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[JayEH]

One the one hand: It's just a texture and shouldn't warrant such a huge outrage.

In the other hand: The "teenage-girl with skimpy outfit"-trope is something that occurs so often in Japanese media, that some might even refer to it as pop-culture.

So now you have a Japanese developer changing an aspect of a game sold in Japan because of the mismatch with the foreign culture.

Think about this: GTA games in Japan were often censored so that you cannot kick a person on the ground and civilians wouldn't drop money when killed. What would everybodies reaction be if Rockstar made that edit to every version of the game, just to adjust to Japan's market?

Actual riots on the street.

 

[toythatkills]

I find it more hilarious that the company just threw us under the bus as the reason for the change when nobody would have even noticed in the first place. The change was made to a character who wasn't even really sexualized, and the panties looked like some regular panties a girl would wear. You wouldn't even really see them that often unless you were actually trying to get those upskirt shots. It's an odd change when you already have another character running around nearly naked.

If you can see a characters panties, she's sexualised.

Yeah, that is annoying. The character is well covered, not many are interested in a virtual character's panties and whatever they look like and could have been left in without any issue.

I imagine you'd be surprised.

 

[Nirolak]

imagine a world in which people got this upset about that male final fantasy character having his outfit changed to show less skin.

Remember when the devs of that game said they changed his design because it made people in focus testing uncomfortable?

Ya, not so sure we sure lil nerds whining about that one.

That one was extra great because they did like a five minute livestreamed apology segment for having ever given him that much skin.

 

[Corpekata]

I feel like there is this kind of self-satisfaction over this, because it's about sexualization of young looking anime characters. It's just "market forces" imposing the "right" view on a backwards culture. Easy for us to say "so what" or even "good".

But eventually China's going to be a big enough market that "market forces" will force elements such as zombies and skeletons (banned by Chinese gov) out of our games.

If Germany were a big market: no more nazi enemies.

If Japan were a big market: no more decapitations.

If India were a large market: no more kissing.

If middle eastern countries were a big market: no more smoking or drinking.

These "market forces" aren't always going to be what we've decided in America is morally right....

So what you're saying is we should pray China gets bigger so they can end the dreaded Zombie Glut of the 2010s?

 

[alpha69]

Personally, I don't care about such a tiny change. Way too insignificant. If they removed a mini-game or butchered the localization then I'd be mad.

Still... SE is quite the paranoid for worrying about this. Real silly. At least it's not in the Tree House level of paranoia that head petting is considered obscene lol

 

[Jiraiza]

If the developer hadn't come out and called attention to it, I doubt many people would have noticed. Pretty dumb of them to mention this right before the game goes on sale in Japan.

On the bright side, the Ultimate Box might be in stock with the outrage.

Crossing my fingers.

 

[MilkBeard]

I feel like there is this kind of self-satisfaction over this, because it's about sexualization of young looking anime characters. It's just "market forces" imposing the "right" view on a backwards culture. Easy for us to say "so what" or even "good".

But eventually China's going to be a big enough market that "market forces" will force elements such as zombies and skeletons (banned by Chinese gov) out of our games.

If Germany were a big market: no more nazi enemies.

If Japan were a big market: no more decapitations.

If India were a large market: no more kissing.

If middle eastern countries were a big market: no more smoking or drinking.

These "market forces" aren't always going to be what we've decided in America is morally right....

But that is all up to each country's localization team. You know, the people who translate and make changes based on cultural relevance.
I still don't understand why the developers couldn't have simply made the change during localization. I don't give a shit personally if she was running around nude in the Japanese version.

It's a weird management issue.

 

[chrono01]

Nothing to worry about, none of the people upset about this ever go outside.

Just stand in h doujin section at Melon and nod respectfully towards everyone so they know you are one of them.

Works for me fam.

 

[Hektor]

If you can see a characters panties, she's sexualised.

If you actively have to go out of your way in order to see them, then i'd argue it's the player who is sexualising, not the game.

 

[Amon37]

Now it looks like a diaper WITH a load in it. Ugh

 

[Toxi]

That one was extra great because they did like a five minute livestreamed apology segment for having ever given him that much skin.

Seriously? I need to see this.

 

[IvanJ]

So, Japanese are upset because they cannot see a bit of panties on a cartoon character.

Somebody needs to tell them there is Pornhub for free.

 

[RM8]

Now it looks like a diaper WITH a load in it. Ugh

I can't wait for the Bit Block review of this game.

 

[Giever]

imagine a world in which people got this upset about that male final fantasy character having his outfit changed to show less skin.

Remember when the devs of that game said they changed his design because it made people in focus testing uncomfortable?

Ya, not so sure we sure lil nerds whining about that one.

I was sad about it.

 

[Aters]

I feel like there is this kind of self-satisfaction over this, because it's about sexualization of young looking anime characters. It's just "market forces" imposing the "right" view on a backwards culture. Easy for us to say "so what" or even "good".

But eventually China's going to be a big enough market that "market forces" will force elements such as zombies and skeletons (banned by Chinese gov) out of our games.

If Germany were a big market: no more nazi enemies.

If Japan were a big market: no more decapitations.

If India were a large market: no more kissing.

If middle eastern countries were a big market: no more smoking or drinking.

These "market forces" aren't always going to be what we've decided in America is morally right....

Chinese version of WoW doesn't have skeletons, but it doesn't affect other versions right? This kind of things are up to the localization team.

 

[Nirolak]

Seriously? I need to see this.

I'm not sure which stream it was in exactly, but it was one of the 1+ hour Mobius streams.

If you remember the PAX East segment about how they changed the car wheel to the other side in Final Fantasy 15, it was similar to that.

 

[Amauri14]

Both figuratively and literally.

Savage!

 

[Golnei]

imagine a world in which people got this upset about that male final fantasy character having his outfit changed to show less skin.

Remember when the devs of that game said they changed his design because it made people in focus testing uncomfortable?

Ya, not so sure we sure lil nerds whining about that one.

That wasn't a censorship issue based on feedback from a foreign market and implemented against the developer's original intent, it was the development team realising they'd made a mistake and revising the design to create something that made more sense. Nobody wanted to see the original incarnation of that character, and the revision was necessary to create something that could be taken remotely seriously.

 

[Breads]

I don't see the point in the change. Panties are still panties.

What I understand even less is the outrage. Afaik these are still panties.

I dunno. Maybe I should sit this one out.

 

[Dennis]

Square Enix and tri-Ace just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese pantsu culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Star Ocean 5 for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square Enix's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square Enix has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square Enix and tri-Ace, publicly apologize and undo this panty change or you can kiss your business goodbye.

 

[CrazyHal]

People who get upset at devs for removing a tiny little bit of sex appeal is some of the dumbmess shit i ever seen.

Grow up.

 

[Mik317]

I mean....


on one hand, yeah changing stuff to please outside markets is never fun.

but then again...this really isn't a big deal. Moreso since PatcheyWitchLady exists in all her glory. If those dangnabbit Social Studies Battlers really are the issue then that character will more than likely be the target of their rage...especially with that "reason" behind the design.

so yeah...everyone kinda takes a L here.

nobody wins.

 

[Sevyne]

It's entertaining you would think they threw us under the bus. He just said what the industry has been hinting as slowly since Dragon's Crown to DOAX3 to SFV and beyond, the western gaming space has become a volatile and controversial place in terms of Japanese releases. In the past, GAF would try and say it was design/sales. But we've had hinting from Yoshida to NISA that it wasn't the case. I thank him for being the martyr on this.

What? Listen, I understand the fear of backlash from the Western audience, because it's definitely gotten quite crazy. However, to go as far as a changing the underwear on a female character that nobody even noticed (and barely even noticed in this screenshot comparison) is beyond silly. That is some super extreme paranoia, and we got tossed under the bus for it. All of those hate responses from the Japanese folks are directed towards us when in this case the fault is on the dev. Nobody would have even batted an eye at her damn panties. Her derpy face was the only thing we ragged on her for.

 

[Wanchan]

Silly Japanese, westerners only freak out about virtual butt slaps.

Good one.

 

[Systolique]

Incidentally, to those reading the "Japanese reactions" as any broad representation of actual Japanese reaction, those are Hachima Kikou readers, if I'm not mistaken.

Basically, they're mostly 2chan crowd.

It's like using 4chan as a representation of western reactions.

This is the most important post in the thread yet, although the bonus image is still funny.
Also, the twitter from which this image was taken is gamergate affiliated ; so not the most partial compilation, and not from the most intellectual place on the internet either

 

[Mistouze]

Stay salty japanese moeblobs.

 

[vocab]

Gotta get mad at the perv shit because the series has been a pile of shit for 13 years. Japanese waifu defenders are funny.

 

[Toxi]

What? Listen, I understand the fear of backlash from the Western audience, because it's definitely gotten quite crazy. However, to go as far as a changing the underwear on a female character that nobody even noticed (and barely even noticed in this screenshot comparison) is beyond silly. That is some super extreme paranoia, and we got tossed under the bus for it. All of those hate responses from the Japanese folks are directed towards us when in this case the fault is on the dev. Nobody would have even batted an eye at her damn panties. Her derpy face was the only thing we ragged on her for.

I don't really mind being tossed under the bus when it leads to hilarious phrases like DO NOT CONSORT WITH FOREIGNERS

 

[chrono01]

Incidentally, to those reading the "Japanese reactions" as any broad representation of actual Japanese reaction, those are Hachima Kikou readers, if I'm not mistaken.

Basically, they're mostly 2chan crowd.

It's like using 4chan as a representation of western reactions.

Oh, good to know. That explains a lot, haha.

 

[CrispyBoar]

To be honest, I don't blame the comments from Japanese gaming fans.

There's just too many whiners on our side that doesn't deserve to have games like this, or to be called gamers.

All foreigners play are games where you slaughter people indifferently. So they got a lot of nerve to speak up about small things like this in other countries' games.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Mechazawa]

It's still arguable that violence is a bigger harm to society than sexuality, regardless of how its rationalized. The point is that the western media seems to disproportionately go after games that feature one aspect and not the other.

Who, of any real repute, still has a horse in trying to link violence in media to violence in real life?

Trying to depict the west as if it's on shaky ground because violence is a common characteristic of our media is some weak shit.

 

[Crocodile]

I can barely tell a difference and I can't sympathize with anyone who is legit upset at the nature of the actual change. SMH at those comments (then again that's 2ch not "regular Japanese gamer")

That being said, I can understand some jimmies being rustled if the home version of a game is changed due to foreign concerns with the GTA example discussed in this thread being a good one. People here would not be happy. So I can understand those Japanese players concerns even if I TOTALLY disagree with the tone of those highlighted in this thread and if the change is not something worth complaining about IMO.

That one was extra great because they did like a five minute livestreamed apology segment for having ever given him that much skin.

I only heard about that after that all transpired. I'll be frank in that I was a bit disappointed. Devs should have stuck with their guns with regards to skimpy dude I say!

 

[Galdelico]

Well, just like pretty much every kind of over-reaction, this one too has some funny elements to it, but I can totally understand where it comes from.
Sure, that's some average-YouTube-level of whine/rage, there, but I imagine alot of people in the West would react the same way, if they got their GTA, God of War and Call of Duty as censored as these games normally are in Japan (with the publishers stating it's all Japanese gamers' fault too).

There should be a link to DoA Xtreme 3 in the OP, though. Lots of good foreigners there.

 

[Ydelnae]

Can someone explain me what is actually wrong with this? They only made the pant like, 25% bigger. Those reactions are pretty dumb, seriously.

 

[Saprol]

i can't really tell the difference in those two pictures

"DO NOT CONSORT" line kills me though

 

[Hitokiri03]

Good

Not every game needs to have this kind of stuff.

 

[DealWithIt]

To be honest, I don't blame the comments from Japanese gaming fans.

There's just too many whiners on our side that doesn't deserve to have games like this, or to be called gamers.

A true stain besmirching an otherwise pristine culture. They don't DESERVE to be called gamers or play great games because they have opinions about anime panties in their RPGs!

 

[Toxi]

To be honest, I don't blame the comments from Japanese gaming fans.

There's just too many whiners on our side that doesn't deserve to have games like this, or to be called gamers.

LOL

 

[Philippo]

While opening the thread i was fearing it was about the Witch but we're saved.

 

[BocoDragon]

But that is all up to each country's localization team. You know, the people who translate and make changes based on cultural relevance.
I still don't understand why the developers couldn't have simply made the change during localization. I don't give a shit personally if she was running around nude in the Japanese version.

It's a weird management issue.

Chinese version of WoW doesn't have skeletons, but it doesn't affect other versions right? This kind of things are up to the localization team.

As MilkBeard implies... in this case it has affected the home market version. For whatever reason.

This seems a pretty weird idea to me. If the market is there people will make stuff. India and China make movies in addition to importing ours. It's not like Otaku culture is being stamped out. Hell it's too prevalent in Japanese game design for my taste. I just skip that stuff.

This is a weird reverse moral panic. You can make and consume whatever kind of media you like. Sometimes designers will make changes that don't suit your taste. Plenty of media fish in the sea.

The point is, don't be so satisfied because it's just anime girl panties. Apparently this change has made it more palatable for you... How convenient. But imagine if overseas concerns took out content you liked. That will happen.

It's not really about "panic". I'm just saying that this isn't a good thing, by shouting it into the void that is GAF.

 

[Intheflorsh]

If you don't like anime panties, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE CALLED A GAMER

 

[RevenWolf]

It doesn't say gaijin are impossible, it says "I don't understand the values of westerners" or "the values of westerners are impossible to understand."



We can probably infer that they disagree with the notion that "you shouldn't sexualize teenagers."

Lol! Gaikoku is so puritanical. These Japanese people really know where it's at!

Spoiler

This will be ignored for the remainder of the thread.

It sure ain't getting ignored on my watch!

Also I can kinda see the annoyance at being affected by the tastes of literally a different culture you never interact with.

 

[Abriael]

Considering that selection a representation of the general reaction of Japanese gamers, is like considering what I quote below a representation of the general reaction of western ones.

Stay salty japanese moeblobs.

 

[MilkBeard]

Square Enix and tri-Ace just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese pantsu culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase Star Ocean 5 for either system, nor will they purchase any of Square Enix's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square Enix has alienated an entire market with this move.

Square Enix and tri-Ace, publicly apologize and undo this panty change or you can kiss your business goodbye.

Preach it brotha

Re-panty and apologize, or you will surely commit business seppuku, SE

Spoiler

lol

 

[RM8]

I admittedly don't deserve animu panties. The industry should make sure that I never have access to them.

 

[DealWithIt]

The point is, don't be so satisfied because it's just anime girl panties. Apparently this change has made it more palatable for you... How convenient. But imagine if overseas concerns took out content you liked. That will happen.

It's not really about "panic". I'm just saying that this isn't a good thing, by shouting it into the void that is GAF.

I'm imagining it. It doesn't happen. If it did I wouldn't buy it and I'd move on. Life is like that. sometimes people make stuff in ways you don't like. For example I thought the end of Bravely Default was bullshit so I skipped the 2nd one. Problem solved.

Also, If the "content that [people] like" is a single sexy panty texture then I guess that's the straw that broke the camel's back. It's just a particularly fragile camel.

Localization will continue to exist and I don't believe in your "other cultures will subsume the things you like!" doomsday.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

NeoGaf is the living example that different cultures cannot mix.

 

[Toxi]

If you don't like anime panties, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE CALLED A GAMER

If you like slightly wider Western-approved anime panties, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE CALLED A GAMER.

 

[Intheflorsh]

If you like slightly wider Western-approved anime panties, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO BE CALLED A GAMER.

Only TRUE GAMERS understand.

 

[striferser]

Damn, the outrage is hilarious.
Can't see much difference, but i have to suggest, could the designer give her hotpants instead of that silly underpant? I'm sure it's something we all can agree with.