forgeforsaken
Member
You have to compare it other movie trailers. Look at Pixels trailers as say a comparison.
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Ghostbusters (2016) Trailer #1 (Feig, Wiig, McCarthy, McKinnon, Jones)
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You have to compare it other movie trailers. Look at Pixels trailers as say a comparison.
excelsiorlef
Member
That's because it was a 50s Ambulance.
She's...nice.
alfredofroylan
Member
That's a bad example. one is a well known franchise and the other is a thing that most people have forgotten after a few days, of course Ghostbusters is getting more attention.
It's both. That model functioned both as an ambulance and a hearse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_car
stufte
Member
I think I'd compare it to something more similar. The Force Awakens had a similar group of people who disliked it merely because it starred a woman and a black man. The result on youtube?
upvotes: 652,035 downvotes: 18,427
Now sure, every single one of those downvotes could be from racists and misogynists. But is it likely? Or maybe people are hugely dynamic in the reasons they don't like something and you're living in a bubble and think in terms of the internet and the culture that exists here.
If it were truly as good as you guys think it is, and there is a section of the population that are just hating it because of sexism, I'd expect it to look much more like the numbers for Star Wars.
excelsiorlef
Member
It still has over 4 times the number of upvotes.
radios shipping overview
Member
That model served as both hearse and ambulance. The 80s-looking hearse isn't something we recognize as an ambulance anymore.
PanicFreak
Member
I'll watch it but it looks like the story will hit the same beats as the original :-/
excelsiorlef
Member
Doctor Ironic
Member
I have terrible news for you: you may never see something that "looks like the numbers for Star Wars" again in your life.
stufte
Member
I'm talking proportionately.
excelsiorlef
Member
Next to no trailer period has the level of dislikes GB 2016 has and this level has been consistent through out any GB 2016 video posted
There's literally a video by some idiot MRA called SJWs react to Ghostbusters that already has 2k likes.
stufte
Member
What other beloved franchises have been rebooted recently? Star Wars is the last one in recent memory. There's a reason for the massive dislike, but it's mostly because it's disappointing as hell.
There is absolutely nothing "consistent" at all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYnSjERs-oU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXMHSgp6aUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAKAe3-IM38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_QIhDKTZGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMLm6utNvOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oo3eDgblX8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXP1-RQA_h4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUhMhVrK844
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLTGCIB-8qo
I saw that. People like/dislike things that confirm their biases all the time, but if there were some sort of conspiracy, I'd expect that to have a WHOLE lot more likes than it does. I'm not sure this is exactly shocking news.
Barrage
Member
Here's something i've been pondering lately...could some of the GB Backlash be due to them not casting a squad of conventionally attractive women?
Don't get me wrong-there was an IMMEDIATE and forceful backlash when the all-female cast was announced. But I do remember there being more optimism when the cast was rumored to include Emma Stone and Anna Kendrick. Even Murray's dream casting (Wiig/McCarthy/Stone/Cardinelli) seemed to get more of a positive reaction.
But once Jones was added, it seemed the knives came out. And while everone's reasoning has claimed to be "this person's funny, this person's not"...it just seemed like the reaction has gotten uglier and uglier.
This is of course a hypothetical, but...if this team was four young, pretty white girls, do you think there would be any difference in the current response?
Don't get me wrong-there was an IMMEDIATE and forceful backlash when the all-female cast was announced. But I do remember there being more optimism when the cast was rumored to include Emma Stone and Anna Kendrick. Even Murray's dream casting (Wiig/McCarthy/Stone/Cardinelli) seemed to get more of a positive reaction.
But once Jones was added, it seemed the knives came out. And while everone's reasoning has claimed to be "this person's funny, this person's not"...it just seemed like the reaction has gotten uglier and uglier.
This is of course a hypothetical, but...if this team was four young, pretty white girls, do you think there would be any difference in the current response?
excelsiorlef
Member
Was this supposed to prove your point. None of those are the official release and btw look at them they're all more likes than dislikes.
Contrast to this the official teaser and would you look at that the dislike ratio is once again almost twice the size.
https://youtu.be/Zen753JD5k
Which btw is the same ratio as the official trailer.
It does have 100k likes you know.
<3 
stufte
Member
You just said it was consistent across every GB16 videos. Either way, I've pointed out several examples which you've ignored so I'm clearly not going to convince you that you're probably wrong. So enjoy.
excelsiorlef
Member
As in the official videos man.
Jesus.
The reality the sexist backash against this has been huge. Feig even had to literally comment on it a million times.
The comments section on this trailer is a bigger cesspool than usual and that also has hit the news, people are noticing it enough to write about it again and again.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
To repeat, Stufte:
What about the last two-to-three years would cause you to believe this scenario you're challenging is in any way outlandish? How could you possibly come to that conclusion if you're paying even the slightest bit of attention?
Are you just not paying attention to the mobilization of anti-feminist sentiment? Is this like when people would enter gamergate threads and shrug like "I don't even know what a gamergate is, this is the first I've heard of it!"
How out-of-bounds is the notion that a disproportionate number of the dislikes on the video are coming from a concerted effort loosely organized by a community of misogynists online?
Look at the last two-to-three years of discourse in regards to the mere concept of feminism-in-action before you answer.
Would this video still have dislikes? Of course it would. Would they be this numerous? Doubtful. Even the shittiest trailers don't rack up thumbs down to that proportional level. Is Ghostbusters as a property so beloved that a shitty trailer alone would account for that disproportionate response? No, it isn't.
What's left, then? Especially considering the context of the last two-to-three years?
What about the last two-to-three years would cause you to believe this scenario you're challenging is in any way outlandish? How could you possibly come to that conclusion if you're paying even the slightest bit of attention?
Are you just not paying attention to the mobilization of anti-feminist sentiment? Is this like when people would enter gamergate threads and shrug like "I don't even know what a gamergate is, this is the first I've heard of it!"
How out-of-bounds is the notion that a disproportionate number of the dislikes on the video are coming from a concerted effort loosely organized by a community of misogynists online?
Look at the last two-to-three years of discourse in regards to the mere concept of feminism-in-action before you answer.
Would this video still have dislikes? Of course it would. Would they be this numerous? Doubtful. Even the shittiest trailers don't rack up thumbs down to that proportional level. Is Ghostbusters as a property so beloved that a shitty trailer alone would account for that disproportionate response? No, it isn't.
What's left, then? Especially considering the context of the last two-to-three years?
stufte
Member
Then why are the recuts of the official video getting so many more likes than dislikes? BECAUSE IT'S A MUCH BETTER TRAILER. That also coincidentally still has the women who star in the movie in it. Jesus indeed.
excelsiorlef
Member
Because it's not hitting the eyeball of the same people the official one does.
Because they only care about the official release. Ya know the one with 10 million views.
You shared re posts of that same trailer and they are all liked more than disliked.
Sooooo what makes the official video special... can't be the same thing that made the teaser so special could it?
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Cool, "distributed dislike campaign" theory. Ladies, we have reached the bargaining stage. See y'all at grief.
excelsiorlef
Member
The ABC news report on Anita Sarkeesian demonstrates their ability.
60k dislikes to 1k likes. Basically all other ABC videos have little to no likes or dislikes and the ones that are substantial are all overwhelmingly in favour of likes.
But combine feminism and Anita and GG and boom the reddit cesspool descends with their dislikes.
It's a demonstrable phenomenon.
stufte
Member
So out of curiosity I checked over at the bastion of anti-feminism, you know the one on reddit, and there's actually a post about the recut. Every post in that thread is positive.
It seems the people you are talking about have seen the non-official stuff as well.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Not sure what to think of this. The trailer is bland as can be and didn't manage to make me chuckle or even smile even once. Going by the trailer I wouldn't expect much more than a mediocre movie that just exists to cash in on the Ghostbusters name
, much like Ghostbusters 2.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Bargaining for what?
I don't even like the trailer. I think it's a poorly done piece of advertising.
What's in it for you to dismiss the obvious, though? These dislikes are absolutely disproportionate. Why is the contextually obvious misogynistic aspect immediately dismissed as a major reason for that?
stufte
Member
I'm still curious why the combined powers of the sexists and the racists didn't turn the official Star Wars trailer into something similar.
It's entirely confirmation bias.
plasmawave
Banned
So was Gem downvoted by sexists too?
WordAssassin
Member
First off let me clarify, in case you took it the wrong way, that I meant have patience to see the actual movie. Which is something that nobody on this earth has done other than the people involved with making it. If that's what you thought I meant, then according to BronsonLee who has apparently read the script, then I reiterate that you should be patient and watch the actual movie before you go spouting vitriol everywhere because from the look and sound of things, you might be making assumptions about the character that aren't true based off a really bad trailer.
Now, taking your advice, I looked up the term "magical negro" because I had never heard of it before. After reading the wiki and TV Tropes page on it, yeah, I can see why someone assuming Patty plays that role would be upset. The thing is, even from what little we have seen, it looks like she doesn't actually play that role at all?
For those not in the know, as I was, apparently Magical Negro is a character that has infinite wisdom and sometimes even literal magic powers, who appears briefly to impart sage advice on main characters, often white, and then either disappears or is killed. Immediately this stands out as not what Winston or Patty are, at all. Both are main characters, first and foremost. I guess you can call Winston one if you view him as someone that shows up to "save" the other three GBs, except that he doesn't impart any wisdom, he becomes a main part of the cast, and he is just a regular person looking for a job. He doesn't even save anyone or impart any wisdom, he just helps them with their work load. He could have been literally any race, but maybe that's part of the problem?
Patty, though, is even less of one. She is there right from the beginning of the story instead of just the back half, she's a main character, she gets everyone's shit together, and then stays with them as a major part of the team, even so much as directly saving two of her teammate's lives. That isn't just some nameless, backgroundless character in a cloak pointing to a used car lot with an old Caddy in it and then disappearing for the rest of the movie. Her main use isn't just that she has a car. If anything the trailer points out that without her, there wouldn't really be a team of people running around trying to stop these ghosts. Her role is way more important than Winston's.
I agree that having Magical Negro characters is insulting unfair bullshit, but I actually think it's unfair to the actress and the character to assume that her only role is to come help the white women. And on top of that, from what you and others in this thread have said, it comes across as if you think her character is actually somehow STUPID compared to the other three simply because she has a regular job instead of a scientist, teacher, or author. Wait two of those sound like pretty normal jobs to me too? I would actually put "government employee" higher on the list than "author-slash-ghost-hunter" but that's just me and isn't really here or there.
So, help me out please if you have the patience to do so. I know I can be opinionated and stubborn, but I always try to keep an open mind because nobody is infallible and if I'm wrong about something, I want to know so I can correct my way of thinking and acting. You talk about wanting representation. You get a character that this time is a main, driving force in a team, moreso than her spiritual predecessor Winston ever was. You even get a link to the actress' twitter feed where she is recounting an email from a fan literally saying "Hey, I have that job, and it means a lot to me seeing you up there kicking ass. Thanks for the representation." but you are still upset. Is it purely because she has an everyman job? If she played the exact same character, in the exact some way, except she was a biologist instead of an MTA worker, is that better? And if so, why does that part of it matter so much? If it was the exact same character played the exact same way but by another race, would they become a "Magical Caucasian" or "Magical Asian"? Or would they, simply by virtue of skin color, become just a "normal" character and nobody would think twice about it? Like imagine someone like Sean William Scott playing that roll. "Hey, you guys might be all smart with the sciencey stuff, but guess what fuckers? I've got a car, and I work MTA so I know this city better than anyone, so I'm joining your little gang." is he the white equivalent to a Magical Negro?
Maybe it's because I am white, and I do have an unfair privilege in life over others, but I don't see Patty as a Magical Negro character. When the Sony leaks happened I was hoping for her to not be the everyman character and then when they officially announced who was playing who, I was disappointed that it seemed like they were falling into the same trope (didn't know what it was called at the time) that Winston fell into. But after seeing the trailer she looks far, far more important to the movie and the team then that. I think that the Magical Negro trope existing is fucked up, I empathize with the frustration of seeing role after role delegated to that sort of character, but I don't see why or how Patty fits that role. But maybe I'm taking the definition of the Magical Nego to literally? I am absolutely open to explanation and clarification. And I think I saw someone suggest I might be racist in my thoughts? I may have misinterpreted that but I sincerely fuckin hope I'm not and if anything I've said has come across that way please for the love of God tell me because that is not something I ever want to be.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I'm thinking because it was a sequel not a reboot and the old guard was coming back in force. That and the terrible prequels already made everyone pretty cynical about it being good.
Count Dookkake
Member
Now looky here, I don'ts know nuffin' 'bout no science stuffs like a yous do.
Fairly shameful, tbh. It's 2016, right?
Fairly shameful, tbh. It's 2016, right?
excelsiorlef
Member
2k votes total evenly split.
Doesn't help your "point"
And that trailer was about a million times worse than this one
plasmawave
Banned
Your definition of "evenly split" is weird.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaPgK073xEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfa9t-TeeVU
stufte
Member
Woah hold on, only official trailers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifhszsZKg4
Though admittedly yours has more views.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Star Wars isn't Ghostbusters, and Star Wars wasn't introduced to the public via poison-pen narrative by an angry blogger. People might not realize, but the knowledge of this project was broken by a film writer at Deadline who absolutely did not like the project at all, and put the news out there with a decidedly editorialized bent that emphasized the idea that the reboot was being done specifically to tell past fans to fuck off, largely because they were male. That news (and the air around that news) started poisonous, and has stayed largely poisonous ever since, causing the film to be a much more easily rallied-around point of controversy for angry MRAs, whereas Star Wars is a harder hill to fight on largely because of the sheer size of its audience and the brightness of its particular media spotlight. If you're a fucking roach, you're not looking to dance too long in the kliegs because someone's absolutely gonna step on you.
Anyway, you didn't answer a single one of my questions, either.
What's in it for you to pretend sexists have nothing to do with this? What are you getting out of that?
I mean, not to play the slapjack game of counter-example you were trying to run earlier in the thread, but here's one:
In 2014, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles got rebooted. Reaction to this was largely negative. People complained loudly, at length, not just in forums/messageboards/twitter/social media, but in various thinkpieces and blogposts throughout the entertainment media. Nobody liked what was happening to "their" Turtles. Aesthetically, it seemed the direct opposite of what anyone enjoying the series up to that point wanted from it. A miscalculation, a misjudgment of what made it good, translated cynically to attract younger, dumber audiences.
Here's the teaser trailer for that, which only cemented negative opinion further that the Michael Bay-produced film was going to be an abhorrent mess of a film that shit all over the '80s/'90s era fun and good times millions of little boys everywhere had with those characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZ0PnDZdZk
Here are the stats for this mostly unliked, poorly-recieved trailer for a movie many fans did not trust to be done right at all:
8 million views
24k likes
3.5k dislikes
This is a trailer for an '80s property scorned by nostalgic fans for its shitty trailer exhibiting a mood and tone that seems to betray everything that made the originals work.
Why isn't it near 50? Why is it even close to 25%
Again, are we really going to pretend that organized online sexism has NOTHING to do with the response here? Why would we do that? What's the point of it?
It's not like you need to disavow the obvious in order to continue to criticize the bad trailer for being bad. You don't even need to discuss the likes & dislikes to go in on why the ad is not great.
So when someone brings up how disproportionate the dislikes are, and points to the very, very, very obvious aspect of sexism in its numbers, made obvious by the last few YEARS of experience in discussing not just the film, but any media event that is closely identified with gender politics specifically as its main talking point - what's the point in disputing that? How does disputing that help you out any?
excelsiorlef
Member
The one I was looking at was split.
You might want to post the specific video with your point next time.
And congratulations is your argument that this GB trailer is on the level of one of the worst trailers and concepts created in the past several years?
It's like talking to a brick wall.
Also see Bobby Roberts' post above cause that's a mic drop.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Your comment still doesn't make sense.
Gem always had female characters so why would people be upset and post sexist comments about that?
From the very beginning of this movie's production people have been against it because it had a all female cast.
plasmawave
Banned
And it doesn't even cross your mind that to some people the new Ghostbusters movie trailer is just as bad?
Talking to a wall indeed.
You'd be more convincing if you hadn't spent time jumping down the throats of people who had legitimate criticisms of this thing. I mostly (not entirely) agree with your take on the dislikes, but on a visceral level I just want to say you're wrong because of that earlier shit.
excelsiorlef
Member
Did I say all?
Do you believe my statement is without the misogynists and GB puritanicals that this video would have zero dislikes?
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