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[Cynn]

That's why it's good PR talk. Much better than "we're leaving console business but please buy our xbox anyway".

A console you upgrade is just a PC without the advantages PC has.

Ah ok. So I guess Nintendo left the handheld market with the New 3DS since it's a PC now. "We're leaving the handheld business, please buy our handhelds anyway!" Wut?

Xbox having one or two new static platforms isn't the same a popping open a console and upgrading its parts. Each version of the Xbox will have the same OS and a set hardware configuration. Developers know what the capabilities for the 3DS are and they know what the capabilities of the New 3DS are. The same will be the case for Xbox Consoles one has to imagine.

Theoretical future game performance:

Xbox One: 900p / 60
Xbox One V2: 1080p / 60 (With VR hooks)
Xbox One V3: 4K output. (Likely the final console of that generation)

One disc or download should work on any console just at different output quality. Everyone can play together and I'd very highly doubt any game would require only a higher power X1 to play. People who don't care about graphics and graphic whores can play together in one ecosystem. It might work.

I'm a console guy and when "slim" versions or whatever hit, I usually refresh my consoles. I'd be happy to do a console refresh that has better specs too. I'd love to play Battlefield 5 at 1080p/60 without having to abandon my crew that plays at 720p/60 on X1. And I'm sure Microsoft would love to tout that BF5 runs best on "Xbox" as the PS4 version hits at 900p/60 with no ability to upgrade.
















*Gameplay footage shown on Xbox One V2. Actual graphics on other Xbox devices may vary.

 

[Fat4all]

Well
This is a way of admitting that xbox will never be a global brand and walking away while saving face so I see it as a net positive to shareholders.

Going forward the name Xbox will still be a good brand name to have, but not solely on a games box but more as an ecosystem.

At least that's what I'm interpreting it as.

 

[Maintenance]

Will you need to pay for online on these PC-like boxes?

You know it's coming.

Owners of first gen XB1's will no longer feel like first class gamers.

First gen gamers.

 

[Quazar]

You don't really seem to understand the selling point of a standardized experience. It's one of the primary reasons consoles have lasted as long as they have.

Times change. New strategies (business, corporate, and internationally) form. Innovations happen on hardware and software. Business models get redesigned. Change simply happens. Status quo doesn't mean forever.

 

[Krisprolls]

This sounds to me like MS has pretty much given up on the XBOX and is just attempting to broaden the market for games already in production, I can't see how fragmenting your market with PC like incremental upgrades is going to drive people to your platform. It just sounds very back of a cigarette packet planning.

Unless someone can explain it to me, please?

They give up on Xbox otherwise yeah, it wouldn't make much sense.

They're just retreating to PC market but yes I suspect it's just a way to get out of gaming while minimizing losses.

 

[Loxley]

While I think there's a metric fuck-ton of jumping to conclusions going on this thread, this does leave the future of a traditional Xbox console as we know it up in the air. I'm really interested to see where MS takes the Xbox platform in the next few years given what Spencer has said. Although I will say that it's just a tad presumptuous to take this as some sort of surefire sign that MS are leaving the gaming business altogether down the road. Like, let's just see what they say/officially announce in the next year or two before we start declaring the death of Xbox.

The funny thing is, I was planning on finally picking up an X1 within the next couple of weeks - but now I'm definitely holding off at least until E3 to see what they announce.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

If you guys had to guess, any chance of something about this during E3 and possibly already happening this year? When I read the articles and how Phil Spencer said it, it sounds like it's still early.

 

[MogCakes]

Times change. New strategies (business, corporate, and internationally) form. Innovations happen on hardware and software. Business models get redesigned. Change simply happens. Status quo doesn't mean forever.

Of course not, and my post does not imply that it does. Consoles as we know them will not last. A tiered console model will almost certainly not work out to be that future either. Actually I'm alarmed that people think this tiered model is the wave of the future.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

There are two fundamental problems with this and that is Hardware and Software designed around consoles. There is big reason why there is some much effort put into making the console more versatile than PC's and allowing a lot more to be done over a longer period of time. This helps both the manufacturer of the hardware and the developers of software as they have a static piece of kit for over 5 years.

This allows them to release at least 2 to 3 version of the games on the same hardware and generally making more money the larger the installation base becomes. Also allowing the developer to make games quicker.

I have groups of friends that do buy the latest new console on the market but I also have friends that don't buy consoles until at least 3 or 4 years into their life cycle as they just don't have the money.

If MS think they are going to release a new console every 3 years you will just piss off the guys that don't have the money as they will see us as having an advantage over them. I think most of the people I know that buy new consoles when they come out know that most games in the first two years are pretty much just upgrade of previous gen games. Its only in the 3,4 or 5 year on wards you start to really see the difference.

I just see this really hurting developers and these are the people the MS should not be pushing around as you can see how they are already reacting this generation by putting most indie games on the PS4 first or exclusively.

 

[plan9]

Been a long time coming, I remember speculation about something like this started back in 2001 with original Xbox. By the sound of things Nintendo might be preparing a somewhat similar approach with NX?

 

[Bgamer90]

This sounds to me like MS has pretty much given up on the XBOX and is just attempting to broaden the market for games already in production, I can't see how fragmenting your market with PC like incremental upgrades is going to drive people to your platform. It just sounds very back of a cigarette packet planning.

Unless someone can explain it to me, please?

As I said in a previous post, I think the third party games will all be made under the same "current gen Xbox" base.

The true, bigger difference in gaming performance between the various Xbox models will probably be seen with just the MS exclusives (as well as maybe exclusive OS features).

This would be the smart move with this strategy in my opinion since:

1. It will make gamers on the older and/or cheaper Xbox models feel like they aren't missing out on anything gaming content wise.

2. Third party companies will be happy as they can focus on one version of a game and then have it easily spread across various devices with the Xbox OS (instead of one version for each box/device a la Sega).

3. The reasons to buy the more expensive/newer Xbox models are still there.

So while this would be similar to Sega in terms of various devices, this wouldn't necessarily mean confusing and/or angering consumers and developers like we saw with Sega during the second half of the '90s.

 

[Business]

You know it's coming.

It would surprise me if it isn't yes. But why would I get it instead of a PC then. I assume these things would run W10 and play the same games you can play on a PC W10 machine, optimized for multiple configurations just like PC... What is the advantage I'm missing?

 

[Relique]

I've been saying this was gonna happen since the free windows upgrade news. Microsoft isn't blind, they see the success of steam, they see the success of Apple and Play stores. They want a piece of the pie and the way to get it is to get everyone on board on one OS. First step was offering the free Windows upgrade and the next step is to get games and apps on their store.

I think every game they publish or make from here on out will be on the Windows 10 store. The next Xbox will probably be a skinned Windows 10 box that is backwards compatible with all these titles and will just run all regular PC games after setting tweaks or optimizitation. No need to money hat exclusives when you can just run any PC game on your platform and be backwards compatible with steam titles and most PC games.

Edit: One of the big hurdles for the small form factor PC market is the Windows license, and Microsoft doesn't have to worry about that. They make a medium spec PC in a small sexy box, throws Windows 10 on there, and instantly have an enormous library from day one. If they are smart they will not try to limit users from running steam or other PC games. I know I will be there day 1.

I think Sony got their work cut out for them next gen unless they somehow manage to make it big with something very different than the traditional console gaming we are used to.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

It would surprise me if it isn't yes. But why would I get it instead of a PC then. I assume these things would run W10 and play the same games you can play on a PC W10 machine, optimized for multiple configurations just like PC... What is the advantage I'm missing?

You can start it with a button on your pad. And you don't have to deal with shit like viruses or Steam.

 

[Maintenance]

It would surprise me if it isn't yes. But why would I get it instead of a PC then. I assume these things would run W10 and play the same games you can play on a PC W10 machine, optimized for multiple configurations just like PC... What is the advantage I'm missing?

The thing is, I'm pretty sure they'll try to get Live back on PC too, so people wouldn't be able to run. And if I could bet, they'll do that with a major game, like Halo 6/7. If they bring it back alone it would be suicide, they need to do like Sony did with the paywall for online right after "allowing" used games / offline play.

"Halo 6/7 day one for PC!*"

*You need a Live sub to play online though.

 

[Business]

The thing is, I'm pretty sure they'll try to get Live back on PC too, so people wouldn't be able to run. And if I could bet, they'll do that with a major game, like Halo 6/7. If they bring it back alone it would be suicide.

"Halo 6/7 day one for PC!*"

*You need a Live sub to play online though.

We'll end up playing Steam games on linux.

 

[ZOONAMI]

You don't really seem to understand the selling point of a standardized experience. It's one of the primary reasons consoles have lasted as long as they have.



I talk about it because that's one of the only things keeping consoles relevant. If that goes away the value proposition for buying one goes through the floor.

What is the standardized experience here you are so worried about? Paying for ps plus and xbox live every month?

Games on PC work pretty well across a super wide spectrum of hardware.

The value proposition is the hardware itself, the variety of games available, and the functionality of it's OS/UI, not some artificial standardized performance.

I doubt hardly anyone would say the main reason they bought a console when they're walking out of the store would be, "the standardized experience, man. This experience is gonna be so standardized! I'm totally stoked."

 

[Markoman]

As I said in a previous post, I think the third party games will all be made under the same "current gen Xbox" base.

The true, bigger difference in gaming performance between the various Xbox models will probably be seen with just the MS exclusives (as well as maybe exclusive OS features).

This would be the smart move with this strategy in my opinion since:

1. It will make gamers on the older and/or cheaper Xbox models feel like they aren't missing out on anything gaming content wise.

2. Third party companies will be happy as they can focus on one version of a game and then have it easily spread across various devices with the Xbox OS (instead of one version for each box/device a la Sega).

3. The reasons to buy the more expensive/newer Xbox model is still there.

So while this would be similar to Sega in terms of various devices, this wouldn't necessarily mean confusing and/or angering consumers and developers like we saw with Sega during the second half of the '90s.

This makes even less sense for me personally. Right now, I can't see myself ever buying a MS console again. If this is the future, I'm finally going 100% PC.

3rd party games are seling consoles right now, why should anyone bother with a better running MS exclusive on an upgraded Xbox?

 

[Maintenance]

We'll end up playing Steam games on linux.

If that happens I'll be happy, but I doubt it. The future is looking bleak.

 

[RedSwirl]

Ah ok. So I guess Nintendo left the handheld market with the New 3DS since it's a PC now. "We're leaving the handheld business, please buy our handhelds anyway!" Wut?

Xbox having one or two new static platforms isn't the same a popping open a console and upgrading its parts. Each version of the Xbox will have the same OS and a set hardware configuration. Developers know what the capabilities for the 3DS are and they know what the capabilities of the New 3DS are. The same will be the case for Xbox Consoles one has to imagine.

Theoretical future game performance:

Xbox One: 900p / 60
Xbox One V2: 1080p / 60 (With VR hooks)
Xbox One V3: 4K output. (Likely the final console of that generation)

One disc or download should work on any console just at different output quality. Everyone can play together and I'd very highly doubt any game would require only a higher power X1 to play. People who don't care about graphics and graphic whores can play together in one ecosystem. It might work.

I'm a console guy and when "slim" versions or whatever hit, I usually refresh my consoles. I'd be happy to do a console refresh that has better specs too. I'd love to play Battlefield 5 at 1080p/60 without having to abandon my crew that plays at 720p/60 on X1. And I'm sure Microsoft would love to tout that BF5 runs best on "Xbox" as the PS4 version hits at 900p/60 with no ability to upgrade.
















*Gameplay footage shown on Xbox One V2. Actual graphics on other Xbox devices may vary.

Another thing, Phil said they won't have clean-cut "generations" anymore and that's a pretty big point. If Microsoft does this, there won't be a break-off point where they just move to another architecture and developers suddenly stop supporting all the previous machines in favor of some new brand. It'll just be a gradual upward slope that goes on for the foreseeable future. The iPhone 6s can still probably run most apps that were made for the iPhone 1 in 2008 or 2009. Phil specifically made the comparison to PC where you can still play games from the 90's like DOOM and Quake. There might be clear numbering differences like iPhone 5 and iPhone 6, but they'll still really just be upgrades.

The funny part is, if Sony and Microsoft simply did this exact thing, but only did it every five or six years, it would be the same as a normal console generation, except they'd no longer be starting from zero upon every transition.

 

[captjohnboyd]

I totally get why people would be super pissed about this but speaking for myself, and only myself, I would absolutely get on board. I don't like the idea of spending a grand on a PC (although I prob will be soon anyway lol) so spending $3-$400 every two years or so is an easy alternative for me.

As for the other side of the debate would GAF really be upset as long as it had backwards compatibility? Isn't that basically the same thing as upgrading your computer? Legit question not trying to stir anyone up

 

[Krisprolls]

What is the standardized experience here you are so worried about? Paying for ps plus and xbox live every month?

Games on PC work pretty well across a super wide spectrum of hardware.

The value proposition is the hardware itself and the functionality of it's OS/UI, not some artificial standardized performance.

Some of the best looking games every gen are console exclusives (DriveClub, the order...)

That's because you can optimize for a single closed system. You lose that with upgradable consoles.

Everybody is on even ground too, you'd lose that too.

Console gamers don't want upgrades, they want to be sure they won't have to buy another console for years and still play the latest games in good shape. They want simplicity and conveniency, that's why they chose consoles over PC.

This is PR speak, MS knows all that, they just look for a way out. Pushing PC gaming and W10 store is their next move after consoles, not upgradable consoles which would die very quickly, especially with the Xbox brand power being so low right now. They're not stupid.

 

[timlot]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

 

[Infernostew]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

Just like always online.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Windows Store Only Box? sure why not.

I mean that's pretty much what this will lead to, right?

Essentially a Windows Store Only PC with good controller mapping and integration.

It makes sense on Microsoft's part, but kinda screws Xbone owners. To be fair, something of this nature could be seen coming fairly easily.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Just like always online.

always pay for online yeah

 

[Striek]

As I said in a previous post, I think the third party games will all be made under the same "current gen Xbox" base.

The true difference in gaming performance between the various Xbox models will probably be seen with just the MS exclusives (as well as maybe exclusive OS features).

This would be the smart move with this strategy in my opinion since:

1. It will make gamers on the older and/or cheaper Xbox models feel like they aren't missing out on anything gaming wise.

2. Third party companies will be happy as they can focus on one version of a game and then have it easily spread across various devices (instead of one version for each box a la Sega).

3. The reasons to buy the more expensive/newer Xbox model is still there.

So while this would be similar to Sega in terms of various devices, this wouldn't necessarily mean confusing and/or angering consumers and developers like we saw with Sega during the second half of the '90s.

Some questions for this scenario because I don't see the upsides it has for MS or developers (and the majority of Xbox owners).

1) How does MS benefit from producing upgraded Xbox One* varieties every couple years? These things have R&D costs, marketing costs, console sales aren't high to begin with and they're moving towards competing with the open hardware marketplace of the PC?

Consoles are low-margin products to begin with, remember. They're not phones or high-end PCs.

2) How do developers benefit? Consoles traditionally require tons of optimisation and efficiency, even assuming that the backend APIs are doing the heavy lifting it would still be more work for the same sales potential.

Do you honestly think that Xbox One v.1 consumers wouldn't end up getting left behind with inferior versions of what they otherwise might've had?

3) If MS studios are prioritising the newest Xbox One*, how do older Xbox owners not get left behind?

Modern phones suck at playing games if they're a couple years old. Low-end PC hardware is quickly made obsolete for AAA games. I really think you are being unreasonably optimistic in your view that "oh current Xbox One owners will get the same experience, but if you pay more you get a little bit more, everyone wins!".

 

[Maintenance]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

 

[Krisprolls]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

Sony doesn't need to announce anything, they're just about to be the only competitor left on the console market.

 

[Bgamer90]

This makes even less sense for me personally. Right now, I can't see myself ever buying a MS console again. If this is the future, I'm finally going 100% PC.

And most third party games are on PC and it seems like all future Xbox console exclusives will be too so you'll still be set and tied to the Xbox ecosystem in some way (well, that is if you're interested in those exclusives).

3rd party games are seling consoles right now, why should anyone bother with a better running MS exclusive on an upgraded Xbox?

Because (at least in my example) the upgraded Xbox will play 3rd party games better too. It's like how iOS is. Various apps run on various iOS devices but the better iOS devices run and scale those games better.

It's just that I feel the MS exclusives will have bigger differences between each Xbox model as these are made under Microsoft obviously.

 

[ironcreed]

There will be new systems and it will have games for it that are exclusive to Microsoft all the same for me. I'm okay with this.

 

[Maintenance]

Sony doesn't need to announce anything, they're just about to be the only competitor left on the console market.

 

[n0razi]

I'd love to play Battlefield 5 at 1080p/60 without having to abandon my crew that plays at 720p/60 on X1.

You also get to be held back by the lowest common denominator. If your buddies' X1 can only support 8 player matches or cant handle certain AI or physics processing, then you wont be able to either on the more powerful X1.5 if you want to play together.

 

[Bear Force One]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

Sony Too™

 

[Papacheeks]

Sony doesn't need to announce anything, they're just about to be the only competitor left on the console market.

But if Nintendo can hang in there and make a decent dent with NX then it will be Nintendo and Sony, with xbox being part of the PC platform.

I know I joked about it, but god damn do I want another sega console again.

That would make my dreams come true. Imagine all of sega's games they publish now on their own console with cross-play? Cross play total war series, warhammer, cross play Soni kart racing, shenmue cross game saving.

It really would be blissful

 

[Striek]

Perfection.

 

[Gren]

You also get to be held back by the lowest common denominator. If your buddies' X1 can only support 8 player matches or cant handle certain AI or physics processing, then you wont be able to either on the more powerful X1.5 if you want to play together.

I know nothing of game development (to say nothing of Xbox titles), but that doesn't sound like it'd make sense. People with beast PCs can play people with toasters just fine. Settings are just dialed back accordingly.

If what you describe were to be the case, then it'd be a flaming wreckage just waiting to happen.

 

[Ricky_R]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

 

[Tworak]

Some of the best looking games every gen are console exclusives (DriveClub, the order...)

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Damn, gamers aren't very receptive to change haha. The exotic console hardware era is done. I see no reason why PS5 and XB4 need to be entirely different platforms. This way makes the most sense. Ecosystems are the future.

 

[Maintenance]

I know nothing of game development (to say nothing of Xbox titles), but that doesn't sound like it'd make sense. People with beast PCs can play people with toasters just fine. Settings are just dialed back accordingly.

If what you describe were to be the case, then it'd be a flaming wreckage just waiting to happen.

I think that you might use the Battlefield on consoles as an example: if the gap between the first Xbox system and the latest is too big, then it won't be able to play the same modes.

Example: the player limit on the X360 (with full destruction + vehicles ) vs the same on the X1.

If the gap isn't that big, then they might just lower the settings.

 

[old manatee]

I hobestly thought that Microsoft was going to turn it around with Battletoads.

 

[Wagram]

It's just that I feel the MS exclusives will have bigger differences between each Xbox model as these are made under Microsoft obviously.

Good luck convincing parents to buy their children Xbox upgrades every few years.

 

[Sydle]

But if Nintendo can hang in there and make a decent dent with NX then it will be Nintendo and Sony, with xbox being part of the PC platform.

I know I joked about it, but god damn do I want another sega console again.

That would make my dreams come true. Imagine all of sega's games they publish now on their own console with cross-play? Cross play total war series, warhammer, cross play Soni kart racing, shenmue cross game saving.

It really would be blissful

Why do you want to have to purchase additional hardware? I find no joy whatsoever in having to buy all three consoles to get their games. I am soooooo looking forward to the day when all of these game publishers drop their proprietary hardware.

I really hope Sony gets somewhere with PS Now and releasing new games on it. I'd be pretty happy if all I needed was a Windows desktop/laptop and Sony TV to play Steam, Xbox, and Playstation games.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Pretty much. MS are finally doing what MANY console gamers have been asking them for, for quite awhile. Who the hell wants to wait 8+ years for new hardware. This opens up more software and hardware capabilities and will lead to new adoptions in tech much quicker. I just wonder how long until we'll hear something.

 

[Crayon]

That's a smooth ass gif.

Not particularly funny or anything. But smooth. Lots of frames.

 

[Bgamer90]

Some questions for this scenario because I don't see the upsides it has for MS or developers (and the majority of Xbox owners).

1) How does MS benefit from producing upgraded Xbox One* varieties every couple years? These things have R&D costs, marketing costs, console sales aren't high to begin with and they're moving towards competing with the open hardware marketplace of the PC?

Well, what do you mean by "every couple years"? 2 years or less would definitely be ridiculous but I don't see what's impossible with a new model every 3-4.

2) How do developers benefit? Consoles traditionally require tons of optimisation and efficiency, even assuming that the backend APIs are doing the heavy lifting it would still be more work for the same sales potential.

I think it's obvious that the future Xboxes will be nothing more than locked down PCs. If MS actually start this plan, then what we will see across the models will be no different than a PC game running acceptably on one PC vs. the same game running better on a more powerful PC.

Do you honestly think that Xbox One v.1 consumers wouldn't end up getting left behind with inferior versions of what they otherwise might've had?

They obviously will but if they will be completely left behind after 6-8 years with no new game support then how would this be much different to the current console model (i.e.: a new gaming gen every 6-8 years)?

3) If MS studios are prioritising the newest Xbox One*, how do older Xbox owners not get left behind?

Because they will get the games too. It's like what's happening now. Xbox One gamers aren't being left behind due to Xbox exclusives going to Windows 10 too. The games will still be released on Xbox One and will (well, hopefully) still be impressive for their time.

Modern phones suck at playing. Low-end PC hardware is quickly made obsolete for AAA games. I really think you are being unreasonably optimistic in your view that "oh current Xbox One owners will get the same experience, but if you pay more you get a little bit more, everyone wins!".

But again, how is this much different with what we are seeing now with console and PC?

Console gamers are playing 3rd party games that are also on PC -- games that run and look better on PC. Yet there is (obviously) many people who still enjoy playing on PS4 and Xbox One. Hence, "everybody wins" since we are all playing games that we like/enjoy. PC gamers get hyped for third party open world games just like console gamers do (for example).

 

[Kaako]

I hobestly thought that Microsoft was going to turn it around with Battletoads.

I'm sorry. But there's still hope for Battletoads since MS nailed it with that Young Conker demo reveal!

 

[Papacheeks]

Why do you want to have to purchase additional hardware? I find no joy whatsoever in having to buy all three consoles to get their games. I am soooooo looking forward to the day when all of these game publishers drop their proprietary hardware.

I really hope Sony gets somewhere with PS Now and releasing new games on it. I'd be pretty happy if all I needed was a Windows desktop/laptop and Sony TV to play Steam, Xbox, and Playstation games.

It's the ecosystem, controller, and the fact in how the game was developed specifically for a specific configuration to utilize something other than PC hardware.

You would not have been able to experience the Wii on PC without Nintendo's hardware.

If that is your stance stay on pc then. Console games are not going anywhere for some platform holders, and even so seems SOny is fine having their games on both PC and ps4 with crossplay.

 

[cakely]

A lot shook warriors in this thread. Sony will probably announce they are doing something similar in a few years. Everything will be ok guys.

There's also more than a little Sony Too™ in this thread.