geordiemp
Member
Its the ones they cannot show cos they dont run well probably.
Elite dangerous nice settings ? Project cars ? And the ones that maybe could be a killer app like no mans sky has no chance on OG Ps4.
Who knows but Sony.
PS4K information (~2x GPU power w/ clock+, new CPU, price, tent. Q1 2017)
- Thread starter OsirisBlack
- Start date
Its the ones they cannot show cos they dont run well probably.
Elite dangerous nice settings ? Project cars ? And the ones that maybe could be a killer app like no mans sky has no chance on OG Ps4.
Who knows but Sony.
Insane Metal
Member
Probably (almost certainly) PS4K and NX...
Sony will absolutely be paying attention to this reaction and addressing this when they officially reveal it.
PdotMichael
Banned
I don't even know why you are quoting my post.
David Ricardo
Member
I'm expecting the VR differences to be huge. You've seen what's being shown now in PSVR, I suppose. Well, PS4k would be able to run GTA VI, Red Dead Redemption 2, Battlefield 5, etc.. in VR.
CosmicQueso
Member
As unreasonable as such concern is, I'm sure they'll address it. When they announce it. Sony is generally best in class at introducing these types of things to consumers.
They have tens of millions of consoles out there. Thinking that they're going to throw up a middle finger and make fart noises telling those people that have bought a PS4 and the millions of people in developing territories that won't be adopting 4k anytime soon that are considering a PS4, to take a hike and buy a 4k TV and a PS4K if they want to play the latest games is unwarranted and, honestly, ludicrous.
Seriously. This is the company that overnight flipped a handing-a-game-to-your-friend video that cemented the PS4s early position in the market. These people know what they're doing, clearly.
I have no doubt Sony knows they have to have clear messaging when announcing this thing. I say get Cerny on stage again to do it honestly.
That said I only want them to announce IF they have substantial info. This isn't something they can just say "oh hey PS4k out March 2017." and just leave it at that.
That said I only want them to announce IF they have substantial info. This isn't something they can just say "oh hey PS4k out March 2017." and just leave it at that.
It's all but confirmed at this point.
Keihart
Member
i though you were impliying that 3 years is long and enough time for a console generation and questioning the concerns about the short period.
I'm still guessing that there's more to the 4k output than simple upscaling. One of the rumors said that not all of the extra power was open to devs. If they're doing some type of 4k reconstruction they'll likely have guidelines about the elements to improve for the final output. Something like higher levels of texture filtering and advanced AA at native 1080p could be necessary in that situation and make up most of the difference.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I'm starting to believe this is real.
CosmicQueso
Member
It's going to be one hell of a press conference if they decide to go that way. Trying to communicate all of these things in a clear and appealing manner will certainly be a big task!
PdotMichael
Banned
Could you explain these in more detail? What do you mean by less devices - less options? And how far back are we talking with Nvidia support? What do you mean by better SDK tools? What do you mean by fragmentation?
Solrac
Member
I have to remember that ps4 had like 0 new games until year 2 ? and all of them were post gen ports and remastered ? with that being said, tell me then.. who would buy a console on release ? I think all of us will wait a couple years to buy the "4.5 version "
Keihart
Member
I guess i understand what you are saying, but that is why i commented on how long games take to develope and how only there is one real wave of games for that console. I mean, is PS360 generation still goign since there are still games coming out for it?
Why is it hilarious? It makes sense that if consoles are going to be about "upgrading" and "ecosystems", then someone would consider a platform that offers more control and benefits with those things. I don't even personally like the idea of gaming on PC, but now I'm at least thinking about it.
blue_phazon
Member
To get the new shiny thing. I don't understand people who buy consoles on launch in general so I never had this issue
Crimson_Gold
Member
The new console age is upon us. AMD has led the charge into the future. This should be interesting.
BTW I clarified a bit more in an edit. All just speculation on my end but I think it makes sense.
Or maybe people are complaining for more valid concerns than you're giving this credit for.
I wonder if this is new thread worthy? Eh probably not. Best to keep all of this in here I supposed.
Hopefully so.
They also made early PS3, let's not go full fanboy here. Companies can fuck up and they need to be held to account regardless of the great memories or their position in our gaming circle.
Consoles have always been closed boxes, fixed hardware, this is erasing an advantage of that kind of closed ecosystem, especially one that is single publisher controlled like Sony's ecosystem is.
Have you not been paying attention to console gaming? I feel like this kind of extreme attitude mocking people concerned and rightly angry at this type of revelation is the Sony apologists version of the XB1 reveal apologists.
We even have IGN talking about how "its not a big deal, its just like PC!" the same way many were talking about how online connected they were already so XB1's concept wasn't a big deal.
I understand thinking the outcome won't be as bad as the end times extreme people are saying, but mocking those who are very concerned about the impact this could have on the broader market and how the people already invested in the PS4 ecosystem who dont want to upgrade are going to be handled are being ridiculous.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That was not what I meant, I was being cheeky about people saying they don't want optional upgrades, then yell they are switching to platforms with... optional upgrades.
It's a disingenuous argument when said in the same breath.
I have no interest in PC, but i don't see how its a disingenuous argument...they come to Sony for a closed platform with console benefits. If those benefits are no longer around anywhere, why stay on that closed platform? New negatives and the positives have been taken away.
So those people are backed into a corner and would rather boycott and get their games elsewhere than buy into what they see as a bad business decision. Options are obviously limited if you still want to enjoy gaming, but that's what happens when gaming is dominated by few actors.
Read some of the posts about how they hope PS4 and PSVR sales tank and Sony basically goes out of business because they are being greedy and slapping us in the face. All because of a new model that will exist alongside the PS4. There is nothing anti consumer about having options. Now if development of PS4 games stops 3 years then yeah I agree, but we all know that isn't happening. People are acting like Sony is sneaking in their living rooms and shitting on their carpet while they sleep. I may not buy it day 1 either and I'm fine with that, cause I have the option.
KojiKnight
Member
Not really... The benefits of PC are 30 years of BC, open platform, can be used for a lot more than gaming... at the cost of having to upgrade reasonably often.
The console verse is more stable, but it comes with it's own draw backs like less BC, can't be used for multiple purposes, etc etc... But the price of entry is stable, and you're 'guaranteed' a long lasting piece of tech.
If one of the major benefits of owning a console is removed, then why bother with all of the downsides of a console when you could just move to PC. While PC's downsides are the same, we now are getting to the point where consoles may have the same downsides as PC, as well as the walled garden problems on top of it. It makes PC a LOT more attractive.
What you see is "I'm leaving X because Y, even if Z also has Y problem." But what it really is is "I'm leaving X because Y was the only thing keeping me staying with all of the downsides of A B and C, so even if Z also has Y, I don't have to deal with those!"
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Let's just say, I am just a skeptical with people saying that on a 'hardcore-ish' gaming site, and being genuine, as you are towards Sony just outright dropping the PS4 like yesterday's news.
I undersrand.
To be fair, they have been saying and doing the right things for the most part, and Sony does not have a track record for dropping their large install bases like a lot of other tech companies do. Pretty sure every system they made so far has has 10+ years of support. They understand better than anyone the licensing cash flow of console software.
We will see what they have to say officially.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Y'all don't have to explain to me the benefits of gaming on the PC. I surely understand, and thus why I have been doing so since the Commodore 64 on up to the x86, as well as just hooked it up to my 4K set.
But to think every single one of those one sentence, with no structure drive-by's are 100% and not just adding noise to a otherwise great discussion, I would have probably better odds at Vegas, lol.
But to think every single one of those one sentence, with no structure drive-by's are 100% and not just adding noise to a otherwise great discussion, I would have probably better odds at Vegas, lol.
Let's just say, I am just a skeptical with people saying that on a 'hardcore-ish' gaming site, and being genuine, as you are towards Sony just outright dropping the PS4 like yesterday's news.
I never thought Sony would drop the PS4 itself in a year. I said i want them to MANDATE that every developer including every third party, will support PS4 as the base SKU and provide enhancements to the PS4K on a case by case basis.
You can't really tell what third parties will do when they get their hands on more powerful hardware. That's why its important that Sony comes out strong in support of PS4 owners to every third party working in this ecosystem that PS4 is still the base minimum standard of development.
It puts pressure on those developers, but Sony knew this when making the upgraded unit, that is one reason why i don't like it.
Hopefully your right but like i've been saying..the logistics for this unless they continue how they have been, (aka developing with PS4 first and foremost) is going to be an issue.
CosmicQueso
Member
Two things:
1) I don't at all understand how the PS3 launch and a potential PS4K are at all related or comparable.
2) Yes. When a company "fucks up" they need to be held to account. But what does do that holding and accounting? The market. The same market you said you don't trust. In your PS3 example, the post early adopter market told Sony that $599 was not a mass market price point. So, why don't you trust the market again?
As for your 3rd party mandate, that's just not realistic. But fortunately the market, with the tens of millions of PS4 consoles out in the market, makes the likelihood of a pub going only after PS4k is extremely small. If anyone, first party would be the group to do so.
But continue to be concerned if you wish. It is certainly your right to be so.
-hadouken
Member
People who don't want to upgrade will not be impacted by a mid model revision, as you can bet your house that devs will prioritise the PS4 whilst it has the larger playerbase - it's simple business. It will take years for PS4K to overtake the PS4 (maybe never), and by that time the luddites may be thankful that Sony had the foresight to move the game on.
The concern in these threads boils down to this: I don't want to upgrade, or I can't afford to upgrade, therefore if I can't have it, no one can. Thankfully all the jealous bellyaching on gaf is unrepresentative of the broader market. There's room for premium tier products - I can't wait to sell my PS4 and get in line for the upgrade. Looking forward to 1080P native games with more consistent performance, but hey, for those who find that unappealing - continue to enjoy your PS4.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
/tips cap
Okay. I just don't see why the idea of someone leaving the console space because of this is such a knee-slapper itt.
The PS4K's reception will be in part be dependent on Sony's attitude towards the consumer base they already have and how receptive they are to concerns that that base may have.
It can either be a disaster or an averted disaster, and Sony not caring about the consumer when they thought everyone would get a second job and buy into a 600 PS3 just because of their previous success was an example of fucking up back at that time. Just like PS4 was the opposite.
They need to show tact and understanding in this reveal as well.
??? I don't understand what your saying here.
He's saying the market pretty much rejected a $599 PS3. That market rejection lead to the refocusing of Sony that we have now. He's asking why you don't trust that same market?
Well if you don't see the humor in some of the meltdown posts then I don't know what to tell you. Whether you agree or not some of the reactions are comedy gold.
CosmicQueso
Member
Exactly.
Sony can say whatever it wants. But if it doesn't deliver an appealing product, the market is what will provide that feedback. That is what holds them to account.
And if the market embraces the PS4K? Well, then you can continue to be unhappy about it, but your unhappiness won't mean much to Sony.
I detest mobile games, so I give them no money. Same with MOBAs. However, no company in either space can give a flying screw because the market says I'm in the minority. Same thing here.
Negotiator
Banned
Apple has less devices to support and iOS is deemed to be more optimized than Android because of that.
I'm talking about abandoning Kepler in favor of Maxwell for example (GTX 970 >>> GTX 780 Ti).
iOS = consoles = closed platform/ecosystem
Android = PC = open platform, more fragmentation/anarchy
94% of games are 1080p, and the performance we see in games right now on PS4 are far more consistent than the 7th gen's games, either at the beginning or at the end. I don't see the real point of that quip at the end.
But to your main point, they are not going to discontinue the original PS4, if they also claim that the PS4 will be their main SKU. And if they do a "SLIM" version with 16 finfet at 250 or something like that, that just means the original PS4 will be even more enticing.
So i don't think that if they plan to support PS4 in that manner as a lower cost alternative, PS4K would get the kind of support your referring to based on pure sales numbers.
My concern has been developers and whether or not they will adhere to that. And how strong Sony comes out on forcing developers to prioritize the original PS4, with PC like general upgrades to performance or resolution for the 4K crowd.
Still I don't understand what you or he is asking. Your saying if the market 'accepts' a stopgap power increase, the original owners should not be considered in regards to support or priority?
I don't trust that things will just happen 'according to market forces'. People took Sony to task rightly so over early PS3, but that not every situation, or a majority of situations where things come out to the betterment of the industry just by leaving things as is.
We already have confirmation from the op that certain games (God of war 4, and deep down) are being developed for the ps4k and then being ported down to the ps4. After the release of this new system, I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot more developers start doing the same.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly your exsctly, lol.
Hexa
Member
How long are they going to get shit for that lol? I mean the people that said the things people point to as examples of 'arrogant' Sony aren't with Playstation anymore. Kaz definitely redeemed himself and is now heading all of Sony. And both Kutaragi and Tretton are gone.
I trust House, Cerny, and Shu and SIE for now. I see no reason to doubt them since they haven't really completely fucked up since wonderbook.
A company that has made a string of good decisions is more than capable of making a bad one
It happens all the time in this industry
Again your biggest concern I assume is that devs and publishers will abandon the OG PS4. That's not going to be the case. By the end of the year there will be probably something like 60 million PS4's sold. No one is going to forget that market and games will probably be made with the OG ps4 in mind with them adding a few bells and whistles to the PS4k like better resolution and framerate for one.
Again he's saying if the market accepts this then those who are upset have to deal with it. But that doesn't mean the PS4 will be obsolete. PS4k will more than likely be a slow burner anyway with only the hardcore opting in at first.