Batman > Superman: Dawn of Justice |OT| Enter the Knightmare
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I had low expectations and was still disappointed.
Awful. The opening was pretty much the only thing I outright enjoyed. Then the first half of the movie is a bore, and the second half of the movie is a confused mess. I only finished watching it about 45 minutes ago, and that second half is already dissolving in my memory - there's barely a coherence to how it unfolds.
Awful. The opening was pretty much the only thing I outright enjoyed. Then the first half of the movie is a bore, and the second half of the movie is a confused mess. I only finished watching it about 45 minutes ago, and that second half is already dissolving in my memory - there's barely a coherence to how it unfolds.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
People are allowed to like things
Primethius
Banned
The one Batman fight in the warehouse was pretty good. But agreed otherwise. Only a 3-4 scenes in the entire film I actually enjoyed.
People are allowed to like bad things.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Wow, condescend harder, bro.
Had a night to sit on it.
The movie is probably a 6/10 for me. Probably 6.5/10.
First off though, I have a huge problem with some of the criticisms leveled at the movie, particularly towards Superman and Batman's characters. This movie, much more so than Man of Steel, gave us a Superman for the modern world. He is truly heroic, yet shoulders the burden of people's expectations, worship and hate all at the same time. The montage of Superman set to the news broadcasts was one of my favorite moments in the film (very Watchmen in execution). The courtroom scene
To see reviews where people are calling out Superman's character as "unheroic" or that Snyder hates Superman...is baffling to me.
Batman...the criticisms regarding the
....a mountain made of out of a mole hill. Nothing Batfleck does in this movie is any worse than KeatonMan or BaleMan, and if anything there is more justification here. Overall I think benaffleck proved to be by far the best Bruce Wayne we have seen on screen, and his Batman really shined, even though there is still room for him to grow. Also Iron GOAT Alfred.
The biggest problem of the movie is by far the editing, pacing and flow of the movie. The entire first 90 minutes is just scene after scene, rushing to build up the plot. Scenes often end with little to no point, as if there is more to it, but the film just has to move on. It's a total mess and can leave viewers confused and lost. Even the ending felt a bit haphazard, going back and forth, it felt a bit like how Return of the King did back when it first came out when you thought the movie was going to end at several points.
Problem two, and this is not a surprise considering my feeling on movies like Iron Man 2...the Justice League teases and tie-ins...are a complete waste. The movie comes to a complete standstill for no reason. Why are we watching Wonder Woman looking at....right as we are anticipating the Superman/Batman fight? It's nonsense.
Even the whole Knightmare sequence...visually appealing? yes. Batman in a duster? more! But...it adds nothing to the movie AT ALL. It isn't the lynchpin by which Bruce develops more hate and paranoia for Superman, the movie has already established Batman's origin for his fear and hate of him. It's just superfluous. They could literally remove everything having to do with the Knightmare scene and any Justice League teases, and the movie would only benefit.
Wonder Woman...her character itself was fine, and I think Gal Gadot did a great job with the scenes she had with Bruce, and action wise she looked awesome. Got a huge reaction from the theater. I think her role is fine as it is was but needlessly bogged down with some of the Justice League teasing.
Whatever it is that Jesse Eisenberg was doing with Lex...I was down with. Some kind of coked out silicon valley holier than though genius. It doesn't work for everybody but I dug it.
I could go on, but there's just a lot to digest and talk about with the movie. Ultimately I'm a big fan of what they did with the characters in this film. All criticisms I read about Snyder "hating" the heroes is total and utter fucking nonsense. What brings this movie down is the needless Justice League shoehorning and the nonsense editing and pacing which makes the story seem drawn out, yet thin at the same time
I think 6-6.5/10 is very fair (Man of Steel is a solid 7 to me), the film has fundamental problems in the actual way it is made, but I do think there is a large chance for improvement with the director's cut. 30 minutes can add a lot and depending on what is edited in back where, could fix a lot of issues, already sounds like there are several scenes like more of Clark as a journalist which I want to see. So we'll see I guess.
The movie is probably a 6/10 for me. Probably 6.5/10.
First off though, I have a huge problem with some of the criticisms leveled at the movie, particularly towards Superman and Batman's characters. This movie, much more so than Man of Steel, gave us a Superman for the modern world. He is truly heroic, yet shoulders the burden of people's expectations, worship and hate all at the same time. The montage of Superman set to the news broadcasts was one of my favorite moments in the film (very Watchmen in execution). The courtroom scene
with Superman surrounded by fire and death, Cavill isn't the greatest actor in this film, but he has this look in this scene, almost as if he was about to cry, that really got to me and said it all, like this guy can't take that he couldn't prevent this
Batman...the criticisms regarding the
...killings....
The biggest problem of the movie is by far the editing, pacing and flow of the movie. The entire first 90 minutes is just scene after scene, rushing to build up the plot. Scenes often end with little to no point, as if there is more to it, but the film just has to move on. It's a total mess and can leave viewers confused and lost. Even the ending felt a bit haphazard, going back and forth, it felt a bit like how Return of the King did back when it first came out when you thought the movie was going to end at several points.
Problem two, and this is not a surprise considering my feeling on movies like Iron Man 2...the Justice League teases and tie-ins...are a complete waste. The movie comes to a complete standstill for no reason. Why are we watching Wonder Woman looking at....right as we are anticipating the Superman/Batman fight? It's nonsense.
Even the whole Knightmare sequence...visually appealing? yes. Batman in a duster? more! But...it adds nothing to the movie AT ALL. It isn't the lynchpin by which Bruce develops more hate and paranoia for Superman, the movie has already established Batman's origin for his fear and hate of him. It's just superfluous. They could literally remove everything having to do with the Knightmare scene and any Justice League teases, and the movie would only benefit.
Wonder Woman...her character itself was fine, and I think Gal Gadot did a great job with the scenes she had with Bruce, and action wise she looked awesome. Got a huge reaction from the theater. I think her role is fine as it is was but needlessly bogged down with some of the Justice League teasing.
Whatever it is that Jesse Eisenberg was doing with Lex...I was down with. Some kind of coked out silicon valley holier than though genius. It doesn't work for everybody but I dug it.
I could go on, but there's just a lot to digest and talk about with the movie. Ultimately I'm a big fan of what they did with the characters in this film. All criticisms I read about Snyder "hating" the heroes is total and utter fucking nonsense. What brings this movie down is the needless Justice League shoehorning and the nonsense editing and pacing which makes the story seem drawn out, yet thin at the same time
I think 6-6.5/10 is very fair (Man of Steel is a solid 7 to me), the film has fundamental problems in the actual way it is made, but I do think there is a large chance for improvement with the director's cut. 30 minutes can add a lot and depending on what is edited in back where, could fix a lot of issues, already sounds like there are several scenes like more of Clark as a journalist which I want to see. So we'll see I guess.
The_Hitcher89
Member
'Hill to die on'
The most poorly used phrase on the internet, surely. We each have infinite hills to fight on.
The most poorly used phrase on the internet, surely. We each have infinite hills to fight on.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I've seen it twice, didn't improve on the second viewing. It somehow has too much story, and too little, and it just collapses under the weight of itself. Batfleck is good though.
It's not bad. It's just really average.
BronsonLee
Member
They're called boobs!
I keep coming back to how they shoehorn in the Justice League character previews at the worst possible time. Everything is moving forward and then things just grind to a halt while
Wonder Woman reads her email and watches videos.
Yes, it is horrible.
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
I feel the same, it should have been earlier in the film, but I'm struggling trying to find a place to put it.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
I have a few complaints, but I overall I liked it. Looking forward to wherever they take it next.
Let that note of minor positivity be drowned out in a sea of lols.
Let that note of minor positivity be drowned out in a sea of lols.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Honestly, pacing wise, I think that the only place for it is as a stinger. It didn't at all relate to the plot, not convincingly at any rate. In that sense, the Knightmare is arguably smoother. It seems to tie in to at least some of the stuff surrounding Batman's fear of Superman.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Honestly, what compelled them
I'm even more interested to see the directors cut on blu ray now though, for what its worth.
for the justice league set ups? Fucking CCTV footage, are you kidding me?
I'm even more interested to see the directors cut on blu ray now though, for what its worth.
I found the set-up for the Justice League hilariously laughable. It was literally just a montage of trailers inelegantly shoved in there. The film has its good moments, but the JL stuff felt like a literal last-minute addition, and I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
WadiumArcadium
Member
The JL stuff was definitely forced. I did love the Knightmare scene though, even if it didn't really need to be in there either.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I guess I can maybe see that for the first two, but that last one was NOT trailer material. That was some heavy shit.
Don't know what thread you're reading.
But a lot of people here actually liked the movie (or thought it was ok), despite what critics say.
I found the idea that these folders with the metahuman data would also feature the studio's own direct branding of the characters (the WW symbol for Wonder Woman for example) slightly baffling.
Like, I know that Batman's bat signal is linked to the character both in and outside his own universe (so to speak) but it still felt a little forced to me.
When they said they were doing cameos I didn't even imagine that's how lazily they'd do them. I expected
name drops, maybe cuts to familiar looking characters watching events unfold on televisions, but the movie just goes "Here are the logos and here are the video clips".
What shite.
That is literally what is assumed that they would do.
It would make sense to have Cyborg, fully 'built' so to speak, see the events unfold on the TV/Internet, which he is constantly monitoring, and we'd see his reaction as a cut away.
It would have made more sense than the fucking horror show we got instead. Yikes, that scene was fucking horrible.
Kinda wish I could've stopped myself from reading the spoiler, but that is incredibly lazy. Like, laughably lazy.
I woulda figured thatThat is literally what is assumed that they would do.It would make sense to have Cyborg, fully 'built' so to speak, see the events unfold on the TV/Internet, which he is constantly monitoring, and we'd see his reaction as a cut away.
It would have made more sense than the fucking horror show we got instead. Yikes, that scene was fucking horrible.
Cyborg would have been a character in the movie who gets blown the fuck up so you put two and two together
PowderedToast
Junior Member
so poorly structured it defies belief. horrible, horrible script
nothing makes sense. none of the scenes feel motivated or justified. the film just jumps around without any rhythm. the themes they try to explore are fascinating and relevant but the film never finds any kind of focus. superman was so fucked in this film. he has no arc.
what the fuck happened
nothing makes sense. none of the scenes feel motivated or justified. the film just jumps around without any rhythm. the themes they try to explore are fascinating and relevant but the film never finds any kind of focus. superman was so fucked in this film. he has no arc.
what the fuck happened
Poodlestrike
Banned
I don't know, man. Superman definitely had an arc, for one.
Poor editing was definitely a factor, but the script holds together fine.
tbf, that does apply to the DK trilogy.
lol, wow. He's right.
I didn't think it was that bad since Wonder Woman's whole reason for being in the movie
was to recover the evidence Lex had on her.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
G'way, TDKR was way better than this or man of steel.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Some motherfuckers always tryin' to ice-skate uphill
I watched it last night. Some thoughts:
1. First half of the movie is an incoherent mess. The movie editors must have hated the direction when putting it together.
2. Eisenberg's Luthor downright ruined the movie for me. It's not that he's a bad actor, it's that this was a ridiculous miscast.
3. Affleck is great a Batman, arguably the best Batman. The opposite to Eisenberg's Luthor when it comes to casting.
4.
I can't even decide whether I liked it or not. I so intensely hated Eisenberg's Luthor, lol.
1. First half of the movie is an incoherent mess. The movie editors must have hated the direction when putting it together.
2. Eisenberg's Luthor downright ruined the movie for me. It's not that he's a bad actor, it's that this was a ridiculous miscast.
3. Affleck is great a Batman, arguably the best Batman. The opposite to Eisenberg's Luthor when it comes to casting.
4.
The trailers gave most of the movie away.
I can't even decide whether I liked it or not. I so intensely hated Eisenberg's Luthor, lol.
I remember this quote.
Though, I don't know if it really applies, wouldn't that be on the same level of Justice League?
Like, there are so many different stories to tell with Superman way before he could meet any other hero.
More_Badass
Member
Just got out. I'd give it a 7.5. Great action, Affleck was just so damn good as Batman, Wonder Woman was cool, I liked how the movie touched on the Man of Steel stuff and Superman's role. A fun enjoyable ride
But it definitely had flaws. Lex was just...ugh, no menace, no presence or intelligence, never felt like the kind of foe that could be Superman's nemesis in the future. Kevin Spacey was hamming it up in Returns, but at least he exuded a sense of power and ruthlessness and seemed imposing.
Also the Knightmare scene felt completely extraneous and wedged into the movie like a jagged uncomfortable splinter. Bruce already had reason and drive enough to want to take on Clark; that whole sequence added nothing to that.
And while the Batmobile looked cool, the chase wasn't that exciting. The Tumbler and Batpod scenes from the Nolan movies were better crafted, felt more intense and like they had higher stakes
But overall, I enjoyed it
But it definitely had flaws. Lex was just...ugh, no menace, no presence or intelligence, never felt like the kind of foe that could be Superman's nemesis in the future. Kevin Spacey was hamming it up in Returns, but at least he exuded a sense of power and ruthlessness and seemed imposing.
Also the Knightmare scene felt completely extraneous and wedged into the movie like a jagged uncomfortable splinter. Bruce already had reason and drive enough to want to take on Clark; that whole sequence added nothing to that.
And while the Batmobile looked cool, the chase wasn't that exciting. The Tumbler and Batpod scenes from the Nolan movies were better crafted, felt more intense and like they had higher stakes
But overall, I enjoyed it
Damn... I thought you would have liked it more.
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