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[RiccochetJ]

Time to move on from consoles

Here's a good thread for your new life!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1094682

 

[wonderful103]

Im not taking it that way. More just that the PS4 will still get all the same support

Yes. Devs are making their games on APIs, not metal. Hence the whole notion of increased efficiency and 2x this and that and coding to the metal and all the other myths associated with console development just aren't happening and why things like this (from all manufacturers) can.

 

[orochi91]

2016 is not happening.

1. AMD Zen chips haven't launched yet.
2. The first 14 NM card's havent shipped
3. HBM is still in its infancy, with Fury X suffering a 4 GB cap.
4. Launching Q4 2016 would put PSVR in direct competition with PS4.5.
5. It's MARCH, and we've yet to hear a single announcement.
6. Developers are JUST now hearing about it. Sounds like devkits haven't even SHIPPED.



Conclusion? 2017/8 sounds realistic. 4K televisions will be in consumer hands, 14nm GPUs will have ironed out any superlative yield issues, and enough PSVR headsets will be in the hands of consumers to start speaking about new hardware.

Good summary.

I'll hold on to my PS4 for a while longer then.

 

[bigboss370]

Don't think this is happening.

Only reason i think it would happen is if Sony feel they need to counter MS's plans for a more powerful XB1.

 

[viveks86]

It is a step into the direction of the PC hardware development.

iOS is a better comparison. 2007 started with one iPhone, then it was an annual upgrade, and now we have... uh... 3 iPhone versions, 5 iPad versions, Apple Watch and Apple TV, all sold in the same product cycle. Despite the fact that there is only one platform owner.

Playstation will start its way into that kind of fragmentation "end of the year", as someone said.

I don't want that to happen. Fuck it.

You have a console that is going to be 4 years old and there are rumors of an upgrade. That's the extent of our knowledge. Going from that to iOS-like fragmentation seems like a extremely pessimistic extrapolation. There is no proven market need for so many different options on gaming consoles. There is a PC market for that. However, people want their consoles to be the latest and greatest at any point in time. There is a middle ground here that both the manufacturers and consumers would benefit from. And it seems increasingly likely that both Sony and MS will explore it.

 

[Markoman]

2016 is not happening.

1. AMD Zen chips haven't launched yet.
2. The first 14 NM card's havent shipped
3. HBM is still in its infancy, with Fury X suffering a 4 GB cap.
4. Launching Q4 2016 would put PSVR in direct competition with PS4.5.
5. It's MARCH, and we've yet to hear a single announcement.
6. Developers are JUST now hearing about it. Sounds like devkits haven't even SHIPPED.



Conclusion? 2017/8 sounds realistic. 4K televisions will be in consumer hands, 14nm GPUs will have ironed out any superlative yield issues, and enough PSVR headsets will be in the hands of consumers to start speaking about new hardware.

Yes, this makes sense. Everything else is wishful thinking.

 

[YuriLowell]

I bet this thing upscales games to 4K. No way it renders them at 4K.

 

[Glorified G]

Sony has said that they're treating PSVR as a new platform. So they'd be launching two new platforms if this PS4.5 came out this year on top of having to market whichever games they have planned for this year while explaining to people how things are going to be different across the PS4 and PS4.5 as well as PSVR. To say that it would be a mess is an understatement. It doesn't make sense. Especially since Sony's approach this gen has been very straight forward.

Perhaps Sony doesn't see this as a new platform, just an update to the current one.

 

[mugurumakensei]

This was inevitable with the switch to x86. Forward and backward compatibility kept through engine scaling*. It allows manufacturers the ability to boost specs to entice new customers as well as get more money off the really enthusiastic enthusiast.

*To a degree. There will definitely be a point where developers will support only a certain revision or greater if lowered specs can not replicate a particular future at a reasonable frame rate. Reasonable being determined by the developer of a given title.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Don't panic will give you the exact opposite reaction.

 

[Dlacy13g]

So basically both console makers are planning to do a mid generation upgrade if true...interesting...and I am all for it.

 

[El_Chino]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

So it's not a big upgrade?

Or maybe you can upgrade?

 

[Obliterator]

Which is obvious, since no sane developer would focus on the PS4.5 when the PS4 has a user base of 40 million. It wouldn't make any financial sense to shift the primary focus away from the old PS4.

Yep. I would just expect the 4.5 version to have maybe some better effects and better frame rates. No difference to the level of them dropping PS4 support

 

[prwxv3]

The point is that people value having one spec for consoles and not being pushed to upgrade. This route is the PC infrastructure with few of the benefits. If you buy a PC you buy into an open platform.

Being forced (games only for ps4.5 which will not be happening because of the install base) and there being incentives (better performance) are two completely different things.

 

[LostDonkey]

I bet this thing upscales games to 4K. No way it renders them at 4K.

Don't most semi decent 4k TV's do that anyway?

 

[flipswitch]

If it runs Bloodborne at 60fps, I'm in. If Bloodborne still runs the same, I'm out.

60fps with frame skipping!.

 

[GnawtyDog]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

 

[Nibel]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

Panic Room PS4.5 exclusive VR demo confirmed, pack it up people, Kaz is against us

 

[jroc74]

Whelp, I guess I was wrong in my initial impression then. In that case, I think a lot of this has been misinterpreted about it being an actual substantial hardware upgrade for 4k gaming and it's more likely just a hardware revision for HDMI 2.0+ and 4k output if it's coming out in 2016.

Party pooper.

And this would make sense. Revision usually are very minimal upgrades.

 

[Mediking]

It's exactly the same. You don't miss out on gameplay features on old ipads and you don't miss out on gameplay features on PC if you are running the game on lower settings.

Yeah... but there's still gonna be a nagging thought in the back of your head that's gonna be like, "This is fun.... but there's a way for this game to look better and run smoother..."

 

[David Ricardo]

They don't make a separate port for every graphics card on the market. The sky isn't falling.

Yes, that's why you have to buy more expensive hardware every few years to keep up with the new games. Remember the 750ti that was about the same performance as a PS4 last year? Try playing The Division or Rise of the Tomb Raider with that now.

 

[Gurnlei]

We do it now. We buy revisions in any given generation, no? It's really odd people can't wrap their heads around this?

Consoles are simple. They aren't going to expect the masses to replace parts on it. Do you replace parts on a iPad?

IMO this is different as being sold as an upgrade to the PS4 instead of a PS5. What makes the difference? What will draw the line between incremental upgrades and a new system name? Guess we have to wait and see.

 

[LostDonkey]

Yeah... but there's still gonna be a nagging thought in the back of your head that's gonna be like, "This is fun.... but there's a way for this game to look better and run smoother..."

But there is already.....PC.

Besides exclusives, obviously.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Perhaps Sony doesn't see this as a new platform, just an update to the current one.

So they're going to toss out a console that's significantly more powerful than the current PS4 (it would have to be to run games at 4K) but not make a big deal out of it?

 

[onQ123]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

What that mean?


Does it mean we shouldn't panic because it's still the same games just rendered in 4K on the new consoles or we shouldn't panic because there will be a add on that will do the same thing to the old consoles?

 

[vcc]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

So a upgraded SKU is coming but perhaps not a game focused base spec bump?

 

[TyrantII]

It wasn't too long ago when Gabe Newell criticized Sony for holding the industry back with its stupid cell technology. Look at em now. What a difference a decade makes. The traditional console model has been outdated for a long time. Its time to grow out of the 90s. An evolution is needed. Sony are doing the right thing.

Looking at the gangbusters NPD and international sales data this gen, how is the traditional console model outdated?

PlayStation is Sonys best division.

 

[farisr]

.

 

[El_Chino]

2016 is not happening.

1. AMD Zen chips haven't launched yet.
2. The first 14 NM card's havent shipped
3. HBM is still in its infancy, with Fury X suffering a 4 GB cap.
4. Launching Q4 2016 would put PSVR in direct competition with PS4.5.
5. It's MARCH, and we've yet to hear a single announcement.
6. Developers are JUST now hearing about it. Sounds like devkits haven't even SHIPPED.

Conclusion? 2017/8 sounds realistic. More 4K televisions will be in consumer hands, 14nm GPUs will have ironed out any superlative yield issues, and enough PSVR headsets will have sold to consumers to start speaking about new hardware.

There are other AMD cpus and Gpus you know....It could still be 28nm.

 

[Turkoop]

What if it's a software update and not hardware type? Is this possible..

SPEAK ZOETIS.. Pls..

 

[Hawk269]

I bet this thing upscales games to 4K. No way it renders them at 4K.

4k TV's already upscale any non-4k content to 4k, so it is not needed for the console to do it as well.

 

[Lingitiz]

Being forced (games only for ps4.5 which will not be happening because ok the install base) and there being incentives (better performance) are two completely different things.

The fear is that developers will move towards the higher spec system over time leading to a situation where games on the lower spec are unoptimized and left with poor performance, where the solution is "buy the new system" rather than making sure the game runs consistently.

 

[flipswitch]

The new ps4 sits on top of your old ps4 and you just plug it into one of the USB ports. Double the power.

 

[wonderful103]

Yeah... but there's still gonna be a nagging thought in the back of your head that's gonna be like, "This is fun.... but there's a way for this game to look better and run smoother..."

You mean the same thing you're saying to PC gamers now?

Yes, that's why you have to buy more expensive hardware every few years to keep up with the new games. Remember the 750ti that was about the same performance as a PS4 last year? Try playing The Division or Rise of the Tomb Raider with that now.

750ti actually *shouldn't* keep up with PS4 based on its spec, and yet it mostly has, and is. 7870 is doing better than PS4 settings according to the benches I saw in the other thread. As it should. Like I've said, no magic. It is what it is.

 

[Croatoan]

Multiplayer will be fun now when I'm getting shot by someone running at 120fps because my ps4 can't run it that high. So much fun!!

Fuck it I'll just got PC 100% if that's the way especially with the reducing amount of exclusives the consoles are getting.

Yes, run to the pastures where the guys rocking triple titans graze, that'll teach bad guy Sony. How dare they provide people with disposable income more expensive models that feature more power.

I mean fuck options and more money right?

 

[Finalow]

Im not taking it that way. More just that the PS4 will still get all the same support

no way, I thought they were going to abandon a console released 2.5 years ago and bought by millions of people.

thank god he confirmed the support.

 

[Fisty]

Dont do this Sony. Just wait until 2018 and release PS5. It will make everyone much more open to the idea of quick upgrades, and it should still play PS4 games as well anyway. HBM and AMD Zen need more time in the oven anyway, iirc. UHD and blisteringly-fast PSVR framerates can wait 2.5 years... dont let MS coax you into this nonsense.

 

[Afro]

Sony has no reason at all to do this, a game like Uncharted 4 and Horizon really show what their system is capable of and that's not even the limit.

What if I want to play Uncharted 4 single player at 60fps, though? This is an attractive option unless they keep the 30fps cap, but crank up the res, which would make the PS4.5 a pointless purchase for me b/c I don't own a 4K set.

 

[-Horizon-]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

 

[Aceofspades]

No way in hell Sony would change the inners of PS4, if anything this would be PS4 slim with VR break box included or adding some usb ports. Sony have done this a lot in the past (PS2 different slim versions, PS1 with screen attachment. . . etc)

 

[Raist]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

 

[Glorified G]

So they're going to toss out a console that's significantly more powerful than the current PS4 (it would have to be to run games at 4K) but not make a big deal out of it?

If that insider is correct an it is coming out at the end of the year, then this theory seems most probable and this is only a revision/update:

Whelp, I guess I was wrong in my initial impression then. In that case, I think a lot of this has been misinterpreted about it being an actual substantial hardware upgrade for 4k gaming and it's more likely just a hardware revision for HDMI 2.0+ and 4k output if it's coming out in 2016.

 

[The God]

So it's not a big upgrade?

I guess it depends on what you mean by big upgrade but I'm personally not expecting anything that would put the system in the $500 range

 

[gelf]

Im sorry, you simply don't understand. There will be no install base splitting. Just people playing the same games at different graphic settings. Just like pc but without the "hassles", whatever they are. Your ps4 will still be good to go, unless playing at 30fps while others play at 60 destroys the experience for you. If that is the case your issues have nothing to do with video games.

This issue could be more that overstretching causes the 4.5 version to run at 40fps and the PS4 version is down to 20. When a game designed just for PS4 with its and only it's capabilities in mind could be 30.

 

[Chobel]

Dont you "panic" existing ps4 users

I have no idea what to think anymore.

 

[vcc]

What if it's a software update and not hardware type? Is this possible..

SPEAK ZOETIS.. Pls..

hdmi improvement in firmware. Which could enable 4k output of video.

 

[thuway]

There are other AMD cpus and Gpus you know....It could still be 28nm.

That would be like throwing every thing logical and sensible into a pit because "reasons". We are on the precupice of a pretty big transition in the world of GPUs, and even moreso in the world of AMD CPUs. On top of that, an entirely new RAM architecture that literally laughs in the face of bandwith concerns is in the cards for this year. If Sony is impatient enough to not wait another full 8-10 months, than yeah, they'll go 28 nm.

 

[kogasu]

Ok well, I'll wait to hear what officially is happening with this before I make any big judgements.

Games in 4k at this moment seems too....crazy to actually try and do on a console such as this with the upgrades that they are supposedly giving it. Look how split this is with everyone already. I think I'm more inclined to believe it as the "Slim" level upgrade model to the PS4 with maybe 4K support for videos if they wanna do something with 4k and then some increased performance for both games and VR stuff I guess. We shouldn't make a huge deal out of it yet.

Also, I was afraid this would happen. I basically just bought my PS4! D:

 

[prwxv3]

The fear is that developers will move towards the higher spec system over time leading to a situation where games on the lower spec are unoptimized and left with poor performance, where the solution is "buy the new system" rather than making sure the game runs consistently.

They will not abandone the existing huge install base that easily. Most likely every other console (every 6 years perhaps) will cut the support of the previous console.

 

[Nameless]

Sometimes I think people are incapable of enjoying thing if they know that another persons thing is slightly better.

They call it, "keeping up with the Jones'".

This. There are 40+ million PS4s out there and that number grows daily. Selling software & services to these people will remain a priority for the foreseeable future, it can't not. At same time modern PC gaming is filled with former core console gamers who were willing to pay a premium for more capable hardware. At this point not giving those types a people more options within the PlayStation ecosystem is literally just leaving money on the table, especially as the chasm between current consoles and PC widens exponentially as time goes on.


Plus it solidifies PSVR going forward as it would be able to receive the more ambitious Vive/Rift ports.