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[KAL2006]

This I could get behind.
But I still think PS4.5 will make PS5 feel less impactful and more customer will play waiting game hence slower adoption rate, ultimately hurt PS5 in the long run.

It really depends

If PS4.5 os treated just as a minor upgrade. Better graphics same controller and similar design to PS4. Same software updates on the PS etc.

However with PS5 it has a bigger jump in graphics, different controller design and completely new OS and some unique features to the console to set it apart.

 

[thelastword]

Maybe the move to 14nm will allow them to clock the GPU to 1.6Ghz & use all 20 CU's that would be 4.09 Tflops without needing a new design.

That'd be a good boost and will allow the PS4 to float right past 2020 with some good first party efforts. If they can get the fab node to 14nm and boost the clock on both CPU and GPU whilst improving wifi, streaming hardware module to allow 1080 60fps, 4k for bluray and 4k upscale (for games).......and of course, if they can in cooperate all that and other improvements to their slim version of the hardware, I'd say that would be a great accomplishment. Old games could get a nice boost too.

 

[JaseC]

A PS4.5 isn't going to be sufficient for 4K games, either, unless Sony is willing to significantly increase the 250W ceiling.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Just do this.
Your welcome.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Do iPads confuse consumers? Do iPhones 6 or 6 plus confuse consumers? Does the edge or s7 confuse?

Consoles are not phones and tablets.

There's very different expectations between mobile devices and consoles.

Consoles should NOT be following Apple's example because it's led to crap incrimental upgrades rather than any true advances - "iPhone, now with hat" - there's no impressive leaps unless you wait because of this need to chase the "slight improvement".

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

This I could get behind.
But I still think PS4.5 will make PS5 feel less impactful and more customer will play waiting game hence slower adoption rate, ultimately hurt PS5 in the long run.

It won't be less impactful. Don't expect a big graphical update with PS4.5. I've said multiple times in this thread that, given what we know of the supposed price point, this thing will be able to run current gen games at slightly higher resolutions and framerates, but that's it.

4k gaming isn't going to be the norm, and the games will still pale in comparison to PC Ultra settings. Again, I use the Battlefield example. BF5 will likely look the same on both, asset wise, but the PS4.5 version will run at 1080p/60fps instead of 900p/60fps. And that's an absolute best case scenario.

 

[mango_ash]

Don't you dare Sony to divide your installed base!

 

[wapplew]

It won't be less impactful. Don't expect a big graphical update with PS4.5. I've said multiple times in this thread that, given what we know of the supposed price point, this thing will be able to run current gen games at slightly higher resolutions and framerates, but that's it.

4k gaming isn't going to be the norm, and the games will still pale in comparison to PC Ultra settings. Again, I use the Battlefield example. BF5 will likely look the same on both, asset wise, but the PS4.5 version will run at 1080p/60fps instead of 900p/60fps. And that's an absolute best case scenario.

Ok, so a very impactful PS5 will release how many years after 4.5? If 3 years tech advancement only able to achieve slightly higher resolutions and framerates, when will be the true genration jump?

 

[Synth]

Look at Wii -> WiiU DS -> 3DS -> n3DS. There was definitely a lot of confusion even when it was a generational leap. Nintendo had to completely phase out the original 3DS and 3DSxL models for n3DS to get its foothold.

Er... people were confused by the 3DS, 2DS, 3DS XL, New 3DS, New 3DS XL and the Wii U. Because consoles aren't mobile phones.

The comparisons to Nintendo's naming schemes are misguided. People were confused about these machines for precisely the opposite reasoning. They're are named as though they SHOULD play the same games library. If a Wii could play Wii U games, or a DS could play 3DS games (like is being suggested for a PS4.5) then the confusion wouldn't have happened. They are named as though they should be platform iterations akin to an iPhone 4 to iPhone 4S, but then you walk over to the game shelves and there's a separate software library for a Wii, and Wii U, a DS, a 3DS and a New 3DS. If there were simply Wii games and DS games, in the way that there'd just be PlayStation 4 games.. the general consumer would "get it" immediately.

 

[nekkid]

Er... people were confused by the 3DS, 2DS, 3DS XL, New 3DS, New 3DS XL and the Wii U. Because consoles aren't mobile phones. A better question to ask is if the original 3DS owners are happy that they can't have SNES emulation? Are the Xbone early adopters happy that they were forced to pay for Kinect when later adopters weren't? Now imagine how happy PS4 owners would be at this prospect. In addition to the console-priced peripheral in October.

Are you sure that wasn't because of the shit naming "system" of all the examples you cite?

 

[Lurky]

This is awesome news for me. I was already planning on getting a ps4 for bloodborne but couldn't bring myself to do it because I keep thinking about all the money I spent on my PC. At least this would make me feel a little bit better about it (assuming that I still want to buy it after I find out where I'm going).

 

[JP]

There isn't really anything known about this at the moment so it isn't really possible to judge whether it would be a good thing and much of that will be down to how well they deal with it. After thinking about it for a few days, I actually quite like the idea of getting a more advanced PS4 in 2017. That really surprises me because it's aways seemed like a terrible idea to me.

We'll see though.

 

[Fess]

There isn't really anything known about this at the moment so it isn't really possible to judge whether it would be a good thing and much of that will be down to how well they deal with it. After thinking about it for a few days, I actually quite like the idea of getting a more advanced PS4 in 2017. That really surprises me because it's aways seemed like a terrible idea to me.

We'll see though.

I'd rather get a PS5 if we're talking about 2017, a PS4.5 in 2017 would only mean that PS5 wouldn't arrive until 2020.

 

[nekkid]

I'd rather get a PS5 if we're talking about 2017, a PS4.5 in 2017 would only mean that PS5 wouldn't arrive until 2020.

I'm curious: to those people who say this, what sort of distinction are you expecting between the two?

 

[xsapeguy2014]

This is the whole reason i think sony got it wrong with ps4.
Give a software developer with a huge ego a carte blanche ability to develop a gaming system for 2014. He thinks oh this will be cool and will be easy for other developers to make games quick.... The reality no. Still takes them years to get the best looking and playing games out but the system then is getting old.

Go back to the likes of ps2 and even ps3 and this stands the test of time because it pushes the industry to work out how best to use the advanced chips!

Sorry but as i said when ps4 released. The system is nothing special just the games made for it now and the new add ons. Mark Cerny you suck!

Ken kutagari got kicked up ass by some huge ego person that now has to make aanother ps4 . I wont be buying it.

 

[xsapeguy2014]

I only thought ps4 was worth buying this year because of exclusives at long last coming out. When this first released it was like an indie station! Not playstation.
I now know what all the 1st part was working on vr. If that bombs Sony you really are going to fail.

 

[JP]

I'd rather get a PS5 if we're talking about 2017, a PS4.5 in 2017 would only mean that PS5 wouldn't arrive until 2020.

Well, it won;t be 2016. A launch of new hardware is incredibly costly and there i no way they would or could launch PlayStation VR and this within a few months of each other.

Also, we don't know anything about what a PS4.5 would be, it isn't necessarily a followup in the way that a PS5 should be.

 

[lightchris]

The 28nm R9 370X is already clocked at 1.18Ghz

Clocks barely scale anymore with manufacturing processes. Plus high clock speeds are bad for power consumption (mainly because higher voltages are needed to achieve them), which is why console processors usually run at relatively low clock speeds.
I also fail to see why it would even be needed. Just use 32 CUs @ 1 GHz, or maybe even better, 40 CUs @ 800 MHz. That would also be 4 TFLOPs, and the die size and power consumption at 14nm should be at least comparable to the current APU.

20 CU's clocked at 1.6Ghz would be 4Tflops & yes it would be enough for 4K in a closed system.

4K needs up to 4 times the processing power of 1080p (a little less in practice since not everything is resolution dependend). If the 1.84 TFLOPS GPU only manages 1080p "in a closed system", 4 TFLOPS won't be enough for 4K in the same closed system.

 

[luffeN]

Something just struck me regarding Sony's short GDC presentation. House said something about AAA titles being possible / coming to PSVR. I cannot find the whole presentation, but might that comment also hint to a newer PS4 model that is more powerful?

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Ok, so a very impactful PS5 will release how many years after 4.5? If 3 years tech advancement only able to achieve slightly higher resolutions and framerates, when will be the true genration jump?

With PS5? lol You're too focused on PS4.5 being this significant jump over PS4. It won't be. The closest comparison is 3DS to n3DS. It'll patch up areas Sony cheaped out on with the original PS4 and be more ready to handle 4K media content (not necessarily games) and VR.

PS4.5 won't be representative of "3 years of tech advancement". That's not the point of Sony releasing it. It'll still lag behind modern gaming rigs.

 

[DieH@rd]

Something just struck me regarding Sony's short GDC presentation. House said something about AAA titles being possible / coming to PSVR. I cannot find the whole presentation, but might that comment also hint to a newer PS4 model that is more powerful?

He maybe though about DriveClub, pCARS, GT7 Sport, AC7 and other cockpit games. Those are big budget games that are easy fit for VR adaptation.

 

[jelly]

I don't understand how a PS5 releasing a few years after the PS4.5 would not be a big thing. You might be on a PS4 then go to PS5 which could be a big leap. If you bought a PS4.5 then went to a PS5, what is the problem, you had it better than PS4 and now even better than a PS4.5 and all your games work on PS5. If you want to wait for a mid gen PS5, this might come as a shock, you have willpower and can wait.

There isn't some rule that you should be impressed to some level or it's void. What do you say about people who buy a Slim PS3 and 360 late on in the generation then the PS4 and Xbox One come out, that's totally unfair and too soon, no that's nonsense. You jump in when you think it's right, Microsoft and Sony are not forcing your hand or making you buy every iteration.

 

[wapplew]

With PS5? lol You're too focused on PS4.5 being this significant jump over PS4. It won't be. The closest comparison is 3DS to n3DS. It'll patch up areas Sony cheaped out on with the original PS4 and be more ready to handle 4K media content (not necessarily games) and VR.

PS4.5 won't be representative of "3 years of tech advancement". That's not the point of Sony releasing it. It'll still lag behind modern gaming rigs.

So, what's point of PS4.5 again? Why not just PS4 slim with 4K output support?
Also, do you realize 3 years of tech advancement on GPU only gain 45-60% fps improvement and what you want, the jump from 1080p 30 to 1080p 60 need 100% fps improvement.

 

[mitchlol]

The only advantage I can see with an iterative upgrade path for consoles is that investments into the psn store won't be all left behind at the end of the generation. One of my pet hates with digital purchases on consoles vs PC is the way library's become redundant when the next generation starts, unlike PC where games run in (almost) perpetuity.

I'm not sure if I will upgrade my PC or upgrade my console but it is unlikely I will do both. Having been only using the ps4 for the last week while my PC is waiting on parts to arrive, I can see how people love the ease of use. Having said that 30fps for games like Far Cry and sub 60fps for other games does make me wish I had a much more powerful console. Price is not so much of an issue for me if I'm choosing between either console/PC it comes down to performance.

 

[emag]

So, what's point of PS4.5 again? Why not just PS4 slim with 4K output support?

Call it what you will. PS4.5 = PS4K = PS4 slim with HDMI 2.0 and 4K BD/upscaling (and possibly some simple 4K games, akin to Flower or Journey).

 

[ssharm02]

Call it what you will. PS4.5 = PS4K = PS4 slim with HDMI 2.0 and 4K BD/upscaling (and possibly some simple 4K games, akin to Flower or Journey).

the insider said better hardware not just upscaling

 

[GhostTrick]

Maybe the move to 14nm will allow them to clock the GPU to 1.6Ghz & use all 20 CU's that would be 4.09 Tflops without needing a new design.

Yeah... it doesn't work like this.

 

[fastmower]

This is the whole reason i think sony got it wrong with ps4.
Give a software developer with a huge ego a carte blanche ability to develop a gaming system for 2014. He thinks oh this will be cool and will be easy for other developers to make games quick.... The reality no. Still takes them years to get the best looking and playing games out but the system then is getting old.

Go back to the likes of ps2 and even ps3 and this stands the test of time because it pushes the industry to work out how best to use the advanced chips!

Sorry but as i said when ps4 released. The system is nothing special just the games made for it now and the new add ons. Mark Cerny you suck!

Ken kutagari got kicked up ass by some huge ego person that now has to make aanother ps4 . I wont be buying it.

What a bizarre post.

 

[TyrantII]

Here is the answer Sony. 4 year upgrade model. 8 years generation shift

November 2013 - PS4
November 2017 - PS4.5
November 2021 - PS5

PS4 will be forward compatible with PS4.5. All PS4 Games run on both PS4 and PS4.5. There is no confusion as games will still be boxed as PS4 Games. PS4.5 will act as the PS3 Slim of this generation. If will have the same marketing cycle where it's announced not too long before release. The advantage of it is running games on a higher setting save for a few notable VR games that will be exclusive. PS4 owners won't get the shaft as all games will be forward compatible and are jot required to buy this. And for people who feel that the generation goes on for too long and need something new can upgrade every 4 years.

Now when the PS5 releases. All PS4 Games will be backwards compatible. However PS4.5 will not be forward compatible as this will be a true generational shift. Consumers won't get confused as games will be boxed as PS5 games.

Count me out.

If I'm dropping $400 every few years, I'll just go back to building a PC.

 

[xsapeguy2014]

Nothing bizarre about it. I am not fan of ps4 console , now its just same as glorified pc . Gone are the days of visionaries like kutaragi thats why Sony has to bring out a new console less than the original 10 year plan!

 

[GhostTrick]

Count me out.

If I'm dropping $400 every few years, I'll just go back to building a PC.

That's what you're actually doing. Console gets release every 5 to 6 years.

 

[KAL2006]

Count me out.

If I'm dropping $400 every few years, I'll just go back to building a PC.

Erm you know you have a choice. Wait for PS5 you won't be forced to bit a PS4.5

 

[xsapeguy2014]

Consoles used to be an experience when i got my ps2 after ps3 i was proud! When i got ps3 over ps2 i was proud and excited! When i got ps4 it was about the games no visionary ideas to boot like 4k gaming or even full functionality like ps3 even had! Thats what you get if you give a developer, a job of a visionary designer. Just a big ego and a glorified pc!

Even today ps4 still has not got music cd mp3 4 functionality!

Nintendo will alter the scales with Nx just u watch this space!

 

[benny_a]

Even today ps4 still has not got music cd mp3 4 functionality!

Arrogant Hubris Sony is back!

 

[El_Chino]

Count me out.

If I'm dropping $400 every few years, I'll just go back to building a PC.

You'll be dropping $400+ on a pc every few years to upgrade your gpu/ram/cpu etc though....

 

[emag]

the insider said better hardware not just upscaling

Oh, it's better hardware in that it's cheaper and more featured. And it supports simple 4K games. It's just not significantly more powerful.

That's my expectation, at least.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

Erm you know you have a choice. Wait for PS5 you won't be forced to bit a PS4.5

That's exactly what the poster expressed. Their choice. I don't understand posts like this.

 

[WAR recon zero]

Ps4 sales are trending high. Pretty sure they will plummet if this happens

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Isn't the CPU the weak link in the chain? Seems like a better CPU would improve things more than a faster GPU.

 

[notaskwid]

Consoles used to be an experience when i got my ps2 after ps3 i was proud! When i got ps3 over ps2 i was proud and excited! When i got ps4 it was about the games no visionary ideas to boot like 4k gaming or even full functionality like ps3 even had! Thats what you get if you give a developer, a job of a visionary designer. Just a big ego and a glorified pc!

Even today ps4 still has not got music cd mp3 4 functionality!

Nintendo will alter the scales with Nx just u watch this space!

 

[lame gag]

The majority of consumers won't even have a 4K TV. Just wait until the next generation.

 

[metareferential]

Count me out.

If I'm dropping $400 every few years, I'll just go back to building a PC.

That would be every 4 years.

And you don't have to, support is going to be there for your hardware for far longer.

PC gaming in the long run is more viable, nothing new. It's already like that (especially if you factor in performance/price ratio).

 

[MrHoot]

You'll be dropping $400+ on a pc every few years to upgrade your gpu/ram/cpu etc though....

But at least with a better library and non-paid online, etc...

One of the very very few advantages that console still has is that it's a cheaper alternative than PCs still (but not by much considering the price of peripherals, paid online multiplayer now and in general more expensive games on the store). If you start going the iterative route (which yes, you caaaaan opt out, but they'll make sure as hell that staying on the old one will make you feel more gimped than simply not updating your pc), that advantage is completely gone and you're just left with inconvenience over PC gaming

 

[TyrantII]

You'll be dropping $400+ on a pc every few years to upgrade your gpu/ram/cpu etc though....

Exactly. And getting more bang for the buck AND dirt cheap games on steam.

That's the point. If consoles go to a more iterative product cycle without a reduction in price, it's taking away the entire reason I moved away from PC.

 

[Ferr986]

You'll be dropping $400+ on a pc every few years to upgrade your gpu/ram/cpu etc though....

Lol no. An +6 years old CPU is still more than enough and leaps better than a PS4.

You'll only need to replace GPU and it would be cheaper than what you get in a possible PS4.5

 

[notaskwid]

In Japan they are trying to push 4K like crazy. For the Tokyo olympics and stuff. Real 4k is not really feasible for a console right now, and barely even in the most powerful consumer grade pcs, so my guess is, if this PS4k really happens, it will be mostly a corporate level marketing stunt to sell consoles.

 

[kinggroin]

Release a refresh every year, same packaging (slim the hardware if need be). On the fifth iteration, call it the PS5 (or whatever the next PS would be at the time).

Literally copy the Apple model but make sure to offer some kind of trade in or financing setup. Keep your customers moving forward with you.

Ensure the PS4 is the baseline for development, allowing games to reach peak level performance per refresh with patches IF THE DEVELOPER SO CHOOSES.

 

[jeffram]

That would be every 4 years.

And you don't have to, support is going to be there for your hardware for far longer.

PC gaming in the long run is more viable, nothing new. It's already like that (especially if you factor in performance/price ratio).

i'd be very much interested to see what kind of performance you'd get from a PC only spending $400 on upgrades every 4 years.

 

[Lemondish]

He maybe though about DriveClub, pCARS, GT7 Sport, AC7 and other cockpit games. Those are big budget games that are easy fit for VR adaptation.

Not to mention Star Wars Battlefront.

 

[notaskwid]

Release a refresh every year, same packaging (slim the hardware if need be). On the fifth iteration, call it the PS5 (or whatever the next PS would be at the time).

Literally copy the Apple model but make sure to offer some kind of trade in or financing setup. Keep your customers moving forward with you.

Ensure the PS4 is the baseline for development, allowing games to reach peak level performance per refresh with patches IF THE DEVELOPER SO CHOOSES.

Except Iphones are sold with a huge profit margin and that Apple can sell more in a trimester than most consoles lifetime sales.
But sure, Sony should adopt the iphone sales model.