daemissary
Member
So generally speaking, would you say divisiveness is a good thing? Or a bad thing?
Super Tuesday 4. I'm really feeling (The After Bern) March 22, 26 contests
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So generally speaking, would you say divisiveness is a good thing? Or a bad thing?
Aaron Strife
Banned
Not entitlement it's the fact that if the 2-party race narrows down to Clinton and Trump and you're a Bernie supporter, throwing your vote to a third party or write-in or just not showing up demonstrates severe foolishness and a lack of commitment to Bernie's ideals.
Yes Hillary should have to fight for every vote and she has, but if thick-headed Berniestans aren't willing to give her a chance then don't get pissed off when she looks for those votes elsewhere from people who don't just call her a lying bitch.
The main reason you're seeing so many naysayers is because 1) Bernie is actually really fucking behind and it will be very difficult to make up the delegate disadvantage (compare to Obama's 08 win where he only maintained a lead of around 100 or so that was impossible for Hillary to catch up to) and 2) refusing to acknowledge or admit that leads to the belief that he can win, and then that he will win, and when he doesn't you end up with a lot of sore Bernie supporters who think it's unfair.
I caucused for Bernie in MN but I never fully boarded the Bernie hype train just because I knew he wouldn't win and nowhere has he done well enough to prove me wrong. This string of caucuses looks good for him but then he runs headfirst into NY and MD which are looking like Hillary landslides. It's not naysaying, it's math.
I don't think he should drop out, but I think Bernie supporters need to be far more realistic in their expectations.
The Librarian
Banned
My opinion on divisiveness has no relevance to the point I was making.
Karsticles
Member
If the Republicans would have thrown someone out there to replace Bush in his second election, I would have respected that decision.
Exactly. When Gallup polls show that the three most hated groups in the USA are Muslims, Socialists, and Atheists, Bernie's numbers elate me.
The Librarian
Banned
you want to throw the election to the republicans?
I'd also like to add the thinly veiled racism with comments such as "How come the south decides who the nominee is" and "Why don't miniorities vote for what's good for them?"
This stuff is NOT ok.
superdeluxe
Member
I'm happy for my friends tonight in Washington state, glad that Sanders energized them enough to get involved with the process. I still think all contests should be primaries. But I can feel happy for their involvement. Still think Clinton takes this.
Sure, probably because conservatives would have lost the Whitehouse, for proof just look at Bush Sr.
There's a reason it's a bad idea to primary candidates. If someone were to primary Hillary her chances of loosing the reelection would skyrocket.
Bernie considered primarying Obama in 2012 and that made me loose a lot of respect for him.
Hawaii opened about ten minutes before your post.
It's going to be a while, unfortunately.
Hawaii has the lowest voting rate in the Union at least partially because the election is mostly over by like 4 PM Hawaiian time.
Prototype Viktor
Member
i'm feeling the BERN! he's going to reduce that lead Hilary has to only 300! then to 298! then to 400!
Aaron Strife
Banned
Yo what up.
I think Hillary supporters can be guilty of that too (see that whitepeople.gif earlier) but it doesn't seem nearly as prevalent, probably because she's actually winning so there's less bitterness on that side.
The "Well Hillary only wins red states so her support doesn't mean as much" argument really pisses me off too. First of all because it's empirically not true (they've both won plenty of red, blue and purple states each), second because do we all like the electoral college now or what? Go tell all the liberals in places like Austin or Atlanta that their support doesn't matter. That's bullshit. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin would all be red states but for the cities.
And a lot of these are the same liberals that complain about the 50 state strategy, I guess they're the enemy when they support candidates who aren't to your standard.
This requires you to fall under the myth that Sanders' core base are even Democrats, when they're not.
His biggest upset state yet was Michigan where Clinton won with registered Democrats but enough independents voted for Sanders to make a big difference.
He does well in caucuses because his voters are non-Dems who simply refuse to budge even if they're in a room that is 70/30 Clinton/Sanders and most Dems aren't opposed to Sanders, they just prefer Clinton.
He does ok to well in open primaries because his base is really non-registered voters.
He generally gets crushed in closed primaries.
He isn't doing anything good for the Democratic party here. He's peddling blatant fairy tales to a naive base while tearing down core elements of the U.S. economy either because he lacks the intellect to understand them or the integrity to give an accurate portrayal.
Sanders is your standard career politician running with a good thing while it lasts. Along with Divine and Weaver he's going to steal so much college kid lunch money that he'll never need to dirty is ideologue fingers asking for campaign contributions until the day he dies in office.
Tranqueris
Banned
The fact that California has become part of this narrative is really weird. Maybe it has to do with the large delegate count or maybe people's own built up idea of California, but it is not white enough for Bernie to win the way he needs to win. Unless he somehow magically made inroads with an overwhelming number of black and especially latino voters while we were all busy trying to figure out how many women Lyin' Ted's been having an affair with.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
These threads are always worth it for the meltdowns on both sides
Tesseract
Banned
Bernie can't win unless he wins California, ergo Bernie must be able to win California.
Also people know that Californians are super liberal and assume that they must support Bernie since he is "further left" than Hillary.
The Librarian
Banned
meltdowns are the only way i feel the bern
Yes he does but you can only do so much if you have x amount of days to compete against someone who everyone and their dog knows about. Your goal is to get your name out there as much as possible within the budget you have. Could he have done better? Of course. But considering this guy started his presidential campaign with 3 people in the press conference and had to go from zero to what he is today. Its unbelieveable how much he has accomplished in such a small amount of time.
I mean this is the same guy who's events had a dozen people in them and his banners were hung up using duct tape just a couple of months ago
He has come a long way. Much more than anyone could have imagined. His effort needs to be commended. Not pushed away and ridiculed.
Party loyalists aren't realizing that Sanders supporters and Trump supporters are largely people who despise the parties that those candidates technically represent. "For the good of the party" is not motivating to them, they feel insulted by it.
And no, I don't think Bernie and Trump are in any way similar candidates, but they are both a reaction against stagnant political elites that largely have contempt for the will of the people.
And no, I don't think Bernie and Trump are in any way similar candidates, but they are both a reaction against stagnant political elites that largely have contempt for the will of the people.
neurosisxeno
Member
Those 2 points are unrelated for most people. Yes, southern states have higher turnout among black and Hispanic voters, but they also almost always vote Republican. Hillary winning by landslides in states she won't win in the general shouldn't really be the determining factor for the parties nominee in most people's minds. Yes, her wins in Florida, Illinois, Ohio and Virginia definitely helped her electability, but it's likely in the general Hillarys supporters would vote for Bernie over someone like Trump.
The second point is confusion among mostly white supporters. It may be interpreted as racist but I don't think that's the intent. A lot of Bernie supporters genuinely don't understand why non-whites don't favor Bernie when his platform aligns with what they claim is important to them. There's also the fact that on the issues Bernie generally has been more supportive of minorities than Hillary.
daemissary
Member
Are you arguing that your statement and attitude aren't promoting divisiveness then? Because otherwise, I fail to see how you can't make the logical leap that divisiveness is bad therefore promoting divisiveness is also bad.
"Low information voters"
googleplex
Member
Jesus Christ... As a so-called progressive, Why wyould you want Hillary to be primaried after 4 years?
Then again Bernie wanted Obama to be primaried also and his followers refuse to admit his was wrong there also.
Tesseract
Banned
And the more the party jobbers try to rope us in, the stronger we get. Theirs isn't a real movement, because their leader is a sham.
Punishment has come to Hillary.
Karsticles
Member
If the country wants to burn itself to the ground, let it.
That said, I strongly doubt most Americans would vote for Trump over Sanders. The massive hate for that man is too much to overcome. He's a strongly polarizing figure.
Fair point.
Maybe I'm not happy with a center-right candidate just because she has the word "Democrat" pasted next to her name.
I'm not voting for Trump.
I have always been realistic in my expectations.
titiklabingapat
Member
I'm fine with that. Many of these voters don't even vote in the midterms.
Ogrekiller
Member
Hillary is the Boss, willing to die for her country and is vilified for it.
Bernie is the End, just fast forward the PS2 by 2 weeks and he's done.
googleplex
Member
Hillary isn't right centered though.
lastflowers
Banned
I literally just went to a Bernie Sanders rally with lots of points about our political spectrum not related to Wall Street in any way shape or form.
A point directly not spot on. Yes, you might bring up optics points. There are other aspects of the post I find grossly generalizing, but why bother when that means I have to do hours of research to counter-point an assertion you'll assume is correct?
And he's particularly held large sections of his political perspective for years. So please, bish, be a little more intellectually honest as a mod when discussing these things.
I'll gladly concede defeat, but it sometimes pisses me off when I see this unjust generalization simply to fit ones own narrative.
Don't be so absurd, just because she isn't all 'socialist' and unrealistically left like Bernie doesn't mean she is right wing centrist.
American peception of socialism and atheism is a direct party line split. Why would you be elated when the ~29% of the population who explicitly are ok with both in very high percentages don't hold that against a primary candidate?
That's like saying "I know most Americans support a woman's right to choose but the success of X anti-abortion candidate in the GOP primary elates me".
Hillary was substantially closer throughout, FYI. Sanders hasn't been as close to Hillary as she was to Obama at basically any point after Super Tuesday.
That was his window, the notion that a big NH win propels the winner upward for a big Super Tuesday win. That didn't happen and when it didn't happen the writing was already on the wall for Sanders. The nomination was locked when his 'strong' rust belt appeal resulted in him winning Michigan and Minnesota but losing Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, and Ohio.
He can stay in as long as he wants, it doesn't particularly matter and when he drops out or concedes at the convention, he won't do anything positive for the Clinton campaign and will likely continue to push his wedge issue agenda to the detriment of the entire country. But that's just who Sanders is and he's got an army of naive enablers backing him up.
excelsiorlef
Member
Based on what?
NY = not really. Best he can do is to minimize his loss
Cali = Maybe. But not by a huge margin.
The Librarian
Banned
u troll
He's not being serious, just super likes Bernie. He'll disappear when Hillary gets the nom ;-)
She's absolutely scum. This country deserves better, and has the opportunity to do so. I don't understand the love she has on here. Because she's the "safe" choice. Screw her, I hope he fights until the end
Tesseract
Banned
Yup it's over for Hillary, the universe sent Bernie as birdie. Ah GAF, Bernie shouldn't even be alive in this story ~ the oldest story there is. We've come a long way, yolo.
Easily. Most of the remaining states are states where only Democrats get to vote. Democrats prefer Hillary - big surprise, she's the Democrat in the race.
This is easily Bernie's best day of the campaign, but with the exception of a handful of other small states, it's all downhill for him from here. And to the people who think he's going to take NY and CA? Zero chance. NY won't even be close.
She's not the 'safe' choice - she's the choice not offering fairy dust and unicorn farts while making people pay huge amounts more in taxes to get it. I don't want revolution - most people don't. They're messy and don't accomplish anything. Given the choice between a Senator who's managed to get a couple post offices renamed, funnel billions of dollars of pork into his tiny, rich white liberal state, shill for the NRA and shit all over the party he's running for, and one with extensive domestic and foreign policy experience (and with a rating of nearly as liberal in her time in Congress as Bernie), I'll take the latter every time.
Tranqueris
Banned
I'm surprised I haven't heard anything specifically about latino voters yet. Especially after Florida and Arizona.
There's still time though..
You're great, Ashodin. Seriously your enthusiasm is always great to hear, even as a Hillary supporter.
It annoys me to no end when I hear this. I even heard "Bernie would be a center right candidate in Europe".
No neither Sanders, Clinton, or Obama are center right, in the US or in Europe and to say so displays a gross misunderstanding of the politics of the US and the different countries in Europe.
hipsterpants
Member
I'm not disagreeing with your first point (or saying you believe those things) but honestly that belief is incredibly offensive. For Southern Dem voters this is really the only chance they have to vote on their candidate of choice, so giving them less voting power might as well be disenfranchising them entirely. And of course given the racial make-up of those voters it gets a lot worse.
teruterubozu
Member
Wow the vitriol is flying in here. Where's the aloha?
The intent doesn't matter. Thinking it makes you a racist. Maybe a "diet" racist, maybe a "closet" racist, whatever stupid term you want to use. Saying it makes you an outspoken racist. If you profile an entire ethnic group into a single whole and then act like you can determine what is best for them based on your outsider knowledge of their views and beliefs you're being the literal embodiment of racism.
Also, go ask blacks in Vermont how much support they got from Sanders.
Easier to just say Bernie won Latinos.
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