Might be a case of the vocal minority having the loudest voice.
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
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CosmicQueso
Member
People comparing the reaction from the public on the Neo to the reaction following the DRM E3 are really stretching.
That response was close to unanimous across retailers, gamers and the media.
This is a much more mixed response.
Have to agree. Console gaming is the one area where upgrade like this don't happen.
Just wondering when console gamers went from always wanting better tech to now only wanting it on some arbitrary schedule?
How many times in late 2013 early 2014 did we have people talking about how much better the tech was in one console or the other? Now we want tech to remain static? Or only happen every 8 years?
That response was close to unanimous across retailers, gamers and the media.
This is a much more mixed response.
Have to agree. Console gaming is the one area where upgrade like this don't happen.
Just wondering when console gamers went from always wanting better tech to now only wanting it on some arbitrary schedule?
How many times in late 2013 early 2014 did we have people talking about how much better the tech was in one console or the other? Now we want tech to remain static? Or only happen every 8 years?
SolidSnakeUS
Member
SolidSnakex
Member
Why? Why does this model, which is quite frankly unbelievably shitty, need to infect console gaming? Gamers quite rightfully pushed back against DRM becoming commonplace in this space, so i'm happy that there's a large pushback against this as well.
If the power gap is one that's going to allow the PS4.5 to run games at 60fps with higher quality assets, then that's already much different from what we see with the PS4 and Xbox One. I think TR
E is the only one where there's that type of framerate difference between consoles.For me personally, rather than iterative releases, I'd much prefer a next gen hardware release every 5-6 years. There will always be some cross over period, so the older console will likely see a life span of at least 7 years, even if the new hardware is released after 6. I personally think that'd be a sufficient amount of time for a full hardware/generational cycle, and actually feel the last gen (PS3/360) went on far too long.
On a side note, does anyone know if Sony gets higher royalties for UHD Blu-ray disks and drives? Presumably all their new TV's will be pushing UHD/4K in a big way as well.
I hope you don't use a cellphone, car, TV, or any other consumer device that follows this model. As for large pushback? GAF is not a representation of the average consumer who this will be marketed towards.
1) The power gap isn't enough to allow a 30fps game to turn into 60fps with higher assets. It'll be one or the other. Even then, folks are saying framerate is CPU limited which didn't get upgraded enough to allow 30fps games to run at 60fps apparently.If the power gap is one that's going to allow the PS4.5 to run games at 60fps with higher quality assets, then that's already much different from what we see with the PS4 and Xbox One. I think TR
2) I don't know why people get hung up on the power gap issue when the xbox one is mentioned. Developing/porting between ps4neo and ps4 is a much easier process than developing a version for ps4 and xbox. If the xbox one is getting good ports/versions despite it being a harder process, and despite it having a lower marketshare, why would the ps4 version all of a sudden suffer? Especially if it has the largest marketshare?
WoolyNinja
Member
But for 90% of the games, if not more, they're already creating the better assets, etc for the PC ultra settings. So there really shouldn't be any extra costs or time.
You are right. If they come out with a new model and a month later you hear about a newer one that is out of hand. But we are talking about 3 years here not 1 or 2 or a month. Just don't buy it and play games on your PS4. Why is this so Hard? I can't believe so many gamers don't want an option to buy a system to play games better especially when both systems get all the same games! Win win.
It was just as split IIRC. There were people shouting from the hills that MS's plan was the wave of the future and that people were just hanging onto nostalgia about discs and used games. "You'll buy it and you'll like it, Sony's doing it too!" There are some parallels here. It wasn't until the full details of the XB1 came out with its reveal that people then collectively said 'no'.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Exactly, it's just like a hidden graphics settings menu which is already there in all games in debugging mode.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Exactly. Sony is not forcing you to upgrade, especially since all features of the game will be the same in both versions, just graphical upgrades.
Colin Moriarty needs to get a grip on himself and stop acting like being a consumer somehow brings some special privileges about what you buy.
These guys man, seriously.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
"Don't tread on me."
Why? Why does this model, which is quite frankly unbelievably shitty, need to infect console gaming? Gamers quite rightfully pushed back against DRM becoming commonplace in this space, so i'm happy that there's a large pushback against this as well.
If the power gap is one that's going to allow the PS4.5 to run games at 60fps with higher quality assets, then that's already much different from what we see with the PS4 and Xbox One. I think TR
To be fair, you feeling it is shitty doesn't make it shitty. It may very well be mismanaged and end up shitty. Time will tell. But for now we can only hope that common sense and governance over what is acceptable and what is not during game inception through the validation process is done with care.
There is no reason not to trust Sony or Microsoft at this point if this is how and when the paradigm shift happens. We may actually be surprised and thankful in the end. And it may the industry even more competitive.
I completely agree. Even based on the amount of internet backlash, this much is evident. You have to have your head buried in the sand to not see that clearly many people are not happy about this, and like myself, much prefer the idea of full generation cycles (albeit shorter than they were last gen), instead of mid way iterations that semi split up the user base, and will likely prolong the generation unnecessarily.
I do not think the proper solution to an underpowered PS4, is to release an iterative upgrade mid cycle, that is still tied down to the PS4 and thus forever held back, and indirectly offering less value proposition. Instead I think a better solution is simply to shorten the generational cycle, and release the next major console after say, 5-6 years, instead of 8.
SolidSnakex
Member
It's a shitty model no matter where it is. It is (was?) nice that console gaming avoided it.
I've been looking around on other forums and comment sections since this became rumored and the general view mirrors that of what you're seeing here. Yes, some are obviously excited about getting more powerful hardware, but the general opinion is in the pissed off lane.
The power gap matters if developers are focusing on pushing the 4.5 and the standard version becomes more of an afterthought. We saw OsirisBlack say that games like Gran Turismo Sport and God of War 4 are intended to be showpieces for the hardware, and the difference between the 4 and 4.5 versions are said to be significant.
dragonfart28
Banned
As someone who doesn't currently own a PS4, I'm not sure how to even feel about this upgrade. I think I side with Greg on this, because there is a lot of confusion about the expectation.
I want to be excited because of the additional power, but if it is going to be tempered because of some arbitrary policy to cater to existing PS4 owners, then that greatly reduces the value proposition.
This feels a bit like the Wii U marketing problem, and the only way to resolve the confusion is if Sony can communicate the whole point of this thing in a way that satisfies the existing userbase and new owners.
I want to be excited because of the additional power, but if it is going to be tempered because of some arbitrary policy to cater to existing PS4 owners, then that greatly reduces the value proposition.
This feels a bit like the Wii U marketing problem, and the only way to resolve the confusion is if Sony can communicate the whole point of this thing in a way that satisfies the existing userbase and new owners.
The differences between many multiplats on pc and ps4 are significant as well, but still the ps4 versions of those games are optimized for the system. Again, why would the market leading console be an afterthought? First parties are going to push both consoles as much as they can and it's only natural that a more powerful system will have a much better running game than a weaker system if both are pushed to their limits. That doesn't mean the weaker system is getting gimped. It's in Sony's and the developers' best interest to release a solid ps4 version of their games.
Ehhhh. I'm not gonna hold my breath for them.
I feel like a lot of GAF doesn't read anything but GAF.
You can still follow that model if you prefer.
Unbelievably shitty? For goodness sake the hyperbole in this thread is off the charts. The concerns amount to nothing but dick envy - I had the biggest and now I dont.
All of the other concerns, ps4 games quality suffering, devs upset, console cycles costing people too much are so laughably inaccurate that it is making the people who make them look foolish.
But hey, let's rage against the dying of the light just because we can...
1. Whether you think it is shitty or not, doesn't make it so.
2. Once again, your hardcore enthusiast on the internet does not signify a large portion of the actual consumers who buy these products. People forget that we are not the majority, we are just a very vocal minority.
I am absolutely confident the PS4K extends the length of this generation, and we don't see the PS5 in year 5 or 6 of the current cycle. If Sony dared having a shorter generational cycle after releasing the PS4K, they'd only piss even more consumers off. Either way I think it's a poor strategy.
Honestly, I'm irritated at the idea that the PS4K might end up drawing this generation out longer, whilst still being held back by the PS4 the entire time.
Folks with negative views are generally more vocal. The general ps4 userbase is largely going to be indifferent to this new development as long as they get to play all the games (and no neo exclusives get made). A small but vocal segment of the population are angry/pissed off, and a smaller segment than that is really excited. There may be a segments in there that views this positively or negatively but just don't want to get involved in the discussion and are waiting for official details.
The potential buyer market on the other hand is a mix of indifferent and excited people, with maybe new people interested due to the system having a uhd player (not in the devkit, but sony would be stupid not to have it in the retail system).
More likely they'll just be buying the OG if they're looking for a dedicated gaming console, unless the 4K is the cheapest UHD blu-ray player on the market which they're also interested in. They may be more tempted to buy the 4K if Sony doesn't lower the price of the OG model, but that would be hilariously stupid on Sony's part.
I haven't been following too closely but it seems to be comparisons about the gaming community's behavior surrounding rumors of a potentially landscape-changing event - in 2013 it was used games and discs and the XB1, now it's the PS4 Neo.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
NoctisVsStar
Member
A wild gopher D appears! Agreed man but this doom and gloom is a bit wild.
GHG
Member
ninjablade
Banned
I expected the ps5 to be out in 3 or 4 years after ps4k, not a big deal and at most it delayed it by 1 year, just be happy you can play games, that look and run better now for a small 150$ more if you want to.
The cheaper model will of course do better, but there will still be appeal in the newer model, and people that are only interested in games just may shell out the extra $100-150 when they hear it's more than 2 times as powerful, and it has a different/attractive/smaller design.
FootballFan
Member
If the 4K costs $150 there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints. $150 every 3 years is what, $300 for a generation? It's actually cheaper than the OG models!
Where did you get that number?
More than 2 times? Does that translate to more than 2x better looking graphics? I really doubt it will. That's pure marketing speak.
SolidSnakex
Member
Those same hardcore enthusiasts are the reason why DRM wasn't allowed to creep into the console model. So let's not be so dismissive of their views because people sure as hell wanted them when they wanted to stamp that out quickly.
The comparison is in people viewing them as bad models for console gaming going forward. DRM is obviously far worse, but the reaction is comparable in the sense that people are quite vocal in not wanting either to happen.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
It is pure marketing speak (even though technically true when talking about TFlops), and will probably be something retail store employees use to describe the system in simple terms if someone asks. It doesn't matter if it translates to 2x better looking graphics or not.
Glorified G
Member
I'm not seeing a twitter campaign or or a hundred plus page thread on GAF specifically against the release of this thing.
The reaction is not even remotely comparable to the DRM fiasco.
That would still make this generation 7-8 years long depending on when the PS4K actually releases (this year or next), and that is still too long to be tied down to the underpowered PS4 imo, which the PS4K still will be. Realistically I think the PS4K will have added at least 2 years to the generational cycle.
On a side note, I doubt it'll only cost $150 for existing PS4 owners to upgrade to the PS4K. Factoring in price drops by the time the PS4K releases, on top of resale or trade in depreciation, I reckon most people are looking at spending at least $200 extra, unless of course they get in really early.
AmuroChan
Member
And it's certainly easier than making a PS3 sku, which many devs were doing during the console transition and some are still doing it today.
alice_kiss_lara
Banned
P$4K will be dead as good as PSPgo
I agree. Not even close to the same rage, for obvious reasons.
The twitter campaign formed up after the official XB1 reveal, IIRC. The PS4 Neo has yet to be officially unveiled. The lead up conversations in the gaming community were not unlike now, a very mixed bag wherein the specifics were still within the realm of uncertainty to a degree. The comments from the DRM supporters were also not unlike those from some people now: "tech moves on, get over it, stop living in the past", "this is the future, get used to it", "Sony's doing it too. You'll cave in and buy it".
Note that I'm only talking about the community's arguments among themselves, not the actual plans of MS vs the PS4 Neo. I don't think anyone has made any comparisons between the PS4K and the XB1 DRM specifically - they are talking about the online discussions in the lead up to them.
An ugly reality, but you have a point.
Are you arguing against it then because the only group that is going to be excited to go out and get this for the upgrade ARE the hardcore forum goers. Just because the average joe consumer is willing to spend their tax refund to upgrade their iphone every year that they use every minute of the day does not in any way shape or form mean they are going to rush to spend $400 - $500 on a console for more FPS they can't even notice anyways. They are going to wonder why their machine is being called inferior after just a couple years though and think twice when buying another console. Sony tried doing the high end, over priced consumer product thing already. It ended poorly for them. The niche high end graphics card upgrader crowd is not a great business model to chase after for Sony. It's like the antithesis of the larger casual console demographic.
As far as the concern goes I think alot of people are missing the point. Yes the initial reaction for console gamers who put down hard money for a PS4 is "gee, thanks for the screwjob and making me feel inferior or a Xbox Live Silver member for supporting you early". The next fear is the eventual double speak of "Don't worry, no PS4k exclusives" Then 6 months to a year later when they realize thats not an effective model for selling your shiny new upgraded console 'Here are some PS4k exclusive games to get you to upgrade. Don't worry though, we aren't taking anything away from you original PS4 owners, we are just enhancing the PS4K experience" Then comes the bigger picture of this model. The fact that console gaming on a whole is on shaky ground, the fact these companies really would prefer to go to a games on demand model, the bad aftertaste this will leave in consumers mouths and the gun shy nature of them approaching the eventual PS5. Why am I going to pay $500 for this when I know the enhanced model will be out in a couple years with better games. And then the console numbers come crashing down.
Abinash117
Member
I think the tablet market, people hold on to their tablets for a longer period of time. But yeah people really need to stop comparing the different markets as if they are similar. The different tech have entirely different uses and different attitudes shape with them. No one really knows how the console market will react to the new upgrades if they happen and the thing is this is relatively a new thing for most console gamers in the traditional console market.
CosmicQueso
Member
Maybe my memory is faulty then.
One difference that is real this time is GameStop was so against the DRM issue it was a huge driver in getting that situation reversed. This time? Probably a lot different. A whole lot different.
ninjablade
Banned
Dude nx has been announced and wiiu is a dead console and still selling for 240$ used on ebay, I sell used things for a living and consoles have really high resale value, you will easily fetch 250$ for your ps4 on Craigslist any time this year before the holidays.