I just think that crippling GG's influence and reach requires social media platforms castrating them through scorched earth policies regarding discrimination and harassment on their platforms. I think Nintendo is far less consequential compared to this, though I still stand by the idea that they should have made a statement.
Alison Rapp Fired By Nintendo Discussion Thread -- Read Ground Rules in OP
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RomanticHeroX
Member
Totally! Just being a woman in the industry is really all it takes. In this case though it was the most visible woman at Treehouse to get mad at because people are really passionate about anime boobs.
Is it a "job" if you're self-employed? I'm inclined to say no, as she was probably enjoying her work because there was no boss and therefore nobody to be employed by. Is it "work" if you're enjoying it? Sometimes, but I'm inclined to say no again.
As such, yes I'm inclined to say it's irrelevant.
GatticusFinch
Member
I'm looking at the stuff right now. It's all directly from her own twitter page with her name on it. And if this is what Nintendo considered the "moonlighting" to be, yeah, it's shady. I'm guessing it violates the "no moonlighting" clause, because the ones I have seen in employment contracts would also forbid self-employment like that, and there are probably other clauses it would violate in most standard employment contracts (assuming she had one).
The cat is out of the bag elsewhere. We should be free to discuss it here, but I won't unless a mod says it's okay.
RichiRamjag
Member
I don't know, I'd take the opinion of someone I strongly disagree with over a run-in with any of those groups (one of whom is currently ending lives left and right in terror attacks).
Boy Wander
Member
What a hyperbolic load of old shite. You don't even know what she did to warrant being fired.it was likely something that would have gotten anyone fired, yet you choose to spin it into a mysogony charge. In the real world, not the world of libertine online anonymous forum posters, you get fired if you fuck up and break the terms of your employment contract. And that's exactly what she did.
skullmuffins
Banned
I think most of us know what you're referring to. My point is, it doesn't match her description of the moonlighting job (anonymous, no identifying information), so unless she's flat-out lying about what her second job entailed, the stuff you're seeing on her twitter isn't it. Anyway, this stuff was kinda delved into in the last thread before it was locked. I don't think I can say much more.
I don't think you're even addressing Lime's point. They are saying that the harassment Rapp received is something that Nintendo has helped cultivate via silence and over the last 30 years of targeted marketing and that they have a responsibility to speak out.
In fact, Lime barely said anything about the firing itself.
You seem to be responding to a completely different post.
I get the sense that you're missing the problem; Rapp and Nintendo appear at least to have parted amicably, but the crux of the issue comes from her being harassed and essentially doxxed. These are the things that seemingly brought a light to actions she took that resulted in her termination but asking why the platform holders didn't do anything to actually take responsibility for their platform and take actions to ban this behavior is a question that bears asking.
GatticusFinch
Member
Usually it is, yes, from the perspective of the employment contract. The reason being they don't want people freelancing and taking away business from the company, so they have to define it as self-employment as well.
Many of them even require that you seek approval to have the side job from the primary employer, which I would be shocked if that happened here.
GatticusFinch
Member
You would have to agree with me, though, that she would be fired for that, right? I mean, no company would stand for that when their own products are shown, especially not Nintendo.
Don't give up, preach. I think Nintendo should be criticized for their inaction and lack of support on Ms. Rapp's behalf and for her termination. She definitely deserve an apology and her job back should she want to. However, is there a win-win situation for either party without the boycotting of Nintendo products? I don't want to seem like an apologist, but what if Nintendo's hands are tied legally when it comes to reinstating Rapp's position and/or offering a formal apology without opening themselves up to litigation? I suppose that's the bed they've made by firing her, but I'd hate for the company's profits to suffer from something they can't deliver on. I wish I could jump on the hatewagon, but I can't.
LudicrousSpeed
Member
Given that Nintendo explicitly allows moonlighting but with certain conditions, and the thing you're talking about is most certainly not the second job, I don't think that's a conclusion you can draw.
Short of a statement in solidarity with her, there isn't much else they could or ought to have changed. Action and protection needs to come from social media moderation. If we were to assume they could put out statements in support for harassed employees, there's little reason to believe she still wouldn't be fired for doing something that violates company guidelines.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Explain what you think is wrong there.
SturokBGD
Member
That has nothing to do with this discussion, unless ISIS or the KKK are somehow known for specifically abusing girls who like to play video games. Right now I feel my daughter is in more danger from you than from ISIS or the KKK. You might want to work on that.
Boy Wander
Member
I think you're right! Sorry Lime. On mobile and thread is quite difficult to follow. There are two points here - one being that Nintendo could have spoken out. I don't disagree. But there are others spinning her dismissal as being related to GG which I don't buy. In fact, perhaps one reason that Ninty didn't speak up was because they didn't want to be seen to be defending her viewpoints on other matters.
weeeew.
I feel bad for her, but at my job it's the same. I'm the face of the company I work for, so piercings, visible tattoos, weird haircuts etc are not something I'd get if I want to keep my job.
Took me a bit to get my employer to get her used to a short beard, and probably just because I look worse without it.
GatticusFinch
Member
She says they do, Nintendo says they don't, and none of us have seen the policy. I practice employment law. I've seen other corporate policies that would not allow this, so my default assumption is that it does not just based on standard legal clause language, but I don't know 100%.
Still, if she came to my office looking for representation over this, there's no way I'm taking the case. My guess is they did her a favor by wording the way she was fired to keep that out of the public as much as possible.
It's related insofar as the actions that led to termination were illuminated by GG. That doesn't mean I think the company is wrong for firing someone for violating their agreement, but they don't exist in isolation.
Just being photos does not seem like grounds for dismissal to me because it is a very slippery slope. People could have a picture of them taken while at the beach, much of their skin exposed, using a 3DS/Kindle/etc. Completely normal activities, and a completely normal photography situation. I think income linked to photos (involving Nintendo products) is where the trouble brews.
Jelly Rajah
Banned
All she had to do was create a separate Twitter account not linked to her job at Nintendo if she wanted to post stuff about her photoshoots and ask people to buy costumes and other goods for her.
It's not rocket science really.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
So nothing wrong.
RichiRamjag
Member
I honestly doubt anyone is boycotting in massive droves mate. Especially enough to make significant profits suffer
LudicrousSpeed
Member
If the policy was no moonlighting, period, Nintendo's statement wouldn't go out of it's way to characterize it as "a second job in conflict with Nintendo's corporate culture", they'd just leave it as "a second job".
I feel like you should probably sort your priorities out. Teach your daughter not to say dumb shit on social media, and I'm sure she'll be fine. Even if someone does say something nasty, that's life. She'll survive. An encounter with ISIS, though? I'd be more worried about her limbs than her feelings.
Jelly Rajah
Banned
Posting revealing photos and also inviting people to buy her things on her official Twitter account? Please explain how that's professional, especially for someone in a PR position for a company that caters to all ages.
Sucks to lose a job you like but it doesn't seem as if Nintendo did anything wrong here. If a "questionable" group (say anonymous for example) discovered that I was embezzling funds at my job and disclosed it I doubt my employer would turn a blind eye and "support me" just because it was wrong for them to hack my computer. If Rapp was doing something she shouldn't have been doing and that came to light as part of a smear campaign she has to take some responsibility. It seems that she has done so even though some posters here are behaving as if Nintendo acted improperly.
RichiRamjag
Member
Because I stated that I'd rather come across someone with a shitty opinion rather than a member of Isis, I'm a danger to young girls?! That's some straight lunacy bro.
That kind of shit is the same type of nonsense that GG spews.
So we're back to reducing organized harassment to "people saying mean things on the internet", I see.
EatinOlives
Member
Nintendo already confirmed that they fired her over a moonlighting job, and Alison confirmed that she was under a pseudonym in said moonlighting job.
So obviously that has nothing to do with the tweet you posted. So the purpose of bringing this up on this thread is what, exactly? For character assassination?
Dumb shit being wanting equality? That's all it takes.
Official Twitter account? It's her personal one. At this point you're asking her to lead two separate lives. It's bad enough that she felt the need to use an alias for whatever the second job was even though it had nothing to do with video games.
She's more likely to come across harassment, misogyny, discrimination, and people that downplay these things (with frequency) than the KKK or ISIS.
RichiRamjag
Member
Organized harassment is terrible. Calling people a danger to children over simple statements is a pretty shitty too.
I outright mentioned it was rare and didn't excuse anything else. Being ignorant or sexist, doesn't outright start making everyone a dangerous threat. That was the only point I was making. All that talk about context in this thread and I get this kind of response...
benicillin
Banned
Yeah, pretty much exactly why people are bringing it up, even if they're doing it subconsciously.
GatticusFinch
Member
Usually they are not worded to exclude all second jobs, because then you get in trouble of one person doing something and not being punished and someone else being punished. You want them a little less restrictive than that to protect the company from claims of not enforcing the policy on say, a man, but enforcing it on a woman. Then you're in legal trouble.
Most of the time, they require pre-approval by the primary employer. Very common. They come up a lot in the medical context where doctors in residency try to pick up side work to make some cash, and the main employer has to approve because they don't want you working so hard you screw up your primary job.
Nobody's twitter accounts are separate from their jobs anymore. It'd be nice if they were maybe but that's just not how social media works.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
"Dumb shit" like...?
Dunno why the nature of the job that she was terminated over is being brought up. Maybe it was selling bitcoins, maybe it was dressup. Ultimately, whatever it was violated their internal guidelines leading to amicable termination. IMO the real issue is that the people causing these issues have gotten away with it on Twitter/Facebook/etc.
SturokBGD
Member
You cannot be serious. No, she'll not. Are you even close to understanding what the actual issue is here?
Besides, I say dumb shit on Twitter all the time. Nobody's trying to ruin my life because of it.
We're talking about harassment in the video game industry, "bro". Stop with the strawmen.
So we're back to comparing a global threat that kills hundreds of people a day to a bunch of people on Twitter that got a woman fired?
The hyperbole is ridiculous.
"Women deserve to be treated with equality and fairness." How dumb!
Publicly calling for laxer punishments for the consumers of child porn while you work for a company whose prime audience are parents and children?
RichiRamjag
Member
You should probably be a bit more descriptive of what you mean here.
People in corporate positions should always be careful of what they say, but saying "dumb shit" comes across the wrong way imo.
If you were a public face of a company, then you'd definitely run that risk (this situation aside).
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Of course.
It's completely transparent.
That's not why she was harassed.
EatinOlives
Member
Once again, those statements aren't why she was fired.
Jelly Rajah
Banned
If moonlighting is actually allowed at Nintendo (with a few reservations) and she was still fired for that reason, what does that indicate about the nature of her second job? Are you saying Nintendo is lying about why they fired her?
The nature of a PR position is that you are a face of the company both in person and on social media. Are you saying that it was professional for her to post those photos and solicit people for new dresses and other goodies?
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Again, anybody blaming her is part of the problem. This is exactly what Gamergate wants.
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