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[thefro]

A more marginal upgrade makes a lot more sense for VR, to stream/play 4K video, to bump up framerates, and to counter NX/XB1.5 if they are marginally more powerful than the PS4.

AMD doesn't have the chips to do true 4K games in a PS4 form-factor at this point at any sort of reasonable price (if at all).

 

[Draft]

Sony realizes this is the last console generation so it needs to last 10 or more years. I expect more ps4 upgrades in the future.

 

[CosmicQueso]

1. The console sales through-output will increase (thanks to a core group of gamers always buying new $399-499 console iterations every three years).
2. Consoles will stay more current as technology develops, this could likely increase their market size.
3. The player base is a constant stable population, it doesn't get reset to 0. Enormous benefit to expensive gaming projects. More stability for everyone including gamers.
4. One-off benefit of pushing 4K content right-now.
5. Peripherals like PSVR will have separate cycles from that off console iterations!

Nice summary.

 

[RK128]

If it was literally just a PS4 Slim with an ability to output 4K video or a hardware scaler that could upscale 1080p output to 4K, I don't think they would need to inform developers at GDC. It'd be irrelevant to them.

Presumably there's at least some kind of hardware upgrade they need to be aware of.

The most likely case is informing them that the PS VR breakout box will be inside PS4 units now and that they have a slightly more powerful GPU/CPU to work with.

.....I personally hope that is the case at least.

 

[kriskrosbbk]

As it is of today :
PS3 -720p 30fps
PS4 -1080p 30fps
What I really want is not :
PS4K - 4K 30fps,but 1080p with steady 60fps

Looking forward.

 

[FATALITY]

So pretty much confirms its a hardware revision to integrate the PSVR breakout box and adherence to 4K media playback rather than for 4K gaming.

no

 

[omonimo]

A more marginal upgrade makes a lot more sense for VR, to stream/play 4K video, to bump up framerates, and to counter NX/XB1.5 if they are marginally more powerful than the PS4.

AMD doesn't have the chips to do true 4K games in a PS4 form-factor at this point at any sort of reasonable price (if at all).

I don't know what people smoke to think NX will be powerful...

 

[Markoman]

Could somebody please explain the business upside of this.

The way I understand it console makers makes the most money on hardware at the tail end of a console cycle since the components at that time is old and therefore cheap.

Secondly, I also I though that console makers earn the most profit on the software. That should be even more true this gen because of digital sales.

Because of these 2 points I really do not understand why Sony, the market leader, made this decision.

If you ask me, all the latest talk about hardware upgrades is nothing more than moving pawns on a chess board atm. Like 've already said in the other thread:
NX is comming and both Sony + MS don't know what it will be and what impact it may have on the market. MS (in sandwich position) started the upgrade talk and Sony is now in a position where they are showing first signs that they are willing to react accordingly. Plus, they need a stronger machine asap to push VR more.

You are absolutely right, I don't see any of this increasing the overall console market. It just means more costs for devs, pubs and plattform holders. BUT, what I'm trying to say, if one of the three starts something like this, the others will have to follow. It's pretty much Poker time right now.

 

[Mac@NeoGAF]

I don't know what people smoke to think NX will be powerful...

I think we all know that the NX will basically be around Xbox One performance wise.

 

[jeffram]

This article is poorly written. They have some information, but then there's a lot of conjecture built in. I wish they would have clearly outlined the facts.

It just seems like a lot of guess work on their part with no real technical ground work or justification. They knew this would be big news yet put very little effort in.

 

[Darryl M R]

Sounds like I need to get a 4k TV next Christmas.

 

[Movalpolos]

If it was literally just a PS4 Slim with an ability to output 4K video or a hardware scaler that could upscale 1080p output to 4K, I don't think they would need to inform developers at GDC. It'd be irrelevant to them.

Presumably there's at least some kind of hardware upgrade they need to be aware of.

Why wouldn't they inform developers if there is a new SKU planned?
You don't think devs were informed about PS2 or PS3 slim?

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

If this has an updated wifi chip, then I might buy it. I don't care for the rest tbh

 

[deadduck]

4K video, 4k XMB, 4k apps, 1080p 60fps games and smoother VR.

I'd buy that.

 

[OrochiJR]

I'm not an expert on programming, but isn't one of the good points that consoles have over PCs that a game can be optimized specifically for one hardware configuration (whereas on PCs it has to run on a variety of rigs)? The release of console revisions with significant hardware changes would negate this point pretty much.

I also feel kinda screwed personally as I finally completed my collection of current gen consoles in December with purchasing a PS4 (for SFV, how that turned out is a different story...) and now they want me to buy an updated console later this year? Well good luck with promoting that idea to the average consumer.

I have seen people comparing this development to the revisions of smartphones, but those combine many daily (more or less) "necessary" functions like phones, chats, convenience apps and music, things people need in everyday life. People buy consoles for games, and games are not something most people deem as necessary as a smartphone.

If Sony and MS think their consoles are not powerful enough as is, they could try securing more exclusives that really make the most out of the hardware (last gen games like The Last of Us and Beyond: Two Souls come to mind, games which looked phenomenal despite being on a relatively dated hardware) or start getting ready for developing a proper PS5 or Xbox One Two and pumping those full with state of the art hardware at launch in two years.

 

[Detective]

lol. Smart name right there, regular Jimmy will go out and buy the console thinking its real 4K gaming hardware.

on the other hand this GEN needs a revision. Upgraded Hardware is a must. Maybe finally they could deliver on their promise. " 1080p 60fps " Every game.

 

[Nirolak]

Why wouldn't they inform developers if there is a new SKU planned?
You don't think devs were informed about PS2 or PS3 slim?

Proposal: If this was the same scenario, why didn't we have new console rumors every time they were informed of hardware revisions in the past?

It's not like those things didn't leak constantly.

 

[Roshin]

I think we all know that the NX will basically be around Xbox One performance wise.

We know nothing about that at all.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

1. The console sales through-output will increase (thanks to a core group of gamers always buying new $399-499 console iterations every three years).
2. Consoles will stay more current as technology develops, this could likely increase their market size.
3. The player base is a constant stable population, it doesn't get reset to 0. Enormous benefit to expensive gaming projects. More stability for everyone including gamers.
4. One-off benefit of pushing 4K content right-now.
5. Peripherals like PSVR will have separate cycles from that off console iterations!

Yeah these are all good points. I think this will be a good move in the long run. Console generations are kind of stupid at this point in time. 20 years ago yeah they made sense. The Xbox one and PS4 will actually be pretty dated by 2020. Best keep up with current tech shortly after it becomes available .

 

[sixteen-bit]

PS4K is a tight name tbh

 

[OBias]

This seems like such a weird product to make.

Few people own 4K TV's because most television or even blu-rays are in 1080p. Consoles have only been in 1080p thus far. And 4K is still crazy expensive.

That's WHY Sony could be making PS4.5 - to drive the demand for their 4K TV. The economies of scale could in turn bring the prices of 4K TV down eventually.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

Honestly, lots of potential pit falls to this. For example, if differences go beyond resolution, say to frames rates and graphical effects too, that just doesn't seem like it'd be fair in competitive environments where such things can make more of a difference. Eg players having a gameplay advantage because of a hardware advantage.

Then with the whole VR thing. Right now the advantage of PSVR is its cheaper than the competition, both the headset and the system. If they sell a more powerful but expensive console, just to play the same not that amazing looking games as the PS4, but in 4K at a more expensive cost, surely in terms of consumer mindset it'll start diminishing the price difference between PS4 VR packages and PC VR packages, like Oculus for example? I mean, PS4K VR games are still going to have to run on the PS4, so it's not like they'll be super state of the art. If it's that much more expensive, it may almost start making Oculus or Vive plus a half decent PC rig, sound more viable.

Agreed. Both the PS4K and the XB1.5 sound like great ways to fragment the market and it goes against what many have been saying was the saving grace of console development over PC development: a single fixed hardware target.

When Xbox has multiple tiers and Playstation has multiple tiers, the line separating them from PC is even more blurred. You only have exclusives left and if God of War IV is demoed with eyebending graphics with a little *All PS4K in-game footage* at the bottom, tables will be flipped. Developers will have even MORE targets to hit now, with Xbox, Playstation, PC and even possibly NX. If I were to be a doomsdayer, I'd say these moves would just hasten the crash of the AAA market.

Y'all can't see it, but the early adapters become the 2nd-class citizens. That's the only way for it to work. I don't see the point personally, of having a PC, mid-gen PS4K, and a mid-gen XB1.5. That's way the hell too much repetition.

 

[Zombie James]

Late 2017 would be four years after the PS4 launched. That's not "mid-generation", that's within the range of the traditional console cycle. Last generation's rediculous 8yr cycle was the exception, not the rule.

 

[ricen-beans]

I just want a more powerful remote play chip. So it can be 99% flawless when on the same network. Of course that means a better wifi chip as well.

 

[dose]

No.

All games for the next many years will release as PS4 games.
These games will include higher graphical presets & hardware tuning for owners of PS4K.

Source?
Sorry, but if that does happen that *is* splitting the userbase, no matter which way you spin it.

 

[Zedox]

Agreed. Both the PS4K and the XB1.5 sound like great ways to fragment the market and EXACTLY what many have been saying was the saving grace of console development over PC development:a single hardware target.

When Xbox has multiple tiers and Playstation has multiple tiers, the line separating them from PC is even more blurred. You only have exclusives left and if God of War IV is demoed with eyebending graphics with a little *All PS4K in-game footage* at the bottom, tables will be flipped.

Y'all can't see it, but the early adapters become the 2nd-class citizens. That's the only way for it to work. I don't see the point personally, of having a PC, mid-gen PS4K, and a mid-gen XB1.5. That's way the hell too much repetition.

This has always been the case in tech. This is nothing different. Launch consoles get iterated overtime and early adopters are with the old version of it. Nothing has changed in that mindset.

 

[Kael]

Agreed. Both the PS4K and the XB1.5 sound like great ways to fragment the market and EXACTLY what many have been saying was the saving grace of console development over PC development:a single hardware target.

When Xbox has multiple tiers and Playstation has multiple tiers, the line separating them from PC is even more blurred. You only have exclusives left and if God of War IV is demoed with eyebending graphics with a little *All PS4K in-game footage* at the bottom, tables will be flipped.

Y'all can't see it, but the early adapters become the 2nd-class citizens. That's the only way for it to work. I don't see the point personally, of having a PC, mid-gen PS4K, and a mid-gen XB1.5. That's way the hell too much repetition.

I am not sure how it fragments the market, at least not what MS is doing. I would think they have the advantage with their Universal thing since it will probably take no effort for original xbox one games to run on it and be able to use PC settings to run on the newer model with locked settings for the older. As long as people can buy any game and run on both it should be fine.

Sony might have a harder time.

 

[potatohead]

It's totally the PS4 Slim just with 4K video output. That's it.

 

[maniac-kun]

Source?
Sorry, but if that does happen that *is* splitting the userbase, no matter which way you spin it.

Its not splitting it. You still can play with the other guys that have the older model.

 

[gofreak]

If it was literally just a PS4 Slim with an ability to output 4K video or a hardware scaler that could upscale 1080p output to 4K, I don't think they would need to inform developers at GDC. It'd be irrelevant to them.

Presumably there's at least some kind of hardware upgrade they need to be aware of.

I think some are taking a very either/or approach to this.

EITHER it's a machine that can run all PS4 games at 4K OR it's a PS4 slim with 4K media capabilities.

It doesn't sound like either. It sounds like an enhanced PS4 with an extra GPU budget that might in some less common cases allow for 4K rendering but more typically would enhance resolution less dramatically, or anti-aliasing, framerate, effects... As always it'd be up to devs to spend the performance budget as they wish.

 

[mrklaw]

If it has a UHD drive I'd probably jump. It would also get me looking seriously at 4K TVs, if the UHD specs have settled down now.

The 'limited' extra performance makes sense. Maybe it'll be supported only by a handful of games (and probably sony first party) but thats ok providing the price is ok.

 

[Bots are better than you]

From those three options posted earlier ... the only option i don't see sparking a controversy is the option with 4K output only for media, UHD Bluray, etc.

Everything else could backfire in an ugly way. Even if it's just an update that has a slightly better performance compared to the normal PS4.

This is not a handheld, where consumers are "used" to mid-gen hardware updates, and even with handhelds, making something that's better than what the majority of consumers already have and paid good money for, is something like a double-edged sword.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

This has always been the case in tech. This is nothing different. Launch consoles get iterated overtime and early adopters are with the old version of it. Nothing has changed in that mindset.

Yes, iterations, of course. Option #1 and #2 aren't iterations though, Z.

My point about 2nd class citizens was the attack line always used by console defenders.

"If you don't have the best, top of the line tech on PC, then games don't look that much better than on console."

"Consoles' fixed hardware places everyone on equal ground, so we don't have to worry about whether or not our laptop can run GTAV!"

We've both seen these arguments before. Now we have people arguing effectively for the features that they decried on PC. It's madness. If this is the way of the future, so be it. But I foresee trouble. There's going to be a strain somewhere, somethings got to give. You can't have all this repetition in a market successfully.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

I think we all know that the NX will basically be around Xbox One performance wise.

If they are releasing this year I am not 100% sure it will even get to Xbox One's level.

 

[RecRoulette]

No.

All games for the next many years will release as PS4 games.
These games will include higher graphical presets & hardware tuning for owners of PS4K.

What incentive would devs have to spend time adding those options? Especially if the percentage of people with the 4K is small compared to the rest of the people with PS4s.

 

[jeffram]

Source?
Sorry, but if that does happen that *is* splitting the userbase, no matter which way you spin it.

Because then it would be called a ps5, and Sony is not stupid

how would it still be splitting the user base any more than a slim model? Is upgrading the wifi splitting the user base?

 

[Zojirushi]

Late 2017 would be four years after the PS4 launched. That's not "mid-generation", that's within the range of the traditional console cycle. Last generation's rediculous 8yr cycle was the exception, not the rule.

True but I think most people expected/predicted (even) longer cycles for future consoles.

 

[MilesTeg]

The upgraded PS4 is for VR and 4K media, as that translated interview mentions that 4K Blu Ray is triple layer disc while PS4 only reads dual layer. Sounds like it needs a new optical drive (?)

Games running better on 1080p tv is basically a nice side effect. The power is needed for VR as head tracking etc plus 60 fps essentially maxes out the PS4 causing devs to be forced to reduce graphics quality below what is desired.

I'm also thinking 16gb of RAM

I think the price will be $499

I'm expecting Sony to continue to sell vanilla PS4, I think there will be a slim model with a price cut along side PS4K.

 

[jetsetnickradio]

If this thing has SATA 3 I'm in and I don't even own a 4K TV.

 

[jeffram]

What incentive would devs have to spend time adding those options? Especially if the percentage of people with the 4K is small compared to the rest of the people with PS4s.

Most of those portions already exist in the pc sku. It will also allow them to create promotional material in higher spec

 

[nib95]

Because then it would be called a ps5, and Sony is not stupid

how would it still be splitting the user base any more than a slim model? Is upgrading the wifi splitting the user base?

A slim model does exactly the same hardware wise, only it's external appearance changes. If this PS4K model is anything more than just a PS4 with 4K blu-ray options, it absolutely splits the user base up, because the internal hardware and performance becomes fundamentally different.

 

[mario_O]

Coming in October? If it's true they should release the new console before PSVR, not at the same time. I have a feeling this revision is coming sooner.

 

[Movalpolos]

Proposal: If this was the same scenario, why didn't we have new console rumors every time they were informed of hardware revisions in the past?

It's not like those things didn't leak constantly.

Fair point. I still think there was some miscommunication of the info.
It just doesn't seem realistic to me that there would be any hardware iteration of the significance of running 4K native games this early on. That's the part of the rumor that just gets my alarm ringing.

 

[kennyamr]

so this is happening, huh?
The new "PS4S" a la Apple.
A refresh every 3 years instead of waiting 6 for new consoles.

I just hope it doesn't delay games currently in production.
Devs may want to enhance their games for this new PS4 version so it may take them a few extra months to develop. looking at you, FFXV.

BTW, I really don't mind 3-year console cycles, I just want them to release way more good games during those 3 years than what they are currently doing.

 

[Kezen]

A slim model does exactly the same hardware wise, only it's external appearance changes. If this PS4K model is anything more than just a PS4 with 4K blu-ray options, it absolutely splits the user base up, because the internal hardware and performance becomes fundamentally different.

Are you against progress ?

 

[BKK]

If PS4K is for media playback and possibly an upscaler for 4K displays I see no issue with this. My response was to a PS4 that would actually be something like a half step to PS5.

Why would they be showing it off to devs if it was just for media playback and upscaling? Clearly it must have some benefits for games too.

Anyway, even though AAA 3D titles @ 4K may not be practical I'm sure that there are lots of 2D games which would be able to run @4K.

 

[Deft Beck]

Who has a 4K TV? Where is the 4K home video and streaming content?

Who is this device for?

 

[jeffram]

A slim model does exactly the same hardware wise, only it's external appearance changes. If this PS4K model is anything more than just a PS4 with 4K blu-ray options, it absolutely splits the user base up, because the internal hardware and performance becomes fundamentally different.

But it's the same user base. They will buy the same disk, play on the same OS and play on the same network. There machines will have different spec but owners will be in the same user base. There is a distinction, but people are over reacting saying the user base is split. If we have the same PCs, and I upgrade my ram, are we still not in the of userbase group?

 

[dgrdsv]

It's totally the PS4 Slim just with 4K video output. That's it.

I can see them wanting to add the VR processing box to the base unit APU which would lower the production costs for the VR model considerably. But yeah, I'm not expecting any performance changes in games. A BD4K + integration of VR h/w into APU sounds quite possible.

 

[nib95]

Are you against progress ?

What kind a stupid question is this?

I'm against splitting up consumer bases and muddying development and optimisation priorities, as well as diminishing pre-existing consumer value proposition. If they want to release hardware that's actually notably more powerful, they should just wait a few more years and release the PS5.