Gordon Shumway
Banned
That depends. Do they serve mulligatawny soup with a hint of crushed apple? If so..
Aus Uni student faces $200,000 bill in Facebook post racism row
- Thread starter BBQMan
- Start date
- Status
User 73706
Banned
Then give me an argument that doesn't resort to "white people need this more than Aboriginal peoples do" as its foundation.
BBQMan
Member
But that is what racism is. You can't just not include a race in it lmao. You actually think you cant be racist to white people?
I want to nominate this as worst post of the month. I know that there are a few other zingers in here, but I think this is the most willfully ignorant and dismissive to societal ills as we'll likely see outside of blatant racism and/or misogyny.
Funyarinpa
Member
"Racial segregation is bad" is enough of an argument on its own. It seems I was wrong in that I could lead you to infer that statement, apologies.
I find it sad that minorities ITT are calling for the exact same thing they suffer from. "They should suffer from what we suffer so it's all OK"
stufte
Member
That's not the foundation of my (or others) argument? I'm saying people shouldn't be segregated by the color of their skin.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think systemic racism against white people is a thing, at least not in America/Australia, "lmao".
EDIT: Meant "systemic", not "systematic". Pardon my french.
User 73706
Banned
On an instanced level, anyone can be racist to anyone. On an institutional level, no, there's a pretty clear-cut difference between how whites have it and how literally everyone else has it. Let me relativize it this way: any chess piece is capable of taking out any other chess piece, but if one player starts out with 15 Queens and one King and the other player starts out with 16 Kings - and the latter player can lose if any one of those Kings is taken - you can't in all good faith say the former player doesn't have the advantage.
stufte
Member
Well yes, systematic racism against whites in America/Australia isn't a very big problem. But racism against whites is absolutely a real thing, and the more you and others are OK with it, the more systematic it will become.
User 73706
Banned
Do both of you feel like Affirmative Action and other minority-based involvement programs are segregating people?
Systemic racism is a subset of racism. It's not the same thing. Systemic racism speaks to cultural and legal system that favours, disfavours or even just categorizes people by their ethnicity. Racism can include the sorts of things my uncle says about white people.
A bruise and a shotgun wound are both injuries. You don't see people crying because the emergency services wouldn't respond to a guy with a fucking bruise. Grow up and at least try and empathize and understand perspective before being so dismissive and going on about semantics. Racism against you annoys you slightly on an internet forum. Racism against me makes me fear for my fucking life.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Non-white people won't be in total control of the institutions any time soon, I think you can rest easy.
DrGonzo615
Banned
Who was arguing this?
People not accepting that excluding a group of people from access to facilities based solely on race = white people need it more?
stufte
Member
No? Affirmative Action isn't segregation. But "this color person" only areas are.
Funyarinpa
Member
Since a post of mine was nominated for the "worst post of the month bar outright racism", let me do the honors of nominating this as "worst post of the month including overt racism".
Also socioeconomic segregation isn't the same as racial segregation within a university.
Also, SubZero, the argument isn't that "A needs this more than B" because it's "A has equal rights to these facilities as B." Access to university facilities are not given based on need (as is the quoted metaphor), but on the basis that you're a student of the university and as such deserve equal treatment as other students.
If it's taken from an existing quota of total students, yes since it's essentially denying others an admission due to their race. Otherwise, great idea though.
And I'm speaking as somebody who has, in fact, objectively suffered from gender quotas.
Wolf Dawgz
Member
"comment". I love your reductionist view of hate speech toward a people based on race. You're quick to up-play onto an "Indigenous" lab which is not a race based qualification, but then proceed to downplay speech that is fueled with racism.
I think that disparaging -anyone- because of their ethnicity is both stupid and toxic, and propagates fundamentally broken ideas.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Maybe she is, it's a total accident that there is set aside areas for her people in the first place. Then that false idea is reinforced by the actions of the people she's/others around. Shame on her
Treating people like they're actually people would involve someone being able to work with people of other races.
User 73706
Banned
You mean white people may actually have to experience what minorities have gone through for hundreds of years, and possibly even face the fact that minorities faced most of those hardships at the hands of white people? That sounds like hell.
Both racial safe spaces and programs like Affirmative Action are rooted in the same principles of racial equity. Also, all people aren't combating the notion that a racial safe space isn't a thing that needs to happen, it's white people that are trying to refute the notion.
BBQMan
Member
Pretty disappointing tbh
I already nominated you. You don't need to double down by making another display of your ignorance.
stufte
Member
How am I having to point out that everyone should just not be racist? I'll never get this "payback/revenge" model of race relations.
Funyarinpa
Member
Defining racial exclusion as "segregation" is racism equal to hate speech now. Oh my days.
From you, that statement's an honor.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
That's an honor. That might be the first time I'm called racist against my own "race".
And yeah, I'd argue the low number of minorities in universities is definitely a symptom of socioeconomic inequities.
User 73706
Banned
Nah. It's a privately-owned space that can grant and lift restrictions and permissions as it finds necessary in order to cultivate an environment that actually fosters equality. "A rising tide lifts all boats" doesn't mean a whole lot if you've got a battleship going up against a canoe.
Posters on FB throw ethnic slurs, play """devil's advocate""" and generally walk ass-first into racial discussions: comment
Woman says that she's fearful of the college's environment specifically because of the "comments" that would pertain to her: hate speech
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The point is that when one is privileged, a recalibration of societal treatment feels like oppression to them. It's nothing compared to the advantages they've had over other races and classes of people for centuries.
I don't. You can offer aid to minorities without literally putting people in different rooms based on race. If you think that's a good idea, you're lost tbh.
Is this really the position you want to hold?
I am non white and think it's a terrible idea.
Similar to "punch up" as a justification for punching instead of thinking punching is terrible, some just want to punch more than anything else and seek moral justification to distinguish why they're different/better than others punching.
User 73706
Banned
get so caught up in your privilege that equity equals white genocide, brehs
stufte
Member
SuperBanana
Banned
What kind of pathetic, lame arse excuse is this? "Hey, we had hardships so instead of eradicating it lets give it to you too!". This kind of mentality is why places like America are so incredibly segregated and fucked up still. People still see it as "white vs minority" or "white vs black" when it should be able fixing social issues as one society.
Funyarinpa
Member
The not-so-implicit assumption that racism can't occur against white people, or that one can't advocate for institutionalized racism of white people, is the real racism here. You're not going to realize that though. You do you, by widening the racial tensions in the US. You do you.
Agreed on the second point but I do not think that translates to justification of racial exclusion.
The space being private or not, in the context of a university, does not entitle it to racial segregation since it does not affect the human right of treatment immaterial of race. To you committing (institutionalized) racism against whites is perfectly all right, though, so you won't realize that.
On the second point, that's a text book example of how not all offense is valid. Student calling out racism is "hate speech"? Bull fucking shit. Talking about the example here. The "ITT:" part IS offensive and worth reproach, but not stating that a university practices racial exclusion.
As long as we're all clear you're after revenge and not equality.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yep. People are born into the world where they're on top, and they don't even recognize it or know how they actually got there. It's not like a movie where they get to see the story of the other side. They just assume they're the good guys.
This thread.
You know what else is disappointing? The deafening silence when threads about numerous racial injustices get posted on GAF in contrast to the pages of "woe is me, white people have it so hard, minorities are destroying themselves" rhetoric that are generated when a single person in a minority group dares do something that oversteps the mark. And even more disappointing is the fact that I have to accept the fact that this forum is progressive when even a harmless white people dancing gif thread gets the odd cry of reverse racism. I guess I shouldn't let the actions of a few individuals taint my view of a whole forum, but people just love to take individual cases to backup their baseless asinine opinions about the whole social justice movement, so what do I know? Since i'm probably an constantly outraged sjw whose secretly a reverse racist and harming my own cause.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Its an argument with no nuance. Its like, if that was all there was to this why do you think this is happening? Why do you think the room exists? Wjy is there a multitude of opinions on this. You're argument is the equivalent of "I'm smarter than you and you should just know and agree with me". Argue an actual point, I am.
I don't think a single indigenous people computer lab on a university campus is a call for everything to be segregated. A large portion of the indigenius population isnt even going to bother using the lab either way. A lab that presents disadvantaged people the ability to catch up is not a call for racial segregation. Its the exact same idea as scholarships. The only issue people take with it is they have an issue with there being a physical area that says "no not for you".
I'm neither an indigenous person nor white and this doesnt bother me. Its not about separation. Its about being unapoloegitc about giving disadvantaged people resources.
Orrrr the nuance of the varying ideologies cannot be so easily and categorically dismissed as "white people just don't get it" or with a colorful comic. And doing so is a fundamental flaw and problem in having a viable and fruitful discussion.
User 73706
Banned
Same reason you might take a veteran suffering from PTSD on a picnic somewhere quiet rather than setting something up the night of the 4th of July: different people have different thresholds and conflicts to overcome, and when peoples' gut reaction is to show their ass and say that an oppressed or otherwise subjugated group doesn't need something as noted by the same majority that oppressed them in the first place, something's up.
Right? We should really be following in the footsteps of places like the Netherlands, where people understand that it's not blackface, it's just Traditional Holiday Fun™ and those Voluntary Migrant Workers™ on the Golden Carriage were having a good time.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
I'm Australian, your friend must keep some shitty company to come to conclusions like that.
Yeah I agree that no university should allow students of one race, ethnicity, religion etc access to resources that others can't use. Edit: Re-reading, this isn't quite that. Apparently the ward was previously established as being for Torres strait and aboriginal students, and other rooms were available. It's okay for safe spaces to exist for these students, I feel, due to the extreme racism thrown at them by the moronic general public. It's also why aboriginal and Torres Strait can get additional benefits and priority whilst job seeking. Many of them are still being treated really poorly.
White people aren't missing out here. Aboriginal students aren't being forced to only use this room.
QUT is a university which is somewhat known for being extremely supportive of women, minority groups, other cultural groups that are often perceived as less priviliged etc, but almost to a fault. It's the same university that did the income by race/gender bake sale.
The main reason the lawsuit is going ahead is this part of the law:
So you effectively can't offend people of other race/ethnicity, whether you meant to give offence or not. It's pretty ridiculous. I personally don't support the continuation of this law.
TheOohChild
Member
I can't really wrap my head around the lawsuit, but I don't have any problem with the idea of spaces reserved for a Indigenous students.
alright, that was pretty fucky
alright, that was pretty fucky
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Corrected myself after, I meant systemic racism. A black person can make fun of you for being white or whatever, but I don't get what that has to do with what's being discussed here. And I don't even get what you mean by "the assumption that one can't advocate for institutionalized racism of white people"... What are you referring to?
And I'm "widening the racial tensions in the US" because I don't think a reserved computer class is outrageous? What the fuck is happening here?
EDIT: And now reserved computer rooms are "revenge"? What. the. hell...
Prototype Viktor
Member
Except in the few cases where it's purposely not equal for all to make up for it being not equal and heavily negative on purpose in the past. I.E. laws that don't apply to Navite Americas or in this case Aboriginals
User 73706
Banned
The country was just healing, too!
SuperBanana
Banned
Keep on walking around with that chip on your shoulder because clearly every white person is a villain and can't be trusted and you gotta stick together with your own kind because segregation, racism, and hatred towards specific groups of people always work, right?
- Status