THR: Warner Bros. Mulls Releasing Fewer Films as 'Batman v. Superman' Stalls

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I suppose you also have to factor in what was going on with Green Lantern, which was also supposed to launch the DC Universe, but in a much more blatantly "do what Marvel are doing" direction.

Yup. Which itself was following the actual cancellation of a Justice League movie by George Miller.

I understand the reasoning behind everyone framing this as a Marvel catch-up game, but it's really more to do with the fact Warners was looking to plug holes based on the knowledge Harry Potter & Tolkien were going away. Seeing Marvel doing what they were doing certainly provided incentive, yeah - but it makes sense to see why they're tripping over themselves the way they are when you look at it from the perspective of them trying to get back to Potter/LOTR with their superheroes, rather than them trying to catch up to Marvel.

But there's like, 30 years of superfans (and the media borne from their ranks) trained to think of everything solely in the Marvel/DC binary, so that just gets reinforced.
 
There's history of Christian Bale being Batman for 3 movies spanning about 8 years, 1 year before the movie that proceeded the current movie we're talking about.
And there aren't anywhere near enough people who attribute the success of the previous trilogy to Bale as Batman for his appearance to have done anything. You grasping for random hypothetical connections to Nolan's trilogy that could've improved the gross isn't based on reality. The movie would've been just as bad if he was there and it would've fallen off a cliff just as fast as it is currently.
 
Yup. Which itself was following the actual cancellation of a Justice League movie by George Miller.

I understand the reasoning behind everyone framing this as a Marvel catch-up game, but it's really more to do with the fact Warners was looking to plug holes based on the knowledge Harry Potter & Tolkien were going away. Seeing Marvel doing what they were doing certainly provided incentive, yeah - but it makes sense to see why they're tripping over themselves the way they are when you look at it from the perspective of them trying to get back to Potter/LOTR with their superheroes, rather than them trying to catch up to Marvel.

But there's like, 30 years of superfans (and the media borne from their ranks) trained to think of everything solely in the Marvel/DC binary, so that just gets reinforced.

I meant more in the sense of what the film itself was doing rather than the expanded universe stuff. Which was part of the problem in the first place - how do two films like Man of Steel and Green Lantern combine into a cohesive Justice League? They're practically polar opposites.
 
The problem with Timm and Dini is while they're good, they're hardcore Batman fanboys.

Do they have a vision for all the other DC characters?

So is most of the world lol

A DCCU should center on Batman!

And they certainly have a vision for Superman and the Justice League. Again, if put in that Feige position, I'm sure they'd knock it out of the park. they GET DC.

How did Star Wars not move forward? Three new POV characters have pushed the old ones to the side and are driving the story forward.

Ok, so then how exactly should these DC films "move forward"? By creating three new characters?

Even with those new characters, TFA was a quasi remake of A New Hope. It took old ideas and brought them to the modern day with great success. Batman TAS and Superman TAS have gotten BETTER with age. It is still the best incarnation of Batman. Why can't they take that template and translate it to the big screen and make the appropriate changes to modernize it, like TFA did?

And knock off the absolute rubbish. Dini and Timm were very good at what they did, but their time is gone. Bringing them back is a nostalgia trip to a bygone day, the same way Singer aping Donner was. DC does need someone steering the shit, but they need someone steering the ship who isn't going to do stuff that worked in a different medium in the 90s.

Their time is gone? Arkham Asylum and Arkham City are less than 10 years old and were met with great success and critical reception.

But yeah everything I'm saying is rubbish, I guess. Who is this someone that is more qualified than the dudes who actually DID create an interconnected DC universe met with unanimous praise?
 
And there aren't anywhere near enough people who attribute the success of the previous trilogy to Bale as Batman for his appearance to have done anything. You grasping for random hypothetical connections to Nolan's trilogy that could've improved the gross isn't based on reality. The movie would've been just as bad if he was there and it would've fallen off a cliff just as fast as it is currently.

Eh, Bale's smarter than you give him credit for. He had enough pull to drag Jonathan Nolan to rewrite Terminator Salvation drastically. The dude power-played big-time on that film to make it what he wanted it to be. If he joined BvS, I guarantee you he'd be fighting Snyder every step of the way re: content.
 
All superhero movies to be Marvel formula based from now on.

McDonalds for your eyes "Quipfest".

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Yup. Which itself was following the actual cancellation of a Justice League movie by George Miller.

I understand the reasoning behind everyone framing this as a Marvel catch-up game, but it's really more to do with the fact Warners was looking to plug holes based on the knowledge Harry Potter & Tolkien were going away. Seeing Marvel doing what they were doing certainly provided incentive, yeah - but it makes sense to see why they're tripping over themselves the way they are when you look at it from the perspective of them trying to get back to Potter/LOTR with their superheroes, rather than them trying to catch up to Marvel.

But there's like, 30 years of superfans (and the media borne from their ranks) trained to think of everything solely in the Marvel/DC binary, so that just gets reinforced.

Indeed. All Warner Bros is trying to do is making consistent money. Marvel has proven that a film universe is one way to get consistent money and Warner Bros has a comic publisher to pull from.

That's why the "expectations" part is important. This isn't a DC Cinematic Universe existing alone; it's one looking to replace that Harry Potter/LOTR money in a world where Disney has Marvel down as a consistent source of cash flow. They're only chasing Marvel in sense that they want to sit at the big money table again after the bombs that were Jupiter Ascending, Pan, and In the Heart of the Sea.
 
People take a risk, and they get ripped to shreds for it.
All superhero movies to be Marvel formula based from now on. Yay.

I just hope this means they cancel Aquaman, and cancel Cyborg.

Seriously asking, what do people mean when they say "Marvel Formula?"

Cause I have a feeling each person who says it has a different idea of what it is.
 
Ben Affleck was hardly the film's biggest problem.
Again, I'm not saying he was the problem (maybe for a small percentage of moviegoers, myself included and again, that's not relevant here), I'm just wondering how different things would have been if Bale was never replaced.
And there aren't anywhere near enough people who attribute the success of the previous trilogy to Bale as Batman for his appearance to have done anything. You grasping for random hypothetical connections to Nolan's trilogy that could've improved the gross isn't based on reality.
I'm not grasping for anything, and I already said as much that I'm not basing this on reality (because it is a hypothetical situation) so I don't get what you're trying to say. All I'm talking about are what-ifs. There most definitely could have been a difference if Bale was involved in BvS, but neither I, nor you, nor anyone in our reality will ever know for sure.
The movie would've been just as bad if he was there and it would've fallen off a cliff just as fast as it is currently.
how the fuck do you know that? did you visit an alternate reality to ours to see the reception to BvS starring Bale instead of Ben?
 
BvS probably would have had very similar numbers to Star Wars had it actually been a good movie. It's fucking Batman and Superman.

Stop choosing shit directors to make these movies.

BvS has after eleven days made more money than any Superman or Batman movie in its domestic run.
 
Yup. Which itself was following the actual cancellation of a Justice League movie by George Miller.

I understand the reasoning behind everyone framing this as a Marvel catch-up game, but it's really more to do with the fact Warners was looking to plug holes based on the knowledge Harry Potter & Tolkien were going away. Seeing Marvel doing what they were doing certainly provided incentive, yeah - but it makes sense to see why they're tripping over themselves the way they are when you look at it from the perspective of them trying to get back to Potter/LOTR with their superheroes, rather than them trying to catch up to Marvel.

But there's like, 30 years of superfans (and the media borne from their ranks) trained to think of everything solely in the Marvel/DC binary, so that just gets reinforced.

Great point.

In fact, it deserves to be underlined and bolded.

Great point.
 
Seriously asking, what do people mean when they say "Marvel Formula?"

Cause I have a feeling each person who says it has a different idea of what it is.

something about quips and how they're all the same thing because the good guy wins at the end
 
Seriously asking, what do people mean when they say "Marvel Formula?"

Cause I have a feeling each person who says it has a different idea of what it is.

"The Marvel Formula" is basically everyone that sees someone's success in life and says "I could do that if I wanted to", but never actually does.

something about quips and how they're all the same thing because the good guy wins at the end

"There's no stakes!!!"
 
Indeed. All Warner Bros is trying to do is making consistent money. Marvel has proven that a film universe is one way to get consistent money and Warner Bros has a comic publisher to pull from.

That's why the "expectations" part is important. This isn't a DC Cinematic Universe existing alone; it's one looking to replace that Harry Potter/LOTR money in a world where Disney has Marvel down as a consistent source of cash flow. They're only chasing Marvel in sense that they want to sit at the big money table again after the bombs that were Jupiter Ascending, Pan, and In the Heart of the Sea.

That right there is the biggest point. I wonder how much WB still has in reserves from the previous decade because I feel like they don't have too many bombs left in them before they need to look at major restructuring.
 
Seriously asking, what do people mean when they say "Marvel Formula?"

Cause I have a feeling each person who says it has a different idea of what it is.

It's either a wisecracking, rogueish lead who learns the power of friendship and/or love and defeats the bad guy because of that knowledge to change from the nasty piece of work he was before (GOTG, Ant-Man, Iron Man, Thor), or they do Captain America where he's already awesome and just wants to make the world less shit.

Usually the third act has an aerial battle.

It's not like the formula is bad, it's just that it'd be nice to see films like Doctor Strange et al not feel like a magic version of all the other films. But that's where Black Panther works, because by his very nature he goes against the MCU tropes.
 
i really hope the new Harry Potter trilogy is good

i would love to see WB double down on that property and explore that universe in a way that is fun for fans and profitable for the studio
 
BvS has after eleven days made more money than any Superman or Batman movie in its domestic run.

Yea but it is dropping in daily revenue quickely and is already below expectations. Keep in mind The Dark Knight had long legs. I bet that when it is all said and done TDK will beat BvS.
 
And this shows on why you are doing it wrong Warner Bros instead of making plans for future dc movies you had to put everything in 1 movie.
 
So is most of the world lol

A DCCU should center on Batman!

And they certainly have a vision for Superman and the Justice League. Again, if put in that Feige position, I'm sure they'd knock it out of the park. they GET DC.

And WB will gets their hands on it and edit the shit out of it to fit their vision. Geoff Johns can't catch a break and neither would Timm and Dini.
 
Yea but it is dropping in daily revenue quickely and is already below expectations. Keep in mind The Dark Knight had long legs. I bet that when it is all said and done TDK will beat BvS.

Maybe, probably. But I guess people just love Batman much more than they do Superman. Superman is pretty boring. Batman is edgy.
 
BvS has after eleven days made more money than any Superman or Batman movie in its domestic run.

Opening weekends are based on brand and marketing. A movie's legs are based on audience reception, which theoretically is more related to film quality.

Honest question- What has Snyder done to deserve such a huge franchise?

No one could have handled the reins here?

300 and Watchmen, then he stepped up to do Man of Steel, which made just enough to justify a sequel.
 
Maybe, probably. But I guess people just love Batman much more than they do Superman. Superman is pretty boring. Batman is edgy.

Its hard to love a character whose only movies in the last few deacdes have been a boring as fuck indecisive sequel/remake/reboot and a depressive as fuck punch-fest that made him even more dark and emo than BATMAN, if such a thing is even possible...
 
It's my understanding that Man of Steel was initially intended to be a Superman trilogy, but when it didn't live up to expectations financially they stuck Batman in there, then it just slowly ballooned into a pre-JL movie.

I read this in a gaf thread on BvS so I'm not sure how accurate it is.



No chance. Maybe $900mil, probably $850mil

That would explain why the Justice League movies are so Superman-centric, with Luthor, Doomsday, and Brainiac as villains before Darkseid, and also why the story seems like they crammed two Superman sequels into one movie.

I wish they did something like this instead for their road to JL:

Man of Steel
Batman/Superman
Solo Batman film
Trinity (functions as JL 0)
Wonder Woman
Flash
JL1 (Starts out with 3-4 members, the rest join underway)
Other JL members
JL 2

That way single movies didn't need to fill multiple functions at once. BvS wouldn't need to function as a Man of Steel sequel, a Batman/Superman mash-up, a Trinity film, and a prequel to Justice League all at the same time.
Perhaps they consciously wanted to avoid their JL roadmap looking like the MCU. Though with Superman, Superman 2/Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Justice League, it ends up mirroring MCU phase 1 anyway.
 
this thread is moving pretty fast but at least one other person in this thread suggested that maybe it isn't entirely his fault.
It's not entirely his fault, but considering where screenwriters stand on the hierarchy of movie creatives, Snyder was absolutely in a position to go "Hey, this plot makes no sense". He also would probably be heavily involved in the script revisions.

The dour tone and "Superman as Jesus" theme is probably him. Everything visual as him. So while he might not be 100% to blame for the failure that is BvS, he's just responsible for nearly everything that failed to work.
 
How did Star Wars not move forward? Three new POV characters have pushed the old ones to the side and are driving the story forward.

And knock off the absolute rubbish. Dini and Timm were very good at what they did, but their time is gone. Bringing them back is a nostalgia trip to a bygone day, the same way Singer aping Donner was. DC does need someone steering the shit, but they need someone steering the ship who isn't going to do stuff that worked in a different medium in the 90s.

The mid 00's is a nostalgia trip to a bygone era? Also, how does attempting to translate what is considered some of the best incarnations of these characters a wrong move? JL/JLU proved that they know how to tie everything together and make every character of the JL feel unique and important.
 
300 and Watchmen, then he stepped up to do Man of Steel, which made just enough to justify a sequel.

I guess.

I loved Watchmen and everything, but it wasn't exactly a box office hit was it?

I thought after MoS they'd realize that he can't really work with any source material that isn't inherently dark. He was the perfect director for Watchmen, but has been floundering since.
 
Again, I'm not saying he was the problem (maybe for a small percentage of moviegoers, myself included and again, that's not relevant here), I'm just wondering how different things would have been if Bale was never replaced.

Bale was never replaced.

The story of his version of the character concluded. Nolan wasn't interested in making anymore, Bale wasn't interested in making anymore, the story had finished. I think it would've only been a bad thing if they tried to get Bale to do this. That take on the character is terrific as a standalone trilogy, but trying to retroactively fit that trilogy into a cinematic universe where aliens and gods exist would've not worked at all.

Also, even if they could've gotten Bale to do BvS and the Justice League movies, there's no way he'd also want to do another trilogy of solo films.
 
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