Support NeoGAF

[Heavy_D206]

I'm thinking Sony will probably hold off releasing it this year as to not draw consumers away from PSVR or to risk cannabalising its sales. What do you guys think?

PSVR is the real kicker here for me.

If there was no PSVR I would buy an updated console this year for sure, but I do want PSVR and that's already a $400 investment.

On the other hand is the updated console going to let PSVR perform better? If that's the case then I'll wait until the new console and PSVR gets bundled together.

All these unknowns are actually effecting my purchasing decisions. Sony hopefully addresses this at E3.

 

[Sanctuary]

Hence why I said, we will wait until Sony says something.

Regardless. All software going forward can be built to take advantage. It is not like your old shit you already played stops working. For me, KOTOR or the like did not change for me, just because my PC has always been able to make it run better as I upgraded. A great game is a great game.

Or is the new goalpost now, 'your older software performs the same, boo'?



Hahahaha

Enhanced BC isn't even the primary concern. It's the idea that going forward, the lion's share of new games will be developed with the PS4k in mind first. Even if they will "work" with current PS4 systems, who is going to want to buy the latest titles, only to play the inferior version? With last gen and this gen too so far, the focus has been graphics > everything else, and maintaining even a stable 30fps seems to be a lower priority.

It's already been mentioned multiple times in this thread, but how do you think those newer games that will have graphics pushed even more that still can't manage to break a stable 30fps would handle on the PS4? It's not impossible to imagine that they could be programmed to run on the "low" PC equivalent on the PS4 compared to the "high" on PS4k, but that again would be a first for a console.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yep I do game on PC.

Which is okay but you are not going to have the same perspective as a console only gamer.
And no matter what some people don't care about PC either way .
So this is chance for them to upgrade and keep more up to date .
Yes console were never like this but the were never media machines at one point in time .
Games were never F2P , season pass etc etc but things change .

Enhanced BC isn't even the primary concern. It's the idea that going forward, the lion's share of new games will be developed with the PS4k in mind first. Even if they will "work" with current PS4 systems, who is going to want to buy the latest titles, only to play the inferior version? With last gen and this gen too so far, the focus has been graphics > everything else, and maintaining even a stable 30fps seems to be a lower priority.

It's already been mentioned multiple times in this thread, but how do you think those newer games that will have graphics pushed even more that still can't manage to break a stable 30fps would handle on the PS4? It's not impossible to imagine that they could be programmed to run on the "low" PC equivalent on the PS4 compared to the "high" on PS4k, but that again would be a first for a console.

Answer me this do think devs would have not done that even if there was no PS4k.

 

[Larson Conway]

The problem with this kind of time line, with dual hardware launches, is the amount of money Sony's base has to spend on new hardware. There's a reason they don't want a repeat of FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY NINE. The console consumer market can only sustain so much. In your time line, those new hardware launches are going to cannibalise one another, lowering adoption rates across the board. Sony have been in the consumer hardware business for decades - they're not going to put themselves in a position where their hardware is competing against one another for your money, when the idea is to get everyone on board. If - and I'm not convinced yet - we see an honest, upgraded PS4, it'll be after the PSVR is on the shelves and had time to sell. "Better VR" is a marketing term people might understand and buy into, if VR is out and people have had a reasonable chance to experience it, to understand what "better VR" might look like.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[cyberheater]

Thinking about this further. If Sony does go through with this. I'm going to cancel my pre order for PSVR and just order a Oculus. It would be cheaper to do that then "upgrade" my PS4 and get a PSVR.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Now that is a very good point.

Having said that. If Sony does do this and MS does not then I'm never buying another Sony console again.

Oh no! You're going to have to apply for yet another tag change.

 

[lyrick]

Does that 2X GPU spec in the title simply imply a R7 265 like performance to a R9 285 like performance increase?

PC gamers don't even bother upgrading for small hops like that.

 

[wapplew]

To be honest 3 years upgrade option (not replacement to original model) is a fair one instead of 6 years to completely replace it, so console also can keep up with moving technology instead of being stuck in past. Hope Sony does better marketing to not to confuse about this PS4K by giving more attention to this. They just need to release this PS4K silently without much fuss and better market the Slim version of PS4 more which can reach sweet spot of $300 this year.

3 years hardware upgrade allow console keep up with hardware tech linearly, but it will make software stuck in the past, it also discourage major invention.

 

[cyberheater]

Oh no! You're going to have to apply for yet another tag change.

I've never applied for a tag or a tag change.

Does that 2X GPU spec in the title simply imply a R7 265 like performance to a R9 285 like performance increase?

PC gamers don't even bother upgrading for small hops like that.

But it could be the difference between 1080p at 30fps or 1080p at 60fps at the same graphical fidelity. That's quite a difference for console gamers.

 

[orochi91]

Thinking about this further. If Sony does go through with this. I'm going to cancel my pre order for PSVR and just order a Oculus. It would be cheaper to do that then "upgrade" my PS4 and get a PSVR.

Mate, this is happening.

They will go through with this.

If this is turning you off to such an extent, then I suggest you bail out of console gaming.

It's clearly not catering to your needs.

 

[Sanctuary]

Answer me this do think devs would have not done that even if there was no PS4k.

I don't understand what you're asking.

 

[Putty]

f**k it, I'm in.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Enhanced BC isn't even the primary concern. It's the idea that going forward, the lion's share of new games will be developed with the PS4k in mind first. Even if they will "work" with current PS4 systems, who is going to want to buy the latest titles, only to play the inferior version? With last gen and this gen too so far, the focus has been graphics > everything else, and maintaining even a stable 30fps seems to be a lower priority.

It's already been mentioned multiple times in this thread, but how do you think those newer games that will have graphics pushed even more that still can't manage to break a stable 30fps would handle on the PS4? It's not impossible to imagine that they could be programmed to run on the "low" PC equivalent on the PS4 compared to the "high" on PS4k, but that again would be a first for a console.

You are answering your own questions. And yes it is a first, consoles are finally evolving to every other tech luxury item in this world. It is due time.

Most are not losing sleep because they can't be dual wielding Titans running 4K making their one card 970 setup at 1440p (sometimes) look like last gen in comparison. The same will happen here. There will be options for those in various brackets of needs and wants.

Being that I just got a 4K TV. I am now getting happy I may not have to wait until the damned PS5 to get a UHD Blu-ray player that can still play my PS4 library, and possibly enhance future titles as well. At the same price as a stand alone UHD Blu-ray player.

Sounds reminiscent of the PS3 (Blu-ray), PS2 (DVD) in that respects as far as media.

Which is okay but you are not going to have the same perspective as a console only gamer.
And no matter what some people don't care about PC either way .
So this is chance for them to upgrade and keep more up to date .
Yes console were never like this but the were never media machines at one point in time .
Games were never F2P , season pass etc etc but things change .

Exactly.

Answer me this do think devs would have not done that even if there was no PS4k.

It would be just like it was every 3D console since the 3DO, etc., but now there will be a select few who have something to point the finger at. "It is the 4K's fault, not my '6 year old pc parts' in my 5 year old PS4."

 

[pahamrick]

And how much does it cost you to upgrade your GPU each time?

It obviously depends on the GPU you buy.

it can be anywhere from $100 to $1000 dollars.

I've upgraded my GPU once, and spend $340 (GTX 970) but got $180 worth of games free with it (Batman AK, Witcher 3, MGSV) and I probably won't upgrade again for quite a few years.

 

[El_Chino]

2000 USD. Like all compuiter components.

Sarcasm is not appreciated, I also have a gaming pc so I know the costs.

Hardly the point. When I upgrade my GPU I'm getting performance far in excess of current consoles.



Yep I do game on PC.

I mean we're talking about the cost of owning a PS4K aren't we? I think that is the point. It's not about the performance you're getting for it, it's about the exclusives you're getting with it as well

That entirely depends on the user, the games they play, and the settings they hope to achieve. And, you can always sell your old components as well detracting from the upgrade cost. The first computer I ever built cost $650, played most games at 1080p on High settings, and sold for $500 three years later which went into building the computer I still have today.

To get a decent performing 1080p high/max settings gaming pc for modern games, you're looking at $300-$450 just for the gpu.

Thinking about this further. If Sony does go through with this. I'm going to cancel my pre order for PSVR and just order a Oculus. It would be cheaper to do that then "upgrade" my PS4 and get a PSVR.

Why? You know the PSVR would work perfectly fine for the original PS4 right? I don't understand this logic one bit.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

3 years hardware upgrade allow console keep up with hardware tech linearly, but it will make software stuck in the past, it also discourage major invention.

Current consoles model does that even more .(along with the PC user base)
Having to wait 6 to7 years for upgrade hold back things.
And this gen is even worst since the consoles already behind by a fair amount.

I don't understand what you're asking.

What i am saying is even if there was no PS4k devs would have push the hardware either way .
I am asking you if you don't think that was the case .

 

[Krisprolls]

Thinking about this further. If Sony does go through with this. I'm going to cancel my pre order for PSVR and just order a Oculus. It would be cheaper to do that then "upgrade" my PS4 and get a PSVR.

I'll do the opposite and never upgrade my PC again.

They'll be basically the same thing anyway now, except PS will be cheaper, more convenient, with none of the PC hassle. You get every console exclusive too.

 

[Keihart]

Having a 7-8 year long cycle was stupid anyway. Mid-cycle hardware refresh? Yes please.

Phone business showed there'll always be people who stick to low-mid end devices and those who only buy top flagships. Bring on the power of choice.

i will not argue that there is not money to be made with the phone model but i find horrible for the consumer, you get less and less bang for your buck constantly.

 

[Rosur]

If it helps VR I'll probably end up getting it though reckon I'll wait until black friday the year after it comes out or if there's a good upgrade program for it.

Though hope its easy to transfer digital content over to it (such as PT).

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

What if the PS5 was compatible with PS4k upgraded titles? It'd be a nice way to kickstart a gen, for those who missed out on certain PS4 / PS4k titles, to be able to play enhanced games at launch rather than wait for remasters to plug the schedule gaps.

 

[orochi91]

f**k it, I'm in.

Same.

Hoping for a white PS4K model.

Would like to own a white console at least once in my life.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but it seems like there's one other aspect that no one seems to be talking about. The possibility of games going past the $60 price tag. Think about it. If publishers have to spend more money, time and resources on the PS4K version of the game while also spending money, time and resources on the current PS4 version of the game, publishers could easily increase the price to $70 or even $80.

Then what? See, shit like this is exactly why I stopped collecting games and trade them in once im done. All these companies care about is money in greedy little hands and yeah, I understand that but sometimes, it simply makes no sense doing something like this that could end up costing you more money in the long run. I'm tired of all these publishers trying to get an insane amount of money from me on every game or console.

Consoles should last as is for at least five years, period. Not three which is fucking insulting and a slap in the face to everyone who has purchased a PS4 since launch.

PS4 is NOT a PC and shouldn't become like one. If I wanted to go through the hassle and cost of upgrading, I would play games on PC.

The cell phone comparison is fucking horrible and doesn't apply at all. A cell phone can be used for a lot of stuff including work related stuff not to mention the small little detail that it's portable and fits in your pocket. Hmmm, who the hell is going to be carrying around their PS4 with them??? And even if you did, where the hell are you going to plug it in???

Seriously, this mid-gen upgraded console crap is a fucking joke and if Sony does go through with this, im hoping that the backlash is worse than what Microsoft had three years ago because honestly, despite being heavily favored towards PS4, Sony would fucking deserve it for being a huge egomaniac money hungry greedy company who still hasn't learned from previous mistakes.

And I hope PSVR (well, all VR to be honest) bombs too. Seriously, all this bullshit needs to be eliminated and people wonder why a lot of gamers would easily prefer the SNES/Genesis era over what gaming is today. Back then, no season passes, no billion patches, no rushed or broken games, no dlc, no micro-transactions, no companion apps, no locked out or cut out content, etc. Just put the game in and play.

Hopefully, Phil Spencer has enough say and power to not do the same thing or they can fuck off too. UGH.

 

[cyberheater]

I'll do the opposite and never upgrade my PC again.

Actually. You might be right. It might be the better way to go. LOL.

 

[pahamrick]

To get a decent performing 1080p high/max settings gaming pc for modern games, you're looking at $200+ just for the gpu.

Fixed that for you. Could probably go even lower if looking at refurbed or used parts.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Does that 2X GPU spec in the title simply imply a R7 265 like performance to a R9 285 like performance increase?

PC gamers don't even bother upgrading for small hops like that.

I think the 2X GPU power phrase was just used to get across this will be a notable upgrade.

I think it will be a all new APU based on Zen/Polaris.

 

[Demanufacture]

I'll do the opposite and never upgrade my PC again.

They'll be basically the same thing anyway now, except PS will be cheaper, more convenient, with none of the PC hassle. You get every console exclusive too.

But you don't get any of the benefits of PC like modding, free online, cheaper games, limitless options for FOV and the like and an overall better VR experience.

 

[orochi91]

Actually. You might be right. It might be the better way to go. LOL.

-__-"

 

[Keihart]

This. I've been running the same ram, motherboard and cpu for 6 years. Only thing I've changed is the GPU.

Yup, this didn't used to be case because of how fast things used to change, but now is a lot slower, wich is why i find baffling that people are so fond of fast iterations if they know how tech is moving today, wich i would assume since they do seem to care about it.

 

[El_Chino]

Fixed that for you. Could probably go even lower if looking at refurbed or used parts.

For modern games? Lol.

The Division
The witcher 3
Crysis 3
GTA V

 

[badb0y]

This probably the best idea that Sony has come up with. Upgrade every 3 years but end support on previous console after 6 years. This way you can EOL the PS4 when PS5 comes out but keep supporting the PS4K for 3 more years and then EOL that shit when PS5K comes out. Every consoles would have 6 years of support from launch and every new iteration would support the entire library from PS4 forward. Gives consumers choice with a high end product and a mainstream product.

I'm ready. This is basically how PC is broken up right now and people going "I'm going PC." Y'all mothafuckas don't know what you talking about.

 

[pahamrick]

For modern games? Lol.

The Division
The witcher 3
Crysis 3
GTA V

A GTX 960 4GB can be had for under $200.

So yes, for modern games.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

This probably the best idea that Sony has come up with. Upgrade every 3 years but end support on previous console after 6 years. This way you can EOL the PS4 when PS5 comes out but keep supporting the PS4K for 3 more years and then EOL that shit when PS5K comes out. Every consoles would have 6 years of support from launch and every new iteration would support the entire library from PS4 forward. Gives consumers choice with a high end product and a mainstream product.

I'm ready. This is basically how PC is broken up right now and people going "I'm going PC." Y'all mothafuckas don't know what you talking about.

That sounds good in theory but what if the 5 year stagnation happens again like with 28nm?

 

[El_Chino]

A GTX 960 4GB can be had for under $200.


So yes, for modern games.

Let's see how long that Gtx 960 lasts.

 

[orochi91]

I think the 2X GPU power phrase was just used to get across this will be a notable upgrade.

I think it will be a all new APU based on Zen/Polaris.

I hope they patch UC4 to take advantage of that extra power.

In fact, it should be the main highlight for the PS4K, along with other big hitters like FF15 and Horizon: ZD.

 

[Demanufacture]

Let's see how long that Gtx 960 lasts.

About as long as the PS4 did lol.

 

[thuway]

I hope they patch UC4 to take advantage of that extra power.

In fact, it should be the main highlight for the PS4K, along with other big hitters like FF15 and Horizon: ZD.

How about Red Dead Redemption 2? I can dream.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I am baffled at some PC gamers against this.

They should be universally loving this shit. The biggest complaint in PC gaming on the interwebz, is that consoles are holding advancements back on the PC versions of games due to it being the base target.

Well, if consoles can have incremental upgrades for performance (like all tech does), then that would translate into the PC having less hold backs then.

Or is it more of a platform/confirmation struggle in the head at play, where even some PC gamers now are second guessing sticking in that ecosystem if consoles can offer similar mid/high end options? Seems a few are going out of their way to discredit this, but in the same breath talk about how they can just 'upgrade their pc'.

Confusing to say the least. This could be a good thing for PC gaming tech with the games having a higher ceiling for the base target.

 

[pahamrick]

Let's see how long that Gtx 960 lasts.

Provided people don't mind locking to 30fps, you know, like consoles -- probably for quite some time -- even longer if then turn down settings to match console settings.

 

[wapplew]

Current consoles model does that even more .
Having to wait 6 to7 years for upgrade hold back things.
And this gen is even worst since the consoles already behind by a fair amount.

If you talk about higher res and high frame rate as software advancement then yes, console model is bad at that.
But I don't see those as software advancement. I talking about game build around 512MB RAM vs games build around 8GB.
Quick iteration hardware will slowdown software because game have to build with 8GB in mind going forward, this mean latest tech can't have more animation, or more dynamic AI, it will be same game, just high res texture, high frame rate, prettier shadow.
No gameplay related tech can be add to the newer machine.

3 years iteration only allow tech advance in a linear way. Faster CPU, faster or more ram, faster GPU, it's predictable a boring.

 

[Korezo]

I'll do the opposite and never upgrade my PC again.

They'll be basically the same thing anyway now, except PS will be cheaper, more convenient, with none of the PC hassle. You get every console exclusive too.

What do you mean by pc and ps4 will be the same thing?

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Let's see how long that Gtx 960 lasts.

I'm just gonna bask in the irony for a minute here

About as long as the PS4 did lol.

hnnnnnnnnnnngggh

*pelvic thrust

 

[orochi91]

How about Red Dead Redemption 2? I can dream.

Gonna need that RDR HD remaster first!

 

[CJVaughn]

To get a decent performing 1080p high/max settings gaming pc for modern games, you're looking at $300-$450 just for the gpu.

This isn't even remotely true. You can buy a brand new GTX 960 for $190, which can play almost every modern game at 1080p/30fps at MAX settings, with even higher FPS if you lower it to HIGH settings as I mentioned in my original comment. And lets not even get into the fact the you can buy refurbished parts from reputable sources if you're on a budget.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I hope they patch UC4 to take advantage of that extra power.

In fact, it should be the main highlight for the PS4K, along with other big hitters like FF15 and Horizon: ZD.

I wonder if ND are already working on the patch now or even have it ready to go? I bet their next game is being worked on with the new dev kit! (drool).

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but it seems like there's one other aspect that no one seems to be talking about. The possibility of games going past the $60 price tag. Think about it. If publishers have to spend more money, time and resources on the PS4K version of the game while also spending money, time and resources on the current PS4 version of the game, publishers could easily increase the price to $70 or even $80.

Then what? See, shit like this is exactly why I stopped collecting games and trade them in once im done. All these companies care about is money in greedy little hands and yeah, I understand that but sometimes, it simply makes no sense doing something like this that could end up costing you more money in the long run. I'm tired of all these publishers trying to get an insane amount of money from me on every game or console.

Consoles should last as is for at least five years, period. Not three which is fucking insulting and a slap in the face to everyone who has purchased a PS4 since launch.

PS4 is NOT a PC and shouldn't become like one. If I wanted to go through the hassle and cost of upgrading, I would play games on PC.

The cell phone comparison is fucking horrible and doesn't apply at all. A cell phone can be used for a lot of stuff including work related stuff not to mention the small little detail that it's portable and fits in your pocket. Hmmm, who the hell is going to be carrying around their PS4 with them??? And even if you did, where the hell are you going to plug it in???

Seriously, this mid-gen upgraded console crap is a fucking joke and if Sony does go through with this, im hoping that the backlash is worse than what Microsoft had three years ago because honestly, despite being heavily favored towards PS4, Sony would fucking deserve it for being a huge egomaniac money hungry greedy company who still hasn't learned from previous mistakes.

And I hope PSVR (well, all VR to be honest) bombs too. Seriously, all this bullshit needs to be eliminated and people wonder why a lot of gamers would easily prefer the SNES/Genesis era over what gaming is today. Back then, no season passes, no billion patches, no rushed or broken games, no dlc, no micro-transactions, no companion apps, no locked out or cut out content, etc. Just put the game in and play.

Hopefully, Phil Spencer has enough say and power to not do the same thing or they can fuck off too. UGH.

You need to chill the fuck out. All that wild speculation is making you upset. Wait see to what actually happens before you lose your mind or stroke out.

 

[Keihart]

I am baffled at some PC gamers against this.

They should be universally loving this shit. The biggest complaint in PC gaming on the interwebz, is that consoles are holding advancements back on the PC versions of games due to it being the base target.

Well, if consoles can have incremental upgrades for performance (like all tech does), then that would translate into the PC having less hold backs then.

Or is it more of a platform/confirmation struggle in the head at play, where even some PC gamers now are second guessing sticking in that ecosystem if consoles can offer similar mid/high end options? Seems a few are going out of their way to discredit this, but in the same breath talk about how they can just 'upgrade their pc'.

Confusing to say the least. This could be a good thing for PC gaming tech with the games having a higher ceiling for the base target.

I think that this would be amazing for PC gaming wich is why i would start investing more in it.

 

[SneakersSO]

Posted this in the wrong thread lol.

So, I had heard some rumblings about a new Playstation, but it was never clear whether it was just Sony doing R&D on a new Playstation, or an iterated PS4. I haven't been privy to any clear information on a new PS4, but judging that people in the retail sector are being briefed on it, I imagine its both real & coming relatively soon.

I was actually taken aback when MS had come out with their talk of having a new iterated Xbox, or multiple boxes called Xbox, about a month ago. We got into some heavy discussions on the development feasibility of what supporting that new console would mean in that thread. Everything I said there still rings true here in PS4's case. Looking back on it, I think GopherD's impression is correct, especially after what Phil Spencer said this last week. MS likely heard of Sony's plans,since word had been going around the industry in some form or another (i'd heard of it about late last year, although it wasn't clear if it was a new PS console, or an iterated PS4), and they likely are trying to get in front of it from a PR standpoint. I guess we'll find out this E3 one way or another.

 

[Terbinator]

And I hope PSVR (well, all VR to be honest) bombs too.

Why?

Seriously, all this bullshit needs to be eliminated and people wonder why a lot of gamers would easily prefer the SNES/Genesis era over what gaming is today. Back then, no season passes, no billion patches, no rushed or broken games

Wrong.

no dlc, no micro-transactions, no companion apps, no locked out or cut out content

But there have been expansion packs/DLC for eons. You'd prefer to not have the option of more content if you choose?

Just put the game in and play.

We can do that now, but with after sale support.

 

[StoopKid]

Why do so many PC gamers come across like sleazy car salesmen so often? Do you work off commission? I've never seen a group so concerned with where strangers play their video games.

'psst, hey kid, I got this 970, reeeeal cheap.'

Lol your completely right.

 

[DigSCCP]

I dont like at all of this whole idea.
Anyway Im seeing some talking about PS4K canibaling PSVR.
I think Sony could go this way to not hurt the PS4 and PSVR sales this year:
1) E3 no mention of PS4K, Sony focus on PSVR and announce GoW 4 "PS4 OG Edition".
2) October PSVR release
3) November all AAA hits releases + PS4 price cut at Black Friday
4) PSX December, GoW 4 "PS4K Edition" trailer showing nice improvements. All exclusives from PS4 OG get patches to PS4K announced. Announcement that PS4 OG Black Friday price (that still going from black friday to PSX) is now official PS4 price.
5) PS4K releases same day of GoW 4, PS4K Exclusive Bundle.