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[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

So, if you're looking to get better, there are FAR better ways to do it than ranked. You could play longer sets of Battle Lounge with your fellow gaffers (we actually team up here often to play sets, its quite nice) and that will give you great match up data against certain characters. You could play casual matchmaking, where ragequitting seems to be far less prevalent. You have options.

I'll think about it for sure but all the rage quitting has left a bad taste in my mouth for now. People rage quit in casual matches as well

 

[mbpm1]

Which is weird since Capcom made SRK > FADC Forward/Back unsafe in Ultra SF4 and yet no-one punished it

FADC Back is still pretty hard to punish for most of the cast.

I'll think about it for sure but all the rage quitting has left a bad taste in my mouth for now. People rage quit in casual matches as well

If Gaffers rage quit on you at least you can call em out here

Spoiler

As we have been doing

 

[Omnistalgic]

Where do you consider the "high level" to start at?
The way rank works in this game is ridiculous.
I mean 90% of the population (probably more) is sitting at Bronze and Rookie league...

i would say it starts with mid range gold, preferably a little further into the rank like super gold etc...Elite players are about to be out of gold and go to diamond and platinum, I think even rage quitters aren't going to get out of gold if they make it there in the first place. There are a ton of frauds, but you have to account for the group of players that are actually good, but not taking losses when they don't feel like it and abusing the RQ. They will be higher than normal until it's patched but will still beat a lot of the players 3k and down. I would say it's fair to conclude if someone reaches 4K they are competent in the game. High level people are not even playing enough rank yet, but once they do, they will go straight to the top of diamond tier, no question about it. The best will get the title names like master and grand master, but they still have to play a lot.

So good players will hit gold. this is intermediate level, solid play, only tourney players will own them.

High level will be out soon (Plat & Diamond) only people like Diago and MoMo will hit the titles like grand master or elite players that play a LOT of online ranked. They aren't better than people in diamond or platinum, but play a lot and give themselves higher chances to rank up. This is tourney guys

Low level with be in silver this is online warriors, and people that probably just don't play ranked that much. Still know the Basics and decent at the game overall.

New people will stay in bronze

 

[Xeteh]

I really need to play Rashido more. He's super fun.

 

[vg260]

Capcom was stupid for putting trophies for reaching silver and gold league in the game. A lot of players might not ever reach those. That's probably a big reason for the rage quits.
Good example of bad trophy design hurting the online play for a game.

 

[LiK]

Capcom was stupid for putting trophies for reaching silver and gold league in the game. A lot of players might not ever reach those. That's probably a big reason for the rage quits.
Good example of bad trophy design hurting the online play for a game.

yup, I always appreciated the CoD games not putting trophies with their MP modes like Prestiging.

 

[mnz]

I'm pretty sure that happened in console games before and that's why games like CoD don't have that stuff anymore

 

[Durden77]

I could see having a trophy for ranking up a Leauge once, but yeah having one for silver and especially gold is stupid. There are some players that don't want to play SF to really improve and they just want to have fun and beat ass. And they will never be able to get that.

I should be able to get it eventually. Closing in on silver leauge now, but it was a dumb choice.

I wonder if they'll add more trophies for the updates. Hope there's some for story shit.

 

[Nephtes]

Capcom was stupid for putting trophies for reaching silver and gold league in the game. A lot of players might not ever reach those. That's probably a big reason for the rage quits.
Good example of bad trophy design hurting the online play for a game.

Pretty much... I wonder if the Trophy Guide lists "Rage Quitting" as a good technique for getting the Gold and Silver League trophies if you suck...

Seriously though, if you know you suck at Street Fighter, and fighting games in general, why would you pick SFV to trophy hunt in?

 

[Platinum Mad]

Really hope the patch is early March but I'm kinda doubting it will be since they haven't announced anything yet. Don't really want to dive in until the rage quit issue is fixed.

 

[Xeteh]

Sitting juuuust under 300k FM, beating Bison on Survival always feel good. Rashid is easy to exploit with his Eagle Spike.

 

[ViviOggi]

The only bad design decision/mind-boggling oversight is not punishing disconnects. If there was a standard penalty the achievements would have no impact on online play whatsoever. There'd still be the issue with achievement hounds who are bad at fighting games having to practice to get 100% but I don't see how that differs from skill-based SP achievements in any other game.

 

[mnz]

The only bad design decision/mind-boggling oversight is not punishing disconnects. If there was a standard penalty the achievements would have no impact on online play whatsoever. There'd still be the issue with achievement hounds who are bad at fighting games having to practice to get 100% but I don't see how that differs from skill-based SP achievements in any other game.

Putting costume colors behind a garbage survival mode isn't especially good either

RQ'ng would be just as prevalent if there were no trophies and just points. People suck.

I don't believe it would. Some people are really fixated on getting trophies.

 

[Bizazedo]

I have some questions about frame data and M.Bison. I may not fully understand how frame data works.

M.Bison's HK Scissors is -2 on block, and MK is -3. Are these considered "safe"? I know that LK at -4 is unsafe.

If you block. Some are actually walking at Bison now and throwing, though, so get the spacing down.

Ryu's jab is 3F.
M.Bison's jab is 4F.
After Ryu blocks HK Scissors, his jab should beat Bison's jab?

Believe so / depending on range.

Nash's jab is 4F.
M.Bison's jab is 4F.
After Nash blocks HK Scissors, his jab should beat Bison's jab?

Believe so / depending on range,

Can I ever afford to press buttons after scissors is blocked (excluding EX)?

People are cowards, try it and see what they do .

Bison's MK Scissors is +2 on hit, and HK is +1.
Bison's 4F jab should beat all other jabs after an MK Scissors hit?
Bison's 4F jab should trade with 3F jabs after an HK Scissors hit?

Yeah.

Not frame data related:
How can I make Bison's throw a threat with his slow walkspeed? How can I tick throw?

Get the dash spacing down / realize his throw range is higher than most people. Hilariously so.

Capcom was stupid for putting trophies for reaching silver and gold league in the game. A lot of players might not ever reach those. That's probably a big reason for the rage quits.
Good example of bad trophy design hurting the online play for a game.

RQ'ng would be just as prevalent if there were no trophies and just points. People suck.

 

[ViviOggi]

Putting costume colors behind a garbage survival mode isn't especially good either

Sure it's actually awful but that's a different issue

 

[sephi22]

2 ragequits in a row on Marn's stream this is hilarious.
http://www.twitch.tv/marnorz

 

[wamberz1]

Was curios to see what a super would look like with transparency.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Was curios to see what a super would look like with transparency.

omg I'm loving these, they're so good

 

[Omnistalgic]

Putting costume colors behind a garbage survival mode isn't especially good either


I don't believe it would. Some people are really fixated on getting trophies.

i don't know man, I think it's ok...it's ridiculous, especially the random spikes in difficulty, but I'd say it's pretty rewarding getting the colors for characters and rare titles. It does add something to the game that wouldn't be there if everyone after 3 weeks had unlocked all the items.

And, beating everyone's easy and normals survival, which gives you a lot of fight money, is not that challenging. It can get tough, but you just have to get a little Accustomed to characters and beat 30 rounds. Hard and Hell, you are only going to beat if you spend time and learn those characters, and it rewards you for almost a million FM between all survival mode and story completed. It's not designed to get you better at the game, that's what training, challenges, and trials mode will accomplish. This is supposed to be a cheap, because there's no other way to make the CPU difficult if you are a competent player. The only adjustment I would make is there is never a low health reward unlock if you are within 10 rounds of the final.

 

[Vex_]

Was curios to see what a super would look like with transparency.

A webpage with these gifs that pop up when you highlight a move name would be pretty cool.


Otherwise, these are just really neat to look at. Dat unreal 4 animation.

 

[vixlar]

i don't know man, I think it's ok...it's ridiculous, especially the random spikes in difficulty, but I'd say it's pretty rewarding getting the colors for characters and rare titles. It does add something to the game that wouldn't be there if everyone after 3 weeks had unlocked all the items.

And, beating everyone's easy and normals survival, which gives you a lot of fight money, is not that challenging. It can get tough, but you just have to get a little Accustomed to characters and beat 30 rounds. Hard and Hell, you are only going to beat if you spend time and learn those characters, and it rewards you for almost a million FM between all survival mode and story completed. It's not designed to get you better at the game, that's what training, challenges, and trials mode will accomplish. This is supposed to be a cheap, because there's no other way to make the CPU difficult if you are a competent player. The only adjustment I would make is there is never a low health reward unlock if you are within 10 rounds of the final.

Or at least let us spend those points on continues...

 

[Bizazedo]

I think it's time for an update from Capcom on patch / news / etc.

I want one, anyways.

 

[Shito]

Or at least let us spend those points on continues...

That's actually quite a genius idea!

 

[Edzi]

Hate to break this to ya - i've been specializing in Necalli since before launch, and have come to the decision that Necalli is, by far, the worst character in the game.

I've also been maining Necalli since the betas, and while I'm no fighting game pro, I don't think I'd agree with you here. I'll try to respond just based on what I've been seeing as someone who just reached Silver rank.

As to your question, his only 'real' combo that starts off lights would a counter hit cr.lp->cr.mk->bf lp charge.

Now, into detail why Necalli is the worst character in the game. Let's talk about his Crush Counter buttons for a moment. Two of them, Cr. HP & st.Hp, will ALWAYS knock the opponent into an aerial spin on hit, and the only thing Necalli can follow this up with is either super, a stomp, or st.hk. Most other characters can get actual combos & even get some wake up setups off of a crush counter. Necalli? Stomp, if you weren't that far out.

What about st.hk? Thats a crush counter right? Yeah, sure. Its a great normal for Necalli. The problem is both in how far back it pushes the opponent out, and its start-up time is so long, it will get stuft if you try to throw it in near-close/medium-close range footsies. Optimally, you'll be in a medium-close range when you land it, allowing you to walk up st.hp into his bnb (st.hp->mk stomp->cr.mp->bf.lp charge) but thats only really going to work if you were at the appropriate range. See, most of Necalli's normals push your opponent out a tremendous amount.

His crush counter game is fine, and just because he can't convert each one into a full combo isn't necessarily a negative since he has so many of them. His anti air crush counter is pretty useful, and can be followed up with a sweep if you're within range for decent damage. Plus, even if he's out of range, a crush counter will sometimes allow you to close the gap and get in, which is exactly what you want as a Necalli player. Like I said before, he's got around 5 different crush counter moves, so I'd say that the reason st. hk has so much pushback is because they probably wanted to make each one useful for different things. There's also nothing wrong with some random crush counters just for the raw damage, since the damage will add up with all his CC options.

Most characters get to throw out 3-4 cr.lp or cr.lk block strings, starting from near-close range, to push an opponent out of close range. Necalli gets 2, if that. None of Necalli's lights are fast enough to actual beat a spamming lp or lk on block, so if you even think about hitting a button, you just gave your opponent a free counter. Necalli even has a cr.mk that has some of the longest startup for what is ideally meant to be a fast & long range poke that doesn't really lead into anything, which it doesn't for Necalli.

Isn't Necalli one of the few characters who has 3 frame jabs? I've been getting a lot of milage out of them just by interrupting the opponent, and on counter hit you can get decent damage by going into cr. MP > special.

See, Necalli doesn't actually get a whole lot off of his footsies. He doesn't get good positioning. He doesn't get good setups. He gets 'some' good damage, depending on two things: 1. did you counter hit on his cr.mp/st.mp/cr.mk? 2. Do you have a fast enough reaction to switch your lk.stomp to mk.stomp? At higher levels of play, stomp is super unsafe. Its intimidating for new players or lower ranks, especially because of how much block stun you have to eat, but unless you know it, its actually super unsafe in its mk/hk iterations. The only reason you'd wanna use the lk version is because it is guaranteed to combo off of cr.mp/cr.mk without needing a counter hit, but you don't get to follow-up after it hits, plus it has way fewer frames of recovery, meaning you might just eat a jab or lk instead of a mp or mk instead.

So, two of Necalli's better footsies, st.hp/cr.hp, are basically nerfed by ensuring you cannot get a full combo off a counter hit. If you're a Necalli player, and try using that button, you'll see that when you use st.hp/cr.hp, it actually lands a lot. Its a solid button. Good luck turning it into anything meaningful though, unlike the rest of the cast and their hp buttons.

Necalli's normals are pretty good, so I don't think he's as bad at footsies as you're making him out to be. Knowing your range and throwing out his MP can get you a lot of hits/counter hits that can lead to combos. You can use the stomps to advance on the opponent, and while LK stomp is technically not safe (-4 on block) I think if you get the spacing right it's really hard to punish. MK and HK stomps are safe (-2 and 0 on block respectively), and I've found throwing in a MK stomp after a blocked cr. MK is a pretty good frame trap that can lead into a full BnB combo.

But Necalli has a dive kick! He's the only character in the game with a dive kick that isn't a special! Yeah, that dive-kick is ass. So, it not only stalls you in the air, which, depending on your opponent, is giving them even more time to anti-air you, BUT, you don't even get anything off of it. Even on counter hit! The most you can get from a down.HK aerial dive kick is 2 jabs into ex. stomps. Compare that to any of his other jump ins, even jumping mk, which gives him st.mk, or either of his other jumping heavies, which give him st.hp, and you can see why you'd never wanna use the dive kick for a jump in.

It's not great, but it's situational. If you've got them conditioned for a certain approach, sometimes a divekick can throw them off. It's also not terribly unsafe if you aim for the legs, as you should be doing.

What about Super Saiyan Necalli? The best thing about v-trigger Necalli is that you can now combo cr.mp->mk.stomp on a clean hit (normally, this has to be a counter hit). This, in conjunction with the huge buff Necalli gets to his dash distance & speed, makes his v-trigger form actually quite scary to deal with. You dash in & either command grab or cr.mp->mk.stomp (you can even do two rotations of that before you push your opponent out in v-trgger) to keep up his pressure. Necalli's already useless v-skill even gets a buff on his recovery frames during trigger. I mean, its still 'mostly' useless, you just might not get as punished for daring to use it.

V-Skill is great man, you just have to know when to use it. If someone wants to turtle from full screen, it gives Necalli an option to pressure. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it at long distances, and on hit it gives you enough to time to get a few dashes in to close the gap. It's especially useful against Gief.

Honestly, as a Necalli player, I would GLADLY eat a 15-20% flat damage nerf across the board if it meant removing the design handcuffs that are currently plaguing the character. Necalli & his kit actually have a lot in common with Bison (both characters specials & normals are very frame-trapy). However, Bison outclasses Necalli in every imaginable way. If you're a Necalli player, I highly recommend looking into the boss of Shadowloo. Not only do you get a character that has frame traps, but none of the kit handcuffs, AND you still get to retain the insane damage Necalli dishes out.

Bison is the frametrap/normal king, but I honestly don't consider him too similar to Necalli. They've got different playstyles, and I think Necalli exceeds in areas that Bison doesn't, like general rushdown, he's got more full screen pressure, etc.

Capcom was stupid for putting trophies for reaching silver and gold league in the game. A lot of players might not ever reach those. That's probably a big reason for the rage quits.
Good example of bad trophy design hurting the online play for a game.

Yup, this is definitely one of the most baffling decisions they made with the game. It's odd too, since they seemed to learn that a 10 win streak trophy was a bad idea, but instead replaced it with two online trophies that are even harder to get.

 

[wamberz1]

omg I'm loving these, they're so good

Thanks

 

[sephi22]

Marn is going in on Capcom right now.
Apparently Wolfkrone is a serial ragequitter.

 

[ElTopo]

I am so insanely tired of ragequitters. Almost every dude with a streak or in Gold is a massive bitch. Fuck ragequitters. I'm in Gold, I play against a turtle Ryu and it is incredibly frustrating to get through the fireball keepaway if your character lacks good anti-fireball tools. You have to play so patiently with them, sllllloooooowwwwllllllyyyyy working your way in, wanting them to jump in or do something slightly aggressive, and they of course don't. You get to about a quarter screen distance, you make a read, you go for a poke or neutral jump or whatever, you guessed wrong, they get out of the corner and work themselves back into the other corner, and they win because god forbid I jump in. I take the loss.

I fight another turtle Ryu, I ssssslllllloooooowwwwwwllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy work my way in, I actually get the bastard and just as I'm about to beat this Gold turtle Ryu player he ragequits....

Insert ffffffff.png here.

Sigh. Also noticing a trend with the Karin army using Tenko to get in and it's somehow safe on block online... I don't know why. I know how to punish it. I try to punish it. And nope, they block it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Don't the best online players get a spot in CPT? Is that why they RQ?

 

[ShogunDarius]

just finished the rest of the story I needed to do and thankfully unlike with Ryu I got all the Fight Money I should hve, have enough for Alex and Guile now, just need a little more and i'll get Urien too. I still want that 3K capcom that I lost during Ryus story.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

Marn is going in on Capcom right now.
Apparently Wolfkrone is a serial ragequitter.

When Marn's the good guy in a situation, any situation, you know have fucked up.

Wolfkrone, you've fucked up.

 

[BiggNife]

Marn is going in on Capcom right now.
Apparently Wolfkrone is a serial ragequitter.

Krone being a ragequitter is pretty well documented at this point

He will probably be banned once Capcom starts blocking known ragequitters from CFN which it sounds like will probably be starting this week

Also Marn whines about everything so it's kind of hard to take him seriously

 

[Sinatar]

Don't the best online players get a spot in CPT? Is that why they RQ?

No there will be an online tournament for that, they aren't using LP's.

 

[sixteen-bit]

No there will be an online tournament for that, they aren't using LP's.

How does one get chosen for the tournament though?

 

[Omnistalgic]

Or at least let us spend those points on continues...

Yea, that's actually awesome, makes the point management important. No one uses double down etc....

 

[mbpm1]

I am so insanely tired of ragequitters. Almost every dude with a streak or in Gold is a massive bitch. Fuck ragequitters. I'm in Gold, I play against a turtle Ryu and it is incredibly frustrating to get through the fireball keepaway if your character lacks good anti-fireball tools. You have to play so patiently with them, sllllloooooowwwwllllllyyyyy working your way in, wanting them to jump in or do something slightly aggressive, and they of course don't. You get to about a quarter screen distance, you make a read, you go for a poke or neutral jump or whatever, you guessed wrong, they get out of the corner and work themselves back into the other corner, and they win because god forbid I jump in. I take the loss.

I fight another turtle Ryu, I ssssslllllloooooowwwwwwllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy work my way in, I actually get the bastard and just as I'm about to beat this Gold turtle Ryu player he ragequits....

Insert ffffffff.png here.

Sigh. Also noticing a trend with the Karin army using Tenko to get in and it's somehow safe on block online... I don't know why. I know how to punish it. I try to punish it. And nope, they block it.

who you play

 

[Sinatar]

How does one get chosen for the tournament though?

They haven't said yet.

 

[Collateral22]

Really wish I was good enough to stay up in the high 2000s. Sick to the teeth of these spammy Ryu fucks.

 

[Pompadour]

Also noticing a trend with the Karin army using Tenko to get in and it's somehow safe on block online... I don't know why. I know how to punish it. I try to punish it. And nope, they block it.

Are you sure it's Tenko and not Orochi? Orochi is decent at getting in and -2 vs. Tenko's -10 on block so I don't see why they'd bother with Tenko unless they're hoping to catch you not blocking so they can't juggle.

If it is Tenko, just mash whatever Reversal you have if you have one.

 

[vg260]

RQ'ng would be just as prevalent if there were no trophies and just points. People suck.

Do not underestimate people's desire for trophies, whether earned or not. People buy and play through crappy games just for them. It would still happen, but this definitely adds to it.

 

[ShogunDarius]

So has Capcom finally said anything about lost Fight Money, or acknowledged that they know this happened to some people?

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

No there will be an online tournament for that, they aren't using LP's.

Oh I now want to see rage quitting in online tourneys. Maybe then they'll fix if.

 

[Pompadour]

So has Capcom finally said anything about lost Fight Money, or acknowledged that they know this happened to some people?

Capcom has said very little about the game's issues, in general. The only concrete thing is they will eventually patch in a solution for ragequitting. I expect they're going to save all of this for the big March update.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Capcom was stupid for putting trophies for reaching silver and gold league in the game. A lot of players might not ever reach those. That's probably a big reason for the rage quits.
Good example of bad trophy design hurting the online play for a game.

I could see having a trophy for ranking up a Leauge once, but yeah having one for silver and especially gold is stupid. There are some players that don't want to play SF to really improve and they just want to have fun and beat ass. And they will never be able to get that.

I should be able to get it eventually. Closing in on silver leauge now, but it was a dumb choice.

I liked the idea behind achievements / trophies back when they were supposed to be designed around challenges, not elements of a meaningless checklist any Tom, Dick or Harry could accomplish with minimal effort.

Capcom (unsurprisingly) being boneheaded enough to not incorporate a punishment system is the real issue here.

 

[shadow_shogun]

It seems capcom has started dishing out punishments for rage-quitters by deranking and taking a huge chunk from their LP. Sorry if this was brought up earlier in the thread, I just came across it over at GFAQS.

 

[BiggNife]

It seems capcom has started dishing out punishments for rage-quitters by deranking and taking a huge chunk from their LP.

So is Wolfkrone in Bronze now

 

[RapidCancel]

It seems capcom has started dishing out punishments for rage-quitters by deranking and taking a huge chunk from their LP. Sorry if this was brought up earlier in the thread, I just came across it over at GFAQS.

Have Capcom said anything specific yet?

 

[SneakersSO]

I've also been maining Necalli since the betas, and while I'm no fighting game pro, I don't think I'd agree with you here. I'll try to respond just based on what I've been seeing as someone who just reached Silver rank.

His crush counter game is fine, and just because he can't convert each one into a full combo isn't necessarily a negative since he has so many of them. His anti air crush counter is pretty useful, and can be followed up with a sweep if you're within range for decent damage. Plus, even if he's out of range, a crush counter will sometimes allow you to close the gap and get in, which is exactly what you want as a Necalli player. Like I said before, he's got around 5 different crush counter moves, so I'd say that the reason st. hk has so much pushback is because they probably wanted to make each one useful for different things. There's also nothing wrong with some random crush counters just for the raw damage, since the damage will add up with all his CC options.

Isn't Necalli one of the few characters who has 3 frame jabs? I've been getting a lot of milage out of them just by interrupting the opponent, and on counter hit you can get decent damage by going into cr. MP > special.

Necalli's normals are pretty good, so I don't think he's as bad at footsies as you're making him out to be. Knowing your range and throwing out his MP can get you a lot of hits/counter hits that can lead to combos. You can use the stomps to advance on the opponent, and while LK stomp is technically not safe (-4 on block) I think if you get the spacing right it's really hard to punish. MK and HK stomps are safe (-2 and 0 on block respectively), and I've found throwing in a MK stomp after a blocked cr. MK is a pretty good frame trap that can lead into a full BnB combo.

It's not great, but it's situational. If you've got them conditioned for a certain approach, sometimes a divekick can throw them off. It's also not terribly unsafe if you aim for the legs, as you should be doing.

V-Skill is great man, you just have to know when to use it. If someone wants to turtle from full screen, it gives Necalli an option to pressure. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it at long distances, and on hit it gives you enough to time to get a few dashes in to close the gap. It's especially useful against Gief.

Bison is the frametrap/normal king, but I honestly don't consider him too similar to Necalli. They've got different playstyles, and I think Necalli exceeds in areas that Bison doesn't, like general rushdown, he's got more full screen pressure, etc.

Necalli doesn't have that more crush counters than most cast members. He has 4 (including sweep) (Necalli's cc are st.hp, cr.hp, st.hk, cr.hk), which is as much as the majority of the other cast members. Unlike the other cast members though, 2 of his crush counters lead the opponent to an aerial spin state that cannot be followed up on by the major tools in his kit. Compare this to Bison, who also has 4, except all 4 of his crush counters can be followed up on with a regular combo, or compare this to Ken, where two of his crush counters do put the opponent into a non-grounded state, but is actually perfect for Ken's kit, and you see how the aerial spin is specifically designed to not allow Necalli to get full damage off one of his best buttons/2 of his best crush counters (st.hp/cr.hp).

Necalli does have a 3 frame jab. It just has more recovery than most jabs, and it has less range than most jabs too. I've been throwing out cr.mk->mk stomp since beta 2- its been a fantastic frame trap, but once you start playing against higher level players, it does. not. work. Again, great tool against new players or starting players, but intermediate & experts see right through that stuff. Not to mention all the start up cr.mk has to go through to get its active frames out, in comparison to other cr.mk I mean. cr.mp is easily his most versatile normal, but its range isn't anything special, and to get a full conversion on a counter hit, you still need to be super close. ALSO, cr.mk does not give you enough block stun to negate the startup frames on mk.stomp. I have been ROUTINELY jabbed out of mk stomp after cr.mk by opponents who knew what they were doing. Its why I switched to cr.mk->lk stomp, because at least then I am guaranteed to get the chip damage on block and before potentially eating a jab.

The divekick is terrible. It's unsafe at any range. Compare the amount of startup it has in comparison to the other dive kicks in the game, even the ones that do not lead to anything (Rashid), and its easy to see just how terrible it actually is. Its very easily reactable. It's hitbox range is as short as his jumping hp, except you actually get more horizontal coverage with jumping hp. Even if you get a late-hit by nailing a toe, assuming your opponent didn't punish you hard, you're still too far away to get anything meaningful. You'll get a jab, and then the opponent is out of range except for ex.stomp.

Let's not mince words here - Bison pressure DESTROYS Necalli pressure. The reason for this is Bison is generally safe on almost all of his pokes & pressure tools. Pressing buttons on stuff you think should be punishable generally gets you blown up by Bison. And Bison has amazing tools at getting in that are more than just dashing forward. And on top of that, Bison's dash actually has invincibility frames, something that Necalli would thoroughly enjoy. Bison's v-skill & reflect are also far better tools at full-screen than anything Necalli has. Necalli's charge move doesn't even go full-screen unless he ate a fireball on the way there. Bison's aerial stomp is a far better tool at getting in, because at least it has mix-up options instead of being entirely predictable.

Necalli's v-skill would be infinitely better if the hit box on it were 2-3 pixels wider & higher than it is. As of right now, its entirely too easy to whiff things because of how tiny it is. Compare this to Viper's seismo in SF4, and you realize that its purpose as a tool is just too limited here in comparison from what it derived from.

Necalli's DP is just as laughable. No low-profile hitbox for Necalli's DP means you are going to whiff it way more compared to the other cast members. Go to the training room, put the cpu in the corner & set them to block, back away a little bit & do a necalli dp - you will clear their heads every single time. Compare this to the other DP's in the game, and you see how short changed it really is.

 

[Edzi]

Necalli doesn't have that more crush counters than most cast members. He has 4 (including sweep) (Necalli's cc are st.hp, cr.hp, st.hk, cr.hk), which is as much as the majority of the other cast members. Unlike the other cast members though, 2 of his crush counters lead the opponent to an aerial spin state that cannot be followed up on by the major tools in his kit. Compare this to Bison, who also has 4, except all 4 of his crush counters can be followed up on with a regular combo, or compare this to Ken, where two of his crush counters do put the opponent into a non-grounded state, but is actually perfect for Ken's kit, and you see how the aerial spin is specifically designed to not allow Necalli to get full damage off one of his best buttons/2 of his best crush counters (st.hp/cr.hp).

Necalli does have a 3 frame jab. It just has more recovery than most jabs, and it has less range than most jabs too. I've been throwing out cr.mk->mk stomp since beta 2- its been a fantastic frame trap, but once you start playing against higher level players, it does. not. work. Again, great tool against new players or starting players, but intermediate & experts see right through that stuff. Not to mention all the start up cr.mk has to go through to get its active frames out, in comparison to other cr.mk I mean. cr.mp is easily his most versatile normal, but its range isn't anything special, and to get a full conversion on a counter hit, you still need to be super close. ALSO, cr.mk does not give you enough block stun to negate the startup frames on mk.stomp. I have been ROUTINELY jabbed out of mk stomp after cr.mk by opponents who knew what they were doing. Its why I switched to cr.mk->lk stomp, because at least then I am guaranteed to get the chip damage on block and before potentially eating a jab.

The divekick is terrible. It's unsafe at any range. Compare the amount of startup it has in comparison to the other dive kicks in the game, even the ones that do not lead to anything (Rashid), and its easy to see just how terrible it actually is. Its very easily reactable. It's hitbox range is as short as his jumping hp, except you actually get more horizontal coverage with jumping hp. Even if you get a late-hit by nailing a toe, assuming your opponent didn't punish you hard, you're still too far away to get anything meaningful. You'll get a jab, and then the opponent is out of range except for ex.stomp.

Let's not mince words here - Bison pressure DESTROYS Necalli pressure. The reason for this is Bison is generally safe on almost all of his pokes & pressure tools. Pressing buttons on stuff you think should be punishable generally gets you blown up by Bison. And Bison has amazing tools at getting in that are more than just dashing forward. And on top of that, Bison's dash actually has invincibility frames, something that Necalli would thoroughly enjoy. Bison's v-skill & reflect are also far better tools at full-screen than anything Necalli has. Necalli's charge move doesn't even go full-screen unless he ate a fireball on the way there. Bison's aerial stomp is a far better tool at getting in, because at least it has mix-up options instead of being entirely predictable.

Necalli's v-skill would be infinitely better if the hit box on it were 2-3 pixels wider & higher than it is. As of right now, its entirely too easy to whiff things because of how tiny it is. Compare this to Viper's seismo in SF4, and you realize that its purpose as a tool is just too limited here in comparison from what it derived from.

I'm pretty sure he has a fifth CC (his down forward HP overhead).

 

[shadow_shogun]

Have Capcom said anything specific yet?

Haven't heard anything official from Capcom but the Topic creator provided a picture of the Quitter's CFN profile that showed him having 500 LP, he apparently used to have about 6000+ LP.

 

[Edzi]

Haven't heard anything official from Capcom but the Topic creator provided a picture of the Quitter's CFN profile that showed him having 500 LP, he apparently used to have about 6000+ LP.

Whoa, are they retroactively punishing RQs? I wonder if they're looking at the recordings people are sending, or if they can actually see RQs in a players history.