Sanders on breaking up banks "I have not studied... the legal implications of that"

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Honestly, if Bernie Sanders could only do one single thing in his term - all that would matter in the end - is removing money from politics. Strict anti-corruption laws in your politics, especially enforcing a limit on political contributions to something like $5000 and not allowing non-direct contributions.

That's not really germane to the discussion at hand when it comes to policy proposals dealing with banking regulation, not political financial regulation.

Oh, and just because people confuse it. I'm talking about the actual definition of first world, i.e. first world - "West", second world - "East", third world - "Others". I don't think US is ahead of second world countries in terms of social policies and quality of life. The new first world is Scandinavia, Denmark, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, etc.

That's not how the three worlds model works. It's the US and her allies (principally, but not limited to, NATO) in the first world, the Soviet Union and her allies (principally, but not limited to, the Warsaw Pact) in the second, and the rest of the world in the third.

It's a relic of the Cold War, and has nothing to do with development levels.
 
Here's her regulatory plan. https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/10/08/wall-street-work-for-main-street/
It's a bit under 5,000 words.

I look forward to your detailed analysis.

Start with Dodd-Frank being a joke of a regulation legislation. It's ineffective.

See this as a quick example of how Dodd-Frank doesn't work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtSMLgaW6U

You don't even have a grasp of how money in USA politics works.

The problem, even from a "get money out of politics" angle isn't political contributions. That is regulated by law. It's Super PACs and the millions being spent by billionaires on flooding the airwaves with their agenda. Hillary's "speeches" are a drop in the flood that is people like Soros and the Koch Brothers, but keep railing on her giving a speech at one her senatorial home state's biggest firms. How awful!

The Clinton have collected a total of $153 million from speaking fees. Clintons have done very well for their donors, especially Wall Street. Show me something they've done to harm their donors. Not what they've said, but what they've done. Your entire political system is corrupt.

Here is how you actually do campaign financing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_political_financing_in_Canada

And it's not perfect, there's still some loopholes that are and need to be cleaned up but it rarely has much influence.

EDIT:


That's not really germane to the discussion at hand when it comes to policy proposals dealing with banking regulation, not political financial regulation.

Sure it is. Any decent regulation against Wall Street is directly tied to political financial regulation.

That's not how the three worlds model works. It's the US and her allies (principally, but not limited to, NATO) in the first world, the Soviet Union and her allies (principally, but not limited to, the Warsaw Pact) in the second, and the rest of the world in the third.

It's a relic of the Cold War, and has nothing to do with development levels.

That's what I just said, the actual definition is "West", "East", and "Others". I was saying based on the wrong definition, in which most people use those terms to define quality of life and income of the citizens, i.e. third world = poor, I don't think US belongs in the first world category anymore.
 
EDIT - Oops. I was expecting someone to respond by the time I was done this second response, sorry for the double post.
 
Start with Dodd-Frank being a joke of a regulation legislation. It's ineffective.

See this as a quick example of how Dodd-Frank doesn't work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtSMLgaW6U


The Clinton have collected a total of $153 million from speaking fees. Clintons have done very well for their donors, especially Wall Street. Show me something they've done to harm their donors. Not what they've said, but what they've done. Your entire political system is corrupt.

Here is how you actually do campaign financing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_political_financing_in_Canada

And it's not perfect, there's still some loopholes that are and need to be cleaned up but it rarely has much influence.

Holy shit. I had no idea it was that much.
 
I would be electing Bernie. Not electing 'people Bernie would hire'.

Seems low info on his signature issue.

Yeah. Absolutely not comparing him to Donald Trump, but people should apply the criticisms of his approach (low-info/"I'll have people to handle these things") to Bernie when appropriate. Hell, to any candidate.

EDIT - Oops. I was expecting someone to respond by the time I was done this second response, sorry for the double post.

I've been there
 
she has actually gone into quite some detail about what she wants to do. and she has propped up and supported the dems both financially and strategically as a means to help do it
What I see (as a mid-30s guy) is that a lot of young (as in 20-25 y.o.) folks don't like her basically because she's a current-day Democrat Dick Nixon. Though, mind you, with the drift in idiocy the Repubs have suffered, Dick Nixon himself would be "the Democrat Dick Nixon".
She appears to younger people as an opinionated know-it-all (actually knows a fair bunch due to being involved in the guts of many policies) with some vaguely paternalistic, establishmentarian leanings. Basically Dick Nixon. And just like him, she acquired a decent layer of grime due to being involved in a bunch of political battles.
 
Yeah. Absolutely not comparing him to Donald Trump, but people should apply the criticisms of his approach (low-info/"I'll have people to handle these things") to Bernie when appropriate. Hell, to any candidate.
I know some will get offended but how is this not like Trump? Bernie is a step above but I became impatient with him dodging questions. It's offensive for a major political candidate to jump around addressing the issue. The interview asked several specific questions. You would call them softballs if he had specific responses but it only seems like a harsh interview based on his responses.

As the president of the United States, he would frequently be allowed a small amount of time to digest new info and respond. Every response in the OP tells me he hasn't stayed up at night studying these details and he's bullshitting thru this interview after a year of preparation. Seriously? Not Trump level of bullshit but I expect far more. Not third grade but no more than high school.

Meanwhile, going to his website, I see his issue page on wall Street is sparse. So, it could be Bernie. And it could be the people he is hiring. Why not both? Someone didn't prepare him for this interview. I would assume the sparse page is due to the people he is hiring. That's not cover, that's am indictment.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/

That's the public face on the internet for interested parties. I'm assuming there's another page I can't easily get to? His website coordinator believes in a low info type of voter? Compare that to Hillary's site, posted earlier. First site on wall Street and you get a link to that 5000 word manifesto. I got tired of reading it at this early hour.

No matter what, that's two pieces of info that can make or break your opinion of Bernie.
 
Did people lose bank accounts in the mortgage crisis? Was that the problem?

Lmao

What about how an asset that people had put their life savings into and had taken as growing for granted, while it was chopped up and bundled into shittier securities over and over, was actually worthless, bubble inflated garbage?

Your understanding of what went wrong in the mortgage crisis is very wrong. Chopping up Investment Banks and Conventional Banks does nothing to address the underlying systemic issues. It's a panacea that sounds nice because "BREAK UP THE BANKS" rhetoric.

You're assuming a lot of things about me. Who was even talking about the mortgage crisis? We were talking about if splitting up the banks into utility and investment banks is needed and yes it is needed. Not to prevent another mortgage crisis but to prevent people losing their accounts when banks get themselves in trouble in a future crisis.

I know what went wrong in the mortgage crisis so quit the arrogance mate. As I said you need different regulation to fix those specific issues (like regulation in the housing market, better regulation of complex financial products and expansion of size and power of supervising institutions). So my question to you is can you read?
 
Daily News: I know you've got to go in a second. When was the last time you rode the subway? Are you gonna a campaign in the subway?

Sanders: Actually we rode the subway, Mike, when we were here? About a year ago? But I know how to ride the subways. I’ve been on them once or twice.

Daily News: Do you really? Do you really? How do you ride the subway today?

Sanders: What do you mean, "How do you ride the subway?"

Daily News: How do you get on the subway today?

Sanders: You get a token and you get in.

Daily News: Wrong.

Sanders: You jump over the turnstile.

Daily News: We would like our photographer to be there when you jump over the turnstile.
What is thiiiiiisss??? lol
 
We're living in an era of unprecedented financial accumulation.

big-bank-theory-chart-large.jpg


Sanders couldn't offer a good answer on how reverting to 20th century finance would affect our finance sector, because it's never been tried. However, the existence of huge, powerful banks has clear negative implications on our economy and well-being: risks taken are now felt much more severely by customers, and these banks have a serious political pull that was previously not present.

these 4 are more important than most countries. certified too big to fail in this state.
 
I have been souring slightly over Bernie in the past couple weeks. I still think he's great, but theres just been all these tiny irksome moments that are adding up. I am a little disappointed that he seems so flustered in this interview. I don't expect him to know everything about everything, but I expected him to be more well versed on what is his headline issue. Just wanting to do the right thing and standing up to corruption isn't enough. You've gotta have more than that if you want to be an effective president.
 
Not even the most vacious part of the interview.

Sanders: I will stop it by renegotiating all of the trade agreements that we have. And by establishing principles that says that what fair trade is about is you are going to take into consideration the wages being paid to workers in other countries. And the environmental standards that exist.

Daily News: So you're talking NAFTA. You're talking the Pacific. You're talking all of it.

Sanders: Yeah.

Really every single trade agreement. I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell if anyone thinks that's even remotely feasible. He'd be better off talking about drinking lattes on Mars. You'd be talking about an endeavor which would take decades.
 
You're assuming a lot of things about me. Who was even talking about the mortgage crisis? We were talking about if splitting up the banks into utility and investment banks is needed and yes it is needed. Not to prevent another mortgage crisis but to prevent people losing their accounts when banks get themselves in trouble in a future crisis.

I know what went wrong in the mortgage crisis so quit the arrogance mate. As I said you need different regulation to fix those specific issues (like regulation in the housing market, better regulation of complex financial products and expansion of size and power of supervising institutions). So my question to you is can you read?

I'm not following this at all. The FDIC's mandate is to insure depositor accounts (among other things). Why do you think the banks need to be separated into commercial and investment banks to do this? I'm very confused.

You say neoliberal crook a lot.
 
I mean, this isn't really new if you've been paying attention at all.

Breaking up banks is just a fatuous slogan, not a practical policy. And the intent really has little to do with risk reduction.

This is super important to note. Most people who are for "breaking up the banks" will cite the idea that it reduces the risk of repeating a situation like the 2008 crisis, unfortunately breaking up big banks (however it would be done) wouldn't reduce the risk of a future financial crisis. Their logic seems to be simply "lets blame the banks for something I don't understand, now destroy the banks!".

Seems more so about a misplaced sense of retribution rather than prudential financial policy.
 
Fair to criticize his lack of specifics? Sure.

The whole framing is unfair though. But HillGAF gonna HillGAF.

Just fyi, the appeal of Sanders is because of his principles. His supporters believe that he will support populist policies and not give in to special interests.

There is an interesting discussion regarding how certain ideas could be implemented by him or others in the future. Big companies have been broken up before. Mergers have been prevented. Banks used to not be able to gamble with depositor money. There are ways to do this.

But instead the gaf framing is that he is a liar, unqualified, a swindler, deluded. Suck Fucking garbage and so Fucking depressing.
I am a little disappointed that he seems so flustered in this interview. I don't expect him to know everything about everything, but I expected him to be more well versed on what is his headline issue. Just wanting to do the right thing and standing up to corruption isn't enough. You've gotta have more than that if you want to be an effective president.

See. This is fair.
 
To be fair boiled goose, this is the first time I've seen Sanders pressed on this issue and I was very disappointed to see that not only does he have fallacious reasoning behind his drive for breaking up "big banks" but he also has no idea how it could even be done.
 
Daily News: So if you look forward, a year, maybe two years, right now you have...JPMorgan has 241,000 employees. About 20,000 of them in New York. $192 billion in net assets. What happens? What do you foresee? What is JPMorgan in year two of...

Sanders: What I foresee is a stronger national economy. And, in fact, a stronger economy in New York State, as well. What I foresee is a financial system which actually makes affordable loans to small and medium-size businesses. Does not live as an island onto themselves concerned about their own profits. And, in fact, creating incredibly complicated financial tools, which have led us into the worst economic recession in the modern history of the United States.

Daily News: I get that point. I'm just looking at the method because, actions have reactions, right? There are pluses and minuses. So, if you push here, you may get an unintended consequence that you don't understand. So, what I'm asking is, how can we understand? If you look at JPMorgan just as an example, or you can do Citibank, or Bank of America. What would it be? What would that institution be? Would there be a consumer bank? Where would the investing go?

Sanders: I'm not running JPMorgan Chase or Citibank.

Daily News: No. But you'd be breaking it up.

Sanders: That's right. And that is their decision as to what they want to do and how they want to reconfigure themselves. That's not my decision. All I am saying is that I do not want to see this country be in a position where it was in 2008, where we have to bail them out. And, in addition, I oppose that kind of concentration of ownership entirely.

This is the most telling quote imo. The biggest problem with all political decisions is that politicians rarely discuss or even think about the unintended consequences, especially when things are done in a moment of passion or panic. If we break up all the big financial institutions, what if mortgage rates triple? Could lending rates plummet?
 
With the mentions of "unfit to be president" I'm getting flashbacks to 8 years ago that somehow a lot of people conveniently have forgotten. Obama was getting the same flack, first by Clinton and then majorly by the Republicans. One of the biggest comments was that he didn't have any foreign policy experience, which to be honest he really didn't, but that didn't preclude him from being what I think is a great President.

I say this as a person planning on voting for Clinton in November.

That said he should have more of a concrete example on how he would go about this and not allow someone to keep on questioning him on it. If he thinks he can accomplish this with legislation and executive action, stick with that shit. Also while he should be up to date on recent decisions that have an effect on his future actions, asking him about the METlife thing when the Judges reasoning behind the decision are still being kept secret until tomorrow, is kind of verging on gotcha journalism.

As an aside: Did they purposely pick the worst possible picture of Sanders for that article?

Also:
Daily News: But when you were mayor of Vermont...

Sanders: Burlington.

Daily News: Mayor of Burlington, I'm sorry. I guess you're mayor of Vermont too.

Oh come on lol.
 
Fair to criticize his lack of specifics? Sure.

The whole framing is unfair though. But HillGAF gonna HillGAF.

Just fyi, the appeal of Sanders is because of his principles. His supporters believe that he will support populist policies and not give in to special interests.

There is an interesting discussion regarding how certain ideas could be implemented by him or others in the future. Big companies have been broken up before. Mergers have been prevented. Banks used to not be able to gamble with depositor money. There are ways to do this.

But instead the gaf framing is that he is a liar, unqualified, a swindler, deluded. Suck Fucking garbage and so Fucking depressing.


See. This is fair.

No the Gaf framing is he's short on detail about the main issue of his campaign and no idea whether he can actually do it or not
 
And who is? I mean Hillarly is being investigated by the fucking FBI... That should disqualify her automatically

Wait, what? You seriously think being investigated should disqualify you? Not being found guilty, but just being investigated? You're okay with punishing someone before they've been found guilty of any crime?

Further, you're okay with giving a presidential appointee a unilateral ability to disqualify any person they want from being President? You must realize how crazy that is.
 
This is super important to note. Most people who are for "breaking up the banks" will cite the idea that it reduces the risk of repeating a situation like the 2008 crisis, unfortunately breaking up big banks (however it would be done) wouldn't reduce the risk of a future financial crisis. Their logic seems to be simply "lets blame the banks for something I don't understand, now destroy the banks!".

Seems more so about a misplaced sense of retribution rather than prudential financial policy.
Pretty much. 2008 wasn't about size, it was about risk.

Here's an excerpt from an Op-Ed by Steve Eisman. He was played by Steve Carrell in a movie about Wall Street; that makes him famous and therefore probably makes him right. Like Cher.
As long as housing prices kept going up, this whole process could continue. For consumers, this was a disaster. For the financial system, it was a time bomb. It never dawned on either lenders or regulators that housing prices kept going up mainly because underwriting standards were getting looser. By the spring of 2007, subprime mortgage credit losses were soaring and the securitization market froze. In this macabre game of musical chairs, whoever was left holding the loans was dead. Among the biggest holders were large banks and brokerage firms.

And their regulators had been oblivious to the coming disaster. Before the crisis, bank regulators had two jobs: regulating the safety and soundness of the banks and protecting the consumer. They did a horrendous job on both. One of the most important aspects of the Dodd-Frank financial reform act of 2010 was the division of labor. Today, the Federal Reserve regulates safety and soundness and the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau looks after consumers dealing with all financial institutions. This is a significant improvement.

Under the new regulatory regime, the leverage of the large banks has been reduced. While Citigroup’s leverage peaked at 33 to one, today it stands at less than 10 to one. The Federal Reserve has forced similar reductions in leverage across the board. Risky proprietary trading desks have been eliminated at banks by the Volcker Rule, part of Dodd-Frank. And while the consumer protection board has been around for only a few years, it seems to have made progress in safeguarding consumers from the more egregious practices of the financial-services industry.

This new system is not perfect. The problem of derivatives — they can increase risk, rather than reduce it, as they were designed to do — has not been completely solved. The so-called living wills (plans the banks must file with regulators in case they run into serious trouble and have to be dismantled) are not complete. And the regulators will have to deal with some of the consequences of the Volcker Rule, such as reduced liquidity in the buying and selling of bonds and other parts of the fixed income market. Yet it is simply a fact that the United States financial system is much less risky than it was before. That does not mean that losses cannot occur, but United States banks are in much better shape to withstand them.

It’s no longer accurate to say that the large banks pose a systemic danger to the American economy. Some argue that they should be broken up solely because they are too politically powerful. Perhaps so, although that power hasn’t managed to prevent regulators from dismantling bank leverage and risk. Furthermore, no advocate of a breakup has come forward with a plan on how to do it. Large banks are global, complex, integrated institutions. Breaking them apart would be incredibly difficult, long and disruptive, and the banks might have to freeze loan growth during the process, slowing our economy even further.
The Senator from Vermont would probably do well to read it. And like dozens upon dozens of other articles and studies.
 
Because he's been rallying on this issue for 20 years and has absolutely no starting point. He didn't need a definitive answer. He needed ideas. Note the guy you mentioned had ideas. Bernie did not
So you didn't read the article then? He has ideas the only thing hes saying is he doesn't know the legal aspects of some of those ideas.

You think every time Obama or any other prwsident makes a big executive move he doesn't have s team of experts to consult with to discuss how to do it within the bounds of his legal powers of office?
 
With the mentions of "unfit to be president" I'm getting flashbacks to 8 years ago that somehow a lot of people conveniently have forgotten. Obama was getting the same flack, first by Clinton and then majorly by the Republicans. One of the biggest comments was that he didn't have any foreign policy experience, which to be honest he really didn't, but that didn't preclude him from being what I think is a great President.

Eh, don't conflate political attacks with the candidates own words (or lack there of).

People said that about Obama, and then he sat down and would school fools on intricacies of policy. He was and is a policy wonk and master strategist.

I don't think the same is going on here, where people are mostly ignoring the lack of attention to details and Sanders is showing little nuance or understanding of the game board.

You think every time Obama or any other prwsident makes a big executive move he doesn't have s team of experts to consult with to discuss how to do it within the bounds of his legal powers of office?

So did Bush. What's your point?
 
Eh, don't conflate political attacks with the candidates own words (or lack there of).

People said that about Obama, and then he sat down and would school fools on intricacies of policy. He was and is a policy wonk and master strategist.

I don't think the same is going on here, where people are mostly ignoring the lack of attention to details and Sanders is showing little nuance or understanding of the game board.
Obama's foreign policy game wasn't that strong as a first term candidate. It's the reason why Biden was picked to be his running candidate. You are making him sound like a Xanatos Gambit master.
 
Honestly, if Bernie Sanders could only do one single thing in his term - all that would matter in the end - is removing money from politics. Strict anti-corruption laws in your politics, especially enforcing a limit on political contributions to something like $5000 and not allowing non-direct contributions.

And before any of this can be done, we need to get rid of Citizens United. Until then, any effort to implement reform in this issue arena will be met by the judiciary saying, "nope nope nope." A new President could sign legislation on Day 1, and on the following day the GOP would be in court seeking to get it knocked down, pointing to Citizens as precedent.
 
Obama's foreign policy game wasn't that strong as a first term candidate. It's the reason why Biden was picked to be his running candidate. You are making him sound like a Xanatos Gambit master.

I think this comparison is fruitless and distractory, but Obama was able to at least articulate an understand of the nuance involved in foreign policy and none of his positions prior to the 2008 election were flat out wrong, compare that to Sanders' view of banking. He seems to show little understanding of the banking sector and a break up of the banks, even if handled perfectly, would lead to at best a slow down of the economy and a worst a protracted recession that would necessitate large amounts of government spending.
 
"Sanders on breaking up banks "I have not studied... the legal implications of that""

Pretty misleading thread title. He said he had not studied the legal implications of the met life situation, which I assume is referring to the ruling on March 30th (less than a week ago). Met Life is an insurance company.

edit: also, this is sort of ironic. MetLife has actually announced it will break itself up due to regulations. http://www.americanbanker.com/news/...-citing-regulatory-environment-1078795-1.html

Even they don't know how they'll do it exactly: "It said it had not yet determined how the separation would take place"
 
This is the type of thing that makes me wish Elizabeth Warren decided to run instead. She makes the fight against the banks a matter of common sense and logic with real policies on how to fix it, not emotion and vague promises.
 
Eh, don't conflate political attacks with the candidates own words (or lack there of).

People said that about Obama, and then he sat down and would school fools on intricacies of policy. He was and is a policy wonk and master strategist.

I don't think the same is going on here, where people are mostly ignoring the lack of attention to details and Sanders is showing little nuance or understanding of the game board.



So did Bush. What's your point?

So where are all these bad decisions he's been making with his lack of attention to detail or understanding the game Hillary can hit him with. He seemed to understand the situation to the lead up on the Iraq war that it was terrible idea something that can't be said for Hillary. Hillary has a terrible record of supporting countless bad legislation that Bernie has managed to avoid.
 
He doesn't know if something he has actively campaigned on is legal

This is my biggest issue with it too. He's been a senator and railed against Dodd Frank and the banks for decades, so you would think this would be an area he could easily provide 5-10 actual points on how to achieve the goal and how to prevent/correct fallout and make sure the economy as a whole is unscathed. Instead he says he's not even sure it's legal to begin with, let alone any consequences being planned for.
 
I am shocked and aghast to learn that Bernie Sanders is running on a platform that is totally unfeasible and based on wishful thinking!
 
"Sanders on breaking up banks "I have not studied... the legal implications of that""

Pretty misleading thread title. He said he had not studied the legal implications of the met life situation. Met Life is an insurance company.

edit: also, this is sort of ironic. MetLife has actually announced it will break itself up due to regulations. http://www.americanbanker.com/news/...-citing-regulatory-environment-1078795-1.html

Even they don't know how they'll do it exactly: "It said it had not yet determined how the separation would take place"

MetLife has been breaking itself up to avoid stricter regulation since 2011 when it sold the majority of his Banking assets to GE Capital.

The important point to this thread, however, is that MetLife has gone about doing it internally rather than the government mandating some kind of breakup, and in doing so it hasn't cause any major disruptions to the financial market.
 
The important point to this thread, however, is that MetLife has gone about doing it internally rather than the government regulating some kind of breakup, and in doing so it hasn't cause any major disruptions to the financial market.

That's a leap. Their most recent restructuring is a direct reaction to government regulations. When politicians talk about breaking up the big banks, they aren't necessarily talking about the government literally dictating exactly how they'll be restructured. Regulatory pressure, as has been used in the past, is within that scope.
 
It's not ideal to complain about being belittled by supporters of a candidate while belittling the supporters of a candidate.

How am I belittling them exactly? By pointing out the facts? I know that bothers people but its not belittling anyone.

If Hillary Clinton disappeared tomorrow, these issues with Sanders would still exist. The fact is that he has no realistic policy for breaking up the banks, or enacting single payer, or hiking the minimum wage up to 15 dollars nationwide, or getting money out of politics. It's just over the top promises.

If you think this is just about Clinton people gloating then you've missed the bigger picture.

And you concluded all of that from this interview? In other words Sanders is actually an imbecile and not a Senator that has done absolutely nothing in his 25+ years experience? Supposing what you're saying is all true, a candidate that will actually attempt to do something about all of this issues is somehow worst than a candidate that doesn't?

Do you honestly feel like this helps your case?

Is that a lie? Is she not slightly better than conservatives? She is better in social issue (after flip-flopping on them, lets get real now) but she is a hawkish candidate and want troops on the ground in Syria and a no-fly zone too (as one example). Takes money from basically everyone that is a problem in America (Big Pharmacy, Military Complex, Wall Street, Banks, Prisons, Media, etc) and her policies are all compromised versions of Bernie's policies basically giving into the demands of Republicans from the get go without even fighting for them, in other words a Centrist politician. Also she takes bribes form the bankers, one would think this would be a mayor problem but people gloss over it.

That's an obvious question. Because no matter how bad your feelings are hurt, if you vote for anyone other than the democratic ticket, you'll be supporting:

- Stripping voting rights from the poor and minorities
- reversing gays of their right to marry
- banning abortion and limiting access to contraception
- religiously-motivated warmongering in the Middle East
- killing people who'd die without the healthcare they attained under the ACA.

It'd take a pretty fucking high horse to be cool with all of that just to show your disdain over the conduct of another candidates supporters in a video game forum on he Internet.

If a republican wins, or put differently, if Hillary looses it would only be the fault of Hillary and her supporters because:


  • She does worst than Bernie against any of the republicans.
  • She is the most untrustworthy candidate.
  • Her policies does not resonate with progressives.
All of this according to data, research and polls (facts) you have right now. Bernie is factually the best and most electable candidate. Hillary Clinton simply does not have an energetic base or a movement to win an election, proof being that her delegates didn't even show up in the Nevada caucus and some changed sides to Bernie thus granting him a victory. How come I don't see the reverse happening, huh? Its simple really, there are 3 different types of Hillary supporters:


  1. Ignorant people who don't know Bernie and don't know what the biggest problem in America is, money in politics.
  2. People that do know the root of the problem but done care.
  3. And people who will vote for her out of fear of a republican president.
There is no enthusiasm anywhere for Clinton. Is just "well she's better than Trump" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
 
I think this comparison is fruitless and distractory, but Obama was able to at least articulate an understand of the nuance involved in foreign policy and none of his positions prior to the 2008 election were flat out wrong, compare that to Sanders' view of banking. He seems to show little understanding of the banking sector and a break up of the banks, even if handled perfectly, would lead to at best a slow down of the economy and a worst a protracted recession that would necessitate large amounts of government spending.

Obama was a US Senator for less than 3 years. Not exactly a career to pull a full view of like Clinton and Bernie have. Also Obama is a smart guy so having advisors and info dumps were workable. I'd even view foreign policy as a democrat was easier in 2008 to articulate. Foreign policy for democrats at the time was basically don't do what Bush did and roll back the very unpopular wars. Explaining foreign policy decisions for democratic candidates is much harder now with the rise of ISIS and fuck ups in Syria and the like.
 
That's a leap. Their most recent restructuring is a direct reaction to government regulations. When politicians talk about breaking up the big banks, they aren't necessarily talking about the government literally dictating exactly how they'll be restructured. Regulatory pressure, as has been used in the past, is within that scope.

Which would be fine if he were simply limiting his talk to more regulatory pressure (like Hillary is) instead he's implying that he would use Dodd-Frank to identify institutions that were "too big to fail" and then the Federal Reserve would break them apart. Even though Dodd-Frank does not give the President or the Fed the power to break up financial institutions.

In an unrelated matter, he also says:

What I foresee is a financial system which actually makes affordable loans to small and medium-size businesses. Does not live as an island onto themselves concerned about their own profits.

Which underlines his astounding ignorance of the world financial system. These institutions are not islands and have not been for decades. Many of the banks that you would call "too big to fail" are actually more accurately described as "too interconnected to fail in a spectatular fashion". What that means is companies like JP Morgan are too entrenched in world markets to simply allow them to fail without some kind of government support of other financial institutions.

It's much like an electrical grid. Weakness in one sector necessitates another sector step up and keep capital flowing in a predictable manner. We can and often do allow them to fail in a slow and controlled fashion, but Bernie is using the language of "too big to fail" in a way that paints these banks as having some kind of magical immunity to failure, which is all together incorrect.
 
Obama was a US Senator for less than 3 years. Not exactly a career to pull a full view of like Clinton and Bernie have. Also Obama is a smart guy so having advisors and info dumps were workable. I'd even view foreign policy as a democrat was easier in 2008 to articulate. Foreign policy for democrats at the time was basically don't do what Bush did and roll back the very unpopular wars. Explaining foreign policy decisions for democratic candidates is much harder now with the rise of ISIS and fuck ups in Syria and the like.

And conversely we have Sanders that can only talk about his Iraq Vote, wants Sunnis and Shiites Governments working together against ISIS, and is completely contradictory on Israel?
 
Obama's foreign policy game wasn't that strong as a first term candidate. It's the reason why Biden was picked to be his running candidate. You are making him sound like a Xanatos Gambit master.

While Obama was running he spent hours meeting with various economists learning everything he could about the financial crisis as it happened. By the time he took office he had, what most people figured to be, knowledge equivalent to someone with a master's in economics. He may not have known everything he needed to, but he was actively learning it as he went. The fact Bernie couldn't even be bothered to do that with one of his signature issues is telling.
 
Obama was a US Senator for less than 3 years. Not exactly a career to pull a full view of like Clinton and Bernie have. Also Obama is a smart guy so having advisors and info dumps were workable. I'd even view foreign policy as a democrat was easier in 2008 to articulate. Foreign policy for democrats at the time was basically don't do what Bush did and roll back the very unpopular wars. Explaining foreign policy decisions for democratic candidates is much harder now with the rise of ISIS and fuck ups in Syria and the like.

I agree with all of this but we are comparing Obama's foreign policy positions in 2008 with Sanders' financial regulation positions in 2016.

Sanders doesn't seem to be able to speak to the minutiae and nuance of the financial system, and seems ignorant of the ramifications of his stated policies.

Obama (in 2008) was able to articulate details of foreign policy and his stated goals and seemed to understand the ramifications.
 
Damn yall some bernie haters. He's ambitious and in my eyes the best canditade we've had in a while. Maybe not the most electable in some regards, but the boy has a chance. Hell I even have a friend who is currently a teller at Chase her job is possibly on the chopping block of if JP Morgan Chase is broken up, AND she still feels the burn. We've been way too stagnant as a country. We used to be ambitous with our society but we've fallen behind in innovations to how we coexist.
This country was founded on ambitious and leftist ideas, and liberty for people. Liberty to me can also be implied as having a set up base line for standard of living for the people. Times have changed and collectively we need to shift our policies with the natural growth that comes with time. Not to mention we have way more cash to spread so let's spread that shiiiiit. As a country we have enough money collectively to do some pretty incredible stuff.

As someone who has traveled abroad I used to see other countries admire the United States and how we ran our country. Now some believe and even are doing better in some aspects. We are America at one point in history considered the greatest power world. we should lead with bold ideas

Sorry for the wall of text. Please feel free to school me with some facts if you disagree

I'm on vacation visiting family in Tennessee. On the drive here there are a lot of beautiful sights, then you notice the bad houses between the huge houses. The run down looking one road towns, bad roads/bridges,etc., and then again the beautiful sights. It kinda made me thiink it's no wonder people in the south don't believe in global warming. I, live in Mississippi, but I'm so used to my area and there is just flat land.

Recently I saw a video on how awesome Finland is. It made me, an American, super super jealous. The tides are indeed shifting. Especially with internet service in America being crappy by design. Even though the land and parts of cities can remind you how great US is, you can be quickly brought back down to reality at the sights of predator flashing blue lights to feed a poorly funded police department, or crumbling houses, roads, people.

That said, I'm sure Finland isn't as awesome as that video makes it seem. Though when people see things on America it is most likely the ugly. "stay safe America, from Euro GAF," "wow, that's your internet speed, and what is the cap for. I feel bad for you US GAF," "Trump is almost your president US GAF, let that sink in."
 
Which would be fine if he were simply limiting his talk to more regulatory pressure (like Hillary is) instead he's implying that he would use Dodd-Frank to identify institutions that were "too big to fail" and then the Federal Reserve would break them apart. Even though Dodd-Frank does not give the President or the Fed the power to break up financial institutions.
In an unrelated matter, he also says:



Which underlines his astounding ignorance of the world financial system. These institutions are not islands and have not been for decades. Many of the banks that you would call "too big to fail" are actually more accurately described as "too interconnected to fail in a spectatular fashion". What that means is companies like JP Morgan are too entrenched in world markets to simply allow them to fail without some kind of government support of other financial institutions.

It's much like an electrical grid. Weakness in one sector necessitates another sector step up and keep capital flowing in a predictable manner. We can and often do allow them to fail in a slow and controlled fashion, but Bernie is using the language of "too big to fail" in a way that paints these banks as having some kind of magical immunity to failure, which is all together incorrect.

But it is both. I think you're misinterpreting him if you think he suggests they're immune to failure. Banks commit crimes and pay fines as a matter of business. When it is profitable for them to break the law, they are essentially above the law. I think that's what he's referring to.

Being too big to fail, relating to the catastrophic effects of them taking down the rest of the economy with them when they go down, is an issue. But regardless of whether they fail or not, having these huge companies exert so much economic and political power is not healthy for our economy. Protecting the economy from a collapsing bank is only a small part of his goals. He wants to make the banking industry work for everybody. Basically mirrors Elizabeth Warren's fight, but obviously she's more in the weeds of it, considering she set up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
 
And Hillary actually knows what she's talking about the vast majority of the time.
So you're saying she knowingly voted for the Iraq war and pushed for civil wars/uprisings in Lybia and Syria despise knowing full well what the end result is going to be?
 
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