Chobel
Member
And all PS4 devs have to develop in this Neo Mode? Because if so, it's fucking bullshit. How come devs are forced to develop for both PS4 and PS4K if Sony isn't gonna make it easier for them to port to PS4K?
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
And all PS4 devs have to develop in this Neo Mode? Because if so, it's fucking bullshit. How come devs are forced to develop for both PS4 and PS4K if Sony isn't gonna make it easier for them to port to PS4K?
OsirisBlack
Banned
Yea but this just seems like a recipe for disaster.
Studio A puts in extra work and makes a neo game with improved frame rate and graphics.
Studio B pulls a copy and paste making the PS4 and Neo game like for like and is berated and called Lazy amongst other things.
As much as I am excited for the system I can see it adding all kinds of extra bs into the dev and gaming community.
I want to see if the upgrades will allow for better draw distance so the grass doesn't disappear 2 feet from your position in FF15...i want that as well as more grass. MORE
It is their prerogative to make games how they want to make them, just like right now. As long as they are in a playable format, that should be the only real thing. I doubt things will be a disaster because somebody called a developer 'lazy'. That only will happen if the game runs like shit.
It is their prerogative to make games how they want to make them, just like right now. As long as they are in a playable format, that should be the only real thing. I doubt things will be a disaster because somebody called a developer 'lazy'. That only will happen if the game runs like shit.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ummm, read the posts after his.
They do that now... with 'parity' of cross platform or not. Internet shouters will continue to shout regardless.
You can either Ubisoft it, or you can EA DICE it.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Who cares about the bolded? Fans calls devs lazy all the time for games not being 60 fps in every game ever made. This will be no different.
So now SONY hints there will be no PS5.
PlayStation truly will be a phone now. How wonder how many iterations they go before they abandon older systems.
Shuhei Yoshida Reportedly Unsure If There Will Be a PS5
PlayStation truly will be a phone now. How wonder how many iterations they go before they abandon older systems.
Shuhei Yoshida Reportedly Unsure If There Will Be a PS5
SolidSnakex
Member
Outside of 4 and 5 they're usually on point when it comes to handling their projects. GT6 was their last game and it was announced in May of 2013 and released in December of that year.
That's just the media jumping to conclusions. No company ever talks about the next platform this early in advance. If they're releasing a 4.5, then they're obviously not going to want to talk or hint at anything when it comes to the PS5.
NullPointer
Member
Guaranteed.
It'll be far worse if the NEO version plays fine while the base model is left to deal with performance issues.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So why do most Xbox One games play fine?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
NullPointer
Member
I think a lot of year one games on that system didn't, in terms of tearing and frame drops, and you still see some of that, though things have improved and expectations have finally settled down and I think people expect lower resolution on XBO as opposed to PS4 titles.
But I thought there were even bigger differences between the NEO and the PS4 than there are between the PS4 and XBO.
Regardless, if busted or bad performing games come out on the PS4, with the NEO-mode versions running smooth, there will be blood.
The only reason I'd expect to see a PS5 is if Sony wants to purposefully break compatibility with the PS4 for business reasons. They don't need to, and an iterative hardware model makes a PS5 much less likely imo. I'm sure there'll be more console revisions, but they can keep most compatibility moving forward.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This will eventually happen with some games regardless of Neo. Think of the poor Xbox One then in that instance.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Can any techgaf comment on this?
NullPointer
Member
Certainly, and the fact that the NEO exists will only add chum to those waters.This will eventually happen with some games regardless of Neo. Think of the poor Xbox One then in that instance.
Am not speaking with any kind of authority on this - that's only the impression I've gotten from these latest NEO threads and podcasts.
vpance
Gold Member
A good thing overall IMO. Forces devs to up their standards if anything. Sometimes a little competition is necessary.
I wonder how true is this for most devs. Even if #ColinIsRight his sources are only anecdotal aren't they? That one dev doesn't speak for all devs. I do hope that devs are more enthusiastic about it than a lot of people are online. They bring these consoles to life and if they aren't happy it usually leads to bad ports (ie PS3)
Side Note: This new "Upgrade console" thing probably means that all games will be backwards compatible from now on... That's kind of a cool future
Side Note: This new "Upgrade console" thing probably means that all games will be backwards compatible from now on... That's kind of a cool future
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed. Just as I said... you can have your AssCreed/Ubisoft's, or you can have your EA/DICE's.
Both can provide great experiences, however, I would tip my cap more towards the latter taking advantage of said system performances at their disposal.
Well, there have been a few GAF respected devs on here saying this is 'bullshit' in this very thread. Colin's anecdotal is lead with his feelings on the matter. It could have been more... thorough, to not create so much FUD. But that is not his responsibility in that regards, and he knows it. That is left to the readers/gamers to interpret, and again, he knows it.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Having to develop for potentially 6 devices(PS4, PS4K, XB1, XB1.5, NX, PC) will no doubt be a pain for devs.
For PC developers it really shouldn't be an issue, as they deal with literally thousands of possible configs.
For console exclusive devs, yes, more console skus will mean more work for them
NullPointer
Member
I still think the best way to present this idea is for Sony to announce and enforce some real quality standards on the PS4 base, not just the NEO. That way current owners could be assured that not only will the base model be supported, but that the NEO won't fix performance problems as much as enhance already solid games. If NEO is the only one with a quality requirement and the NEO mode patch is required on day one, common sense dictates that that's less dev time to put towards the PS4 base version of the game.
Its a minefield they're forcing themself to walk by putting this out there early into this generation.
OsirisBlack
Banned
I have heard similar just want to know if anyone has done the numbers on the distance between the neo and ps4. For that matter what the rift looks like between the neos specs and the xb1.
Audioboxer
Member
So the second they went to HD it got worse... They've been a disaster ever since the PS3 started. 6 was basically GT5.5 and should have been a launch for PS4. I love PD, but they've been terrible with mishandling things for years now.
Awful, awful post.
All PS4 games will work in neo, but all games october onwards will ship with a mandatory neo mode. The neo mode requirement of framerate/performance needed to match or be better than the ps4 is there to stop developers from going overboard with graphical enhancements on the neo and ending up with a lower framerate then the regular ps4 version. And if the other report is to believed, them any ps4 game released from october onwards, will not be under 1080p on the neo. Whereas games like Battelfront, Battelfield 4, assassins creed syndicate that have released already at 900p, will still run at 900p on the neo unless the devs patch them (which is not required as they released before september 2016).
Also, late september games will require a day 1 patch for a neo mode (aka Final Fantasy XV).
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Performance wise on paper, it is a bigger leap over the PS4, than the PS4 is over the Xbox One. Even more so when you compare Neo to Xbox One.
You are talking 4.2TF (give or take some Gflops) compared to 1.84TF to 1.31TF and some change, with a 33% boost to CPU performance, as well as a bump in memory bandwidth. Now if the devs take advantage of all that power with the "Neo Mode/Executable", we will have to see.
That jump, with the SDK efficiency they had last year to the GPGPU, CU's, and lowering CPU overhead, should theoretically have no issue running UC4 in it's current form at 60fps on Neo (if they are in the 40-45fps threshold of locked and stable 30fps).
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It's a scenario that has similarities because of the hardware bump, but the development environments for both consoles have very different demographics (East vs West) and priorities (portability vs high end graphics).
I don't think it's unreasonable to say there are far, FAR more console developers who emphasize bleeding edge, high end graphics compared to mobile or handheld developers. Many developers are already making games with assets and graphical features that are impossible on PS4 and Xbox One. If the PS4.5/Xbox whatever become the new baseline, downporting (and all that entails) and de facto exclusives are inevitable.
Mister Megative
Banned
Did AV Club or someone come out and directly challenge Colin's tweet with sources of their own? I can't find it.
Oh look, Shu says there may not be a PS5. Wealp, it was a good run, GAF. Let's pack it up, boys. Sony is leaving the console race.
.......how did I do?
Oh look, Shu says there may not be a PS5. Wealp, it was a good run, GAF. Let's pack it up, boys. Sony is leaving the console race.
.......how did I do?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This post is making me actually want a PS4 NEO even more lol.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Same, lol. I mean think about it. Look at HOW FREAKING AMAZING Uncharted 4 looks now. On a 1.84TF PS4. Now imagine what could be done, with 2.3x the GPU power, and 33% more juice in the CPU?
Can't not wait for the UC4 'remastered patch' when this launches to have 1080p/60fps, lol.
Lawd... GoW4 and Deep Down 'Neo Mode' is going to be quite remarkable (and hope they show it at E3).
Audioboxer
Member
You forgot to say according to your sources who are positive Sony is leaving the console race, and there will be no PS5.
I don't know about this, it's not the way I read it. They mention the game has to at least run as well in neo mode as in normal mode. What about games like Rayman Legends where it's pretty much maxed out on a regular PS4? I'm sure we'll see cases of absolute parity between both SKUs.
To me, that's the biggest question mark with this whole thing. As a customer, it's hard to assess the value of the PS4K... but it's also gonna suck if you stick to the original model when that one game that takes real advantage of the PS4K comes around. It's kind of an unclear situation at the moment.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Maybe eventually. Time will tell. I just don't see any reason to believe around launch or even for some time thereafter that any dev is going to say to themselves "our vision is too grand to care about the tens of millions of PS4 owners. Let's just target the PS4.5."
Mister Megative
Banned
Soooooo......8/10?
SEGAvangelist
Member
Hopefully they target the PS4.5 once the PS5 (will it even be called this?) comes out in 2019 or something. I'm all for 3 year cycles with forwards and backwards compatibility.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Mister Megative
Banned
Whoa there Polygon... at least an 8.5.
BRUH
Audioboxer
Member
Whoa there Polygon... at least an 8.5.
A re-review of 8.5 once the omission is fixed.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They only give higher than an 8 if theres a decent launch library that shows the power of Neo. Otherwise, its under 8 for lack of innovation.
Audioboxer
Member
Don't worry if he slips up again, we'll go down to a 4.5 score first. Flexible review system, ya know?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I am cracking up over here.
I wish Colin would come in and at least shed statistical light on his Tweet. We do not need any names, or what their development houses or publishers are... just how many said this.
I agree. He has his bias in the matter, and has made it clear what side of the fence he is one every time it is brought up. Thus the narrative in the Tweet. Just back up with numbers, don't make a blanket open ended anecdotal statement, when we already know the side of the fence you are on. You are just muddying the waters for those who do not follow you so closely and can read between the lines.
Mister Megative
Banned
I am cracking up over here.
I wish Colin would come in and at least shed statistical light on his Tweet. We do not need any names, or what their development houses or publishers are... just how many said this.
I want to say again: I really like and respect Colin. But we've had numerous, VERY reputable persons, sources and devs say his tweet simply is not accurate. Doesn't matter how close he is to Sony or Playstation. There's no way his source is speaking for the majority of devs. That is clear.
Audioboxer
Member
I am cracking up over here.
I wish Colin would come in and at least shed statistical light on his Tweet. We do not need any names, or what their development houses or publishers are... just how many said this.
But that may or may not take wind away from a sweeping statement of "most". As much as Colin seems like a really cool guy, everyone loves their internet fame/ego.
He's got a 38 page GAF thread so far
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I am cracking up over here.
I wish Colin would come in and at least shed statistical light on his Tweet. We do not need any names, or what their development houses or publishers are... just how many said this.
I agree. He has his bias in the matter, and has made it clear what side of the fence he is one every time it is brought up. Thus the narrative in the Tweet. Just back up with numbers, don't make a blanket open ended anecdotal statement, when we already know the side of the fence you are on. You are just muddying the waters for those who do not follow you so closely and can read between the lines.
So I'm still wondering......what is the extra 512 MBs of RAM going to be used for?
CosmicQueso
Member
It is likely to do a number of other things. But if all you particularly care about this doing is the framerate issue, well, you have to make your own decision.
He's so tired though.
Caipirinha
Member
Weren't devs complain that the original PS4 (and the Bone) was underpowered?
"More creative scope", yeah right, those devs really thought this through.
They wouldn't say no to a more powerful PS4 obviously, but this doesn't mean they would be asking for iterative consoles.
ElephantShell
Banned
Even if we're comparing consoles to phones now, saying there won't be a PlayStation 5 is like saying there won't be an iPhone 7.
Of course there fucking will.
Of course there fucking will.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
For sure. It doesn't make business sense. By the time PS4 OG hardware becomes long in the tooth, PS5 will be available to pre-order in stores anyway.