Giant Bomb Vive stream | What a Time to Be a Vive!

The prices on all these games are going to collapse quickly to something more normal.

No way they'll be able to sustain the price point being that high as more games hit the market.
 
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When I first started coming in and chatting in VR threads I had some of the same questions I am seeing in this thread about room scale. Mainly I was dissapointed in the teleport mechanic and wondering why we didn't have full movement to play something "Skyrim Like". A few kind posters guided me to a lot information about motion sickness and the reasons why it happens, which in turn saw me dive into room scale theory and just general VR development practices.

(As a caveat I am generally only developing in UE4 these days so I can only comment on implementation in that engine)

From a development point of view let me explain one of the main reasons why you aren't seeing traditional movement.

-Turning a character(player) via joystick causes massive motion sickness. More so than moving forward/backwards and/or strafing.

So what can be done?

Best Method: Omnidirectional treadmill - This would require people purchasing another expensive device and having the room for it. While this will always remain the best method for VR locomotion it is also one that will never be accepted by default. Luckily the Omni-Treadmills that do exist tend to be able to use your body and feet to simulate joysticks so they can be used in that way for traditional games and VR games that allow that type of movement.

Most viable method: Gen2 VR systems come with extra sensors for (at minimum) chest and belt - So why do we need extra sensors? Because we need to know the direction someone is facing separate from head movement.

This would allow the use of a joystick to move in a WASD method and the physical turning of your body to actually turn the character. Head movement would remain separate and represented on an in game avatar with IK.

I plan on testing this method once I get my Vive by sticking one of the Vive controllers into my waist band so it always faces forward. I can then extrapolate a base forward vector and orient and rotate in game by using that instead of the headset forward position.

The issue here is, I would need a way to keep that forward vector if the hips rotate, like if you were holding a sword and shield like a spartan or something.

As you can see, locomotion is infinitely more complex, and wrought with way more problems, in VR than in tradition games. Which is why games seem so simplistic right now. Devs are literally throwing shit at the wall to see what works currently.

I have two other experiments I plan on trying

1) First person room scale with a "select position to move" mechanic like the "Move to cover" mechanic in The Division. Basically this would be "teleporting" with out the instant movement. Instead during movement the camera would change to third person follow and you could look around like that.

2) a diablo like system where you are looking down at and the character turns but not the camera (table top system). This would give you a OG legend of zelda feel. Could even have it rendered on an actual table with the old school "swipe" system (how spaces worked in NES zelda games).
 
Glad you guys are all digging The Gallery. Kickstarter backer #42 here on that one. It's so great seeing some guys I gambled on doing good.
 
Every time they start up a new game or leave a game and try to get their bearings, all I see is this movement:

hwVkKHw.gif
 
I like how sometimes when they have to mess with settings Jeff is like "close your eyes I'm not sure what's going to happen" as if they might just start puking everywhere and having a seizure haha
 
The deliveryman came. I was really excited. And there it was something I had been waiting 30+ years for. Unfortunately, it was not the delivery I was looking for and I told the delivery driver to move along.

I had totally forgot that Starwars Bluray was out today, I was oddly totally bummed as any other time I would have been really happy to get it.
 
Croatoan said:
When I first started coming in and chatting in VR threads I had some of the same questions I am seeing in this thread about room scale. Mainly I was dissapointed in the teleport mechanic and wondering why we didn't have full movement to play something "Skyrim Like". A few kind posters guided me to a lot information about motion sickness and the reasons why it happens, which in turn saw me dive into room scale theory and just general VR development practices.

(As a caveat I am generally only developing in UE4 these days so I can only comment on implementation in that engine)

From a development point of view let me explain one of the main reasons why you aren't seeing traditional movement.

-Turning a character(player) via joystick causes massive motion sickness. More so than moving forward/backwards and/or strafing.

So what can be done?

Best Method: Omnidirectional treadmill - This would require people purchasing another expensive device and having the room for it. While this will always remain the best method for VR locomotion it is also one that will never be accepted by default. Luckily the Omni-Treadmills that do exist tend to be able to use your body and feet to simulate joysticks so they can be used in that way for traditional games and VR games that allow that type of movement.

Most viable method: Gen2 VR systems come with extra sensors for (at minimum) chest and belt - So why do we need extra sensors? Because we need to know the direction someone is facing separate from head movement.

This would allow the use of a joystick to move in a WASD method and the physical turning of your body to actually turn the character. Head movement would remain separate and represented on an in game avatar with IK.

I plan on testing this method once I get my Vive by sticking one of the Vive controllers into my waist band so it always faces forward. I can then extrapolate a base forward vector and orient and rotate in game by using that instead of the headset forward position.

The issue here is, I would need a way to keep that forward vector if the hips rotate, like if you were holding a sword and shield like a spartan or something.

As you can see, locomotion is infinitely more complex, and wrought with way more problems, in VR than in tradition games. Which is why games seem so simplistic right now. Devs are literally throwing shit at the wall to see what works currently.

I have two other experiments I plan on trying

1) First person room scale with a "select position to move" mechanic like the "Move to cover" mechanic in The Division. Basically this would be "teleporting" with out the instant movement. Instead during movement the camera would change to third person follow and you could look around like that.

2) a diablo like system where you are looking down at and the character turns but not the camera (table top system). This would give you a OG legend of zelda feel. Could even have it rendered on an actual table with the old school "swipe" system (how spaces worked in NES zelda games).
Click to expand...

interesting, thanks for the breakdown.

isn't there a VR game out there that does locomotion with leaning? as in, lean forward while holding button, player walks forward... lean back, reverse? I remember seeing this demo somewhere.
 
Nerfgun said:
interesting, thanks for the breakdown.

isn't there a VR game out there that does locomotion with leaning? as in, lean forward while holding button, player walks forward... lean back, reverse? I remember seeing this demo somewhere.
Click to expand...

Leaning would working, but constantly leaning forward isn't a comfortable thing to do. I mean, stand up and try it. Would be awkward to lean forward and aim a weapon, or swing a sword, as well.

Additionally, leaning for movement makes leaning to peak around things either require a button press or removes it entirely. The latter being a no-no in VR.
 
Nerfgun said:
interesting, thanks for the breakdown.

isn't there a VR game out there that does locomotion with leaning? as in, lean forward while holding button, player walks forward... lean back, reverse? I remember seeing this demo somewhere.
Click to expand...

Yup, that is what Golem is using at the moment. But that is also limited by the fact that it is emulating a creature that doesn't walk, but rolls around.

For complex scenes I can imagine getting caught up in the scenery would be fairly aggravating in VR.
 
Croatoan said:
From a development point of view let me explain one of the main reasons why you aren't seeing traditional movement.

-Turning a character(player) via joystick causes massive motion sickness. More so than moving forward/backwards and/or strafing.

So what can be done?.
Click to expand...

It seems all the good movement games (like RIGs) need a cockpit and exo skeleton, but is there a reason why we cannot just use that method in games if it works ?

Mech warrior skyrim ?
 
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