Giant Bomb: PS4.5 / PS4K is codenamed NEO, more info

hardcastlemccormick said:
No developer intentionally makes a bad product, or a technological mess. It happens.

I'm sure no developer intentionally made Shadows of Mordor, or any number of other poor last gen games that just couldn't pass muster on the 360/PS3. But they came out anyway, asking for $60.

Before the Neo, I could buy any PS4 game without really worrying if it was a bad port. With a few exceptions like Just Cause 3, the console has been a safe place to buy any game. Now? Best do your research, son.



Not every game is Assassin's Creed Unity.
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The PS3 ~ PS4 cross gen stuff was understandable in that they were creating them across two different hardware architectures. It's slightly different here in that in reality it should be far easier to scale the engine across two pieces of hardware running on the same components really, one just clocked higher.

It's not much different than PS4 to XB1 as things stand. Using similar parts (besides memory), just clocked differently. Both x86.

Or as said many times it's not much different than the PC realm where every title needs to scale to different levels of PC power. Doesn't put devs off embracing the PC and trying to make sure low end PCs can at least run games to the best of their ability.
 
NHale said:
The same certification/quality process that allowed PS3 Skyrim and PS4 Broforce (just as examples) to be released?
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Of course there are exceptions, when you cherry pick them. More oftern than not they meet the standards. Besides, they wasn't going to delay Skyrim, a massively anticipated game. And Broforce is an indie game, the rules are relaxed.
 
Audioboxer said:
Component pieces easily picked up at a reasonable price? It's not like the CELL where we have a proprietary CPU. These components can easily slot into the existing PS4 shell and work with the operating system in use.

Plus for VR it will help.
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But is such a small jump even worth upsetting people over? If they came and out and said it's simply a ps4 that plays 4K blurays and up scales games to look a little better on 4K tvs but is identical to regular ps4 when played on a 1080p tv then whatever, it's cool. But it really is bad form to release a better system four years in that will make games run better and make some people feel burned for already having one.

Is it really worth all that for a minor jump in frames or resolution? They should've went big or went home. This little stuff is just mind boggling.
 
Ensoul said:
I wonder that too. For example something like this.

Ps4=Plays all ps4 games.
PS4 Neo= Plays ps4 games and neo games.
Ps4 neo 2= Plays Neo and Neo 2 games (but not playstation 4 games)

That would give each console about a 6 year life cycle?
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I dont think there would be specific Neo Games, but possibly what they do with say mobile development like on iOS. The game(s) have assets that would run on a PS4 and then higher assets available for the NEO to use.

Then they can pretty much enter a model where they can sell revised consoles maybe every 3-4 years.

I think it could work well especially if they keep things in line with the new architecture and ensure backwards compatibility. I really dont see what the issue is especially if its geared towards a certain type of consumer. One who wants High End, vs the mainstream user who cares only about cost above everything else.

Apple has mastered this kind of concept I think it could work in the console world.

It doesnt render your device or experience obsolete just changes the barrier to entry a bit.

If this does come to fruition im ready. im yearning for more 4k content.
 
Audioboxer said:
The PS3 ~ PS4 cross gen stuff was understandable in that they were creating them across two different hardware architectures. It's slightly different here in that in reality it should be far easier to scale the engine across two pieces of hardware running on the same components really, one just clocked higher.

It's not much different than PS4 to XB1 as things stand. Using similar parts (besides memory), just clocked differently. Both x86.
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It's not a flattering comparison. There's a reason why I didn't want to buy an XB1 this generation. It's because the performance was worse, IQ was worse. Some concession has to be made.

The gaming industry always ends up fucking over the person who owns the weaker hardware. Only now it's happened in three years instead of 5-8 years.

Or as said many times it's not much different than the PC realm where every title needs to scale to different levels of PC power. Doesn't put devs off embracing the PC and trying to make sure low end PCs can at least run games to the best of their ability.
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Some developers give a shit. A whole lot of them don't. There's a lot of PC ports that shouldn't require the level of computer they do.

But, yeah, I'm bailing for PC. At least there I get to control my experience a bit more. Plus I don't have to wait for "Neo patches."
 
Red Devil said:
Falling behind the tech curve, sure, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't still be the leading console.
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Well this makes sure they maintain market and tech leadership. PS4 fans tempted to jump to NX or Xbox 1.5 due to the tech advantage might stay with PS4/PSN and jump to PS4k instead.
 
Scrawnton said:
But is such a small jump even worth upsetting people over? If they came and out and said it's simply a ps4 that plays 4K blurays and up scales games to look a little better on 4K tvs but is identical to regular ps4 when played on a 1080p tv then whatever, it's cool. But it really is bad form to release a better system four years in that will make games run better and make some people feel burned for already having one.

Is it really worth all that for a minor jump in frames or resolution? They should've went big or went home. This little stuff is just mind boggling.
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People that are upset tend to fall into two categories IMO. Feigning upset just to have an argument, and those with legitimate concerns. Those in the later category are right to wonder how Sony and developers will handle this as it's new territory for consoles, but one must accept facts and also as things stand just now air on the side of caution as we are all discussing rumours.

The facts IMO are simply looking closely at how PC titles work, and giving devs a bit of credit that usually they do have their games best interests at heart and do not step out to intentionally gimp games technically. Yes there are many examples of poorly optimized games, but there are many examples of technical marvels. Pride in ones work and good company ethic should tow the line for business as usual on PS4 base copies, so 1080/30, and something a bit better on PS4k.

hardcastlemccormick said:
It's not a flattering comparison. There's a reason why I didn't want to buy an XB1 this generation. It's because the performance was worse, IQ was worse. Some concession has to be made.

The gaming industry always ends up fucking over the person who owns the weaker hardware. Only now it's happened in three years instead of 5-8 years.
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To the gaming elite, maybe so, but that's why many people go to a PC and never need to complain, they just upgrade their PCs and enjoy master race graphics. To many others the differences between XB1 and PS4 mean nothing really, and it's about enjoying games and playing with friends. One camp is not like the other, and there's plenty of people in both camps.

It's always been the same with consoles. Xbox more powerful than PS2, Xbox 360 better than PS3 in many ways, PS4 now better than XB1 in many ways. Vita better than 3DS, N3DS better than Vita. On a technical front. Nothing new.
 
Scrawnton said:
Makes you wonder why they're even doing it?
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Might be cause its cheaper to get these than base ps4 components. That or very very close priced and they were going to do a slim any way.

I've come around on this, especially with the upgrades not being much. It would be like a DSi or xbox 360 elite. I was so pissed off about the elite though cause that one came out less than 2 years after the 360 with actual useful features. Like HDMI and built-in WiFi.
 
i would be against this on principle, if it wasn't for the fact that the PS4 felt really underpowered and cheaply built (loud as fuck sometimes) from the start. this is Sony correcting their mistake, we're getting the generational leap we were supposed to get with the basic PS4, a few years late.

also more power is absolutely needed for VR. the PS4 is obviously too weak for any type of meaningful VR experiences. everything i've seen so far look like sad little minigames.

definitely getting it. can't wait to play FFXV as it's intended to, looking and running like the PC footage in the trailers (i hope).

i will eat my words if this becomes a thing for Sony, constantly upgrading their console. i sincerely believe this will be it for the next 4-5 years.
 
Ugh, it hate this type of fragmentation....

As I've gotten older, I've played games less, and I find myself less excited about "upgrading" (NEW Nintendo 3DS comes to mind) and it usually ends up rubbing me the wrong way and I play games on whatever else I have laying around.
 
It's as though this business model was designed day one for this enhancement. Ecosystem can support two machine and hopefully PS5 can take it further after 3 years of PS4K.
 
Audioboxer said:
You could say the same thing right now, PC ports should mean there are a lot more 900p PS4 titles...
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It's the preferred way to deal with the power difference between PS4 and Xbone and those PC bells and whistles over a "medium" setting usually are quite expensive for the visual upgrade they bring. Indicating (for me at least) that there's one optimized version of a game with all assets, light sources, vistas etc. designed to make best use of them. This is not a strictly technical argument, a great effect that you don't show off is practically worthless although it may technically be there.

So I'm fully expecting image quality to be the main differentiator between in an average game Xbone, PS4 and PS4k and those three to be visually about equidistant.
Especially not to harm any version. The PC will continue to play in a league of it's own and double it's GPU power in the same time frame.
 
hardcastlemccormick said:
The gaming industry always ends up fucking over the person who owns the weaker hardware. Only now it's happened in three years instead of 5-8 years.
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This.

We thought we were safe because Sony had the best hardware and the beet selling console, and now Sony itself releases a more powerful PS4 so developers can fuck us over with it.
 
dead monkey uk said:
We have no evidence for this, why is this more likely than PS4 games being unaffected by the PS4K game improvements. Look at Uncharted 4, if this gimped, Ps4 owners will be fine.



Although not confirmed I see this being as much of a motivation for Sony than the gaming improvements.
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It's probably more to be fair. The og ps4 couldn't due uhd out the box due to cost. Specs etc.

The neo gets them this, if it adds a little to the games then that's a bonus.

People going full hyperbole and not reading what the op states.

The reading comprehension on gaf is nigh on 0 😁
 
Audioboxer said:
People that are upset tend to fall into two categories IMO. Feigning upset just to have an argument, and those with legitimate concerns. Those in the later category are right to wonder how Sony and developers will handle this as it's new territory for consoles, but one must accept facts and also as things stand just now air on the side of caution as we are all discussing rumours.

The facts IMO are simply looking closely at how PC titles work, and giving devs a bit of credit that usually they do have their games best interests at heart and do not step out to intentionally gimp games technically. Yes there are many examples of poorly optimized games, but there are many examples of technical marvels.



To the gaming elite, maybe so, but that's why many people go to a PC and never need to complain, they just upgrade their PCs and enjoy master race graphics. To many others the differences between XB1 and PS4 mean nothing really, and it's about enjoying games and playing with friends. One camp is not like the other.
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I completely understand that. But my issue is why would they give us such a minor upgrade after four years? Why not just hold off until the 5 or 6 year mark and out out a much more capable PS5. If anything, this half step makes it seem like the real console gaming leap (ps5) is even further off in the future.

I'd rather not have this and have a ps5 in 2018
 
Interfectum said:
Well this makes sure they maintain market and tech leadership. PS4 fans tempted to jump to NX or Xbox 1.5 due to the tech advantage might stay with PS4/PSN and jump to PS4k instead.
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Sadly I guess I don't have much faith in the future of consoles if PS4 fans could simply jump to the competition because of "tech adventage" and not for the actual games.
 
dose said:
What? You're not saying otherwise? I just quoted you where you said...

You've just completely contradicted yourself.
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I am not .
For eg if DICE made BF5 1080 on PS4k comapre to 900p on PS4 it won't take long .
Plus like i said the conversation was about it going to close down devs and pubs and i was using it in that context .
Coming out with 1 or 2 more pieces of hardware not going to be so much extra work and cost that going shut down EA , Ubi ,Acti etc etc .
 
David Ricardo said:
4) Do the best version possible for PS4k, as that's the one you are going to show in videos and pictures and a somewhat decent port for the PS4 that is acceptable but not as good as it would have been if there was no PS4k.

This is the case we are worried about, and that's a legitimate worry because we have seen it happen already with new 3ds.
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PS4 games already have trouble looking as good as they should on twitch and youtube. Is ludicrous to think current owners will be submarined by PS4K footage that will be indistinguishable streaming online.
 
Scrawnton said:
I completely understand that. But my issue is why would they give us such a minor upgrade after four years? Why not just hold off until the 5 or 6 year mark and out out a much more capable PS5. If anything, this half step makes it seem like the real console gaming leap (ps5) is even further off in the future.

I'd rather not have this and have a ps5 in 2018
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Two reasons IMO

1) They're launching PSVR most likely a few years before PS5 is ready. This will undoubtedly help VR now. PS5 will most likely also want to go for a genuinely large shift in what can be put in a small box with weak cooling. So it needs to wait on chips to get better. You're still going to get a PS5 in 2018~2019, but it will be a far bigger upgrade than this.

2) As I said above, components ready now at a reasonable cost. So why not try it out and see how well it goes in the console realm.
 
etrain911 said:
I should hope that they have a trade-in program.
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even if they do, people trading who bought the original will still have ended up spending more than those just getting neo. it's $400 for the original plus say, $100 (at best) trading in for neo. so you ended up spending $500.

whereas neo first time buyers will have spent $400 (i don't imagine it'll be more expensive than that) so in every way I won't appreciate that the market is shifting to this
 
Arnie7 said:
Specs confirm that PS4K is just PS4 slim. Not even an upgrade to be honest.
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LOL it's like a generational leap in GPU tech, in addition to a step up to the next tier, like going from an AMD 7870 to an r9 290. We don't know GPU clock speeds either, or memory speed. Both might see an additional bump.
 
Scrawnton said:
I completely understand that. But my issue is why would they give us such a minor upgrade after four years? Why not just hold off until the 5 or 6 year mark and out out a much more capable PS5. If anything, this half step makes it seem like the real console gaming leap (ps5) is even further off in the future.

I'd rather not have this and have a ps5 in 2018
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Basically they had new manufacturing but couldn't make the PS4 cheaper:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201340420&postcount=2758
 
Any existing PS4 owners feel like this is a kick in the teeth?
This just has "we didn't futureproof the first PS4 but we've fixed that with this new PS4" written all over it.
 
Theorry said:
Offcourse. But this isnt the usual new gen thing after 8 years or something. :)
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Yes it is. The thing is practically a ps slim,xbox elite or a new 3ds. Console revisions is not a new thing. And no hardware manufacturer ever buys back consoles to sell you a new one.
 
Find it funny people expecting a trade in program. Do other electronic manufacturers offer a trade in when a new improved device is released for sale? Nope. Recycling is not the same either. I recycle my iPhone separately to purchasing a new iPhone.
 
Datsuki said:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-sonys-plan-for-playstation-4k-neo-revealed

New piece from Eurogamer/Leadbetter.
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In our original piece on PS4K, we suggested that Sony may be looking to add support for higher colour gamuts and high-dynamic range - part and parcel of the new UHD 4K spec and definitely supported in upcoming Radeon hardware from AMD. It is not mentioned at all in Sony's documentation, though the support should be there as the platform holder will be using AMD's display blocks. The omission says to us that it's simply not a priority at this time.
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This is my only concern. If they're not including uhd blu-ray and HDR, I can't figure out why they're bothering with the upgrade. If it's not to help sell their expensive tv's and discs, why are they doing it?
 
Breakage said:
Any existing PS4 owners feel like this is a kick in the teeth?
This just has "we didn't futureproof the first PS4 but we've fixed that with this new PS4" written all over it.
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nah.

blastprocessor said:
Find it funny people expecting a trade in program. Do other electronic manufacturers offer a trade in when a new improved device is released for sale? Nope. Recycling is not the same either. I recycle my iPhone separately to purchasing a new iPhone.
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doesn't apple do the iphone forever thing? They buy your old iphone if I'm not mistaken. that's kinda like a trade in.
 
otakukidd said:
Yes it is. The thing is practically a ps slim,xbox elite or a new 3ds. Console revisions is not a new thing. And no hardware manufacturer ever buys back consoles to sell you a new one.
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Oke but a slim or elite has never been more powerfull.
Awell was just curious.
 
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