timmyp53
Member
Yeah downsampling is pretty awesome. it would be interesting to see the possible comparisons between dwnsampled images and 4k because dwnsampling does such a damn good job. People might even be hesitant to upgrade their sets.
Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Yeah downsampling is pretty awesome. it would be interesting to see the possible comparisons between dwnsampled images and 4k because dwnsampling does such a damn good job. People might even be hesitant to upgrade their sets.
Anecdotal sure, but I still don't hear the average users thinking of 4k around here. I'd imagine that they are far less than many seem to think in here. Someone probably have TV sales/stats somewhere... Also, I thought most 4k TV sets still got lots of lag for gaming.
The gains they will get aren't worth the risk of waiting just 1-2 years and doing a proper PS5 especially with new PC hardware being around the corner. In my opinion, the transition should be similar to PS1 > PS2 when it was 5 years or PS2 > PS3, but at 5 years instead of 6. The PS2 sold 55+ more million consoles while PS3 was on shelves. Granted, the numbers won't be the same again, but you get the idea.
It's not a bad idea in itself, but these things don't exist in a vacuum. We are getting HBM2 and new AMD CPUs/APUs soon in 2017-2018. Then, shoehorning 4k push with a PS4.5 doesn't seem good enough to me since it will undermine a big selling point of the PS5, which they can just do and release in 1-2 years. I'm sure you will get a lot of hardcore players mad about it as they will have to purchase a new console a wee bit too soon.
Personally, if it means better VR, I'll probably buy it. I plan on making a new PC with the upcoming hardware next year for PC VR and using PS VR to hold me over until then. I will get the exclusives and experiences on both sides next year this way at least.
Obliterator
Member
The userbase wont really be split though. It would still likely be the same blu ray going in either system and the same multi player lobbies. Only difference is one system would play them better
dano1
A Sheep
I'm fine with a new system every 2 or 3 years just need to keep the games compatible like PC. I think waiting 7 years for a new console is a thing of the past!
Releasing a new hardware revision every 3 years just to cater to must-have mentality would be, to me, a mistake in the case of consoles and a further contribution to unhealthy consumerism.
dano1
A Sheep
This.
I don't think you read what I said at all. I gave you a reason why it was a bad idea. :| lol
Pretty sure all this crap from Sony and Microsoft are just fishing expedition...to see market or press reaction... They test each other ! (Check out my fear in last sentence!!!)
If microsoft decide that console now are like PC and decide to fight against steambox, this is the nail in the coffin of xbox as a console. It become a branded PC or XBOX as a gaming service. Good luck to compete with Valve on that one !
If Sony decide to release the PS4k, the need to be clear that it is just for 4k and that No game will ever be released for PS4k only. Any game need to be both released on PS4 and PS4k (worst case scenario 720p for ps4 and 1080p/4K for PS4k). Imagine the treason felling for all the playstation user base. I means, the first real next graphics GAME - Uncharted 4 - is not released yet (The order don't count as it's not really a game!!!), The real next gen GAMEPLAY such as No Man Sky and Dream aren't released either ... Many - A lot - of studio didn't release a single game on this platform yet... There is no way the next console iteration is coming that fast.
Honestly, Sony didn't make a lot of mistake this gen tragically. Will Microsoft ever be able to recover their lost base.
My biggest fear is that their internal analysis tell them that the "real" reason why people switched to PS4 was because the PS4 was perceived as more powerfull than the Xbox One. I really hope that i am wrong because if it is so, MS ans Sony might enter in a fight to release the next "more powerfull" console first...
If microsoft decide that console now are like PC and decide to fight against steambox, this is the nail in the coffin of xbox as a console. It become a branded PC or XBOX as a gaming service. Good luck to compete with Valve on that one !
If Sony decide to release the PS4k, the need to be clear that it is just for 4k and that No game will ever be released for PS4k only. Any game need to be both released on PS4 and PS4k (worst case scenario 720p for ps4 and 1080p/4K for PS4k). Imagine the treason felling for all the playstation user base. I means, the first real next graphics GAME - Uncharted 4 - is not released yet (The order don't count as it's not really a game!!!), The real next gen GAMEPLAY such as No Man Sky and Dream aren't released either ... Many - A lot - of studio didn't release a single game on this platform yet... There is no way the next console iteration is coming that fast.
Honestly, Sony didn't make a lot of mistake this gen tragically. Will Microsoft ever be able to recover their lost base.
My biggest fear is that their internal analysis tell them that the "real" reason why people switched to PS4 was because the PS4 was perceived as more powerfull than the Xbox One. I really hope that i am wrong because if it is so, MS ans Sony might enter in a fight to release the next "more powerfull" console first...
SolidSnakex
Member
Of course part of it is a fear of change. But wasn't that the same argument presented for DRM? People didn't like it because it was a fear of change? Once you make that commitment you can't take it back. And that's something MS has had to learn the hard way. They tried to take it back, but it didn't matter because the negative perception already stuck tot hem.
Yes, technically they'll be able to run the same games. But how long will it last as far as the PS4 running the same games at a decent level? How long before the PS4 versions of games start looking like Shadow of Mordor on the PS3 compared to the 4.5 version? If you give developers much more powerful tech then they're going to take advantage of it, and that's going to inevitably impact the PS4 negatively.
wapplew
Member
To be honest, I'm not fear PS4 games run bad, I fear all future iteration only run PS4 game.
Obliterator
Member
I think one thing people are forgetting is PC gaming is growing exponentially. And no not just F2P stuff, look at the recent forcasts on high end GPUs. Its becoming enormous. And PCs are pulling away from consoles faster than ever. There will be GPUs out by the end of 2016 that just dwarf current gen. Really there already are.
A refresh every 3 years could at least keep consoles "kind of" current and in the same ballpark
A refresh every 3 years could at least keep consoles "kind of" current and in the same ballpark
How is being "kind of" in the ballpark going to stop PC from overtaking consoles though
timmyp53
Member
Conversely, another situation that could arise is devs won't take advantage of the enhanced specs and maintain the original as the lead platform, thus nullifying the point of having more powerful hardware beyond better framerate, such as the case is with the N3DS.
Obliterator
Member
It may slow it if even a little. Console manufacturers need to be doing anything they can to combat that to be honest if they want to stay in the hardware business. Its a real thing. Enthusiast grade GPUs doubled YoY in 2015 alone. Thats a big deal
wapplew
Member
PC will always ahead, they are ahead now, but console type games still sold the best on console.
It doesn't mater how far away PC power, the fact is, PC games evolve when console evolve.
Sure, gt1080 will be so powerful dwarf current gen, but current gen install base dwarf your gt1080, dev will continue to make game for weak ass hardware and all your power only give you fancy effect/frame rate/resolution.
Obliterator
Member
Enthusiast GPU sales DOUBLED YoY in 2015 alone. PC is surging right now and is a very real threat to consoles over the next 10 years
Psychological Intellect
Banned
embrace the iterative console future solidesankex
Sounds like the big three will have to pack it up then. The power game is just always going to be on the PCs side and even a yearly console refresh would do more harm than good.
bitbydeath
Member
Benefits for Sony are giving people reason to invest in 4K TVs and movies. (And possibly being able to push VR further).
Benefits for the consumer are simply having better quality stuff.
Yeah.. good luck with that.
I may be a hardcore electronics nut and collector who has bought numerous gadgets and CEs that I didn't need, but at least I'm self-aware!
Consoles' biggest competitor is actually not PC, but mobile. If consoles want to stay relevant vs PCs, they should find a way to maintain the longevity value they've come to be associated with, as that's one of the biggest draws of owning a console. Refreshing the hardware in just a few years for each cycle isn't the right answer (IMO).
Obliterator
Member
I mean its not a theory we have the numbers. Consoles face an attack from 2 sides, both mobile and PC are eating into console market share. As awesome as PS4 is doing dedicated hardware as a whole is shrinking
SolidSnakex
Member
But why would this be of a concern to Sony? The PS4 is selling ahead of the PS2 currently, and the PS4 this year is selling better than it did last year. I'd say that's a clear message that they aren't being negatively impacted by any rise in PC gaming.
The best case scenario is probably the least likely one, which would be that they'd take PS4 games and simply improve the framerate and resolution as opposed to building them as PS4.5 games and attempting to downscale them to the PS4. Because that's not going to work for long.
embrace the iterative console future solidesankex
If it's real then i'll definitely get it. But I won't get the PSVR. And how many will take the same route? As many others have said, Sony will essentially kill the PSVR with this move. Which is mindblowing given that after GDC it seems like many feel that it has the most potential for mainstream success.
The explanation is: this is happening. Thus, times have changed.
It's got too much weight behind it to just be a light rumor at this point.
Back in the day you used to buy a console to be confident you were locked in to 5+ years of constant hardware, but not anymore. The market is different and both Sony and MS are responding. Times have changed.
If you don't like it, I'm sure you can keep playing on the older systems for a while, or check out what Nintendo has to offer with the NX.
But this is definitely going to happen, so a lot of those old fashioned reasons for buying a console are out the window.
I'd tell you to vote with your wallet, but with the way all of the expensive VR headsets are selling and the money nvidia is making with high end graphics cards, I don't think it would do anything. Clearly this is something the market wants.
It's a direct response to all the DF threads where people count pixels and frame rates and hold them up as an example of why their console of choice is the best. Fans start putting that much weight in those attributes and the people who make these machines will make bigger machines that push those numbers higher.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
They should have the freedom to adapt to market changes, things like VR or 4k, to reasonable a degree, like supporting the original sku with an optional upgraded sku.
The market has already changed, consoles are built for day one profitability now, a mid-life revision might be how these companies keep their consoles relevant for another few years.
There is a lot of entitlement and unrealistic expectation for what a console should be in this thread... how realistic is it to expect a $399 console to last for 5-7 years now that we've ditched the recoup later/exotic powerhouse model?
Spoiler: It's not.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Hyrule Warriors Legend will run poorly on the older 3DS, with or without New 3DS.
Take a look at MGS3D if you want a "without New3DS" scenario.
Over the holidays 4K TVs & Amazon FireTV was the buzz words i was hearing when my family was around. Some might not be sure what 4K actually is but now that it's the big talk people will buy it just to say they have it (Sad I know but even my mom was asking about 4K TV after everyone kept talking about them) this is the world we live in & now people want 4K TVs even though they don't have much to watch in 4K yet but 2016 is a big year for 4K & PS4K will help fill the void of not having much 4K content.
I think PS4 is going to have a 10 year life cycle & it will be at least 2022 before we see a PS5.
The HD Twins are doing much better that they did last gen. Nintendo was also never a part of this race, so how well they do or don't do has no effect on the 13-35 demographic who enjoy the ease of pick up and play games like madden/cod/fifa etc from the comfort of their couch and large screens for a lot less that it would cost them to own a PC. Not to mention.. a lot less tinkering.
I don't even.. I think this thread is bad for GAF.
Napalm_Frank
Member
All they need to do is bundle Crash Bandicoot 4(k) with this and it will fly off the shelves.
Obliterator
Member
I mean this is a really solid and excellent post.
wapplew
Member
I think he meant PS4, PS4.5, PS4.8 etc as a whole last 10 years.
Graphics Horse
Member
Now I'm wondering if I've missed any PS4K(nack) jokes
Napalm_Frank
Member
As far as I know there are no patch fees this gen.
Maybe they are toying with the idea of treating them as a cellphone lifecycle. You know how stupid people can get with the Iphones every year. Maybe they want to do the same thing the PS brand.
IM MEAN NINTENDO WII AND WII U DIDNT WORK SO WELL.
I know poor marketing and all, but the console market its just a different beast.
My 2 cents..
IM MEAN NINTENDO WII AND WII U DIDNT WORK SO WELL.
I know poor marketing and all, but the console market its just a different beast.
My 2 cents..
You appear to be assuming I'm in denial about whether this is occurring. Rather, I'm expressing my thoughts about why I think it's a bad idea and questioning the requirement for a much shorter cycle. Also, the hardcore like us only account for a small percentage of console owners. Pixel counting in Digital Foundry threads is, I can safely guess, not of primary concern to the manufacturers. If PS4K isn't just a one-off thing to promote 4K adoption but is instead a model for future console releases to follow, I want to know why that is and how they think it's going to keep consoles relevant, because I'm not seeing it. In an arms race PC will always win, full stop, and new phones/tablets release yearly, a pace that consoles can't keep up with unless they also turn to a yearly refresh.
Let's add that to the list of things People Not Onboard With Iterations have had said about them: "Get with the times", "You'll come around", "You're just resistant to change!", "You won't REALLY go to PC!", and now "You're entitled!". Lol
wapplew
Member
Well, people upgrade their phones for many reason, better camera, better style, better screen, new feature or old phones dying. Better performance of their app usually not the first thing.
Higher performance console have none of those factor, it's only play your game better.
It can't replicate the excitement of shinny new phones.
xaosslug
Member
lbr, what tanked the WiiU was the 180 control scheme, and hefty pricetag.
Obliterator
Member
I dont agree with the entitlement part there but what they said about the reality of the current market and the machines we have for current gen is spot on
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
What does the Wii and Wii U has got to do with anything? Wii is the winner of last gen console gaming and one of the best selling consoles in history.
I don't begrudge any of the big three for trying to stay alive. It's what they do. All I can do is give my opinion on what I think of their moves. I don't have an answer for how to keep consoles relevant vs an increasingly accessible PC market and the massive explosion of mobile gaming thanks to worldwide proliferation of smartphones. I wonder if anyone truly does. I just don't think a 3 year cycle vs 5 is going to help that.
breadtruck
Member
Reading through the comments leaves me a bit surprised at how many people are okay with this. Especially when the game releases are so anemic on consoles.
But I suppose many of you have been "primed" for this with the various 3DS versions.
I love my PC, but I dont upgrade it very often. I build it big the first time, then I upgrade various parts once in its lifetime, then I build a new one after the upgraded parts have reached their end-of-useful-life.
I have zero interest in doing this with a console. It goes against everything I feel the console "stands for" compared to a PC. Ill definitely stick to PC for future generations if this becomes the reality.
But I suppose many of you have been "primed" for this with the various 3DS versions.
I love my PC, but I dont upgrade it very often. I build it big the first time, then I upgrade various parts once in its lifetime, then I build a new one after the upgraded parts have reached their end-of-useful-life.
I have zero interest in doing this with a console. It goes against everything I feel the console "stands for" compared to a PC. Ill definitely stick to PC for future generations if this becomes the reality.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
You are holding a $399 "profitable on day one" console to the warm comfortable nostalgia of exotic powerhouse consoles of yesteryear, that isn't realistic, especially in the face of how Value is encroaching on the traditional console space.
The front half of tradition model changed and we all accepted it, mid-life revisions might be the second half of how this new model has to play out in order for console makers to keep things like Steamboxes at bay. Ultimately, if they continue to fully support the original sku, there is no real damage past hurt feelings over unrealistic expectations.
timmyp53
Member
For some reason I was under the impression that that only applied to Indie Developers.