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[mcrommert]

Mark my words: You won't even have the option to play a new (enough) game at low quality on an old Xbox. It will be a seemingly arbitrary cutoff (2018 models can't run it, 2019 models can) put in effect to stimulate upgrades.

So say I buy a launch Xbox and keep it without upgrading for 2-3 years. I buy a online multiplayer game in the 3rd year, would I be screwed against people with the upgrade Xbox?

Listen to what Phil said directly. They are talking about an updated xbox one. Which means what? It will play games that are XBOX ONE games. The comparison to the pc is only partially apt. PC gaming has gotten along with targeting huge amounts of graphics cards. This will be 2 or 3. And even then probably only one or two components will change...gpu and/or cpu. So probably the next will support a slightly higher texture res...like difference between medium and high and perhaps a different frame rate or res

 

[Kezen]

This is the ballsiest move I could ever imagine, I don't know what to think of this yet. Too many ramifications possible.

I wonder what they will do for their list of already released Xbox One exclusives.

 

[SneakersSO]

They are going for the mass casual market that want upgrades every year.

I have to say I don't think it is a complete strategic mistake.

Maybe for the GAF audience yes, it is a mistake, and they will suffer with this audience, but for everyone else I think it remains to be seen.

I think the mass market is more ready for annual console releases, especially from a company like MS who seeks so much to emulate the success of Apple in the hardware market.

I can see it happening. Remains to be seen how effective it will be though.

Yeah, tell me why the mass casual audience would be into buying iterative consoles? See, the average consumer is okay with yearly mobile hardware releases because a phone is far more versatile than a console. The value proposition for a phone is nearly infinitely larger than a box dedicated to playing games. Consoles do not have that kind of valuation.

On top of that, yearly phone releases have subsidization to eat the up front cost of a new phone, bringing it down from $600-$800 to $200 or less. Unless MS is going to go that route, you're telling me consumers are gonna be thrilled with dropping $400+ on new hardware only to have it be obsolete within 12-24 months? Unless the Xbox becomes a full Windows 10 PC, meaning I can get a far larger amount of use out of it than it just being a games machine, then I don't see a casual market ever viewing the value of the Xbox anywhere near as high as a phone that they're willing to adapt to the mobile hardware release cycle.

 

[gamz]

Would be logical if MS actually sold and profited off hardware. They don't. They just want to push windows as a service.

That's not entirely true. They profit on their surface line.

 

[Insane Metal]

Interesting, to say the least.

 

[Gtagentleman]

Why do I get the feeling this will be the last Xbox?

With the moves MS been making lately it just seem like they've given up on consoles and are trying to coast you towards PC.

Yeah I feel the same way.

But Microsoft is a software company at the core so it makes sense.

 

[Zophar]

Bro, you're thinking way too hard about this, as is everyone who is worried that it will fragment the user base etc.

This is Microsoft winding down their console business, leaving the current Xbox One as a Windows 10 machine and the possibility of future slightly upgraded SKUs down the road. Anything else they can squeeze out of the Xbox One now is a bonus.

Precisely. Let's not mince words on it. Would we even be taking about hardware upgrades if the XB1 wasn't a failure? It's why people thinking console gamers are gonna like this are out of their minds. MS isn't doing this for the console space, but instead so they can transition out of the market.

 

[outunderthestars]

So as long as the fps is the same you mean.

Aren't people on PC already running games at different frame rates and playing multiplayer together?

 

[Riddick]

OK, let me make the problem clear because either some of you don't understand it or you're purposely ignoring it. Most developers, especially AAA ones, focus on the newer hardware and how to make their games look best on it.

There's a reason why 4 year old consoles still look relevant compared to PCs (not on par but still preeetty good) even though the hardware is ancient: The developers are focusing on that specific hardware and optimize it to perfection to make it look as good as possible. The specific hardware is the sole focus of these developers.

Yearly versions of a prebuilt PC with the Xbox brand on it will have the same results as in PCs where 4 year old hardware makes games look like ass compared to newer hardware so the biggest most important feature of consoles, the fact that you pay 400$ and there's guaranteed focus on the specific hardware for years, is gone.

So what's left? An inferior to Steam online service that isn't even free? A closed environment that doesn't support mods? It certainly isn't exclusives because you can play those on the PC too.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

So say I buy a launch Xbox and keep it without upgrading for 2-3 years. I buy a online multiplayer game in the 3rd year, would I be screwed against people with the upgrade Xbox?

If you consider a higher framerate a significant advantage, perhaps. But console isn't really the home of competitive multiplayer, and ranked matchmaking means you shouldn't really be hit that hard.

 

[pixellated_man]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing this is the easiest way to discontinue the Xbox brand of consoles altogether and merge it into their Windows platforms.

Had MS released Xbox Two or whatever, and it sold less than estimated, then that damages the brand even more. Hardware refreshes like this will allow MS to refer to the "Xbox Family" and MAUs much easier. There won't need to be major R&D costs for a new piece of hardware because they just have to keep updating components incrementally. It'll allow the Xbox to suffer whatever fate it has infront of it in a way that will be somewhat invisible to the general public, keep hardcore Xbox fans interested (or have them bail out onto the Windows 10 platform where they can play all their XB exclusive games), and so on.

This is a terrible idea from a mass market perspective but that's not what they're aiming for. They're folding Xbox into Windows, and this is kind of a brilliant move in doing it slowly but steady without causing a large amount of waves. It won't sell anything what a Playstation 5 might sell, but that's the point, because by then MS would want to be out of the console game and selling PC boxes at that point, some with the Xbox branding on it.

I always knew XB1 would be Microsoft's last console but the way they're transitioning is kind of brilliant. Well, maybe not from a sales point of view, but in keeping their Xbox brand healthy while trying to attract a new gaming audience for Windows 10? Absolutely.

Hmm. Interesting way of looking at it. This very well could be Microsoft's attempt at exiting the console market gracefully. Never thought of it that way until reading your post.

 

[Daffy Duck]

They are going for the mass casual market that want upgrades every year. Like the phone market.

I have to say I don't think it is a complete strategic mistake.

The only thing that will stop this is not aggressive enough pricing. Lower the price enough to make some of the audience re-buy a console every year, and it's worth it. Say $199 to $299 each year, and the audience buys one every other year or every 3 years? Not a bad move.

Maybe for the GAF audience yes, it is a mistake, and they will suffer with this audience, but for everyone else I think it remains to be seen.

I think the mass market is more ready for annual console releases, especially from a company like MS who seeks so much to emulate the success of Apple in the hardware market.

I can see it happening. Remains to be seen how effective it will be though.

That said do I want Sony or Nintendo to do this? No, I already have a PC.

I don't think the casual market want this at all if I am honest.

As said previously in the thread, this is a withdrawl from the traditional console market by MS.

I can imagine it now, another sony parody video of this is how console games work for us, and boom, job done, MS will destroy the Xbox brand with this when Joe Public gets wind of this, in my eyes it's another soundbite that will turn people off xbox forever.

 

[D4Danger]

So as long as the fps is the same you mean.

not necessarily. the simulation isn't tied to the frame rate in online games but it could impact input latency.

I mean if you were super sensitive you'd get the best console like people get the best pc but it really shouldn't matter as long as it's steady.

 

[geordiemp]

I actually hope Sony do this with Ps5, so that it also plays Ps4 games.

Or I go back to MS.

I am ready for non PC STRONGER consoles.

 

[Dinky Dino]

That's not entirely true. They profit on their surface line.

Xbox would need way better hardware than a surface to run games but be cheap enough for casuals to buy one. So they'd likely break even or sell at a loss. Tablets can get away without a good gpu.

 

[EvilAlPacino]

I would love to this this "upgrade-able" plan.

I'd be all for this and all of the sudden everyone's an expert in what MS has in store for the Xbox brand.

 

[Beefy]

Aren't people on PC already running games at different frame rates and playing multiplayer together?

I have never played a game on a PC (apart from Football Manager) . So have no clue, it's why I was asking.

 

[Breakage]

This is stupid. The main reason I'm a console gamer and not a PC gamer is because consoles are a fixed platform . It's reassuring to know that if I decide to pick up tail-end 7th gen game like GT6 tomorrow, I can just pop it into my 2007 launch PS3 and it will work. This is the fundamental principle that distinguishes consoles from PCs - everyone stays on a level playing field during the entire gen regardless of income or point of entry.

The idea proposed by MS defeats one of the primary reasons why a lot of people do their gaming on a console instead of a PC. You just know developers will start introducing "Xbox One+ ONLY" features into their games compelling people to ditch their old box for fear of being locked out of shit. It will just lead to a fragmented userbase with developers having to worry about several hardware configs when designing games.

I'm happy that I have never invested in Xbox One. It has been nothing but confusing mixed messages from day one. I get the impression that MS never wanted to release an 8th gen challenger in the first place - they aren't even trying to hide that sentiment these days. Xbox doesn't really fit into the new MS vision. Even the Xbox nexus logo looks out of place on their websites.

 

[morikaze]

blah

 

[Beefy]

not necessarily. the simulation isn't tied to the frame rate in online games but it could impact input latency.

I mean if you were super sensitive you'd get the best console like people get the best pc but it really shouldn't matter as long as it's steady.

Thank you for answering.

 

[Caipirinha]

Precisely. Let's not mince words on it. Would we even be taking about hardware upgrades if the XB1 wasn't a failure? It's why people thinking console gamers are gonna like this are out of their minds. MS isn't doing this for the console space, but instead so they can transition out of the market.

Just to be clear that this isn't a "console war" perspective because the Xbox One may well have been more profitable for MS than the PS3 was for Sony during it's first few years, I don't know. It's obviously not a huge flop, but we're talking about what is essentially an office productivity and operating systems company that joined the "take over the living room" craze in the 2000s that never really turned out to be as profitable as expected as people started consuming more on the go. Since then this division has been living on borrowed time, it would have to have shown it could make profits comparable to other areas of Microsoft's company, and it hasn't, so they're winding down.

Sony didn't have the luxury of huge still profitable other areas of it's business so in a way they had little choice but to stick it out in the console business.

It's just a shame to see so many people here taking this seriously and critiquing the idea. It's not a bad idea when you consider this in context, they're leaving the console business and trying to squeeze out what remaining value they can from what is left of their stock and R&D.

 

[Pif]

Isn't this what Nintendo is jumping on with the NX?

Looks like Steam machines are gonna have some company.

 

[Muppet of a Man]

While I like the idea of backward compatible, but I fear forward compatible will be big compromise just like cross platform games, developer will always make game for the lowest spec possible.

This is the reality of what will happen. Stuck in a constant cross-gen shit cycle. Ugh.

 

[blodtann]

yeah I wonder how they will handle the online space if there are different performance profiles.

This is not uncharted territory, we have done this on PCs for the last 20 years. As long as the lower specced hardware is still able to turn the same FPS (but at a different quality level) there will not be much difference.

The worry is mouse vs controller for FPS. So they would have to figure that out. Eg. you can only join lobbies where everyone is using a controller or visa versa.

 

[Asd202]

Whatever you're better of just getting a PC that will last you longer instead of upgrading every year. Also if that's the case why limit yourself to Xbox live which will probably still have a pay wall.

 

[SneakersSO]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing this is the easiest way to discontinue the Xbox brand of consoles altogether and merge it into their Windows platforms.

Had MS released Xbox Two or whatever, and it sold less than estimated, then that damages the brand even more. Hardware refreshes like this will allow MS to refer to the "Xbox Family" and MAUs much easier. There won't need to be major R&D costs for a new piece of hardware because they just have to keep updating components incrementally. It'll allow the Xbox to suffer whatever fate it has infront of it in a way that will be somewhat invisible to the general public, keep hardcore Xbox fans interested (or have them bail out onto the Windows 10 platform where they can play all their XB exclusive games), and so on.

This is a terrible idea from a mass market perspective but that's not what they're aiming for. They're folding Xbox into Windows, and this is kind of a brilliant move in doing it slowly but steady without causing a large amount of waves. It won't sell anything what a Playstation 5 might sell, but that's the point, because by then MS would want to be out of the console game and selling PC boxes at that point, some with the Xbox branding on it.

I always knew XB1 would be Microsoft's last console but the way they're transitioning is kind of brilliant. Well, maybe not from a sales point of view, but in keeping their Xbox brand healthy while trying to attract a new gaming audience for Windows 10? Absolutely.

I'm a dev as well Chubi - the moment I heard this news, the first thought that came to my mind was 'This is MS bowing out gracefully out of the hardware space". Glad that I wasn't the only one who had this thought.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Hence, the hardware generation won't matter anymore. They want us to buy into their ecosystem. Giving more options to access that ecosystem is the big plan here.

If you find the PC more tempting, have at it. If you still want the ease of use that consoles give, have at it.

They'll be one and the same, eventually. That's the point. They'll end up just selling pre-built PC's with the Xbox logo slapped on it running a custom OS on the W10 core.

It'll still be just as 'plug and play' as the current Xbox One. It's basically already a PC except it is locked down, stuck to a console hardware cycle and shipping with a controller in the box.

 

[xxracerxx]

I would love to this this "upgrade-able" plan.

I'd be all for this and all of the sudden everyone's an expert in what MS has in store for the Xbox brand.

New to the internet? All of us are just speculating on this decision. No one is claiming to be experts here.

 

[D4Danger]

Whatever you're better of just getting a PC that will last you longer. Instead of upgrading every year.

that's almost certainly true but there's still a lot of value in a box you plug into your tv that just works.

 

[semiconscious]

Why do I get the feeling this will be the last Xbox?

With the moves MS been making lately it just seem like they've given up on consoles and are trying to coast you towards PC.

& possibly a living room pc at that. which, to my mind, would've always made more sense for ms than a straight-up console...

 

[GhostTrick]

You'd be surprised at what many people in developing countries use let alone 3rd worlders.

Well, scalability is still a thing. and in 5 years, they'll be able to play these games in better conditions. It's the very fact that it's not tied to one configuration that makes the appeal.

 

[Bsigg12]

Whatever you're better of just getting a PC that will last you longer. Instead of upgrading every year.

Why would you upgrade every year if the box you have now will work fine? Unless you wanted the newest one, there wouldn't be a reason to upgrade every year, you know kind of like there's not a reason to upgrade your PC every year unless you want the newest tech.

 

[Dinky Dino]

Whatever you're better of just getting a PC that will last you longer. Instead of upgrading every year.

The xbox would use the same hardware as a pc. So you can likely buy a same spec pc one at a lower price because BULK and have it last you for years before you need to switch out the video card.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

I gotta say though that the thought of MS leaving the console business does not sound good to me. MS isn't directly saying that themselves but I can see why people think this. But it's still kind of a surprise, because it's not like the X1 sales are a abomination or anything.

I quit PC gaming years ago because I had too much issues with it, I did not like always having to pay attention to the latest hardware and what not and that was one of the many reasons consoles attracted me so much. If this new idea is still going to be an Xbox where it's adviseable to buy upgrades every two years if we want to have games performing and looking as good as they can.... I think I can live with that. If this succeeds I can see the competition following suit.

But isn't this going to be a bit of a nightmare for developers? Don't they always build games around the hardware?

 

[recks]

Don't MS have low margins on the hardware? Also 60v30 fps multiplayer would be a nightmare.

 

[Carn82]

The more I think about it, the more I'm realizing this is the easiest way to discontinue the Xbox brand of consoles altogether and merge it into their Windows platforms.

Had MS released Xbox Two or whatever, and it sold less than estimated, then that damages the brand even more. Hardware refreshes like this will allow MS to refer to the "Xbox Family" and MAUs much easier. There won't need to be major R&D costs for a new piece of hardware because they just have to keep updating components incrementally. It'll allow the Xbox to suffer whatever fate it has infront of it in a way that will be somewhat invisible to the general public, keep hardcore Xbox fans interested (or have them bail out onto the Windows 10 platform where they can play all their XB exclusive games), and so on.

This is a terrible idea from a mass market perspective but that's not what they're aiming for. They're folding Xbox into Windows, and this is kind of a brilliant move in doing it slowly but steady without causing a large amount of waves. It won't sell anything what a Playstation 5 might sell, but that's the point, because by then MS would want to be out of the console game and selling PC boxes at that point, some with the Xbox branding on it.

I always knew XB1 would be Microsoft's last console but the way they're transitioning is kind of brilliant. Well, maybe not from a sales point of view, but in keeping their Xbox brand healthy while trying to attract a new gaming audience for Windows 10? Absolutely.

Some good points. As already posted in this thread, those 'steam machine' PC boxes will probably get labeled as 'Xbox Standard/Turbo/Super/Whatever ready/compatibl' to differentiate the specs; with probably a major hardware revision every X-years.

 

[Grief.exe]

This is the ballsiest move I could ever imagine, I don't know what to think of this yet. Too many ramifications possible.

I wonder what they will do for their list of already released Xbox One exclusives.

Maybe at the surface level, but long-term it's a safe bet due to the console market stagnation.

 

[Asd202]

The xbox would use the same hardware as a pc. So you can likely buy a same spec pc one at a lower price because BULK and have it last you for years before you need to switch out the video card.

I think keeping in touch with yearly updates on how it will affect games will be a headache and defeats the purpose of plug and play consoles. If that's what you want just get a PC.

 

[outunderthestars]

Whatever you're better of just getting a PC that will last you longer instead of upgrading every year.

Why would the need to upgrade every year (which isn't necessary) only exist on xbox and not pc?

Also, not really seeing anywhere where these upgrades would be an annual thing.

 

[ironcreed]

Hence, the hardware generation won't matter anymore. They want us to buy into their ecosystem. Giving more options to access that ecosystem is the big plan here.

If you find the PC more tempting, have at it. If you still want the ease of use that consoles give, have at it.

Exactly. And they will not give a shit either way, as you will still be using Windows. It's a win/win, with more options to boot. Plus the consumers get to take all of their games with them from here on out. Hell, Xbox is going to be better off with this sort of model.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

IOS has been doing this for years and nobody cares.

Oh, I think it's a difference if the newest 99 Cent app doesn't run on your 5 year old iPad (which you still can sell for a decent price) or if a $69 game says it cannot be bothered to run on your XBOX unless you upgrade. And yes, people who just bought such a game in a retail store for their kids will definitly care.

 

[cakely]

Wait...let me get this straight...they are going to make more consoles...so that means they are leaving the console market?

Microsoft is talking about making set-top box PCs that run Windows 10, and play apps from the Windows 10 store.

This is a big shift from the three generational consoles that Microsoft has already released. Microsoft will no longer be competing with Nintendo and Sony in the traditional dedicated game console market.

 

[The Cartographer]

I'll stay the fuck away from any consoles like that.

 

[old]

Love it. Smart move. Can't wait for it.

 

[Asd202]

Why would the need to upgrade every year (which isn't necessary) only exist on xbox and not pc?

They'll want to keep people upgrading I think game performance will suffer very fast.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

So say I buy a launch Xbox and keep it without upgrading for 2-3 years. I buy a online multiplayer game in the 3rd year, would I be screwed against people with the upgrade Xbox?

Nah, only if the game runs in a higher resolution and with a higher framerate on the new system. Oh, wait...

 

[NullPointer]

iPhone model for consoles

In their dreams.

 

[xxracerxx]

Microsoft is talking about making set-top box PCs that run Windows 10, and play apps from the Windows 10 store.

This is a big shift from the three generational consoles that Microsoft has already released. Microsoft will no longer be competing with Nintendo and Sony in the traditional dedicated game console market.

Yup, this sounds more like a living room PC that can only play Windows store games (at the moment).

 

[cheesekao]

Well, scalability is still a thing. and in 5 years, they'll be able to play these games in better conditions. It's the very fact that it's not tied to one configuration that makes the appeal.

I realize that but what I was getting at was that that poster says that you will have a better experience playing a game on PC than on console, which is true and false at the same time as it all comes down to how powerful one's rig is.

 

[Haunted]

Literally sounds like the worst of both worlds. Abandoning the few advantages a console platform has without capitalising on the PC's biggest strengths.