Eh it's not that bad.
Star Ocean 5 character gets less-sexy underwear 'in Fear of Western Criticism'
- Thread starter ponpo
- Start date
Eh it's not that bad.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
I dont know if you saw my post or not, but if you notice how the term is used, many people do not put any detail in specifying who they're describing when using the term. This is why I said that at first it may have been used to denote a specific subset of people, but now it's generally used to describe people for social justice. That's why you see posts like "SJW's are the worst" or "This SJW shit pisses me off" in any discussion a person using that term disagrees with. When they say it, who is it in referral to? Whatever meaning the term may have had in the past is not the same as it is now.
CrispyBoar
Banned
?
I wasn't against on what they were originally doing like most posters on here.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Over 1000 posts complaining that 15 year olds aren't wearing skimpy enough clothing?
Ultimately it's all arbitrary anyway though, tons of similar (non-visual) changes get made during localization, and the entire process of making a game with a large group of people is iterative. It just seems weird to focus on one trivial aspect of the whole thing and say that thats' the line in the sand that, when crossed, is too far. This one element of the game constitutes far less than a fraction of 1% of all the included "content" anyway.
It's not about clothing it's about the integrity of the artistic vision!!!!!!!!!
/s
If BioWare genuinely believed they had delivered a quality product they wouldn't have reacted at all to the criticism. That situation wasn't them being strong-armed into compromising their vision, it was them admitting that they cut massive corners during development and trying to apologise for the quality of the ending and the lies they told pre-release. I don't see any difference between broken games being patched and what BioWare did with ME3.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Agreed 100%. I want to see a main Final Fantasy game achieve the level of mainstream success FFVII got in 97 again but even they've been struggling to repeat is as they went more niche (FFXIII especially went hard for the otaku crowd).
Now Square wants a wider audience again and as such FFXV is taking cues from western games changing a lot of old FF staples and I don't see anyone calling it censorship.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Maybe I misread your post.
I'm saying that they are ignoring Western criticism, but the criticism they're ignoring is the yelling about this (and many other recent) decision(s) to make adjustments to minor elements of a game in consideration of a wider audience appeal.
Have you seen her derp face? I'm not surprised people are not looking higher. This is the equivalent of a paper bag.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Let me be clear. The ME3 thing it's not censorship for me. They made the choice just as much as SO5 developers did. But if we have ppl here yelling CENSORSHIP over slightly wider panties then what happened with ME3 was a dictatorship in comparison! Both were results of supposedly user feedback. One changed a barely seen undergarment, the other modified the ending!
GloriousBagel
Banned
No one calls it censorship because that's how SE have been presenting FFXV with a more serious and western tone, if they made it fan servicey and then removed it later on, then yeah I would say it's censorship.
Yet another drive by post trying to be witty and funny and failing at it.
There is a joke in here about "getting your knickers in a twist", but I censored it out of fear from Western criticism.
People standing up for tiny panties in up-skirt shots, where were you when they gave that sexy boy in Final Fantasy Mobius actual clothes to wear? :C
No one is buying your "I just am against it, because censoring is bad" skit when it's the actual developers doing this.
Adjusting your product to a target audience is not censorship but marketing. Your basically saying making your game accessible is censoring it. Stuff gets redone after user feedback - I am so confused that I missed the meeting when this was decided to be regarded as an universally bad thing.
As for this particular case: Holy ballsacks the difference couldn't be more minor if it tried to. I will not even pick this fight, because this is ridiculous.
People standing up for tiny panties in up-skirt shots, where were you when they gave that sexy boy in Final Fantasy Mobius actual clothes to wear? :C
No one is buying your "I just am against it, because censoring is bad" skit when it's the actual developers doing this.
Adjusting your product to a target audience is not censorship but marketing. Your basically saying making your game accessible is censoring it. Stuff gets redone after user feedback - I am so confused that I missed the meeting when this was decided to be regarded as an universally bad thing.
As for this particular case: Holy ballsacks the difference couldn't be more minor if it tried to. I will not even pick this fight, because this is ridiculous.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
You mean lightning returns, right?
Harmful for the industry is not buying a game for a friggin change of panties.
I really cant understand thid, but whatever. At the end, its only you the one losing here.
SolidSnakex
Member
It wouldn't be censorship because Final Fantasy as a series is one that changes from entry to entry. That's part of its identity. It's why Tabata has been quick to dismiss fears that there will never be a turn based FF again. As he said, XV is XV. Whatever comes after will be different. For example, I very much doubt XVI will have a "Fantasy based on Reality" setting.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Destructoid can use that term if they want...
Regardless, I didn't like the removed content, including entire conversations censored out in Fates, but this Star Ocean situation is not comparable. I mean, it's a tiny change I wouldn't have even noticed.
Erm, games like Star Ocean are made for the Japanese audience alone. Other Asians are as priority as Westerners, they also take what's given to them. Japan has a pretty unique culture.
For whatever reason, the decision was made to change it in Japan as well, and that was decided by Japanese developers. Most Westerners who play JRPG's probably don't care, and I'm not sure why a Kotaku article or two represents Western gamers in the first place. Who cares what they think?
Regardless, I didn't like the removed content, including entire conversations censored out in Fates, but this Star Ocean situation is not comparable. I mean, it's a tiny change I wouldn't have even noticed.
Erm, games like Star Ocean are made for the Japanese audience alone. Other Asians are as priority as Westerners, they also take what's given to them. Japan has a pretty unique culture.
For whatever reason, the decision was made to change it in Japan as well, and that was decided by Japanese developers. Most Westerners who play JRPG's probably don't care, and I'm not sure why a Kotaku article or two represents Western gamers in the first place. Who cares what they think?
Alex_Mexico
Member
Only because they stupidly made this change public are you even calling this shit censorship. You have no idea how many changes were made internally in many games as to not offend ethnicities, women, Muslims, Christians, etc.
It happened out of their own accord and prior to release. It's not censorship.
OK. I need to know this now:
Is she 14,15,16, or 18?
I've seen posts like this throughout the thread and am now confused on her age.
She's 18. It says so at the beginning of her character trailer.
OK. That's what I thought, but then I see posts like that one I mentioned above and I think that they changed the NA ages to 18 and the jp ages are younger or something.
from the 2nd page
from the 2nd page
There is something very strange about her body proportions in relation to her head and eyes in size.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Mrs. Potatohead
captainpat
Member
Nope, same age in the jp version as well
shadow2810
Member
She is quite muscular by anime standard.
Her head to body proportions tells you she might be even older than 18.
Puck Beaverton
Banned
It is kind of strange since the majority of their audience (like myself) don't care and expect this (in my opinion) dumb shit.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
from the 2nd page
I don't wanna play as no fuckin' oba-san.
Her head is way too small for a human. This is like Chris Redfield levels of absurdity and he was at least supposed to appear buff. This just looks like someone put a child's head on an adult body.
I was ignoring the fact that she also looks to have the body of an MMA fighter.
I think this controversy is hilarious because it's the first time I've heard of a game company being told off by both sides. On one side you have western gamers claiming that they are not as easily offended as Square Enix has been lead to believe and then you have eastern gamers who are angry that their version is being changed to appease western sensibilities.
Looks perfectly normal to me but as a MMO player I have different standards. Some MMOs make it difficult to make a face that doesn't look goofy depending on what gender/race combination you chose for your character.
Looks perfectly normal to me but as a MMO player I have different standards. Some MMOs make it difficult to make a face that doesn't look goofy depending on what gender/race combination you chose for your character.
Totaleclipes
Banned
I agree with the Japanese forum it's a double standard too much "political correctness" type censoring is going on in gaming.
You'd have a heart attack if you visited a game studio and saw how games are made.
(This is how games have always been made, you just didn't know about it.)
Rude.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Dem Japanese reacts. Damn.
Nobody forced them to do this, nor did anyone care before the devs themselves started this noncontroversy
It's almost as if she is a drawing of a cartoon!
Good point. One of the original things that appealed to people about indie games was the idea that they would not be bound by political correctness.
If anything i'm miffed against the devs themselves. No one was making a huge fuss about it, even on GAF. In fact a lot of people liked the chara designs, others at worst were just indifferent to it. This is kinda screaming for the fire department before the smoke rises up, and it's a shame since now we got another one of these on our hands.
But it's kinda sad also that this is the perception they have of us now, as some ultra prudish culture who still glorifies violence (they're not exactly wrong)
But it's kinda sad also that this is the perception they have of us now, as some ultra prudish culture who still glorifies violence (they're not exactly wrong)
Disagree, it's what really sells it.
And yet many indie developers end up being labeled as "SJWs", while big game developers continue to slap asses and titties on everything.
Orniletter
Banned
Unironically ? The entire article is written sarcastically, it's meant to make fun of those who defended DoaX 3 and called everybody else SJW.
I can't stand the term political correctness as it has no meaning and never did, but if I understand correctly, you mean that part of the appeal with indie games is that the devs are more open with their communication to players, and don't have to stay "on brand". I agree, that's a cool thing.
Unfortunately, these sorts of reactions show that players have no idea how games are made, but instead of wanting to learn, they immediately accuse devs of "censorship". This makes devs not want to be open about how they make games. Meaning players won't see how games are really made. And the cycle continues.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
And it's just as ridiculous.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Was that really sarcastic? Because either my sarcasm detector ain't working or that article was indeed serious.