A Link to the Past
Banned
Because they usually have (or at least had) a major release in the west.
First look at ScarJo as the Major in Ghost in the Shell
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Because they usually have (or at least had) a major release in the west.
PatThePassive
Member
Come on save it for the future threads dang it!
Joking aside I'm just saying that the 95 movie justifies motoko being played by ScarJo and that role alone shouldn't be the one people are complaining about it being whitewashed
When the movie takes place not in japan and has other characters replaced with white actors I agree its bullshit and whitewashing.
Motoko being played by ScarJo is being paraded as an example of Hollywood whitewashing a Japanese character when the 95 movie emphasizes that her artificial body makes her question if she is even herself and there is a 5 minute scene in the middle of a movie of her seeing herself around the city then as a mannequin and then just blank mannequins. Maybe that's what makes the 95 movie goddamn art and this movie will be an embarrassment compared to that.
A Link to the Past
Banned
The issue then becomes the fact that if they even take that approach, it'll be more like an excuse, one that rides the same line as "Cortana is naked because it makes her intimidating." I could maybe buy that too, if not for the fact that Akira and Death Note are getting adaptations where two traditionally Japanese characters are being recast as white.
JRPGs like Final Fantasy 12? The one that sold more in the US and Europe than it did in Japan?
Let's imagine it's bad. Would he really say it?
If it's good, it's good, but I won't stop being concerned until a trailer proves me otherwise.
PatThePassive
Member
The issue I'm having is with the comparing of motoko being played by a white actor is on the same level as Akira or death note having a white cast or lead.
ScarJo Motoko is not a very strong example of whitewashing. but the reactions are putting it on level with a remake of seven samurai staring jon snow.
I goddamn love GITS and Motoko and all this hate is almost an insult shes not a character you can really use as an example of whitewashing especially in comparison to the American Akira script and all the shame involved in that that, or other superior examples
Is this movie even set in Japan anymore? This kind of reminds me of Leonardo DiCaprio's Akira that was rumored to have played around making the actors digitally Asian.
lol that's called the Magnificent Seven, and the newest one stars Denzel Washington and Star Lord.
lol that's called the Magnificent Seven, and the newest one stars Denzel Washington and Star Lord.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
No, what made you ever think an american production of Ghost in the Shell would take place in Japan?
Cabbagehead
Member
Because they have japanse names still lol
Aren't they shooting in New Sealand and Hong Kong?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Motoko has only been officially referred to as The Major so far.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Guys, I don't know if this was brought up, but Fast and the Furious 8 is coming out a couple weeks after GITS.
Paramount is probably looking at a major bomba on their hands. And if Universial moves up the FF8 release date to screw GITS... uh-oh.
Paramount is probably looking at a major bomba on their hands. And if Universial moves up the FF8 release date to screw GITS... uh-oh.
They are actually planned for the same day in the United States, but Furious 7 is the 32th best performing domestic movie. It won't likely be the cause of any demise for Ghost in the Shell. Furious 7 success is linked with China, where it was one of the highest performing movies the last couple of years, but it is the question when Fast 8 and Ghost in the Shell release in China.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
If they're planned for the same day, then Paramount is screwed. Vin Diesel released a teaser poster that confirmed a 14 April release date, so Paramount has a very small window to make money on the film here.
GITS needs a big OW to have any chance of not being an embarrassment. Is it being released in China anyways? That's kind of a big question, come to think of it.
Too early to tell. Paramount might be sold to the Chinese by then.
Mr. Pointy
Member
Furious 7 still had a near $150m OW though and F8 will probably beat that. Unless the trailers and pre-release reviews for GITS are amazing, it's going to get run over.
Not this shit again.
Japan is probably the least multicultural country in the modern world, while the USA prouds itself as buffett of a massive amount of different cultural identies and ethnics. It's reasonable that japanese productions default to japanese, it's not reasonable that US productions default to white. It's in America so it has to be white, wha-? The USA has asian, japanese actors, they just refuse to use them. Like they refused african americans big roles in Exodus. Like they often refuse most non-ehites outside of stereotypic characters.
ediy
Oh wait, you were sarcastic. Anyway, general point still stands.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Motoko is going to owe Dom a ten second car when this is all said and done.
I'm just amazed at how quickly Paramount lost the messaging war.
This meme will never get old. lol
Mr. Pointy
Member
Just saying, that first GITS trailer better be up to this level for people to forget about whitewashing.
The press tour is going to be amazing.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
If Box Office Mojo is accurate, Furious 7 had a domestic opening of $147 million, overall domestic cume of over $350 million and a worldwide cume of $1.1 billion.
Either GITS gets delayed out of this suicidal release window, or Paramount better be calculating the writedown by now.
Either GITS gets delayed out of this suicidal release window, or Paramount better be calculating the writedown by now.
I imagine everyone from Johansson on down to Bob In Catering has been given strict orders to issue no-comments on the race issue, and that any Q&A session will be strictly controlled in terms of questions being asked.
Furious 8 will open bigger than Ghost in the Shell, but I don't think it will be a steamroll that crushes every movie in the same weekend. Or better said, if Ghost opens weak, I wouldn't look at Furious 8 to blame for that. A good movie would survive in the same weekend. Compared to let's say opening against Star Wars.
Valdfellgar
Banned
Man I am getting real sick of the GitS defense force telling me "This is just how the industry works." whenever this comes up in Facebook groups.
I've been to film school, been working on breaking into the industry for over five years, I definitely know how the industry works and just because I don't accept it as how things should be, apparently I need it explained to me over and over and over. Ugh.
Boy, I can't wait for this film to tank and then get to hear "It's because you made a big deal out of the ScarJo casting it failed, it's all your fault." Bleck.
Anyway, OT I guess, FF8 will probably do some serious damage to GitS if they're releasing that close together. Not even because of the casting, but simply by brand recognition. If they stick with that date might as well be sending the film out to do die in my opinion.
I've been to film school, been working on breaking into the industry for over five years, I definitely know how the industry works and just because I don't accept it as how things should be, apparently I need it explained to me over and over and over. Ugh.
Boy, I can't wait for this film to tank and then get to hear "It's because you made a big deal out of the ScarJo casting it failed, it's all your fault." Bleck.
Anyway, OT I guess, FF8 will probably do some serious damage to GitS if they're releasing that close together. Not even because of the casting, but simply by brand recognition. If they stick with that date might as well be sending the film out to do die in my opinion.
A Link to the Past
Banned
You're simply not getting this - the problem is that for all of the excuses you can conjur up to make this more okay, the reason ScarJo is Motoko is not because the narrative and character design allows for it, it's because they want to cast white women in the roles of Asian women (and Asian men, apparently). If GitS had Motoko say "I'm absolutely, 100% not white", ScarJo would still be the top pick to play her by the studios.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Im surprised after the Internet reaction they haven't released a full marketing pic of ScarJo in either a combat suit, body suit or military uniform to try and win a few people over at least.
Valdfellgar
Banned
Could be two things: One there just isn't much yet to show, or at least, to a finished state that they believe it'll do any good.
Or there's already, behinds the scenes, little confidence in this film already.
DryEyeRelief
Member
I'm saving this post for future use. Because this is excellent.
Wanted to say, overwhelmingly agree with you there (and I know I don't often but damn when you're right, you're fucking right).
Was incredibly frustrated by ScarJo's casting choice when I saw it. Call it whitewashing, or lazyness from hollywood, or market targetting. At this point I am SURE there are plenty of at LEAST asian-american actresses who could be fit for the role of Motoko Kusanagi of the JAPANESE NATIONAL PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION. Not just for fidelity but also encourage actual diversity among women actresses
Wouldn't casting any Asian-American be just as bad, though? Kinda "All Asians are pretty much the same, whatevs" vibe from that.
EdibleKnife
Member
Better than choosing none and claiming that Hollywood has a deficit of Asian talent. Whitewashing the role helps no one but the status quo, while hiring someone actually Asian creates a precedent for actually hiring multicultural talent.
I'm sure Japan would love if they had casted a Chinese actress. They would probably rather see ScarJo.
Ideally I would prefer a japanese actress and have the movie respect the setting but even I know that is wishful thinking. But I think one of the core problems is the fear from hollywood of someone even LOOKING asian wouldn't sell as much. Even having more asian-american actors would be a nice first step, similar as to having more black actors, hispanic actors and so on.
At this point the fanboy in me is disgruntled enough we're even getting a hollywood live action. But if you're gonna piss off japan regardless by doing it, at least do it by promoting diversity in your home movie industry.
Extra points if they can actually get an actress of japanese descent which i'm sure is not a mythical creature too, either in ameircan or abroad, who would like to star in a ghost in the shell movie
Who says they are pissing of Japan by casting someone white? Japan-Chinese relationships are at an entirely different level. The United States for instance didn't ban Japanese movies for years.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Aww, thanks :v
See, it wouldn't be as ideal, but just as bad? No way. Over-grouping Asians is a problem, but it's more ideal than erasing them.
Is Japan actually pissed off by the casting? The reactions I've read were mostly neutral or positive. It's the Asian Americans who feel screwed over by the casting.
Well, Japanese don't feel underpresented, since they have their own movie industry where they are represented pretty good. As people said, it's an american movie. Why can't japanese-americans and generally asian-americans have representation from their own movie industry?
I don't even know myself. By experience I would say a majority would be indifferent, a subset of otakus would probably be mad (not especially about ScarJo but probably just the entire americanization of the movie) but I doubt they pay particular attention to the actors or actresses themselves until the movie is out. Like said above, Japan has it's own movie industry so they don't really feel that involved, and they have already "Ghost in the shell", the original. But that is my guess entirely
Yeah, and I think that's a good point. It's the suggestions of casting Japanese natives that just confuses me a little. That wouldn't help Asian Americans that much either (though admittedly still more than casting scarjo)
Mainly that it was a robotics company being attacked, but I guess the name of it isn't Japanese.
Its simple because never happened before. No wonder the GiTS producer never imagine an japanese in the leader role... because it NEVER happened before in a hollywood movie... why would he think it chance now?
Just think how many times you saw an asian as main role in a movie... yeah that's right... it's hardly enough to count in a hand lol
Spike Spiegel
Member
Isn't the Major a brain in a hardcase?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yes, but that's just a flimsy justification - it's more likely that the same thing that's happening to Death Note and Akira is happening here, they just have a better excuse.
teruterubozu
Member
Yes but the hardcase is Made in Japan.
Zoe
Member
I personally think people suggesting Japanese from Japan actors is part of the problem. If it's an American production, shouldn't it be natural to look to American actors first?
I refuse to believe there are no Japanese-American actors out there.
you are just trying to rationalize the whitewashing.
At some point it's just a numbers game, though. Through some googling, I found that there are 1,3m Japanese-Americans, or around 0,4% of the population. Half of them are women. Even a smaller percentage of them are the right age. Of those women, a tiny, tiny minority are actresses. And even a tinier minority of those actresses will ever be part of a Hollywood production. Searching for 'actress' on Wikipedia's list of notable Japanese-Americans brings up a whopping 30 results.
Contrast that with African Americans, who are around 15% of the population. That's such a big number, there are several global mega-stars like Will Smith, Samuel Jackson, Jamie Foxx and Morgan Freeman. Mostly male, though.
Valdfellgar
Banned
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I thought the ghosts were patterns and not actual brains, and the body, or 'hardcase' is the shell. In any case the Major's shell was manufactured in Japan and made for somebody who is part of a Japanese force, so presumably the body is meant to reflect an individual of Japanese ancestry. I do not recall completely if that is ever stated in the series, just my most reasonable assumption.
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