That's because nintendo is so nintendo and they either botched the initial marketing of the wii u or were removing features from or releasing new revisions of handhelds that were actually downgrades in some aspects. 99% of successor products from other companies dont take steps back in technicals specs/performance. Nintendo actively chooses to avoid running their business like other tech companies in several ways, they are not a representative case.
Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Yor posts seem well balanced. It must be from having chips on both shoulders.
chromatic9
Member
Surprised to see all the impossible talk and alien tech is needed etc for 4k. people are putting 4k some kind of pedestal of $1000s. Thread is littered with it.
GTX 970 and 980 from 2014 are around 150W average power consumption. They are capable of 4k gaming. Sometimes at full settings, sometimes you need to drop a few settings down and even then the settings can be above console or on par. Of course not all games, AC Unity at 4k is pretty tough but I can do around 30 fps at 3200x1800. Considering many console games dip below 30 often it's really not out of reach.
AMD will need to step up though but PS4 is around 130W. has a APU which roughly looks like a 25-30W Jaguar core and rest is the 7850 ish spec GPU.
Lets not forget that the PS3 launched at around 170w in total. I can see a 150W in total machine doing around 30fps at 4k in existing games. Just have to wait and see how well the 14nm jump will go.
If you want a good example, look at 4870 vs 5870, double the performance at the same power. The recent 28nm jump was a load of rubbish frankly especially the 7000 series from AMD and sadly the PS4 and XO used this family of GPU. Shortly after that Nvidia shown the way with the 750ti at incredibly low power consumption. Knocking a 150W 970/980 down to around a 100-110 is not some quantum leap, it happens all the time and we're only talking about around 50W here.
We don't need aliens to come down and visit, or need 2x 980ti to do 4k or shrink down a $3000 PC into a APU. A 150w GPU from 2014 can do it, Sony MS missed the boat on performance and power.
A shitty AMD cpu can keep a game at 30ish, people posting their 4790k CPUs are not understanding. My shitty i7 930 from 2009 can do 60fps. Many of the crappy A8 A10 and low end FX can keep 30fps on the PC side and all you need is a £240 GPU launched in 2014. Please stop with the silly rig examples.
GTX 970 and 980 from 2014 are around 150W average power consumption. They are capable of 4k gaming. Sometimes at full settings, sometimes you need to drop a few settings down and even then the settings can be above console or on par. Of course not all games, AC Unity at 4k is pretty tough but I can do around 30 fps at 3200x1800. Considering many console games dip below 30 often it's really not out of reach.
AMD will need to step up though but PS4 is around 130W. has a APU which roughly looks like a 25-30W Jaguar core and rest is the 7850 ish spec GPU.
Lets not forget that the PS3 launched at around 170w in total. I can see a 150W in total machine doing around 30fps at 4k in existing games. Just have to wait and see how well the 14nm jump will go.
If you want a good example, look at 4870 vs 5870, double the performance at the same power. The recent 28nm jump was a load of rubbish frankly especially the 7000 series from AMD and sadly the PS4 and XO used this family of GPU. Shortly after that Nvidia shown the way with the 750ti at incredibly low power consumption. Knocking a 150W 970/980 down to around a 100-110 is not some quantum leap, it happens all the time and we're only talking about around 50W here.
We don't need aliens to come down and visit, or need 2x 980ti to do 4k or shrink down a $3000 PC into a APU. A 150w GPU from 2014 can do it, Sony MS missed the boat on performance and power.
A shitty AMD cpu can keep a game at 30ish, people posting their 4790k CPUs are not understanding. My shitty i7 930 from 2009 can do 60fps. Many of the crappy A8 A10 and low end FX can keep 30fps on the PC side and all you need is a £240 GPU launched in 2014. Please stop with the silly rig examples.
And those cards cost more than a ps4.
There is no need for alien tech, but how will you attain 4K on modern games WHILE keeping the low power consumption WHILE keeping it cool WHILE keeping it affordable (sub 400)?
wapplew
Member
And AMD need to cramp those transistor into single chip along with a CPU.
Surprised to see all the impossible talk and alien tech is needed etc for 4k. people are putting 4k some kind of pedestal of $1000s. Thread is littered with it.
GTX 970 and 980 from 2014 are around 150W average power consumption. They are capable of 4k gaming. Sometimes at full settings, sometimes you need to drop the a few settings down and even then the settings can be above console or on par. Of course not all games, AC Unity at 4k is pretty tough but I can do around 30 fps at 3200x1800. Considering many console games dip below 30 often it's really not out of reach.
AMD will need to step up though but PS4 is around 130W. has a APU which roughly looks like a 25-30W Jaguar core and rest is the 7850 ish spec GPU.
Lets not forget that the PS3 launched at around 170w in total. I can see a 150W in total machine doing around 30fps at 4k in existing games. Just have to wait and see how well the 14nm jump will go.
If you want to a good example, look at 4870 vs 5870, double the performance at the same power. The recent 28nm jump was a load of rubbish frankly especially the 7000 series from AMD and sadly the PS4 and XO used this family of GPU. Shortly after that Nvidia shown the way with the 750ti at incredibly low power consumption. Knocking a 150W 970/980 down to around a 100-110 is not some quantum leap, it happens all the time and we're only talking about around 50W here.
We don't need aliens to come down and visit, or need 2x 980ti to do 4k or shrink down a $3000 PC into a APU. A 150w GPU from 2014 can do it, Sony MS missed the boat on performance and power.
A shitty AMD cpu can keep a game at 30ish, people posting their 4790k CPUs are not understanding. My shitty i7 930 from 2009 can do 60fps. Many of the crappy A8 A10 and low end FX can keep 30fps on the PC side and all you need is a £240 GPU launched in 2014. Please stop with the silly rig examples.
Specs for both consoles were finalized in 2011... People need to keep that in mind. Nvidia doesnt have any APU also.
Was it necessary to reply like an asshole? Your first paragraph intelligently countered my suggestion (which wasn't presented as condescending).
The last line wasn't necessary.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Assuming 2x per per watt next gen 16nm GPUs wouldn't the current 28nm Titan/980ti be re-classed as midrange?
Sorry, I've just seen the console=smartphone comparison way too many times, didn't mean it to come out that way.
Yeah more or less. One issue is the die size though. Even a Titan shrunk down would be pretty big (~320mm²) which is significantly bigger than PS4 GPU (~220-230mm²).
Neuromancer
Member
I suspect that's going to happen around the same time OJ finds the real killer.
lol get a load of this guy. He's feisty, I like it.
……forgetit
Member
Sell 60fps is more of a design decision for the developer. 60fps standard will never happen imo unless we see a massive shift in how games are developed.
wapplew
Member
They all launched within this console generation. 4K gaming at console standards is not that far out of reach.
lol no
why would you expect that? that would be crazy, Sony isn't a charity
Wind's Howling
Member
There's no free in this business.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Sure, just sign this 2 year contract for plus @ $30 a month. All yours my friend
Anthony Soprano
Member
This. They barely offered a good warranty service on the notoriously defective PS2 lasers (the fat console went through 8 variations until it was perfected, then after that last revision, they went to the slim model) or the PS3 overheating issues/YLOD even though they were design flaws.
or when we see a massive shift in how gamers compare games, in the end every game needs to be 5x more advanced then the last 1.
screaming more, more and more and expecting 1080p@60fps is verry taxing.
I don't understand why so many people think this should be priced like a console. I think it would be wise for them to position this as a high end version of the current box. Focus on the enthusiast market and deliver the same software at higher resolutions and frame rates. I also think it will be interesting to see whether or not these upgrade cycles are tied to xbox live/psn subscriptions in some way.
You're being overly sensitive. I don't think being flippant to ridiculous ideas makes you an asshole.
lol
LostDonkey
Member
Are you high?
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
Yup I am like crazy excited about it. There is no way these companies can't announce something. I would say ASAP. a lot of major sites are reporting this news. WHo in the rigght mind would buy a ps4 right now, and if i bought one within the last 6 months being pissed would be an understatement.
*Rubs hands thinking about the great battle of April's NPD*
Surprised to see all the impossible talk and alien tech is needed etc for 4k. people are putting 4k some kind of pedestal of $1000s. Thread is littered with it.
GTX 970 and 980 from 2014 are around 150W average power consumption. They are capable of 4k gaming. Sometimes at full settings, sometimes you need to drop a few settings down and even then the settings can be above console or on par. Of course not all games, AC Unity at 4k is pretty tough but I can do around 30 fps at 3200x1800. Considering many console games dip below 30 often it's really not out of reach.
AMD will need to step up though but PS4 is around 130W. has a APU which roughly looks like a 25-30W Jaguar core and rest is the 7850 ish spec GPU.
Lets not forget that the PS3 launched at around 170w in total. I can see a 150W in total machine doing around 30fps at 4k in existing games. Just have to wait and see how well the 14nm jump will go.
If you want a good example, look at 4870 vs 5870, double the performance at the same power. The recent 28nm jump was a load of rubbish frankly especially the 7000 series from AMD and sadly the PS4 and XO used this family of GPU. Shortly after that Nvidia shown the way with the 750ti at incredibly low power consumption. Knocking a 150W 970/980 down to around a 100-110 is not some quantum leap, it happens all the time and we're only talking about around 50W here.
We don't need aliens to come down and visit, or need 2x 980ti to do 4k or shrink down a $3000 PC into a APU. A 150w GPU from 2014 can do it, Sony MS missed the boat on performance and power.
A shitty AMD cpu can keep a game at 30ish, people posting their 4790k CPUs are not understanding. My shitty i7 930 from 2009 can do 60fps. Many of the crappy A8 A10 and low end FX can keep 30fps on the PC side and all you need is a £240 GPU launched in 2014. Please stop with the silly rig examples.
+rep
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yeah I agree with that. Pushing for 4K is just wasting the hardware resources IMO, especially when the vast majority of TV's are 1080p, and will be for a long time to come.
1080p, 60fps and a big graphics jump is much more useful.
It may be that Sony don't want to be creating 'better games' on the new model. Instead they all play and look exactly the same, with the new model running native 4K, and VR games native 120fps instead of 'reprojected'.
I could understand that reasoning, as it keeps the current PS4 perfectly viable. Otherwise the new model would be a true next gen console.
What Microsoft do will be interesting, I suspect they would be going closer to the 'next gen console' route. Giving that the XB1 is lagging behind, there's more reason for them to focus on graphical improvements.
I have a big secret to tell you. Nvidia prices its products the same way as Apple. Cards don't cost much to be made.
Did I shatter your world?
Even better, look how much individual GPU chips [not the rest of the components] cost. MS and Sony want only those chips [in current case, a single APU]. Also, in console space where Sony/MS purchase million of APUs per month [well, at least Sony is
], they now deal directly with chip factories, not GPU architecture designers. They task AMD with job of creating chip, pay them for that, and then go to any factory they want and order quantities of that chip. For every working chip they pay a royalty fee to AMD [lets say $10]. This gen, analyst assume MS/Sony paid around ~$80-90 for APU at the console launch.In the past it was not always this setup. MS fucked up royally when when they tasked nVidia to provide them with a GPU. Nvidia was responsible for everything, and MS found itself in a situation where they paid entire chip price to nvidia... which did not want to lower prices ever.
I think that both MS and Sony mostly want their current consoles to be 4K compatible. Meaning, able to be connected to 4K60displays, because currently anyone who purchases 4K TV has to settle with TV upscaling [which may or may not be good]. If they already want to switch from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.X and enable their consoles to playback HDR multimedia, that opens them door to plop a new APU in their motherboard. Thankfully, AMD is very versitile and fast, they are known for being able to create chips quickly by taking advantage from their modular design of components. They can mix and match everything they produce [or even modules from other companies].
Yes it does, ever time the fab change to a smaller process they have been able to clock the GPU higher so going from 28nm to 14 or 16nm will also allow them to clock the GPU higher & they are already at 1.18Ghz at 28nm
family_guy
Member
No contract needed. Just get it on the Tmobile jump program or At&t Next. Switch your PS4 out once a year.
mangochutney
Member
Yearly refresh is too much. Can't really see tech improving enough to warrant it, either.
3 years is probably the sweet spot.
If it were me I would mandating a baseline target of 2 revisions old. This essentially means a 6 year 'generation'.
UnwrittenZero
Member
I would hope we get a new motherboard with better built in wifi and faster port for those that want to upgrade to a ssd.
GhostTrick
Banned
No, it doesnt. Smaller process doesnt mean you just double the clockspeed.
If that was the case, why Intel CPU didnt came from 3ghz to 6ghz when they did the 32nm to 22nm to 14nm jump ?
There's a limit in which frequency these architectures can reach, regardless of the process node.
By the way, R7 370x base clock is 1ghz. As for the clock shown on your picture, it remains to be seen and it also doesnt mean you can reach 1.6Ghz on the same architecture just with a smaller process node.
lmao @ people thinking there's the slightest chance of Sony offering a trade-in discount.
Iterative upgrades have been a part of tech culture since the first iPod release... now that consoles have solidified around a common x86 architecture it only makes sense they'd go down the same path.
Iterative upgrades have been a part of tech culture since the first iPod release... now that consoles have solidified around a common x86 architecture it only makes sense they'd go down the same path.
-you don't have to fork over more money!
-your existing ps4 will still be the base for ps4 games!
-this is not a new gen, they have 30m+ userbase on existing ps4 consoles!
-there are only some issues if you're jealous!
If Sony's making a luxury PS4 I hope they stuff a Cell in it and go nuts with BC. It'd be easier to sell my wife on the idea too, since we'd be able to sell or give away one of our PS3s. I still think the base model needs to be supporting PS2 games better, and PS1 games period.
On a side note, it'll be extra hilarious given all the speculation pre-launch if we end up going through a mid-gen hardware revision/upgrade and still don't have stacked memory.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
So if I have this right:
PS4k, Xbox One +, and Nintendo NX will all be roughly the same in terms of power?
if true then this will be The Last Generation, the final 9, The Last Hokage. It's been fun fellas, I'll see you in the funny papers.
PS4k, Xbox One +, and Nintendo NX will all be roughly the same in terms of power?
if true then this will be The Last Generation, the final 9, The Last Hokage. It's been fun fellas, I'll see you in the funny papers.
God I hope not. I want things to move forward, not spend more money to have a console lug around dead tech.
It's not by double the 28nm GPUs are already over 1Ghz & this is not a CPU it's the GPU & they still have room to go up CPUs are becoming more parallel that's why they don't just clock them higher & GPU's are becoming more like CPUs so they benefit from getting higher clocks now.
GhostTrick
Banned
PS4 GPU is clocked at 800mhz. It's double.
GPUs reference design from AMD are 1Ghz yes. 1.05Ghz for the higher clocked ones. That's my point. We didnt see such a huge upgrade from other process nodes. We wont see it here either. That's why GPU manufacturers and CPU manufacturers are pushing more cores instead of higher clocks.