on from that relationship like any normal company. The only actual unprofessional thing here is what Gabe said, since James was HIRED to do what he does. By definition him casting this stuff as himself (which we know Valve knows, they've hired him plenty before) is his profession.
 
Hylian7 said:
Racism or using "autistic" as an insult is never okay, no matter the context.
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Are we confusing Tobi and James now?
I feel like people are reading the autistic comment rumor or watching the nutshell video and running with it. The VODs are all there. No one's been able to show me the damning proof. Just talking about vague comments or unprofessionalism.
 
Woo-Fu said:
And there are just as many people on the other side who don't know jack shit about the scene or the context.

Those of us who actually watch dota events appreciate James for the entertainment value he brings to the table, entertainment value sorely lacking in every other host, regardless of how professional and politically correct they are.

He's a comedian and if you don't like his brand of humor that is fine, but please, please don't hire him for an event and act all surprised when you don't get Mother Theresa.
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I agree he shouldn't have been hired, but I disagree that "those of us" who watch Dota events universally appreciate him. I've never understood people's draw to James, and I think he's both not funny and bad at his job. I could take him being an asshole if he showed up knowing anything about the current game, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Good riddance as far as I'm concerned.

More than anything I'm glad that Gabe addressed the current production issues. Those are more important by far.
 
TheYanger said:
Whcih is why the CEO coming and posting that James is an 'ass' when they knew EXACTLY what they were hiring is so unprofessional and silly. Totally agree they should class up their casting and production, so just silently move on from that relationship like any normal company.
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You know, that exact situation would result in 'lol Valve's not gonna respond forever'.

Not saying name calling in public is the best PR move ever, but you know that's a realistic outcome of your alternative timeline. ;p
 
It seems this guy has been running with his trashy mouth personality since the start, and only now Lord GabeN is firing him? Not to offend the great Lord, but it is the first time He tuned into DOTA casting?

I would get offended if someone make trashy comments about my mom dying. Although first time i know of the word "Cunt" is more offensive than "Fucker" or "mutha-fucker" around here.
 
sephi22 said:
Are we confusing Tobi and James now?
I feel like people are reading the autistic comment rumor or watching the nutshell video and running with it. The VODs are all there. No one's been able to show me the damning proof. Just talking about vague comments or unprofessionalism.
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If only there was damning proof that the person that Valve have had cast the TI grand finals over the last 2 years was a racist fuck...
 
TheYanger said:
Whcih is why the CEO coming and posting that James is an 'ass' when they knew EXACTLY what they were hiring is so unprofessional and silly. Totally agree they should class up their casting and production, so just silently move on from that relationship like any normal company.
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No, you don't just go silently when the loud parts of the community are burning you at the stake for that decision. After the diretide debacles and similar valve knows that not giving their perspective at all is even worse.
 
Hylian7 said:
Racism or using "autistic" as an insult is never okay, no matter the context.
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I'm fairly certain he never actually said EE was autistic. It went something along the lines of EE being a person that you wouldn't want on your team because he's unstable and "too invested" in the game.
 
Falk said:
You know, that exact situation would result in 'lol Valve's not gonna respond forever'.

Not saying name calling in public is the best PR move ever, but you know that's a realistic outcome of your alternative timeline. ;p
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You can respond without calling him an ass though. Calls for the sport to be treated professionally have to resound from the top, and that's Gabe. If he's going to act out about it it undermines the entire principal here.

NaDannMaGoGo said:
No, you don't just go silently when the loud parts of the community are burning you at the stake for that decision. After the diretide debacles and similar valve knows that not giving their perspective at all is even worse.
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Silently != publicly insulting an ex-employee. Saying what happened would go a longer way towards garnering sympathy, and acting angry about it does less.
 
TheYanger said:
You can respond without calling him an ass though. Calls for the sport to be treated professionally have to resound from the top, and that's Gabe. If he's going to act out about it it undermines the entire principal here.
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New to this, do we know the moment that got him fired? Do we know the reason Gabe called him an ass?
 
Rezbit said:
Strikes me as the kids have been fucking around and now Dad's come home and seen what they've been doing - and he's pissed.
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leIEZiV.gif
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It still does feel a little strange that he was told to be himself and this happens. I wonder if the ones who pitched for him to return didn't really paint a good picture of how he actually is to the decision makers at valve.

Did he seem to act any differently to anyone that watched?
I wonder if this is the first that Newell's actually heard of the guy and he had other people take care of stuff like this. Then when he actually saw it was like "hell no."
 
Justinh said:
It still does feel a little strange that he was told to be himself and this happens. I wonder if the ones who pitched for him to return didn't really paint a good picture of how he actually is to the decision makers at valve.

Did he seem to act any differently to anyone that watched?
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There's nothing to pitch, though. He's hosted the freaking International before. I don't even care about Dota, TI is literally the only thing related to Dota I watch or play, so when I can instantly recognize the guy and his voice and tell you what he's like, I would expect the people that paid him to do those things can too.
 
Hylian7 said:
Racism or using "autistic" as an insult is never okay, no matter the context.
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And I think you're entirely wrong. People should be able to joke about anything. If you don't like it then take your thin skin somewhere else when the humor becomes offensive. Nobody is making you consume any of this media. I mean that in general. Obviously there will be taboos for particular events/locations/communities that are best left alone.

If you got rid of every joke that somebody in the world might be offended by you'd put the majority of comedians out of business.
 
Justinh said:
It still does feel a little strange that he was told to be himself and this happens. I wonder if the ones who pitched for him to return didn't really paint a good picture of how he actually is to the decision makers at valve.

Did he seem to act any differently to anyone that watched?
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We really saw nothing. He didn't say anything offensive and shit was just normal. Something must have happened behind the scenes? Maybe I don't remember, it was kind of late.
 
Falk said:
You know, that exact situation would result in 'lol Valve's not gonna respond forever'.

Not saying name calling in public is the best PR move ever, but you know that's a realistic outcome of your alternative timeline. ;p
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The most reasonable alternative is for Valve to take the blame for their mistake, namely hiring James to do James things. Calling him an ass in a public forum is just downright shitty. I would feel like I was walking on eggshells if I was a caster or personality knowing that Valve so carelessly threw the host they hired under the bus for what appears to be their own dumb decisions. Maybe there's more to it that we aren't aware of, but that's all the more reason as to why they shouldn't just insult the guy.
 
Anno said:
I agree he shouldn't have been hired, but I disagree that "those of us" who watch Dota events universally appreciate him. I've never understood people's draw to James, and I think he's both not funny and bad at his job. I could take him being an asshole if he showed up knowing anything about the current game, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Good riddance as far as I'm concerned.

More than anything I'm glad that Gabe addressed the current production issues. Those are more important by far.
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Humor is subjective, but I think he's good at his job (of hosting). He's not supposed to know a lot about the game. Even if he does, it's not his job to talk about the game. He's supposed to be in charge of making sure the conversation flows well between panelists, cutting to breaks/interviews, filling downtime,etc. and he does that well. Redeye and Chobra are both hosts who have limited knowledge of the game but have a more family friendly image (Redeye less than Chobra)

longdi said:
It seems this guy has been running with his trashy mouth personality since the start, and only now Lord GabeN is firing him? Not to offend the great Lord, but it is the first time He tuned into DOTA casting?
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That would be surprising since the great lord hired him to host the great lord's biggest tournament of the year.

I would get offended if someone make trashy comments about my mom dying. Although first time i know of the word "Cunt" is more offensive than "Fucker" or "mutha-fucker" around here.
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Yes, that years old Video of James making fun of that dude's mom dying while hosting a Starcraft thing is totally indicative of his TI hosting.
 
Justinh said:
It still does feel a little strange that he was told to be himself and this happens. I wonder if the ones who pitched for him to return didn't really paint a good picture of how he actually is to the decision makers at valve.

Did he seem to act any differently to anyone that watched?
I wonder if this is the first that Newell's actually heard of the guy and he had other people take care of stuff like this. Then when he actually saw it was like "hell no."
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It does seem like it.
 
Woo-Fu said:
And I think you're entirely wrong. People should be able to joke about anything. If you don't like it then take your thin skin somewhere else. Nobody is making you consume any of this media.

If you got rid of every joke that somebody in the world might be offended by you'd put the majority of comedians out of business.
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I didn't know color commentators had to have a set ready to go while talking about dota.
 
Woo-Fu said:
And I think you're entirely wrong. People should be able to joke about anything. If you don't like it then take your thin skin somewhere else. Nobody is making you consume any of this media.

If you got rid of every joke that somebody in the world might be offended by you'd put the majority of comedians out of business.
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I think it's all a matter of perspective, relativity and context.

I've lived on opposite sides of the world. First quarter century of my life, I lived in a multicultural, multiracial country where we used a particular racial slur (pertaining to a culture not even from our continent) as a joke among friends. Moved to the other side of the globe, quickly discovered that the same racial slur can and will get you beaten up on the street because of, among other things, historical and contemporary context.

That's an extreme example. Bottom line is, just because your immediate company may have thick skin doesn't mean it's suitable on any public platform, especially in our increasingly interconnected global environment.
 
Woo-Fu said:
And I think you're entirely wrong. People should be able to joke about anything. If you don't like it then take your thin skin somewhere else. Nobody is making you consume any of this media.

If you got rid of every joke that somebody in the world might be offended by you'd put the majority of comedians out of business.
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While I agree on the sanctity of being able to joke about anything, this guy wasn't just representing himself, but Valve & Dota2 in general. If he wants to continue to do commentary over streams, he no doubt can, but to be one of the official voices of an eSport requires a bit more sensibility than that.
 
Gabe: James we need to fire you PUBLICLY so we can salvage this piece of shit major.. Let's make a big showcase out of this..

James: Whatever. Call me an ass or something.
 
sephi22 said:
Humor is subjective, but I think he's good at his job (of hosting). He's not supposed to know a lot about the game. Even if he does, it's not his job to talk about the game. He's supposed to be in charge of making sure the conversation flows well between panelists, cutting to breaks/interviews, filling downtime,etc. and he does that well. Redeye and Chobra are both hosts who have limited knowledge of the game but have a more family friendly image (Redeye less than Chobra)
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Well, yeah, I don't expect them to be the experts. But I feel like Redeye, Sheever, Chobra would have come in at least knowing a bit about the current meta to use in leading the panel discussion. Instead it was James fake-apologizing for not being caught up on the game. I remember someone explaining a new ability, I think maybe Savage Roar, which was introduced weeks ago. Seems like a poor job being ready to direct a panel to me.
 
I don't understand how are people allowed to keep saying he's a racist fuck and called EE autistic without ever showing proof. You don't sling mud like that oh so casually. If he did then fuck him and ban him forever from casting, until then I'd like to see a bit of a "put up or shut up" line embraced by the moderation team in here. I mean, spreading rumors like that one (racist, etc) can ruin lives, maybe not in his case but still, not cool.
Proofs, people. Until then I'd say Gabe was the most unprofessional one. We'll see the statement, at this point their stances couldn't be farther: on one side "he was given one more chance" and on the other he was "told to be himself"... seems strange you'd expect a caster/personality doing a 180° in how he handles hosting all of the sudden.
 
Tenebrous said:
While I agree on the sanctity of being able to joke about anything, this guy wasn't just representing himself, but Valve & Dota2 in general. If he wants to continue to do commentary over streams, he no doubt can, but to be one of the official voices of an eSport requires a bit more sensibility than that.
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And I agree with you 100% which is why I wouldn't have hired James if I wanted that sort of representation. Yet Valve knew exactly what they were getting and hired him anyway.

That is the most confusing bit about this. I don't think it can be about Jame's performance on stream without Valve being entirely to blame. If you don't want to blame Valve then we need some off-camera antics.

All we know about that is him not following production's lead one time when they wanted to end a particular segment---a segment which happened to be going very well although that might not have been apparent to the Chinese people in charge of production for the English presentation.
 
Woo-Fu said:
And I agree with you 100% which is why I wouldn't have hired James if I wanted that sort of representation. Yet Valve knew exactly what they were getting and hired him anyway.

That is the most confusing bit about this. I don't think it can be about Jame's performance on stream without Valve being entirely to blame. If you don't want to blame Valve then we need some off-camera antics.

All we know about that is him not following production's lead one time when they wanted to end a particular segment---a segment which happened to be going very well although that might not have been apparent to the Chinese people in charge of production for the English presentation.
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Can't disagree with any of that.
 
Dash Kappei said:
I don't understand how are people allowed to keep saying he's a racist fuck and called EE autistic without ever showing proof. You don't sling mud like that oh so casually. If he did then fuck him and ban him forever from casting, until then I'd like to see a bit of a "put up or shut up" line embraced by the moderation team in here. I mean, spreading rumors like that one (racist, etc) can ruin lives, maybe not in his case but still, not cool.
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Thank you. I feel like people are just ignoring my post. Casual watchers are just doing drive-by's crying racism and the autism comment without doing any research. That video from the Starcraft days is hilarious too because it's so out of context and has nothing to do with his Dota 2 work.

This is his hosting at Dota 2's International - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tavvtZbPc&t=7m01s

Hylian7 said:
I have no idea, but regardless, not what I meant to imply. I was more referencing Tobi, as I had heard similar defenses of him.
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lol. That's some dumb as fuck logic. You can't just casually call him racist for that reason. People won't know you're talking about Tobi. You've been in the community for a long time Hylian you should know better than that.
 
The Goat said:
Uh, yeah...
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Honestly, just going off of that video alone, it seems to me more like he's got a very twisted sense of humour than anything else (it didn't sound like he actually meant most of the stupid shit he said in there and he also poked fun at himself). But, of course, I may be wrong here, I'd never previously heard of the guy and like I said, I'm only basing this on that one video.
 
sephi22 said:
Thank you. I feel like people are just ignoring my post. Casual watchers are just doing drive-by's crying racism and the autism comment without doing any research. That video from the Starcraft days is hilarious too because it's so out of context and has nothing to do with his Dota 2 work.

This is his hosting at Dota 2's International - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7tavvtZbPc&t=7m01s


lol. That's some dumb as fuck logic. You can't just casually call him racist for that reason. People won't know you're talking about Tobi. You've been in the community for a long time Hylian you should know better than that.
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???

I didn't call him a racist. The conversation was about brands of humor. I apologize if that wasn't clear.
 
^
You said racism or calling someone an autist are both unacceptable. I completely agree, but they have nothing to do with this thread or case. But I'm sorry I was confused.
 
sephi22 said:
^
You said racism or calling someone an autist are both unacceptable. I completely agree, but they have nothing to do with this thread or case. But I'm sorry I was confused.
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They had to do with the post I was responding to. This isn't worth arguing about.
 
woodland said:
You should probably read up on it before you post about it
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No thanks, I think my knowledge is fine after watching 2GD and Dota 2 for years, knowing that he's always been like this yet still enjoying him and that it's surprising Valve would make the decision to hire him knowing that he's always like this.
 
Racist? James is an ass, but that's his style. He has been that way before even Dota 2 existed. How is this a problem now? He's hosted many Dota 2 events with zero issues, and often carries the entire show with his strange quirks.

I mean with all the production problems they had in this major, the only redeeming quality of it was listening to James try and fill in hours of down-time like a fucking champ.

But no, let's keep on falsely accusing him of being a racist and calling people autistic while letting Tobi keep casting grand finals
 
I just picture gabe submitting that on reddit and thinking how badass he sounds. some serious red flags here with this company.
 
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