Star Ocean 5 character gets less-sexy underwear 'in Fear of Western Criticism'
- Thread starter ponpo
- Start date
SolidusDave
Member
The funny thing is I can't tell if you agree or disagree
I guess the latter. But you can make cases for both:
It's stupid to get one's panties all in a bunch about... panties
But in the other scenario you would be campaigning for exploding heads in gory detail, which is arguably a much less pleasant topic than sexy underwear. Making it also quite silly to get upset about it.
This whole thing sounds like the devs don't really understand the criticism or how it affects sales and whatever and they just buy into the (false) narrative that "americans don't like sex".
The character is 18, the change is so minor it is laughable and, I think the most important thing, there is no effort to make to change the character. Now, I don't know if she is a good or bad character, but I would imagine if" western criticism of female characters" is a concern, you would try and make it so your female character is fleshed out enough so it's not just a walking fanservice for boys. Instead, they go "we should make it less sexy because the problem is americans don't like sex".
The character is 18, the change is so minor it is laughable and, I think the most important thing, there is no effort to make to change the character. Now, I don't know if she is a good or bad character, but I would imagine if" western criticism of female characters" is a concern, you would try and make it so your female character is fleshed out enough so it's not just a walking fanservice for boys. Instead, they go "we should make it less sexy because the problem is americans don't like sex".
SolicitorPirate
Member
All this tells me is that a lot of smaller Japanese companies have no fucking clue who their western market is. Is the sexualisation of minors creepy and worthy of critique? Obviously. Is the historically poor treatment of female characters in anime and games in dire need of change? Of course!
That said, and here's the thing that Japanese companies simply don't get, their target market in the West gives zero shits. This is a world where Senran Kagura can sell at acceptable numbers in the West!
There is startlingly little overlap between people who are aware and critical of poor gender representation in media and people who want their otaku centric anime games. Star Ocean could attract all the criticism in the world (it wouldn't, because only two dozen people in the galaxy give a shit about Star Ocean) and it wouldn't have any effect on sales numbers.
That said, and here's the thing that Japanese companies simply don't get, their target market in the West gives zero shits. This is a world where Senran Kagura can sell at acceptable numbers in the West!
There is startlingly little overlap between people who are aware and critical of poor gender representation in media and people who want their otaku centric anime games. Star Ocean could attract all the criticism in the world (it wouldn't, because only two dozen people in the galaxy give a shit about Star Ocean) and it wouldn't have any effect on sales numbers.
Pamperchu deserves representation too, you know!
SolicitorPirate
Member
I do wonder if Japan simply lacks a history of feminist critique, which is why we keep seeing such shit stirringly oblivious misreading so of critique from these Japanese devs.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, I was getting at the fact that seeing someone's underwear isn't even close to shoving a shotgun into someone's face and blasting their head off on the morality scale. Granted, I think both are awesome and I've spoken out against the censorship of games in Germany you mentioned regarding violence, but it still makes more sense to me to have a negative reaction to such extreme violence than to something innocuous like underwear.The funny thing is I can't tell if you agree or disagree
I guess the latter. But you can make cases for both:
It's stupid to get one's panties all in a bunch about... panties
But in the other scenario you would be campaigning for exploding heads in gory detail, which is arguably a much less pleasant topic than sexy underwear. Making it also quite silly to get upset about it.
Weird that selling your game on lavishly produced gore and dismemberment is met with less of a backlash than just having some underwear that is possibly visible some times for one character maybe if you look.
Ban Puncher
Member
Fighting for women's rights is actually abysmal in Japan.
EDIT: IIRC the counsel is made up entirely of men.
Valkerionseven
Member
Don't really see the difference but w/e.
this can't real... right?
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
If you reverse image search it looks more like the left one is just a prototype and the right one is the actually released Amiibo (I don't have a Peach Amiibo to look up the dress of to confirm, though.)
Maintenance
Member
That amiibo picture is a "semi fake". The JP/EU one is the prototype, the US one is the mass production version.
yea I knew it probably was this.. the left one's quality was way better than the right..
I'm responding to the people that are using the comments to paint a picture of japan as a whole.
it's similar to how you don't gather a handful of posts from neogaf/4chan/reddit/etc and go "wow this is how the entire western world thinks".
One is a more detailed prototype the other is the final retail version.
ah ok...
That might be the case. I wonder if I know anyone who can speak to this...
I have no idea.
In the 70s and 80s (and 90s and nowadays in YouTube comments) there was this huge perception that feminism was about not liking sex. Together with the classic "feminists are lesbians" and "they hate men".
I have seen some comic books from the 80s (one with a story by Neil Gaiman no less) where an uptight professoral feminist goes into a movie theater (or something) to create rules about how much of the female body should be seen on screen, which is so missing the point that it hurts.
I guess Japan is at this stage now? They don't (want to) understand what it is all about, so they just develop this narrative of "the problem is that they are prudes that don't like sex" and then make these minor changes and then publicize their very bad reasoning which, really, does little other than creating threads like these.
encephalon
Member
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty sure trying to understand it by looking for the closest Western ideals/historical period won't work since they're vastly different cultures. It's not like the entire West (which is an oversimplification to being with) is just "ahead of the curve" while other cultures going through the same developments with a 30 year-long input lag.
Was going to say this even though I agree with the censorship.
GeekyDad
Member
No, he didn't, really. It is, ultimately, about prudishness, regardless of how deformed it is in social appearance. The majority of people around me on a day to day basis are still freaked out that a woman would dare breast feed in public, but have no issues, really, with their kids seeing graphic violence. That's just the reality. Can't tell what the fuck is going on in all of their heads to explain the behavior, but I see it every day.
Zomba13
Member
Isn't that left one the prototype? They were all higher quality and better made than the mass produced versions.
King Gilga
Member
What a stupid post, games like GTAv and witcher have far more sexual content that Japanese console games never could.
Also aside from VNs most Japanese games are about indiscriminately killing everyone as well.
They're quite hypocritical.
It is an oversimplification either way, those mysterious wizards of the east with their ancient culture are so unlike us that we have no means of understanding their ancient ways of the dragon who design panties.
I understand your point, it is not what I was trying to do. What I tried to say is that a common way to misrepresent what feminists want with their cultural critiques is to depict them as anti-sex prudes who wants men to feel less pleasure for some reason. It was an widespread interperation within the entertainment culture here during the 70s and 80s.
If this is happening there now, then in this way, they are lagging behind (if you are a progressive, a sense of progress is required) and I think they should catch up. Not that progress is linear this way, but that's still another point.
EvilKatarn
Member
True by the way. You never see the sort of on-screen railing that happened in Red Dead Redemption or Ballad of Gay Tony in Japanese games.
But that too is because of ages-old American imposed censorship. :^)
But you are not to be consorted with.
ArchedThunder
Banned
People are mad that her underwear covers up a little more of her butt cheeks? Lol.
KojiKnight
Member
They rewrote Ranka's character in the macross frontier movies to make her a childhood friend, just so they could crush any hopes of being with the main character... Truly childhood friends are cursed.
It is a very big deal Arched. I mean, you would never have noticed it, but now that it's gone ooooh boy. lmao.
ArchedThunder
Banned
What will I do with my Saturday night now?
encephalon
Member
And this doesn't have anything to do with that. His post is about Japan, where it would probably be considered just as scandalous, if not moreso.
In fact, your post seems to imply that this is in response to some sort of western criticism that didn't happen - which his post addressed, leading me to believe you didn't read it.
People are mad that this mysterious "western criticism" person who is a schizophrenic dictator that really hates sexual fanservice is gaining more power over the poor oppressed game developers of Japan.
...and then there was FFXV.
Small Mailman
Member
God even these guys had to throw in a Street Fighter V jab!
The only thing left to do: Look at DBSuper screenshots of Bulma.