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[Kintaro]

You don't even have a Sony example? lolol

They, smartly, haven't tried it. Until now I guess?

It's not Sony hasn't had it's own blunders and failures and overreactions to the market or its competitors. Should I list those? Should I bring in some Vita owners? Move early adoptors? Everyone fucks up. =P

Your examples are....
1) A handheld game from Nintendo
2) Microsoft's Xbox 360 which did not have an internal HDD.

Show me a example where Sony made something like this?
You won't find one for the PS1, PS2, PS3. We are talking about a PS4K with a 'small' spec upgrade. It's not like PS4 is missing internal memory / a whole HDD and the PS4K has one. We're talking about a small spec upgrade.
PS4 = Standard
PS4K = Game looks/performs a bit better

That's it.

My Nintendo example is pretty much exactly the situation Sony is diving into. 3DS vs. N3DS and I brought up a title which is shit on one SKU and not on the other. And a title which is exclusive to the newer version. Are you going to argue that the N3DS is a large bump in power? Substantially so?

Hyrule Warriors Legends is an example of what will probably happen going forward if increments become the norm. It "plays" on the "standard" system but plays like dog shit compared to the "newer" one.

No, I don't have a Sony example. Because they have stayed out of the practice of muddying up the waters for themselves. I'm pretty sure in several years time, we'll have plenty of examples of this fucking up.

Sony PS3 12gb couldn't play GTA V or a number of other games.

Oh shit. Completely forgot about this one. Good luck playing MGS4, GTAV and many games that mandatory install on this version of the console. Sure, you can install a HDD, but we fully expect parents to know how to do that, right? =P

 

[Audioboxer]

It is when it inevitably leads to people who own the standard PS4 getting substandard versions of games.

As opposed to getting the version of a game they were always going to get because their current PS4 has finite resources?

Both are actually the same thing. Joe Bloggs down the street might just get to play it with fancier lighting because... he spent more money than you or bought something years after you. That is life.

Unless we're going back to the everyone jumping on the 640p/25 FPS automatic editions of every original PS4 game now. Because that surely does make the most sense and is logical.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Different people obviously tackle this from different perspectives. But when people bring up the cautionary tale of the N3DS and what it meant for 3DS owners, I feel the opposite of a lot of people. I feel like some are approaching it from the perspective of "see how it screwed over 3DS people! They missed out on one game completely and got a crappy version of another." As an N3DS owner, I kind of approach it from the perspective of "why did I bother to upgrade to this thing?"

I mean, I know why I did. I traded in my existing 3DS and the Vita I didn't use anymore and got it for no cash out of pocket. So I don't really feel that burned by it. But I'm just saying that I'm not sitting here feeling like I'm living high on the hog looking down on those regular 3DS-owning peasants. There's some perks, but it's hardly that big of a deal.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

As opposed to getting the version of a game they were always going to get because their current PS4 has finite resources?

Both are actually the same thing. Joe Bloggs down the street might just get to play it with fancier lighting because... he spent more money than you or bought something years after you. That is life.

I think it comes down to this with consoles... We all have the same experiences, same funny bugs and glitches, same graphical experience. All these things we can all talk about and experience together. As consoles have always been. But now a superior version of a console coming out means people will be on a different elite playing field to everyone else. The amount of dick waving that will happen is going to be interesting when this thing comes out that's for sure! Plus not only that we will still have console war shit posting, and pc elitist-like ps4k bragging lol.

 

[jmdajr]

No, I don't have a Sony example. Because they have stayed out of the practice of muddying up the waters for themselves. I'm pretty sure in several years time, we'll have plenty of examples of this fucking up.

Not sure how this affects things going forward. PS4 launch didn't even have that many great games to begin with. And now that things are rollin', we are taking this sudden turn.

Why would I want to be there for when PS5 launch? There won't be any real great launch games, and when things get good, PS5.5 will be out.

Outside of phones because the dumb things don't last long, I like my tech investment to last awhile before I upgrade. Computers, laptops, etc.

I know people will say "Your PS4 will still work." But it will be an afterthought.

Sony doesn't owe us anything? Well neither do we to them. They must certainly think more than enough will like this new business practice. Guess we shall see.

 

[Audioboxer]

I think it comes down to this with consoles... We all have the same experiences, same funny bugs and glitches, same graphical experience. All these things we can all talk about and experience together. As consoles have always been. But now a superior version of a console coming out means people will be on a different elite playing field to everyone else. The amount of dick waving that will happen is going to be interesting when this thing comes out that's for sure! Plus not only that we will still have console war shit posting, and pc elitist-like ps4k bragging lol.

But in it's own right this already happens when the PS5 comes out and some folks maybe can't afford it and have to stay on PS4 a bit longer. So cross-gen multiplatform titles exist.

People should be grown up enough to let options like this exist without toys going out of prams to the point of saying Billy shouldn't play something fancier than me, end of. You can have a grumble and say damn I wish I had enough cash to chuck around like Billy, but heyho I'm still getting to play the same games as him.

I get it's a teething pain for people who've strictly been console only, but welcome to what PC gamers have lived with forever, on an even more steroid based path (3,000 new GFX cards a year). I also get the worry about it somehow manifesting into yearly refreshes, but cmon, nothing suggests going to something as crazy as that. Sony couldn't afford the R&D alone to be doing console iterations every 12 months.

We're borrowing a little from the PC realm, but it's like dipping toes in time, not diving in head first.

 

[Ushay]

There is definitely a market for the high(er) end console. I don't expect this to be any different than developing cross gen. Surely MS/Sony will make that process as simple as possible between their consoles?

 

[Skull_Guppy]

This whole situation is strangely fascinating to me . I'm beyond curious to see how everything will play out in the end. Especially from a marketing standpoint, how do you even......how? I also wonder if Sony intended for this information to get out to see how the market would react and identify the concerns they need to tackle. I personally love to see the evolution of games on a platform and see developers learning, adapting, and pushing the boundaries of performance of a spec locked piece of hardware. Performance is great, but at the end of a day I just want to play a good game. Some days I fire up my PS4 and will play some Dark Souls; other days I fire up the NES Toploader and play some Castlevania. If this is making the already gruelingly difficult process of game development even harder then I am against it.

 

[DannyDanger]

They, smartly, haven't tried it. Until now I guess?

It's not Sony hasn't had it's own blunders and failures and overreactions to the market or its competitors. Should I list those? Should I bring in some Vita owners? Move early adoptors? Everyone fucks up. =P

I'm not saying Sony cant fuck up, but damn, if you're gonna use history as a reason for concern atleast cite the company in question lol

Sony PS3 12gb couldn't play GTA V or a number of other games.

Thats the reverse of this situation... This would be a problem if the 12gb released at launch and the later skus had larger hdds.

Also the fact that you can change hdd easily, pretty much nullifies this

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

But in it's own right this already happens when the PS5 comes out and some folks maybe can't afford it and have to stay on PS4 a bit longer. So cross-gen multiplatform titles exist.

People should be grown up enough to let options like this exist without toys going out of prams to the point of saying Billy shouldn't play something fancier than me, end of. You can have a grumble and say damn I wish I had enough cash to chuck around like Billy, but heyho I'm still getting to play the same games as him.

I get it's a teething pain for people who've strictly been console only, but welcome to what PC gamers have lived with forever. I also get worry about it somehow manifesting into yearly refreshes, but cmon, nothing suggests going to something as crazy as that. Sony couldn't afford the R&D alone to be doing console iterations every 12 months.

Pc gamers have been around since gaming started. The whole reason consoles exist is because of it being a closed platform where everyone has the same experience.

Yes we have cross gen games but that's after 5-10 years of owning a console. By which at that point your 400 quid console has had its fair share of playing and feels like it's been a good ride, and time to move on with the next console.

But if we start bringing in slightly better versions every 3 years then your consoles value diminishes a lot more quickly, and for people who have to save up and scrimp for a console, and then try and trade it in for the latest iteration, only getting pennies for your console because it's now been another 2 iterations since your version .... I can understand why people would be hesitant on the iterative model or whatever you want to call it. You'd be surprised by how many people out there trade in their old console for the latest one. Or save up for months and months to get the latest console. Not everyone is like us enthusiasts. Most of us will probably lap this shit up, even after complaining about it. But at the end of the day it will be interesting to see how the general population responds to this.

 

[Audioboxer]

Pc gamers have been around since gaming started. The whole reason consoles exist is because of it being a closed platform where everyone has the same experience.

Yes we have cross gen games but that's after 5-10 years of owning a console. By which at that point your 400 quid console has had its fair share of playing and feels like it's been a good ride, and time to move on with the next console.

But if we start bringing in slightly better versions every 3 years then your consoles value diminishes a lot more quickly, and for people who have to save up and scrimp for a console, and then try and trade it in for the latest iteration, only getting pennies for your console because it's now been another 2 iterations since your version .... I can understand why people would be hesitant on the iterative model or whatever you want to call it.

One of the reasons. A big one, sure, but we can't simply boil down the success of consoles to one or two reasons. That is why they do do so well, they appeal to many different individuals across the gaming market with a whole slew of benefits. A PS4 Neo does not manifest itself as now needing user configuration, driver installation, OS tweaking and hit you with an abundance of graphics sliders. All of this is still done on the dev end, hence some grumbles about workload.

Large parts of said markets like with other products in life probably value their investment on how much they use something after they've bought it. You only really see the most hardcore obsess over "buying a console has to be a grand investment I relish in 7 years...". Most will buy something because they want to play it, like some games, and maybe have friends with it. Not how many bullet points they can tick off a list to make sure their fairly paltry, in the grand scheme of investing, £300~400 somehow gives some sort of hypothetical return 5~7 years later.

Sure most humans do some sort of research and pros and cons style list, but I really think in the grand scheme of things people are really overreacting about the supposed widespread upset that someone with one PS4 can play something a bit prettier than you. I wage a bet most will simply be going about gaming business on either iteration, enjoying the same games as long as Sony handle their parity promise well.

 

[SolidSnakex]

And with a proposed slimming and price cut of the original PS4, the price will match the value proposition.

Those people that just bought a PS4 this year when there was no sign of this bullshit happening aren't going to feel that way.

But in it's own right this already happens when the PS5 comes out and some folks maybe can't afford it and have to stay on PS4 a bit longer. So cross-gen multiplatform titles exist.

The difference is in expectations. There's always an expectation that there wil lbe a PS5. Probably 5 or so years after the PS4 initially released. There's no such expectation for an incremental upgrade of the existing unit. In fact, Sony was pushing that messaging just last month. This is what they were saying

And Andrew House

"Because PS4 is a fixed platform, developers can optimize their platform knowing that the experience will be identical across all users."

So they were talking about this and putting messaging squarely in the field of "There's one PS4 and that's it" all the while apparently knowing that it was bullshit and in fact they were doing this.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Sony doesn't owe us anything? Well neither do we to them. They must certainly think more than enough will like this new business practice. Guess we shall see.

I'm still on the fence between being a naysayer and being on board with this iterative console concept, but I will say though that you're not wrong for feeling miffed by the console space suddenly shifting gears into the iterative model.

Basically, you are a prime example of the type of customer Sony needs to sell on this idea, and prove that it's not only going to be worth it to upgrade, but also that you can expect the same sort of value proposition out of these iterations that you would out of your smartphone.

I'm not really one to talk though, as I purchased a Nexus 4 at launch, a Nexus 5 at launch, and then a Nexus 5X at launch. Google/LG have hardly made advancements between those models that I would compare to that of a whole console generation leap, but I found the benefits introduced in each model worth shelling out $350-$400 for each time.

If the PS4K really does have 1080p/60 Remote Play and DVR, noticeably (subjective) better graphics in both normal games and PSVR, UHD media/BD support, and comes at a price tag of $400... I wouldn't really mind upgrading if I had the extra money.

 

[MajinSweet4]

Different people obviously tackle this from different perspectives. But when people bring up the cautionary tale of the N3DS and what it meant for 3DS owners, I feel the opposite of a lot of people. I feel like some are approaching it from the perspective of "see how it screwed over 3DS people! They missed out on one game completely and got a crappy version of another." As an N3DS owner, I kind of approach it from the perspective of "why did I bother to upgrade to this thing?"

I mean, I know why I did. I traded in my existing 3DS and the Vita I didn't use anymore and got it for no cash out of pocket. So I don't really feel that burned by it. But I'm just saying that I'm not sitting here feeling like I'm living high on the hog looking down on those regular 3DS-owning peasants. There's some perks, but it's hardly that big of a deal.

While I agree with pretty much everything here, I think this shows the potential of how this could turn bad and why people are worried. I'll use myself as an example even. I bought a PS4 because I love Souls and Bloodborne was a PS4 exclusive. And I knew Dark Souls 3 would be on it, and it's my preferred platform anyway. So everything is great. But then, lets say hypothetically Bloodborne 2 is one of those rare PS4.5 games that you can't play on a vanilla PS4. Now suddenly my situation sucks. I need to either miss out on a game that I basically went with Sony for, plop down another 400 something dollars. or trade in my original console. All things I do not want to do. So yeah, I guess it really comes down to how hard they try to push exclusive features and games for it. If it's simply a performance upgrade for multiplats, and a home for VR games, that would be fine with me. (Although, I'd still worry how online would work, would PS4 and PS4.5 have cross-play? Would the different performance cause any problems?) In general I still don't like the concept of it though. The PS4 is selling great, I don't get the impression that the majority of PS4 users are concerned about it being under powered.

 

[camby]

Most developers will use the base ps4 as there lead system so don't be surprised if most problems happen on the neo. The neo could get the tinniest bump cause the developers won't care about the small install base.

 

[Audioboxer]

Those people that just bought a PS4 this year when there was no sign of this bullshit happening aren't going to feel that way.



The difference is in expectations. There's always an expectation that there wil lbe a PS5. Probably 5 or so years after the PS4 initially released. There's no such expectation for an incremental upgrade of the existing unit. In fact, Sony was pushing that messaging just last month. This is what they were saying

And Andrew House



So they were talking about this and putting messaging squarely in the field of "There's one PS4 and that's it" all the while apparently knowing that it was bullshit and in fact they were doing this.

Expectations start because trends begin. Trends begin because something is tried and catches on and the process repeats itself over time.

Point being things don't need to be static until the sun explodes and the earth ceases to exist. Sony may well be trying a new trend now. If it does catch on... then, well, there is how trends begin.

It could well be some people migrated to PCs BECAUSE they were annoyed that the console trend started adopting a 5+ year cycle. People are always unhappy somewhere, but if you please enough of the masses you'll probably roll with whatever did that best. If this works and gets adopted you can migrate somewhere else.. but where? Consoles are the only dinosaurs still on such a long schedule. PCs, phones and other tech devices go rapid. Consoles don't need to go as fast, and hopefully won't as there is benefit to having a static platform for a time, but it may well be for their futures they need to speed up a bit.

 

[CosmicQueso]

But then, lets say hypothetically Bloodborne 2 is one of those rare PS4.5 games that you can't play on a vanilla PS4...I guess it really comes down to how hard they try to push exclusive features and games for it.

Would be an issue, except it isn't an issue.

 

[jmdajr]

But if we start bringing in slightly better versions every 3 years then your consoles value diminishes a lot more quickly, and for people who have to save up and scrimp for a console, and then try and trade it in for the latest iteration, only getting pennies for your console because it's now been another 2 iterations since your version .... I can understand why people would be hesitant on the iterative model or whatever you want to call it.

I would have never bought bought a PS4 if I knew there would be a PS4.5 3 years later. Just not a good investment when it takes that amount of time to build a good library. At least not for me. But I figured PS4 was eventually going to get there right?
Oh well.

 

[MajinSweet4]

Would be an issue, except it isn't an issue.

That's not the point though, it's not even about my situation specifically. If they decide to make any exclusive games to show why they needed to make a PS4.5, some currently existing PS4 owners are going to feel burned.

 

[Audioboxer]

I would have never bought bought a PS4 if I knew there would be a PS4.5 3 years later. Just not a good investment when it takes that amount of time to build a good library. At least not for me. But I figured PS4 was eventually going to get there right?
Oh well.

Yes, unless you're reading some sort of leak that says PS4 library to stop growing in size, shift to Neo games only.

If you haven't read that then it's really self reflection time about how to suit your needs it's most likely best to adopt late if you require a bulky library before you can really "enjoy your investment". Neo doesn't impact on that at all, you've just bought something before it's right for your needs.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

I would have never bought bought a PS4 if I knew there would be a PS4.5 3 years later. Just not a good investment when it takes that amount of time to build a good library. At least not for me. But I figured PS4 was eventually going to get there right?
Oh well.

I'm with you on it man.

Thankfully I now have a better income than I did when the PS4 came out, so I can afford these things. But back then, if I had known this, I wouldn't of bought it day 1.

 

[Optimusdouche]

They are not happy it is happening so soon.

Eventually they would want new hardware and an upgraded model would be much easier to deal with, and a much bigger market to sell to.

But its good for us consumers, so I'm not too fussed about them not being happy. They despise the used games market. Doesn't mean they are right.

 

[CosmicQueso]

That's not the point though, it's not even about my situation specifically. If they decide to make any exclusive games to show why they needed to make a PS4.5, some currently existing PS4 owners are going to feel burned.

So we're just making up hypotheticals to get worked up about, even those known to be prohibited in the documentation that's out?

 

[Shari]

Most developers will use the base ps4 as there lead system so don't be surprised if most problems happen on the neo. The neo could get the tinniest bump cause the developers won't care about the small install base.

This has happened on PC for years.

Edit: I'm saying this because I see the link install base <-> support given, not as an "excuse"

But its good for us consumers, so I'm not too fussed about them not being happy. They despise the used games market. Doesn't mean they are right.

How is this good for consumers?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Expectations start because trends begin. Trends begin because something is tried and catches on and the process repeats itself over time.

Point being things don't need to be static until the sun explodes and the earth ceases to exist. Sony may well be trying a new trend now. If it does catch on... then, well, there is how trends begin.

It could well be some people migrated to PCs BECAUSE they were annoyed that the console trend started adopting a 5+ year cycle. People are always unhappy somewhere, but if you please enough of the masses you'll probably roll with whatever did that best. If this works and gets adopted you can migrate somewhere else.. but where? Consoles are the only dinosaurs still on such a long schedule. PCs, phones and other tech devices go rapid. Consoles don't need to go as fast, and hopefully won't as there is benefit to having a static platform for a time, but it may well be for their futures they need to speed up a bit.

Had Sony made it clear that such a thing was possible then maybe things would be reacting differently. Like I pointed out, just last month they were pushing the benefits of the PS4 being a closed platform where developing one version of a game means that everyone is going to get the same experience. And potentially hours after they were saying that we learned of the PS4.5. Meaning that within hours all of what they were saying became bullshit. No one seems to want to talk about that little fact. They were giving people no reason whatsoever to expect any incremental upgrades with the PS4.

 

[Jmille99]

As someone who knows nothing about development:

is developing for the differences between PS4 and PSNeo much different or more difficult than developing between different platforms such as Xbox One vs PS4 vs NX/Wii U?

Going off of what we currently know at least.

 

[MogCakes]

Just going to put out there that being a PC gamer doesn't exclude you from playing console games too. It just means consoles are no longer your primary platform amd your purchases for it will be much more limited. I don't think there are a lot of people who will switch back to being primarily console gamers just because of more frequent hardware refreshes.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

To be fair, I'm really excited to see how they announce this. The marketing spin they will need to create for this will be great to watch.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes and that's why the "it's just a one guy tweet, lol game jonralzzm" is nonsense. He's more connected to developers than anyone on here.

But is he saying that it's multiple devs?

 

[CosmicQueso]

As someone who knows nothing about development:

is developing for the differences between PS4 and PSNeo much different or more difficult than developing between different platforms such as Xbox One vs PS4 vs NX/Wii U?

Going off of what we currently know at least.

Far, far less difficult and expensive than developing on a completely separate platform.

But is he saying that it's multiple devs?

Not multiple, most. Not "most that person talked to" but a blanket most. That just doesn't seem possible to gauge, and with a position of authority and expertise, the tweet comes across as a bit unsubstantiated and conveniently in line with his personal viewpoint on the issue, which he communicated quite emotionally, on the episode. I understand his style and his position. He says what he wants to say, and he likes to show an independence of thought from Sony's positions. Gives him some additional credibility as not being a mouthpiece but his own thinker. Which is all great. In this particular case, however, the tweet needs some additional context so that the readers can more fully understand it.

 

[Audioboxer]

Had Sony made it clear that such a thing was possible then maybe things would be reacting differently. Like I pointed out, just last month they were pushing the benefits of the PS4 being a closed platform where developing one version of a game means that everyone is going to get the same experience. And potentially hours after they were saying that we learned of the PS4.5. Meaning that within hours all of what they were saying became bullshit. No one seems to want to talk about that little fact. They were giving people no reason whatsoever to expect any incremental upgrades with the PS4.

Just because we're privy to a leak doesn't mean a business doesn't carry on as normal. Cmon, no one tells you months before they go to launch something hold on wait, stop buying our current product for a while. So no, nothing has became bullshit because technically the PS4K does not exist till Sony announce it. I get what you're saying but I just find the whole "guys here's slides from a recent convention, look! Sony are lying!" shtick quite telling.

And anyway, most of the points made about the PS4 still exist. Still a closed platform, and experiences will still game wise be the same. No exclusive content.

 

[MajinSweet4]

So we're just making up hypotheticals to get worked up about, even those known to be prohibited in the documentation that's out?

I'm explaining why people are worried. I think it's to be expected and Sony has to know that they need to quell these fears. In fact, we have posts just a few minutes ago showing how Sony said that PS4 would always be one console with the same level of power. So I don't think it's fair to say that anyone worried about exclusive games has no basis. They are going to go with the stance now, but will they stick to it in a year or two? I don't think anyone can say for sure.

 

[NullPointer]

"More creative scope" seems to be a bizarre reason considering both versions will need to have the same features and options.

Yeah, that line makes no sense to me. I didn't know framerate and resolution was considered creative scope.

That creative scope is still bound to the PS4 base, not the NEO.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So we're just making up hypotheticals to get worked up about, even those known to be prohibited in the documentation that's out?

To be fair, I do understand some degree of concern. Plans change. If this thing takes off or they feel a need to give it a push, I could understand exceptions being made. Where I differ from those concerned is that I see little reason to get worked up about the prospect now. It's just a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" situation. Personally, I don't think it's very likely. I think the 3DS vs. N3DS is a situation where you see a small selection of stuff exclusively made for or targeted primarily at the latter simply because of how underpowered the 3DS is. It's easy to see why a developer might need the power of the N3DS vs. it just being nice to optionally have.

But I think we're a ways off before the install base for the PS4.5 takes off such that developers would find that they don't really need to work around whatever technical hurdles they're encountering on the PS4 and can just focus on optimizing for the upgraded hardware. To put it succinctly, I agree with you that this isn't a very realistic concern.

 

[mcarlie]

Yeah, that line makes no sense to me. I didn't know framerate and resolution was considered creative scope.

That creative scope is still bound to the PS4 base, not the NEO.

Creativity in the visuals?

 

[Audioboxer]

To be fair, I do understand some degree of concern. Plans change. If this thing takes off or they feel a need to give it a push, I could understand exceptions being made. Where I differ from those concerned is that I see little reason to get worked up about the prospect now. It's just a "we'll cross that bridge when we get there" situation. Personally, I don't think it's very likely. I think the 3DS vs. N3DS is a situation where you see a small selection of stuff exclusively made for or targeted primarily at the latter simply because of how underpowered the 3DS is. It's easy to see why a developer might need the power of the N3DS vs. it just being nice to optionally have.

But I think we're a ways off before the install base for the PS4.5 takes off such that developers would find that they don't really need to work around whatever technical hurdles they're encountering on the PS4 and can just focus on optimizing for the upgraded hardware. To put it succinctly, I agree with you that this isn't a very realistic concern.

Almost without a doubt exclusive VR content is going to be about at some point. That I can easily see.

 

[mckmas8808]

It is. Sony requires a neo mode for any game releasing october onwards. The only stupilation is that it can't run worse than the regular ps4 version. So, yeah, Sony's not going to force devs to make upgrades, but it'll still have to be on par and devs will still have to have a "neo mode" functional to pass certification for that aspect in order to keep on releasing games.

Wouldn't this be easier to do than making a Xbox One version?

 

[CosmicQueso]

I'm explaining why people are worried. I think it's to be expected and Sony has to know that they need to quell these fears. In fact, we have posts just a few minutes ago showing how Sony said that PS4 would always be one console with the same level of power. So I don't think it's fair to say that anyone worried about exclusive games has no basis. They are going to go with the stance now, but will they stick to it in a year or two? I don't think anyone can say for sure.

Ahh, okay. I understand you better now. It's the question of trusting the documentation and sources given the context of some past statements.

That makes much more sense.

Yes, if this means that your trust level has been damaged, then absolutely, those kinds of concerns are understandable.

Sorry, didn't understand where you were really going with your point.

But I think we're a ways off before the install base for the PS4.5 takes off such that developers would find that they don't really need to work around whatever technical hurdles they're encountering on the PS4 and can just focus on optimizing for the upgraded hardware. To put it succinctly, I agree with you that this isn't a very realistic concern.

Yep, that particular issue isn't a realistic concern. However, seems like the trust issue certainly could be (is already?) a significant one.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Almost without a doubt exclusive VR content is going to be about at some point. That I can easily see.

Quite possibly. But we're really getting into niche territory here.

 

[jmdajr]

Yes, unless you're reading some sort of leak that says PS4 library to stop growing in size, shift to Neo games only.

If you haven't read that then it's really self reflection time about how to suit your needs it's most likely best to adopt late if you require a bulky library before you can really "enjoy your investment". Neo doesn't impact on that at all, you've just bought something before it's right for your needs.

I feel screwed is what I feel, and it will affect all my decisions going forward. I'm not going to say I'm literally mad.

More so. "Oh we're playing this game now?"

It's too bad I have version one of both Xbox One AND PS4. I should have just bought 1 of them really. But hey..I DIDN'T KNOW.

 

[Jmille99]

Far, far less difficult and expensive than developing on a completely separate platform.

I figured as much. Just trying to gauge why this is somehow more frustrating than developing:

-different current gen consoles
-possible last gen consoles
-possible handheld versions (Vita specifically)
-PCs and their different configurations
-possible Phone/Tablet versions

But since I am development dumb, I thought maybe there was something I was missing. Inconvenient, probably. But somehow this blown out of proportion, not so much.

 

[Audioboxer]

Quite possibly. But we're really getting into niche territory here.

Yes, but I just think that is one concern to prepare for, as I fully think this iterative move is to prop up VR. Without a doubt some devs must already be airing concerns that what they're working on in Vive/Occulus is going to be a challenge to get up and running on PSVR.

Sony do not want to become a Nintendo like 1st party proper-up of VR. They need 3rd party. At least until PS5 comes around. Devs abandoning PSVR now/shortly will only cause headaches trying to get them all back on board when PS5 launches. If they can't sustain a decent active sized install base we all know how 3rd parties treat you (Hi Wii U).

I feel screwed is what I feel, and it will affect all my decisions going forward. I'm not going to say I'm literally mad.

More so. "Oh we're playing this game now?"

It's too bad I have version one of both Xbox One AND PS4. I should have just bought 1 of them really. But hey..I DIDN'T KNOW.

Hey I'm not saying you shouldn't feel how you genuinely are, but I think you already know you probably were best to only buy one of the consoles lol.

 

[jmdajr]

Hey I'm not saying you shouldn't feel how you genuinely are, but I think you already know you probably were best to only buy one of the consoles lol.

At least I bought Xbox One at 299.

 

[Audioboxer]

At least I bought Xbox One at 299.

Well yeah, you could have bought it at $499 with Kinect (unless Kinect is your kind of thing). That's technology though, you jump in early someone a year later gets what you have cheaper. Or maybe they get what you have with some added bells and whistles (larger hard drive, controller AUX/stereo input & better triggers).

 

[SolidSnakex]

Just because we're privy to a leak doesn't mean a business doesn't carry on as normal. Cmon, no one tells you months before they go to launch something hold on wait, stop buying our current product for a while. So no, nothing has became bullshit because technically the PS4K does not exist till Sony announce it. I get what you're saying but I just find the whole "guys here's slides from a recent convention, look! Sony are lying!" shtick quite telling.

Sony didn't have to come out and show those slides, nor did House have to talk about the benefits of the PS4 being a closed platform. Doing so simply highlighted why people like console gaming. And it also showed them taking a position against moving toward a more PC setup that some have said they were doing.

And anyway, most of the points made about the PS4 still exist. Still a closed platform, and experiences will still game wise be the same. No exclusive content.

That's just not the case. The entire point of the PS4K is that there will now be two versions of PS4 games. There are are going to be two modes (base and Neo), and we know games running on Neo are going to be capable of looking and running much better. So the experience isn't going to be the same.

 

[Audioboxer]

Sony didn't have to come out and show those slides, nor did House have to talk about the benefits of the PS4 being a closed platform. Doing so simply highlighted why people like console gaming. And it also showed them taking a position against moving toward a more PC setup that some have said they were doing.



That's just not the case. The entire point of the PS4K is that there will now be two versions of PS4 games. There are are going to be two modes (base and Neo), and we know games running on Neo are going to be capable of looking and running much better. So the experience isn't going to be the same.

They were at developer conventions where... they have to talk about what is good development wise with PS4. I mean cmon, business carries on as usual, regardless of what R&D are working on in private. The public are always sniffing around presentations trying to dig up clues and wording as to what the future holds as well. You give people a word, they create an article with a headline proclaiming to know what is coming next.

As for your second point does that stop people buying and enjoying Xbox Ones? They have the same games as PS4 owners, but they run worse. Point being it's not abnormal for someone somewhere to be playing something at a better framerate or prettier than you. If that is such a point of obsession for you, it should be high on your priority list to always save for the best platform to play on, and/or to go to the PC market where you can spend big $$$ and brag about your setup.

 

[Occam]

Most consumers probably won't be happy with it, either.

 

[jmdajr]

Well yeah, you could have bought it at $499 with Kinect (unless Kinect is your kind of thing). That's technology though, you jump in early someone a year later gets what you have cheaper. Or maybe they get what you have with some added bells and whistles (larger hard drive, controller AUX/stereo input & better triggers).

Still using my original PS3 in my second bedroom for PlaystationVue!

 

[The God]

Almost without a doubt exclusive VR content is going to be about at some point. That I can easily see.

and then the same happens to regular PS4 games. Fantastic.

 

[Xander Crews]

But I think we're a ways off before the install base for the PS4.5 takes off such that developers would find that they don't really need to work around whatever technical hurdles they're encountering on the PS4 and can just focus on optimizing for the upgraded hardware. To put it succinctly, I agree with you that this isn't a very realistic concern.

That's a good point because there are 30+ million PS4s and 0 PS4ks out there right now, and I would think it will take quite a while for the 4k install base to exceed the OG base, if it ever does.

There will always be millions of people with PS4s to sell games to and those games will need to be optimized and work properly or people won't buy them. That's a big enough incentive for developers.