what have you done
First look at ScarJo as the Major in Ghost in the Shell
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what have you done
vainglorious
Member
Cool. The movie's only $20 on Amazon, just picked it up.
I wish Rooney Mara was cast in this. ScarJo has more brand recognition and mind share I guess so I understand her as the choice but... man, I don't know. Something just isn't clicking with me here.
Edit -
radios shipping overview
Member
Can't or won't?
AnathemicOne
Banned
Pretty much
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
partyphone
Banned
are they at least changing her name?
*checks imdb*
hahahahahaha. oh gosh. great.
this is going to be a disaster.
*checks imdb*
hahahahahaha. oh gosh. great.
this is going to be a disaster.
Space Medafighter X
Member
Despite having a name erica, this one looks ridiculously asian.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iW3_Ft1t0mY
Extra Sauce
Member
TheRedSnifit
Member
They don't really draw characters that have traditional Caucasian features. I mean, distinctively white characters do exist, and they don't look much like your typical anime character:
Anime characters simply don't look human.
The Omega Man
Member
Or speak proper English
Yeah, and even in my non-English speaking country babies are getting English names, but those have become kinda of accepted worldwide because English is sort of the de facto universal language. If some little kid was named Yosuke by his parents here everybody would think they came from a different planet. Unless they were Japanese immigrants of course.
radios shipping overview
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Don't blame her for Del Toro's lines. Go watch The Brothers Bloom - she steals the movie.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I really don't think people who are pointing this out understand what is going on.
In general, anime characters have more Caucasian features than what would be considered traditionally Japanese features.
That is why when they do have to draw actual Western characters they have to go to extremes to differentiate them and you get caricatures like this.
or this from a previous poster:
I mean look at how much of his face is taken up by that nose! And outside of Jay Leno chins don't really do that most of the time! heh
edit: Wtf he even has forehead dimples. What the fuck? Seriously. What the fuck? Is that even humanly possible outside of some rare medical condition?
The Omega Man
Member
She stole what? you are telling me that a woman who had the same face/expression throughout the whole movie stole the movie from Ruffalo's performance?
Messofanego
Banned
Or Babel.
Ivan Amiibo
Banned
Weird...that's like wal-mart generic brand scar jo with bad posture
Edit: what universe did i walk into where western remakes of japanese IP are white washing
Edit: what universe did i walk into where western remakes of japanese IP are white washing
radios shipping overview
Member
But she didn't. And she did.
I don't get the whole whitewashing argument in this particular case. First off, it's a fake body - there is no automatic reason for it to look Asian even if the brain is from a Japanese woman.
Furthermore, it's not being made by a Japananese producer/studio, so the idea that all the actors need to be Japanese is akin to saying the Japanese shouldn't perform Hamlet because they're not Danish.
I'm not arguing it will be good or the casting is wise, I'm just saying most the arguments against are ridiculous.
For example, Ghost in the Shell is very much about identity and consciousness beyond the physical form. What if part of the character arc specifically addressed this - what Kusangai has given up culturally by being a Japanese woman who has taken in a Caucasian shell. That's pretty fascinating to me.
Of course, we may not get anything that deep and it may all be crap, but let's judge after the art is made, not while it's being conceived and created.
Furthermore, it's not being made by a Japananese producer/studio, so the idea that all the actors need to be Japanese is akin to saying the Japanese shouldn't perform Hamlet because they're not Danish.
I'm not arguing it will be good or the casting is wise, I'm just saying most the arguments against are ridiculous.
For example, Ghost in the Shell is very much about identity and consciousness beyond the physical form. What if part of the character arc specifically addressed this - what Kusangai has given up culturally by being a Japanese woman who has taken in a Caucasian shell. That's pretty fascinating to me.
Of course, we may not get anything that deep and it may all be crap, but let's judge after the art is made, not while it's being conceived and created.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Localization should be the only argument and justification going around for this movie. I have no problem with them Edge of Tomorrowing GitS and changing names around to fit the cast and location.
But the people saying "Well she LOOKS white in the anime" and trying to justify casting a white person as a person named Motoko fucking Kusanagi because "white cyborg model" is some crazy shit. Imagine if there was a comic arc of Black Panther switching bodies with a white person for a couple issues and the MCU based the casting of BP on that one story and cast a white guy? Sure there could be an in-universe explanation for casting a white guy as Black Panther, but you can be sure as hell people would be giving Marvel shit for bending over backwards for loophole to avoid casting a minority.
EdibleKnife
Member
If you're talking about the 1995 movie, both the names of the major characters and existences of entities such as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are clear markers of a story that takes place in Japan. I don't disagree that it's ripe for use an adaptation when American filmmakers have already admitted to borrowing liberally from it but that doesn't change that the film is indeed coded to a certain culture. I loved Speed Racer so whatever. I'm fine with them calling her Maggie Keaton, or whatever they've got planned (still don't think she looks the part despite race).
What I'm against is the notion that it's a film that's impossible to make or market without the use of a white actress. They could have completely gone for true adaptation with the film's Asian coding but didn't. Some might say that makes the film more marketable. I say they had an opportunity to buck a cycle of Hollywood dodging the opportunity to utilize people of color and chose to stick with the status quo.
That analogy is absolutely ludicrous. Black Panther was born black. Kusanagi's body was made.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Yeah, the whole "anime characters look white anyway" argument is silly. Just say that American movie makers are changing the characters and setting to be more American to appeal to an American audience, just as Studio Ghibli's Arrietty and Marnie changed the setting from the original British novels to Japan to appeal to a Japanese audience.
Fair enough. I shouldn't hold a bad performance in that horrid movie against her.
Are you sure you're not a tiny bit biased, there?
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yeah, she was also born as Motoko Kusanagi.
You would be okay with a white Cyborg just because you could justify it?
BudokaiMR2
Member
I will say that I would have preferred to have an asian actress, just for the sake of diversity but I also can't think of anyone who would fit. I don' really agree with Rinko Kikuchi because I don't know if she could pull off the action sequences and I really don't think she is a good actress. However, I haven't seen her in anything comparable I guess. Has she ever done an action movie lead before?
I also hate the fact that everyone just assumes the worst of directors in this situation. Who is to say that ScarJo didn't just blown them away at the auditions? I really do think she is a great actress, though I guess others don't feel the same way.
However, I really do get a kick out of everyone all up in arms over skin color in relation to GiTS. I am sorry, but the messages and theme of the series in almost all of its iterations has went completely over your head as far as I am concerned.
As others have said Kusanagi's character has always revolved around the disconnect between her true self or 'ghost' and the throwaway bodies or 'shells' she uses to her advantage. In Innocence isn't there a part where she literally borrows sex dolls to get the job done? She doesn't give a damn and I always imagined she picked the sexiest body possible most of the time just because it came in handy as another tool for her to use.
Its right there in the fucking title. SMH.
I'm married to an absolutely beautiful Japanese woman, so no I don't really think I am. lol
As I have said before, it is an unfortunate truth but if you really believe that Japanese culture doesn't idolize Western features in a lot of cases, then I don't know what to say. It stretches far beyond niche things like anime and permeates a lot of the culture.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
yikes.
not sure I can even give them the benefit of the doubt on this one
not sure I can even give them the benefit of the doubt on this one
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
damn this would have been a damn good choice
I really wish they'd cast Fiona o'Shaughnessy
she would have been good too :/
EdibleKnife
Member
I'm not a casting director but I'd imagine just as there are a wealth of white actresses with different skills, types, and prowess, there's a wealth of Asian actresses with the same that are rarely considered because the heads' already "just see a white woman in the role. You know, for relatabliy's sake".
And I'd love to think that Hollywood is all about giving people a fair shake where the job only goes to the person who always blew everyone out of the water but people in the industry have consistently demonstrated that that's not the case:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/24/arts/hollywood-diversity-inclusion.html?_r=0
Sure maybe ScarJo was good but putting aside race for a second, is it about the best person for the job or bankablity? Because I've heard both in this topic now. If they only chose Scar because she makes money then they've already dropped all pretense of looking for the most potent person for the part in the first place, white or not.
Sickboy007
Member
Having seen Under the Skin you don't have to worry on that front.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Like I said I agree that more diversity is a good thing, but I also think that Hollywood is doing better on that front than ever. Still a long way to go, but it has gotten a lot better.
And reducing ScarJo to be just a 'white woman' is not any better in my opinion. She is a talented actress and a lot of directors would probably kill for her to be in their movie.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I uh... don't want to be negative.
So uh.. boy.
So uh.. boy.
People seem to keep forgetting about that part
EdibleKnife
Member
Cool, they've gotten better than 60 years ago. That doesn't mean much to the people in the article who are still having a bitch of a time in Hollywood due to outdated notions
Like I said in my edit, I've heard both she's the best and she makes money. Even if the audition ad said "looking for white actress", then what's the merit in even claiming that they picked someone who killed it when we also know that Hollywood is more than capable of choosing bad actors or people that don't fit only because they sell?
Man, I really want more movies like PR. It may just be my Mech fetish acting up but that movie was so cool even though I wouldn't consider the writing great.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I would say it is even better than it was 10 years ago.
Also, guess what? Even as a white actress ScarJo is marginalized to an extent because she is a woman. That is a point expressed in the article you just linked.
She obviously has it better than a lot of people, especially now that she has become popular, but I find it a little bit disingenuous to just write her off because "white people, right?"
I would expect that as an attractive actress in Hollywood she has had to deal with her fair share of bullshit.
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