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[Shpeshal Nick]

I think MS is in for a rude awakening if they think Casuals will accept multiple SKUs each with different hardware. I foresee a lot of confused parents and pissed off kids come Holiday season.

This is why I think my proposal would work.

So all games would be the PC port with selectable options and everything and the game would auto detect your highest possible setting based on the parts in your console.

Casuals can continue to do what they do now, buy the console and play games.

Hardcore unhappy with "standard settings" can choose to upgrade the specific upgradeable parts within the box and the game automatically detects and sets the game accordingly to the higher specs.

Microsoft gets to release a cheap box that runs games at the bare minimum standard and let's the hardcore gamer foot the bill for more.

It's a win/win all round.

 

[Uno Venova]

Ok you misread.

There's only one Xbox. A standard box. But it's built to be easily opened (like the PS4 with its HDD) and CERTAIN internal parts are built to be removeable.

So high end users can choose to buy the Official Microsoft high end parts to replace the standard ones inside their box to play at higher res/frames. It's really not very complicated man.

So things like the CPU and GPU will be removable?

 

[Bear Force One]

This is going to be hilarious.

 

[bananafactory]

This is why I think my proposal would work.

So all games would be the PC port with selectable options and everything and the game would auto detect your highest possible setting based on the parts in your console.

Casuals can continue to do what they do now, buy the console and play games.

Hardcore unhappy with "standard settings" can choose to upgrade the specific upgradeable parts within the box and the game automatically detects and sets the game accordingly to the higher specs.

Microsoft gets to release a cheap box that runs games at the bare minimum standard and let's the hardcore gamer foot the bill for more.

It's a win/win all round.

You need to get developers to not only build for this "automatic detection", but also properly optimize the game for each variation of possible Xbox configuration ? When many games aren't even properly optimized for one configuration? Good luck

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

So things like the CPU and GPU will be removable?

Yup.

 

[Fat4all]

This is why I think my proposal would work.

So all games would be the PC port with selectable options and everything and the game would auto detect your highest possible setting based on the parts in your console.

Casuals can continue to do what they do now, buy the console and play games.

Hardcore unhappy with "standard settings" can choose to upgrade the specific upgradeable parts within the box and the game automatically detects and sets the game accordingly to the higher specs.

Microsoft gets to release a cheap box that runs games at the bare minimum standard and let's the hardcore gamer foot the bill for more.

It's a win/win all round.

Would MS enforce compatibility on third parties so that their games will have to work on both the common and upgraded Xbox Ones?

 

[blame space]

shit is gonna get so confusing for consumers if they really do this and have segmented game releases.

 

[Giriath_89]

You also get to be held back by the lowest common denominator. If your buddies' X1 can only support 8 player matches or cant handle certain AI or physics processing, then you wont be able to either on the more powerful X1.5 if you want to play together.

Not to mention players on their XB V.3 will see you across the map on their 4K display and use their fancy mouse/pad to line up a headshot in buttery smooth 120Hz. You won't know what hit ya, because your shitty XB V.1 don't support kill cam. Would you like to try again? That's $0.99 you poor bastard.

 

[old manatee]

I heard that Microsoft is going to bring back HDDVD. They're getting the whole band back together!

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Would MS enforce compatibility on third parties so that their games will have to work on both the common and upgraded Xbox Ones?

It would theoretically be exactly like how PC works now. As a matter of fact, ideally, it would BE the PC version releasing on the console.

 

[Crayon]

I heard that Microsoft is going to bring back HDDVD. They're getting the whole band back together!

okay you're on a roll.

 

[sense]

Well, what do you mean by "every couple years"? 2 years or less would definitely be ridiculous but I don't see what's impossible with a new model every 3-4.



I think it's obvious that the future Xboxes will be nothing more than locked down PCs. If MS actually start this plan, then what we will see across the models will be no different than a PC game running acceptably on one PC vs. the same game running better on a more powerful PC.



They obviously will but if they will be completely left behind after 6-8 years with no new game support then how would this be much different to the current console model (i.e.: a new gaming gen every 6-8 years)?



Because they will get the games too. It's like what's happening now. Xbox One gamers aren't being left behind due to Xbox exclusives going to Windows 10 too. The games will still be released on Xbox One and will (well, hopefully) still be impressive for their time.



But again, how is this much different with what we are seeing now with console and PC?

Console gamers are playing 3rd party games that are also on PC -- games that run and look better on PC. Yet there is (obviously) many people who still enjoy playing on PS4 and Xbox One. Hence, "everybody wins" since we are all playing games that we like/enjoy. PC gamers get hyped for third party open world games just like console gamers do (for example).

Lol this guy. I remember recently having a conversation with you regarding a premium ps4 that can play the games better and you were against the idea and saying things like how it would piss off the current user base and the people that bought one the past holiday etc.... Now all of a sudden it is ok since ms might do it. I am sure you will have some explanation to say you didn't mean exactly what you said or some loophole so I probably shouldn't bother digging up the post. Maybe when I get home from work and bored

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Makes sense to me. If we want to spend 1000 to get a game looking better would be nice. They can keep a 199 version and devs can try and really push the elite hardware.

I feel it would basically just be the pc version though.

Would be nice to have the option to upgrade the ps4 too.

Imagine, upgraded address and frames in uncharted with just more everything. And then they still have the version we know today

Could you imagine gears, uncharted, gran Turisomo, god of war and halo on closed boxes with i7s, 16gb of ram. Made specifically for that hardware


Maybe a bit of a nightmare got development and scaling to multiple configurations

So I'd suggest for thier dev kits to be designed to take down texture quality, frames very friendly with scalability so they can focus on maximizing the top.

 

[Crayon]

It would theoretically be exactly like how PC works now. As a matter of fact, ideally, it would BE the PC version releasing on the console.

Calling the uwa version "the pc version" is getting a little murky at this point.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

I heard that Microsoft is going to bring back HDDVD. They're getting the whole band back together!

 

[family_guy]

You need to get developers to not only build for this "automatic detection", but also properly optimize the game for each variation of possible Xbox configuration ? When many games aren't even properly optimized for one configuration? Good luck

It's not like PC developers test on every graphics card out there. They for the most part just build a scalable application.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

This is way more complicated than a new SKU releasing every 2-3 years. Swappable HDDs sure, GPUs ain't gonna happen especially because it'll be a soldered apu, not a discrete GPU.

They could have a port for an external unit though, like the surface book has a gpu in the detachable keyboard.

 

[Griss]

Yup.

Wait, is this what people expect?

I'm thinking there'll be a new Xbox every two years, like iPhone 6 to 6s to 7 etc, just over longer periods of time.

There's no way they're going to let consumers confuse the hell out of themselves otherwise.

 

[Maintenance]

They're getting the whole band back together!

Content Experience is back.

 

[bananafactory]

It's not like PC developers test on every graphics card out there. They for the most part just build a scalable application.

It's still going to be extra work and extra testing, regardless. With how much crunch time there is already on modern games I struggle to see this going over well

Wait, is this what people expect?

I'm thinking there'll be a new Xbox every two years, like iPhone 6 to 6s to 7 etc, just over longer periods of time.

There's no way they're going to let consumers confuse the hell out of themselves otherwise.

This is far more likely. 3DS/New 3DS situation

 

[Zedox]

I remember when people said Microsoft was afraid Sony would use its dominance to turn PlayStation into a full-blown closed computer for your living room, I think that was a misjudgment of what each company has been after. Microsoft was always after making things that run software, Sony was always after making home media players, and Nintendo was always after making toys.

That said, I still don't see how this constitutes an exit from consoles.
From what I can tell:

--There will still be Xbox consoles.
--There will still be Xbox games.
--Xbox will still be a closed, plug & play system.

If what I'm reading is right and Microsoft isn't opening up the Xbox, then using an Xbox One will still be no more complicated than it is now. You'll still just hook it up, turn it on, download some updates, and play games. The only difference is you'll eventually have a few more options for what kind of Xbox One you want to get, and it technically won't have any more exclusives compared to PC. That's still a huge difference from PC. You still won't have to worry about drivers, graphics settings, or the difference between AMD processors and Nvidia processors. It's just that instead of choosing one box (or between two if you count the PS4), you might reach a point where you have three or four to choose from with slight differences.

People who use phones and don't know shit about console games deal with this just fine. They just pick a model that works for them. I think in the end this move with Xbox will only piss off some of the most enthusiast console gamers who actually give a shit about framerate and resolution. Everyone else buying Xbox will just... pick the model that works for them and be fine with that.

*shakes hand* You get it.

That unwarranted doom and gloom.

When Microsoft announces Xbox Two what will people here be saying?

Oh but it's so warranted because gaf is in their feelings. MS is shaking up how gaming is being percieved and they don't like it. I'm glad that they're changing it up.

I really find it funny that people understand iOS, iPhone and their upgrade strategy and how developers can make apps for all of those configurations through generations but MS does it with the console and there's so much fear that it's gonna fuck up for developers (granted they've been doing this on PC for DECADES, older than some gaffers) and people are going to be left behind and such. This is just a hilarious thread.

Bgamer90...I see that you're back again trying to put some sense into people...but at least there's a good number of people who see the benefits as well instead of a handful of us. I'm so ready for this year's GDC/E3/Build conferences. MS may not even talk about the new Xbox One model until their hardware refresh conference. That would be something.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Makes sense to me. If we want to spend 1000 to get a game looking better would be nice. They can keep a 199 version and devs can try and really push the elite hardware.

I feel it would basically just be the pc version though.

Would be nice to have the option to upgrade the ps4 too.

Imagine, upgraded address and frames in uncharted with just more everything. And then they still have the version we know today

Could you imagine gears, uncharted, gran Turisomo, god of war and halo on closed boxes with i7s, 16gb of ram. Made specifically for that hardware


Maybe a bit of a nightmare got development and scaling to multiple configurations

So I'd suggest for thier dev kits to be designed to take down texture quality, frames very friendly with scalability so they can focus on maximizing the top.

i7s costs hundreds of dollars. If you're going to buy a console that's over $500, why wouldn't you just build a PC?

PC gamers are making out like bandits this gen. You have a really nice selection of "exclusives" from both platforms. You can play SFV, Killer Instinct, Gears 4, Dragon Quest Heroes, etc on the same machine built to your own specifications. What a time to be alive.

 

[Uno Venova]

Yup.

Damn..

This is going to be hilarious.

Yeah this is really the only conclusion I'm arriving at here. Especially with their past performance in messaging, and launching a new product.

 

[FC Bayern]

GBC, PSP2000, DSi & n3DS revisions have all done it to some small extent.

Those are revisions. Quotes from OP sounds like the N64 expansion pack and 32X (upgrades to a system that wont function without it).

Also there was a big enough jump between the DS/3DS, on the otherhand, the DSi and greater extent n3DS early adopters weren't happy when they found out how little support those systems were getting and how short their lifespans were.

 

[MogCakes]

Frankly, the arguments doesn't make any sense. Like at all.

You don't see how introducing a tier model changes the perception of what exactly a console is?

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

You need to get developers to not only build for this "automatic detection", but also properly optimize the game for each variation of possible Xbox configuration ? When many games aren't even properly optimized for one configuration? Good luck

Huh? So how are PC games made now? Aren't they scale able? Can't they detect your PC hardware? So nothing changes. If anything, their lives get easier because they're now only making 2 versions instead of 3.

Casual gamer still buys basic box runs all games
Hardcore gamer still buys basic box, can CHOOSE to buy better parts to run games better
Developers now only make 2 versions. Xbox 4/PC and PS5

I'm failing to see how this isn't a pretty cool proposition.

 

[Striek]

It's not like PC developers test on every graphics card out there. They for the most part just build a scalable application.

Its not like PC games have recommended specs of a 7850 (PS4 equivalent) or even less (XB1) either.

The recommended specs today are a literal order of magnitude higher than consoles. You can brute force some level of scalability on PC. You can't on console.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

i7s costs hundreds of dollars. If you're going to buy a console that's over $500, why wouldn't you just build a PC?

PC gamers are making out like bandits this gen. You have a really nice selection of "exclusives" from both platforms. You can play SFV, Killer Instinct, Gears 4, Dragon Quest Heroes, etc on the same machine built to your own specifications. What a time to be alive.

Because pc wouldn't play those games I mentioned. At atleast in a Sony box.

And can still have a pc but I don't think games are often maximized for top end spec anyways. Mostly look the same with higher resolution or frames.

Would be nice to have a 3 spec system and have a developer create for the top end and have the system cut back to run the game.

Needs to work well though so that the less optimization the better

 

[orochi91]

Will each Xbox refresh cost the same as a new console?

For instance, XB1 launched at $499.

If they do yearly launches/refreshes, won't the new ones likely cost ~$500 every time as well, similar to smartphones?

 

[FairXchange]

I've already got a powerful PC that I upgrade as needed. I don't think I'll be upgrading my Xbox if that's the route they decide to go.

 

[Fat4all]

There's a lot of companies that mess up their PC ports, the version they make for the upgraded Xbox could possibly be effected if the PC version is that version, as it needs to be scaleable to the not-premium Xbox, ya? The developers would have to make the game work on the regular, premium and most of the PC specs.

This just seems more complicated for consumers and developers than just releasing upgraded systems more often.

 

[Giriath_89]

I think we can at least all agree that Interesting™ times are ahead.

 

[bananafactory]

Huh? So how are PC games made now? Aren't they scale able? Can't they detect your PC hardware? So nothing changes. If anything, their lives get easier because they're now only making 2 versions instead of 3.

Casual gamer still buys basic box runs all games
Hardcore gamer still buys basic box, can CHOOSE to buy better parts to run games better
Developers now only make 2 versions. Xbox 4/PC and PS5

I'm failing to see how this isn't a pretty cool proposition.

Even if they managed scaling on the console side. The hardcore gamer spending 1000 dollars to "build" a system is more often than not going to build a PC instead of an Xbox, especially since all their first party titles seem to be coming to both. I just don't see a market for this, that's all. If you do then we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[jelly]

I can't imagine them doing modular upgrades beyond a hard drive. He surely means just releasing a better spec machine. Remember how laughably extortionate 360 hard drives were from Microsoft, no thanks.

Time to introduce 'Xbox Infinity' or just 'Xbox' would be nice sometime in the future.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Hardly any one primarily uses their smart phone for making phone calls, so makes sense, but I'd say a good percentage of people would still mention making phone calls as one of the main reason why they have their phones.

Like games "just work."

*shakes hand* You get it.



Oh but it's so warranted because gaf is in their feelings. MS is shaking up how gaming is being percieved and they don't like it. I'm glad that they're changing it up.

I really find it funny that people understand iOS, iPhone and their upgrade strategy and how developers can make apps for all of those configurations through generations but MS does it with the console and there's so much fear that it's gonna fuck up for developers (granted they've been doing this on PC for DECADES, older than some gaffers) and people are going to be left behind and such. This is just a hilarious thread.

Bgamer90...I see that you're back again trying to put some sense into people...but at least there's a good number of people who see the benefits as well instead of a handful of us. I'm so ready for this year's GDC/E3/Build conferences. MS may not even talk about the new Xbox One model until their hardware refresh conference. That would be something.

Microsoft already attempted to shake up Blu-ray game ownership this generation and a majority fought back on that because they didn't like it.

I know full well how unpredictable iOS game compatibility and performance is with outdated hardware.

 

[old manatee]

There is going to be a ton of space in Toys R Us for Amiibo now.

 

[thunder_snail]

Will MS allow openGL or Vulkan games on the platform? Or will it be DX only?

 

[QaaQer]

I know full well how unpredictable iOS game compatibility and performance is with outdated hardware.

Try running 2016 software on a 2012 Android phone, lol.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Wait, is this what people expect?

I'm thinking there'll be a new Xbox every two years, like iPhone 6 to 6s to 7 etc, just over longer periods of time.

There's no way they're going to let consumers confuse the hell out of themselves otherwise.

Huh? A new console every 2-3 years is far more confusing.

Under my proposal, the casual customer never has to replace their box. Their box will run EVERY game for the life of the console until the NEXT Xbox comes out.

Only the hardcore gamer replaces parts within the box to get the better experience.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

You don't see how introducing a tier model changes the perception of what exactly a console is?

Only for those that do not know the history of the consoles who have become before.
This here, is a rerun of Xbox and Xbox 360 rhetoric. Same arguments, different goal posts.

TBF, it might be a complete disaster, but it is for certain than it being a scale able solution can work well. It works well for a lot of android/ios games. It works well for a lot of PC gaming.
Right now it sounds really interesting to me, and I am intrigued.

 

[Zedox]

Like games "just work."


Microsoft already attempted to shake up Blu-ray game ownership this generation and a majority fought back on that because they didn't like it.

I know full well how unpredictable iOS game compatibility and performance is with outdated hardware.

And how long does it take for that hardware to be outdated? We don't know the cadence that they are doing anything, we don't know how variable the hardware will be. We don't know anything but that they are looking at a future in which you can upgrade your hardware and the developers are just making the game based off of UWP and DX12 frameworks. The concept of upgrading your hardware maybe ever 4 years (I would think every 2 years would be good in my opinion) isn't bad...again in my opinion.

EDIT:

Try running 2016 software on a 2012 Android phone, lol.

Android? LMFAO. Seeing I can run 2016 software on my Lumia 920 fine...shit, I upgraded it to Windows 10 mobile, a phone that came out 2012 because those people know how to make a OS...compartive to how Android is just fucked up with fragmentation comparatively to iOS/WP (even tho WP is bleh in the apps department). I wouldn't call that a 1 to 1 comparison. I would use an iPhone as a better example (as he did).

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Even if they managed scaling on the console side. The hardcore gamer spending 1000 dollars to "build" a system is more often than not going to build a PC instead of an Xbox, especially since all their first party titles seem to be coming to both. I just don't see a market for this, that's all. If you do then we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'd wager the pricing of those parts wouldn't drive the cost up to PC levels. Otherwise what's the point.

 

[ZOONAMI]

So things like the CPU and GPU will be removable?

Yup.

Nope. Last I checked MS doesn't make GPUs or CPUs. Would make zero sense from a hardware profit perspective as all they'd get would be some kind of cut from AMD from selling their APUs. It would just be a new PC SKU every 2-3 years like the surface line but in the small form factor desktop / living room space. It's not that frightening. It's the natural evolution of consoles given the advances in Windows OS and it being usable from the couch. There would certainly be an Xbox mode for an even better UX from the couch.

Those thinking discrete CPUs and GPUs - that makes zero sense as APUs make a lot more sense for the form factor, and Microsoft doesn't make APUs. They make software and computers last I checked.

 

[RedSwirl]

Some of the best looking games every gen are console exclusives (DriveClub, the order...)

That's because you can optimize for a single closed system. You lose that with upgradable consoles.

When console developers optimize those games, the optimization advantages come from the console's unique architecture and development environment. The upgraded Xbox Ones will have the exact same architecture and development environment, but with some of the numbers bumped up. Exclusive games could still have that advantage (however much of it remains due to the move to x86).

From the PCGamer article:


TL;DR Microsoft has no fucking idea what pc gaming is about.

Agreed.

PC gaming is generally about one thing: customization. Console gaming is about stability. You'd still have that with incremental upgrades, but with a few more options.

So things like the CPU and GPU will be removable?

Wait what the fuck? So Microsoft IS going to open up the hardware (a bit)? If that's true then some of these PC comparisons people are making are right. You might as well just buy an Alienware Alpha with Windows 10 on it. I almost guarantee Microsoft wouldn't let you switch out the power supply. People have tried the "snap on" solution for actual PC upgrades before, it hasn't worked. The smartphone-style upgrade system makes a lot more sense for mass market consumer electronics.

 

[Bsigg12]

Will MS allow openGL or Vulkan games on the platform? Or will it be DX only?

DX12 only, hence there push to have any game they're publishing on PC run exclusively on Windows 10 and only be available from the Windows Store.

 

[bananafactory]

I'd wager the pricing of those parts wouldn't drive the cost up to PC levels. Otherwise what's the point.

Thats what im saying. Look at what official Xbox hard drives costed, it was ridiculous. If you want to swap in a modern GPU on an X1 you are looking at a $500 add on to a $350 system.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Like games "just work."


Microsoft already attempted to shake up Blu-ray game ownership this generation and a majority fought back on that because they didn't like it.

I know full well how unpredictable iOS game compatibility and performance is with outdated hardware.

Games work on PC, and better than console versions with better hardware, so...

 

[vcc]

It's not like PC developers test on every graphics card out there. They for the most part just build a scalable application.

Often badly. The big PC-centric studios do plenty of testing but many don't have the budget for that so they push it out and let community beta test (XCOM, Skyrim, Fallout).

 

[ZOONAMI]

MS doesn't make PC parts guys.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Nope. Last I checked MS doesn't make GPUs or CPUs. Would make zero sense from a hardware profit perspective as all they'd get would be some kind of cut from AMD from selling their APUs. It would just be a new PC SKU every 2-3 years like the surface line but in the small form factor desktop / living room space. It's not that frightening. It's the natural evolution of consoles given the advances in Windows OS and it being usable from the couch. There would certainly be an Xbox mode for an even better UX from the couch.

Those thinking discrete CPUs and GPUs - that makes zero sense as APUs make a lot more sense for the form factor, and Microsoft doesn't make APUs. They make software and computers last I checked.

You're getting too deep this early in the game.

Whether it's an APU or not, there could still be an upgraded version made by the manufacturer that customers can buy for their box. It's not like MS makes all the accessories for their consoles right now. They outsource most of it.

This would be the same.