That's one way to reduce the character of Kusanagi.
First look at ScarJo as the Major in Ghost in the Shell
- Thread starter Blader
- Start date
- Status
UnluckyKate
Member
http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...-anime-adaptation-ghost-in-the-shell-20160414
It's ScarJo in a wig, alright!
Her dead fishe eyes and open lips acting totally nails the Major character...
I really don't like scarjo serious roles... She's pretty but I don't like how she always have the same confused expression when trying to act opening more dramatic
I just wrote american = white because of the "white supremacy" angle of the post i quoted.
As i wrote above, I completely get that asian-americans want more representation by Hollywood and that this movie would be a good opportunity for that. I even agree, even though it's not going to happen, that it would be cool if this was directly set in japan and more or less a direct adaption. I love the scource material after all.
However, the movie being adapted as it is (and we know very little so far) is neither "erasure" of japanese culture, GITS is far to big an IP for that, nor is it "white supremacy". This isn't like when they cast historical figures in Egypt as caucasians or something like that. THAT i agree, is really silly.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Japanese men in Japan are probably not very concerned with representation in Hollywood, or anywhere outside of Japan, especially if they're in the games industry which allows for telling whatever stories you want without much concern for the characters' races if they're even human at all. There's not a whole lot to be gained/learned from asking them their opinion on this, nor would that opinion serve as an effective counter to people expressing their disappointment in this as a missed opportunity for greater representation/more roles for Asian/Asian-American actresses.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Heh. Well as I have said many many times now, I feel like the transhumanism aspects of GiTS are what make it really special.
....but we know what this movie is probably going to end up being.
There is always something to be gained from discussing issues with people of all walks of life. Period.
As soon as you believe you have nothing to learn from a person for any reason, you have stopped to grow as a person as far as I am concerned.
Insular thinking like that is exactly why Hollywood doesn't value minorities as much as they should.
I also don't see the harm in gauging Japanese reactions for an adaptation of a work that originates in Japan.
I also wasn't trying to prop those opinions up as a counter-point to anything. Not sure how my post could have come off as such.
I have expressed my disappointment that minorities don't have proper representation multiple times in here.
I have just also expressed my opinion that race should not be an important factor in a story that
will hopefully focus on transhumanism at its core.
Super late on this, but we pronounce it the same way (I assume) that it's pronounced in the US.Random question to my UK friends here on GAF:
Is 'Rupert' pronounced 'Rue-prict' across the pond, or did I imagine that?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You keep using "insular" but the rest of the content makes me think you're not actually sure what that word means.
In the context of how you originally brought up your co-workers' opinions it definitely seems that you meant it as a way to conveniently dismiss anyone not on board with having Johansson play Kusanagi by having "real Japanese opinions" to fall back on.
The point is, as others have said, that those people have no frame of reference for living as underrepresented minorities in a culture or country. That frame of reference is necessary for understanding the disappointment. It's not even really about the artistic aspect of it, it's the fact that one less payday goes to an Asian/Asian American actress, one less chance for exposure for Asian/Asian-American actresses in general, and one less chance for consideration in future casting.
We all know that this film will be terrible from the behind camera talent, and I actually feel kind of sorry for the relatively strong supporting cast in that aspect.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yes it's always important to have many different perspectives. But how much value should we put on a perspective that comes from a people who have grown up in a completely different context from us devoid of the issues we face? I mean, yes it's nice to get a foreign perspective, but at the end of the day what purpose does it serve when they don't place as much importance on our issues because they don't fully understand what it's like to grow up as the minority in a country that is 98.5% Japanese? I can look at those perspectives and think "hmm so that must be what it feels like to be a Japanese person living in Japan." Does it actually shine any light on the diversity issue in American media?
The only enlightening thing to me is that your coworkers' line of thinking is very similar to other people who seem to miss the point of the controversy. Thinking that we only care about faithfulness or that we don't understand that Scarjo is a bankable white actress. It almost sounds like you're asking an average American's opinion. Perhaps it is because they are the racial majority in their country that they share the same views as the racial majority here in America.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Insular literally means being ignorant or uninterested in cultures or opinions outside of your own experience. So yes, trying to write off another person's opinion because they do not have a specific sort of experience that you have would fall under that definition.
I thought they had some interesting opinions, especially by bringing up the recent domestic AoT movie and how they erased all European aspects from it and basically destroyed what made the setting unique which is why I decided to share what they said.
I value these people's opinions because I respect them and I have discussions about issues like this with them because I both have things to learn from them and things to teach them. It's the exact same reason why I come to threads like this to state my opinions and discuss these issues.
Nothing about my original post was meant to come off as dismissing any one else's opinion on the matter, and I have agreed with everyone that an Asian-American lead would have been great if they had found a good person for the role.
I made sure to write that post in a way so as not to be dismissing any of the real concerns with this sort of issues.
I did not go up to them and ask them their opinion of Asian-American representation in Hollywood. I framed it as their general opinion on the casting, and of
course that topic came up. The #OscarsSoWhite thing was a big discussion here and we actually talked about it for several hours after the Oscars ended this year.
A lot of their opinions were coming from a business or artistic perspective because that is their frame of reference. That is one of the reasons why I thought it would be good to share their ideas,
as it is a different point of reference. I honestly don't see the harm in getting a Japanese person's opinion of a movie adapted from a Japanese work.
And yes, I was actually surprised that as you say their opinions fell in line with what you could call the average American's opinion. I honestly expected some of the artists to tear the casting apart,
because they are obviously very opinionated about stuff like this.
DryEyeRelief
Member
You didn't seem to take issue with unholyrevenger72 using your anecdotes that way.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Tbh Budokai, I'm curious why you only mentioned the Johansson casting for GiTS. That wasn't the only debate in this thread
How come you didn't bring up "anime characters don't look asian" debate up with them. Everyone else already pointed out the fault in netting opinions about diversity from a homogenous society.
How come you didn't bring up "anime characters don't look asian" debate up with them. Everyone else already pointed out the fault in netting opinions about diversity from a homogenous society.
For some white people, the default ethnicity being something other than their own is a difficult concept to grasp.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Uh I'm on my phone now but isn't that the guy who posted that chain of tweets to which I responded with "actually that guy has a point"
About your second post, I wanted to frame it as neutrally as possible and just wanted to simply ask them what they thought of ScarJo casting. Also I have already had that discussion with them a dozen times. Knowing how they create characters is basically my job as a producer. It's why I hold the opinions I do. Anime characters in general don't look Japanese. They also don't look White. They look Anime. However, Japanese ideals about beauty mean that often times they lean towards Western features.
Valdfellgar
Banned
Which is exceedingly disappointing. Humanity is always finding new ways to disappoint me.
I'd have liked to believe people appreciating a foreign medium would be a little more broad-minded, but I guess they're just more capable at seeing what they want to see everywhere.
You're crazy. All you heard was her voice in Her and its a role that left a huge impact imo.
As far as look goes, many of the characters in the series could go either way, because the skin tone is interchangeable and the faces aren't really realistically drawn... But if the story is set in Hong Kong and Japan, and the characters have Japanese names, you only need to add 2 and 2 together.
I assume most people who argue here that anime characters are white, are not anime fans. When you watch some anime you probably will see an anime that is set in Tokyo and features foreigners that look noticeably different than japanese characters. Hell, I think we even had a discussion on GAF once about how racist the depiction of foreigners are in anime.
neurosyphilis
Definitely not an STD, as I'm a pure.
I don't want to be rude and sorry if I offend anyone, but I can't even tell anime characters are supposed to be Japanese. They all look white. I know some anime does have people that look to be of Asian decent, but never the main characters it's usually minor bad guys. Sorry if I offended anyone, that's just my perspective.
narutomaki04
Banned
I don't have a problem with this. It's Hollywood's adaptation. Not to mention, I'd rather watch a Hollywood live adaptation than a Japanese one :/
Speaking on the ethnicity of anime characters topic, for me I normally don't even really consider that. If I do, though, it's usually based on setting. Usually if an exact location is mentioned like Neo Tokyo etc., I make the connection as Japanese and as the above poster mentioned it's obvious when they draw foreign people.
There are some rare manga/anime that I sometimes think it could go either way, though. Like Berserk. The setting is very medieval and European so I assume that Guts, for instance would be fine as a non Japanese guy. Depends really.
What this movie is doing, however, isn't even remotely in that line of thinking. They're just Hollywood being Hollywood and casting the safe bet on a movie that should be anything but safe to begin with.
There are some rare manga/anime that I sometimes think it could go either way, though. Like Berserk. The setting is very medieval and European so I assume that Guts, for instance would be fine as a non Japanese guy. Depends really.
What this movie is doing, however, isn't even remotely in that line of thinking. They're just Hollywood being Hollywood and casting the safe bet on a movie that should be anything but safe to begin with.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Togusa was always my favorite, so here's hoping.
The thing for me is that I always liked how different GITS' world was where America is in shambles and different powers have taken the stage. Yes, transhumanism is a huge part of the story, but that unique geopolitical landscape is really refreshing.
Zoe
Member
Cow Mengde
Banned
Why didn't they hire Emma Stone?
The idea that western beauty standards are "invading" asia isn't that new.
http://wondergressive.com/rise-in-deracialisation-surgery-beautiful-western-face/
neither is racism, discrimination and prejudice.
what a poorly researched mess. I can't take any article that attributes the prevalence of eyelid surgery to westernized ideals seriously. oh, and "the culture of asia".
Hmm, I felt that if they weren't going to cast Japanese (which given Hollywood wasn't likely) I thought they could have done better than Scarlett Johansson (although it was probably due to her recent film roles). I would have said Charlize Theron would have been a better shout. More authority, more motherly, great actress, and despite the Aeon Flux film being quite pants she showed she looked the part and has the action chops to do it
Also this is how I tend to look at it, I admit in my teens I found it difficult to see a lot of character designs as inherently Japanese through my own ignorance. Now I definitely let the surroundings and context dictate that
Also this is how I tend to look at it, I admit in my teens I found it difficult to see a lot of character designs as inherently Japanese through my own ignorance. Now I definitely let the surroundings and context dictate that
Samurai G0SU
Member
Will it be like the first anime movie? >=D.. hope they make her REALLY BAD A***
slightconfuse
Banned
Looks ok from that shot. Suprised this actually enrtered production
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Eeewwww, really hoping this bombs.
killertofu
Member
Yes but in the case of Taylor/Sam Worthington, they at least had some ground swell where producers/casting directors perk up and go "oh yeah they could be it". That doesn't even apply to people of color yet.
I don't really have a counterpoint other than expressing my frustration over people's frustration over this. Yes, I'm glad that Hollywood is getting criticized about this and I'm glad there's a conversation going on but I still think that movies are too much of a financial risk for these people, so they will immediately divert to known white actors.
I think the bigger play here would be to diversify smaller movies or TV shows first. Let those actors become known and it will lead to greater, bigger roles in Hollywood. God knows I'm tired of black actors only getting big roles if its 1. A historical film (Probably about slavery or civil rights) or 2. A sports movie. And that sort of stuff seeps into other ethnicities too.
n00bsauce87
Member
To the people who said that it's not the fact that the major is japanese, but that she's a cyborg raises a very very compelling point.
I mean to be fair, Kusanagi is and has been mostly a cyborg all of her (its?) life.
So on that alone, I can be willing to give it a change on this adaptation. They really could have picked an asian american actress, but I guess you could do it this way. I feel its though that it's a big leap, but now it's all gonna be on how well the script/acting is.
I don't recall ScarJo working with any of these actors before so how they portray a well knit team like Black Widow to the Avengers is gonna be the challenge.
This is my equivalent to taking a leap of faith.
I mean to be fair, Kusanagi is and has been mostly a cyborg all of her (its?) life.
So on that alone, I can be willing to give it a change on this adaptation. They really could have picked an asian american actress, but I guess you could do it this way. I feel its though that it's a big leap, but now it's all gonna be on how well the script/acting is.
I don't recall ScarJo working with any of these actors before so how they portray a well knit team like Black Widow to the Avengers is gonna be the challenge.
This is my equivalent to taking a leap of faith.
Angelus Errare
Banned
It says a lot that people argue that she has to be white because this is an adaption for America. Reinforcing that white is right/is America the rest of you are slightly less so mentality.
As I've heard echoed, white people can basically play any racial group and hey it's just the best person for the job/most qualified. Suggest a POC and suddenly there's 101 reasons why she/he can't play the part.
As I've heard echoed, white people can basically play any racial group and hey it's just the best person for the job/most qualified. Suggest a POC and suddenly there's 101 reasons why she/he can't play the part.
Majmun
Member
awesome
As much as I found her acting sub-par in Pacific Rim (which was likely not helped by the script - I also thought the acting by most apart from the scientists and Ron Perlman was dire) she looks great for the role and it could have been a watershed moment for Hollywood if the film also ended up being great in terms of less whitewashing in the future. Is her English any better since Pacific Rim though? because for a US centric take on GitS I think there could be some difficulties given the complexity of the dialogue. Saying that however, I don't remember Takeshi Kitano having the greatest English either - If I am way off base I apologise, I haven't watched him in anything since Zatoichi and I can't remember Brothers all that well
radios shipping overview
Member
Realistically, if she were to be in a GitS movie, I'd want her speaking Japanese in it, and by extension for it to be a Japanese-language production. But if that did happen, chances are it'd look like a TV movie, so it's probably better that it didn't.
Absolutely, it really makes me wonder how Takeshi's performance will go. From what I remember of GitS it can get quite in-depth.
I wonder if they will mix English and Japanese
Edit: This is actually making me want to dive in to the original film and series again
GavinUK86
Member
And then there's putting a fully subtitled movie in the cinema and expecting it to make millions.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
wait what?
so white people have to play asian people in order for a film about asians to have an american release?
Angelus Errare
Banned
White people can effectively play any racial group in movies. Most qualified for the job man. But you better give me a damn good reason why X person of color should be in this movie!
- Status