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[Morrigan Stark]

It's still arguable that violence is a bigger harm to society than sexuality

Your mistake is conflating sexualization of female characters with (depictions of) sexuality. There is no sexuality going on here.

imagine a world in which people got this upset about that male final fantasy character having his outfit changed to show less skin.

Remember when the devs of that game said they changed his design because it made people in focus testing uncomfortable?

Ya, not so sure we sure lil nerds whining about that one.

Yeeeeeep

That wasn't a censorship issue based on feedback from a foreign market and implemented against the developer's original intent, it was the development team realising they'd made a mistake and revising the design to create something that made more sense. Nobody wanted to see the original incarnation of that character, and the revision was necessary to create something that could be taken remotely seriously.

Hahahahaha holy shit you can't be serious. Those mental gymnastics and double-standards are absolutely insane.

Seriously. Western games tend to have more sexual stuff (exposed tits and all) yet we are the puritans.

Probably because they can differentiate between actual sexuality, and otaku-pandering. Showing a sex scene (with, or without, nudity) = depicting sexuality. Gratuitous panty shots during combat? Just your run-of-the-mill objectification of women, that's all.

 

[Toxi]

Technically, you're not a foreigner if you're born half-Japanese (if your mother or your father happens to be full Japanese while the other parent is all American).

You also get the best of both worlds.

The dream of every American nerd: Be Japanese, but not too Japanese.

 

[Danchi]

All I know, is that when I'm in Japan, the Japanese seem always very eager to consort with me.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...

 

[Nanashrew]

This has to be a joke. These developers can't be this tone deaf to think that giving their barely 18 year old female protagonist regular panties instead of a thong is the difference between criticism of hypersexualizing their female characters. Have they seen the checkered witch?

I'm not saying they need to change shit. I'm saying that f they think they do the pink haired girl's panties is a drop in the ocean.... merely a band aid.

Reasonable covered 18 year old woman who happens to like to wear thongs. I don't understand it either. The change was entirely pointless imo. Feels like deflection, throwing people under the bus or tone deafness.

 

[Spiritwalker]

where's my hottu male underwear though??

 

[crinale]

I think what is truly silly is that after having seen all these people talk about how games are designed for a certain audience, now we're seeing it shift to prioritize a different audience, and it then becomes problematic.

It ultimately comes down to companies' decision, that is, to make product more "tame" for broader audience or keep catering original niche audience. As the economy becomes more and more globalized this issue won't be limited to entertainment industry I guess.

Edit: I also think Japanese game devs are a bit paranoid of backlash affecting their business, but I think those companies' higher ups are thinking that if they mishandle social reception of your product the backlash will hurt not only the particular product but company as a whole. So why take the risk?

And making Japanese version change too is, well, to avoid having two different assets depending on regions. Now this should be purely business issue.

 

[le.phat]

I think every developer is free to make decisions and changes however they want, but one thing that bothers me is that things should be made without fear. I know money is king and the whole point is to sell as much as possible, but having a creative decision you make that effect all versions be based on minimizing flak because you are worried about the values of another non-home audience, it does seem strange to me. Usually if something were change in localization it is done for that region only, like changing the Fatman in Fallout to Nuka Launcher in Japan to avoid the naming reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and to be fair that is just a slight text change compared to a model change). But all in all, I don't think this detail will effect sales at all if they didn't say anything, but what might effect it is any perception they receive such as articles making it seem like they are bending over for other people, since there are stories that some buyers are extremely fickle.

Giving characters a sexy edge is just as pandering lol. You think that's part of the creative vision ? It's part of what sold games in the past, but those days are gone. Gamers (mostly) grew up, and its time that these creatives do the same.

 

[MCD]

Can't wait for FF7 Remake getting all censored as fuck.

 

[kiryogi]

Giving characters a sexy edge is just as pandering lol. You think that's part of the creative vision ? It's part of what sold games in the past, but those days are gone. Gamers (mostly) grew up, and its time that these creatives do the same.

You clearly haven't seen the mobile field.

 

[Hedge]

where's my hottu male underwear though??

I will not rest until there is a male diamond-checkered mage in the party.

 

[Xenoblade]

The Great Barrier Reef is dying and this is what people are getting upset about?



GAF, don't ever change.

 

[Toxi]

Giving characters a sexy edge is just as pandering lol. You think that's part of the creative vision ? It's part of what sold games in the past, but those days are gone. Gamers (mostly) grew up, and its time that these creatives do the same.

Sex appeal is pretty clearly selling games now.

The Great Barrier Reef is dying and this is what people are getting upset about?

Is the Great Barrier Reef a nickname for virtual panties?

 

[23qwerty]

The Great Barrier Reef is dying and this is what people are getting upset about?



GAF, don't ever change.

That's a new one... even if I do agree with the sentiment

 

[Intel_89]

I really hate when developers cave in on their own visions just to appease a certain audience, this might be seen as something minimal by some (myself included) but it's still another step toward a world where a game needs to be strictly PC.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I really hate when developers cave in on their own visions just to appease a certain audience, this might be seen as something minimal by some (myself included) but it's still another step toward a world where a game needs to be strictly PC.

They aren't sacrificing their own vision. They include panty shots because it sells, and then later they might remove those because they sell less.

Christ.

 

[Hektor]

The Great Barrier Reef is dying and this is what people are getting upset about?

GAF, don't ever change.

I too visit NeoGAF gamingside to talk about the preservation of nature.

They aren't sacrificing their own vision. They include panty shots because it sells, and then later they might remove those because they sell less.

Christ.

How do you know pantyshots aren't part of the vision?

 

[le.phat]

Sex appeal is pretty clearly selling games now.

Is the Great Barrier Reef a nickname for virtual panties?

It is, but as the gaming community diversifies, pandering lewdness becomes less and less appealing, and hence, you'll see the game artits and creatives adjust to make sure their thing still has maximum mainstream appeal.

 

[Dennis]

The Great Barrier Reef is dying and this is what people are getting upset about?

I think you meant to say The Great Barrier Queef.

 

[FairFriend]

I mean, this is going to be a problem for every character wearing a skirt in game in which you can rotate the camera. There's little you can do about it.

 

[le.phat]

I really hate when developers cave in on their own visions just to appease a certain audience, this might be seen as something minimal by some (myself included) but it's still another step toward a world where a game needs to be strictly PC.

adding unnessecary panty shots is appeasing to a certain audience. Her character design was in no way compromised. Stop trolling or for the love of god, get some perspective.

 

[jediyoshi]

The Great Barrier Reef is dying and this is what people are getting upset about?



GAF, don't ever change.

I'm so glad this is the one comment I randomly run into dipping into this thread.

I'd love to know what this accomplished and how you specifically weren't continually complacent with this thread as a result.

 

[Nanashrew]

I really hate when developers cave in on their own visions just to appease a certain audience, this might be seen as something minimal by some (myself included) but it's still another step toward a world where a game needs to be strictly PC.

You sound like you have your panties in a bunch.

 

[Shifty]

Those gosh darned Social Justice Worriers.

 

[Matt]

I really hate when developers cave in on their own visions just to appease a certain audience, this might be seen as something minimal by some (myself included) but it's still another step toward a world where a game needs to be strictly PC.

Considering how often in the past (and even today) developers were told to sexualize female characters for the sake of sales, this is a really funny comment.

 

[Tohsaka]

They aren't sacrificing their own vision. They include panty shots because it sells, and then later they might remove those because they sell less.

Christ.

They didn't actually remove them, though. You can actually see them more prominently because they made her panties bigger. That's not going to increase the size of the audience that was never interested in the game in the first place.

 

[Danchi]

I really hate when developers cave in on their own visions just to appease a certain audience, this might be seen as something minimal by some (myself included) but it's still another step toward a world where a game needs to be strictly PC.

Couldn't you make the argument that they were already "caving in on their own vision" by pandering to the otaku crowd in the first place though?

Here's an interesting article about how economic decline caused Japanese content creators to focus on niche markets: http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/

 

[jediyoshi]

Considering how often in the past (and even today) developers were told to sexualize female characters for the sake of sales, this is a really funny comment.

What came first, the sexualized chicken or the sexualized egg.

 

[ponpo]

I mean, this is going to be a problem for every character wearing a skirt in game in which you can rotate the camera. There's little you can do about it.

Time for the bloomer renaissance.

 

[p3n]

It is, but as the gaming community diversifies, pandering lewdness becomes less and less appealing, and hence, you'll see the game artits and creatives adjust to make sure their thing still has maximum mainstream appeal.

Heh. ( ≖‿&#8790b

 

[2+2=5]

Am i the only one not seeing the difference?
You can see panties before and now and Fiore is as naked as before.

 

[Hektor]

Couldn't you make the argument that they were already "caving in on their own vision" by pandering to the otaku crowd in the first place though?

Thing about this is, we often do not know what the devs vision was.

Did the creator only put in pantyshots to appeal to a certain audience?

Or does the creator simply like pantyshots himself?

Did he only started liking pantyshots because they make additional Cash$$$?

And what came first, the Pantyshots or the otaku market?

 

[Zomba13]

I mean, this is going to be a problem for every character wearing a skirt in game in which you can rotate the camera. There's little you can do about it.

And even then it seems there is little they did do about it.

 

[Nanashrew]

Couldn't you make the argument that they were already "caving in on their own vision" by pandering to the otaku crowd in the first place though?

Here's an interesting article about how economic decline caused Japanese pop culture makers to cater to niche markets: http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/

Still a good read and it really shows how much more they're looking further in and to specific niche markets rather than looking out in hopes to expand.

Please enjoy this video that seem to be trying to aim for every niche at once. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYrVKLBhitE

Horse racing girls that are part horse and also idols.

 

[encephalon]

It's still arguable that violence is a bigger harm to society than sexuality, regardless of how its rationalized. The point is that the western media seems to disproportionately go after games that feature one aspect and not the other.

I'm not convinced that "violence" or "sexuality" in videogames are harmful to society, but I don't feel that "sexuality" is the right word here. This isn't about the male and female character involved in a sexual relationship. They aren't exhibiting any sort of "sexuality." This is about how revealing a certain character's outfit is or isn't.

I'm really not sympathetic to the idea that every game must include eye candy for men. The "value system" quote is an important one. What kind of value system do Japanese videogame consumers have when this kind of content becomes a requirement? Skin must be revealed. Increasingly, for underage characters as well.

 

[Some Nobody]

Yeah, I can't manage to care about this change. Except in that they basically made a change I'll never actually see ('cause I don't rotate my camera for upskirt shots lmao) while their "sexy" character basically walks around the game in the most ridiculous cosplay outfit ever. I mean, I LOVE sexy characters but fuck that shit looks terrible. Overall the change is stupid though. Checkerboard Witch remaining the same ensures that not a single person will buy this game that wouldn't, but you miiiight have pissed off one or two people because you censored Miki at all. Absolutely not me tho, I just want SO5 to not suck.

Still, having those comments posted made this thread worth it.

 

[Corpekata]

Thing about this is, we often do not know what the devs vision was.

Did the creator only put in pantyshots to appeal to a certain audience?

Or does the creator simply like pantyshots himself?

Did he only started liking pantyshots because they make additional Cash$$$?

And what came first, the Pantyshots or the otaku market?

Otaku always come first.

 

[kiryogi]

Still a good read and it really shows how much more they're looking further in and to specific niche markets rather than looking out in hopes to expand.

Please enjoy this video that seem to be trying to aim for every niche at once. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYrVKLBhitE

Horse racing girls that are part horse and also idols.

See CyGames understands the future. Granblue Fantasy is the future of JRPG gaming!

 

[crinale]

What came first, the sexualized chicken or the sexualized egg.

Even SE or KT were making sexualized games

Spoiler

or eroge

long before Nintendo came to gaming business so o course sexualized chicken came first!

See CyGames understands the future. Granblue Fantasy is the future of JRPG gaming!

To be fair they are making tons of money from it and I won't be surprised if GranBlue Fantsy singlehandedly overtakes the whole dedicated gaming market in Japan.

 

[RawNuts]

Gamers (mostly) grew up, and its time that these creatives do the same.

Art is a reflection of society, especially commercial art that needs to appeal to the demographic majority of their consumers.
If gamers "grew up," we would see that reflected in the medium. Don't be so quick to blame the developers for what works for them.

 

[Puru]

It seems mostly pointless, i mean, if you were going to rotate the camera like that you clearly had that purpose in mind to begin with.

Meanwhile that chick with green hair.

 

[Celine]

It's pretty magical that in a game where one character wears an outfit that checkerboards with her skin and looks like an Elfen Lied/ero game reject they choose to change the character that for all intents and purpose is totally unoffensive.

Then the change they make makes it so her underwear is even more visible.

Japan, you so crazy.

Exactly what I thought.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

They didn't actually remove them, though. You can actually see them more prominently because they made her panties bigger. That's not going to increase the size of the audience that was never interested in the game in the first place.

Missing the point. Even if they failed at what they were attempting to do, the point is that they weren't sacrificing some deep artistic vision, it's all about making $$$, whether it's by pandering to otakus or by trying to appeal to wider demographics.

 

[Toxi]

Otaku always come first.

Damn.

 

[chrono01]

I know it's a bit early for April Fool's (and I doubt it's something that a Japanese company would take part in), but it would be hilarious if this was just some elaborate joke. I don't know, the censored image just looks "off" to me...

 

[Crocodile]

I would answer, "absolutely". Do you really think it's easy to find stuff like classic Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics? I played The Knight of Lodis for the first time somewhat recently - it feels like a product of an entirely different era (and it is, lol). SRPGs in particular have been completely hijacked by dating sim elements and/or super pandering designs, and it is indeed hard to find anything that defies the norm.

Oh I remember Knight of Lodis. I loved that game. I have no clue where I may have put that game cartridge though

Anyway, I certainly think we all have a line where game content moves from "I don't care" or "I like this" to "C'mon Son!". My characterization of you (again I'm merely making an observation, I'm not trying to judge you) is that where you set your personal line is very low. I don't think there are a ton of SRPGs being made nowadays in general but I'm having a hard time thinking of that many that caught my interest but I thought the sexual content had crossed "that" line. I dunno, I personally don't think its hard to find Japanese games without content I'd personally find objectionable to any significant degree while also acknowledging there are a lot of games that make me say "C'mon Son!".

Probably because they can differentiate between actual sexuality, and otaku-pandering. Showing a sex scene (with, or without, nudity) = depicting sexuality. Gratuitous panty shots during combat? Just your run-of-the-mill objectification of women, that's all.

I don't think you're saying this, but to be clear, I think you can express sexuality without using actual sex.

Couldn't you make the argument that they were already "caving in on their own vision" by pandering to the otaku crowd in the first place though?

Here's an interesting article about how economic decline caused Japanese pop culture makers to cater to niche markets: http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/

I was looking for that article recently. Thanks for the link!

On the current subject, I'm really skeptical they really put that much thought into the underwear of this character before hand. I don't think any consumer thought/knew you could achieve "that angle" without the devs saying anything. So it couldn't have been a selling point. This is a weird, though in the grand scheme totally irrelevant, situation.

 

[Corpekata]

Still a good read and it really shows how much more they're looking further in and to specific niche markets rather than looking out in hopes to expand.

Please enjoy this video that seem to be trying to aim for every niche at once. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYrVKLBhitE

Horse racing girls that are part horse and also idols.

Lesbian idol schoolhorsegirls.

That's gotta be one of the more specific fetishes.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I don't think you're saying this, but to be clear, I think you can express sexuality without using actual sex.

Yeah I wasn't, just giving examples.

 

[Tohsaka]

Missing the point. Even if they failed at what they were attempting to do, the point is that they weren't sacrificing some deep artistic vision, it's all about making $$$, whether it's by pandering to otakus or by trying to appeal to wider demographics.

They'd have to be pretty stupid to think adjusting the size of a panty shot that wasn't even advertised would have a positive effect on their sales, when they left the part that westerners actually complained about (the witch) intact.

 

[Jonneh3003]

Underwear is a major gameplay component.

Things like this shouldn't matter in the slightest, I would rather developers just not implement them in any version of the game to avoid these silly arguments. Its a non issue that sparks up so much controversy, who really cares what their underwear looks like?

Just don't put stuff like this in the game, people get mad when things are taken away from them. If it never exists then there's nothing to get angry about.

 

[Nanashrew]

Even SE or KT were making sexualized games

Spoiler

or eroge

long before Nintendo came to gaming business so o course sexualized chicken came first!

I could not help myself when you brought up the chicken.