Audioboxer
Member
That's a real jaded way to look at gaming... Instead of you know, just enjoying games on the budget you can afford.
Colin Moriarty of Kinda Funny: source says "most developers are not happy with PS4.5"
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
That's a real jaded way to look at gaming... Instead of you know, just enjoying games on the budget you can afford.
gundamkyoukai
Member
You don't know how many Neo consoles would be sold by then .
Lets say Sony bring out PS5 in 2019 that would be 4 years that neo on the market .
You seem to think people can't be happy owning old tech .
Some people will still buy neo because it will be in there price range by then .
Mr. Giggles
Member
Well said.
As more rumours have come around to it co-existing with the base model and I've had some time to reflect
and also ice cream
Also with feedback from actual devs that this shouldn't impact performance on the base model, I'm slowly warming up to the Neo.....slowly
So just upgrade to the next model up when support for your current one is dropped. There are many doing that already. Ps4 is up selling better so far this year because of dropped cross-gen support.
gundamkyoukai
Member
The problem is what you talking about happens all now.
When next gen start we still get 2 years of cross gen games.
And with games getting more and more expensive it might be even longer next gen .
Not to mention it getting harder and harder to make bigger jumps hardware wise .
I sure when PS5 comes out some will make only PS5 game for eg Sony .
After a while people are still going to get the best out of the hardware but it will be the base model .
Sniffynose
Member
What happens if due to cost reductions the PS4k simply replaces the PS4 sku? Riddle me that!?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Don't forget a much better PSVR experience, I'm guessing that is what is driving this path.
CosmicQueso
Member
I don't know. What would happen?
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Have we gotten confirmation on this yet? How much better? I've seen nothing.
Jacksinthe
Banned
I'm speaking of the hyperbole of his tweet when I said that.
The devs I yap with wouldn't mind if the PS4k existed. None of us know more than you guys so there's that. We just wouldn't really care.
We discuss like everyone else and if the similarities in hardware + multiplatform engines are up to task, 90% of devs wouldn't bat an eye.
I don't know his "source" and I don't know every dev but I know enough to form a vertical slice and can speak for myself.
For all I know he could be referring to the Bioware article or maybe his source did mention a dev being disappointed and through the magic of hyperbole it's "most devs".
We know what you know and that's not much. We yap for fun like everyone else. Especially since I'm a nobody dev I love speculating like - I can def add more pixel splosions with more power
I'm sure some devs will be displeased and more than likely it will be the devs feeling the need to take advantage of the hardware fully. For the rest of us, it's just another SKU - if it exists.
I don't know. I just see a tweet say "most" devs and I bust out laughing.
Edit: for the record, I don't know if it exists and neither do the devs I talk to. If it's real - it's a very small sample size. I'm personally just interested in iterative consoles with full BC here on out.
Edit2: Clarified in another tweet so people don't go overboard.
gundamkyoukai
Member
PS4k should replace the base model after a few years .
PS5 will be out and that will be the new expensive model .
Mr. Giggles
Member
wapplew
Member
We got 60m next gen hardware in 2 years, yet many dev still haven't drop last gen support.
Imagine if PS4K and PS5 sold lower than that (for many reasons like lack of exclusive, or people less willing to day one because of PS4K) we'll stuck in cross gen phase even longer.
I sure hope so, console is my first party machine anyway.
I accept dev use low end machine as baseline on other gaming device, but console is the only gaming device left that give me first party hardware pushing titles, I don't want to lose that.
If they force forward compatible on PS4.5 including first party, it might be the end of my console gaming.
NullPointer
Member
I'd just like to think of the NEO as what the optimists claim it is: an optional device that adds bells and whistles to already solid games, and not as an expensive fix for PS4 games with low performance standards. Because once the NEO is the only place to expect that baseline of performance, the door is open to let more and more slip on the PS4 versions.
Hell, the thing has only just been revealed and the conversation here has entirely shifted to NEO versions of all the games still to come, casting the PS4 versions as the ones saddled with all the technical sacrifices. That change in perspective brought about by splitting the hardware focus, the requirement for devs to support NEO versions day one, the presumption that companies will push NEO footage over PS4 when marketing and demonstrating their games, and look to use NEO-mode enhancements as new bullet-points and article-bait will all provide pressures to set NEO as the new baseline.
The pressure that should be put towards publishers and devs to find that sweet spot and release a polished game will instead shift to the customers, and at a $400 premium. That's why people will feel a *need* to buy in. That's my apprehension.
If the details about the NEO are true I expect it to sell well enough, but I also expect PS4 titles to suffer as a result, even with their much larger install base.
But just to be sure, I do expect something like this model to work, its a matter of how its handled. At this moment I'd prefer somewhat shorter generations than just plopping this thing out there in a generation that has felt so slow to start as it is.
Papacheeks
Banned
I do know, that at a higher price you wont be selling anything near what PS4 did in it's first 2 years where it had hype.
There is no hype even when this is announced. PS4 did so well in 2013-2014 because of all the stigma and press from MS's blunder at E3 coupled with very strong marketing.
Now that PS4 has been on sale for 350 for a decent while, having another reiteration for 399-450 wont sell gang busters like OG PS4 did when it was released. This would have to sell like gang busters for at least close to 3 years to get to where og PS4 currently is.
I'll avatar bet you right now on it.
DannyDanger
Member
So what if it does happen?
You'd still have 40mil plus ps4 base users...
They're still gonna make their games work on those systems
gundamkyoukai
Member
A lot of companies are not going to push neo footage since PC footage would be better anyway .
Which is what the do all now .
Papacheeks
Banned
I migrate to PC
Same,and since I'v gotten out of most competative games, I gravitate towards the single player stuff that Sony usually has in droves.
And since I wont ever get games like uncharted, santa monica's game, sucker punch, bloodborne, nier on my PC.
I will probably sell all my console stuff minus my prized PS1 collection and buy a new motorcycle as console gaming as I know it will be pretty much dead. Unless Nintendo see's this as a opportunity and doesn't go through with iterative console and is the only place where regular console gen will be.
Omnistalgic
Member
Man Prince is dead...
So sad
Jah bless u brother.
So sad
Jah bless u brother.
Sniffynose
Member
I can't help but feel like with PSVR especially this is going to be pretty much mandatory, I guess we don't know until it happens (if/when) =/
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm speaking of the hyperbole of his tweet when I said that.
The devs I yap with wouldn't mind if the PS4k existed. None of us know more than you guys so there's that. We just wouldn't really care.
We discuss like everyone else and if the similarities in hardware + multiplatform engines are up to task, 90% of devs wouldn't bat an eye.
I don't know his "source" and I don't know every dev but I know enough to form a vertical slice and can speak for myself.
For all I know he could be referring to the Bioware article or maybe his source did mention a dev being disappointed and through the magic of hyperbole it's "most devs".
We know what you know and that's not much. We yap for fun like everyone else. Especially since I'm a nobody dev I love speculating like - I can def add more pixel splosions with more power
I'm sure some devs will be displeased and more than likely it will be the devs feeling the need to take advantage of the hardware fully. For the rest of us, it's just another SKU - if it exists.
I don't know. I just see a tweet say "most" devs and I bust out laughing.
Edit: for the record, I don't know if it exists and neither do the devs I talk to. If it's real - it's a very small sample size. I'm personally just interested in iterative consoles with full BC here on out.
Edit2: Clarified in another tweet so people don't go overboard.
This. And thanks for sharing.
DannyDanger
Member
I get not wanting that to happen, but i also get the fact that no company (or atleast that i know of) has ever straight up abandoned a massive install base... We as consumers have the fear of the console being neglected, but sony also has the fear of losing revenue from a potential 40 mil users.... I'd imagine they'd do anything in their power to avoid that. Ppl are ignoring the business side of thiings.. It would not be in any parties best interest to neglect the base PS4, plain and simple.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Sure. I just see someone taking up a flag for developers without actually doing the legwork to see what they think and I cringe. I'm a nobody and he's a somebody. He definitely has access to developers I don't.
There's one very important point you're forgetting here. All playstation games will (more than likely) be forward compatible from this point forward. Sony have realized that, while PSNow is an "almost good enough" effort it's simply not "good enough" to cover all customer requirements and they've thus moved to a an even more ubiquitous playstation approach to cover all their bases.
Your phone, your PC, your console - they're all just portals into the world of playstation at varying levels of fidelity. The only possible limit is your platform of choice's inability to handle the lowest fidelity requirements for a specific application. And even then there's still PSNow if you really "must have it"
Which is exactly what every dev, and every consumer, should logically be looking for and what, for all intents and purposes, the PS4 Neo is heavily rumored to be providing
Holy shit. Return of "Sony only sold well because of the hype of MS's blunder"! I thought we moved past that a few years ago. This is really sad.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Man I hope! I just want my catalog to carry to not just the Neo but the 5 and 6 and so on.
thelastword
Banned
Very good points, and it's line with many level headed responses we've got so far, just very well articulated.
Exactly, it's not like the PS4 has been free from some really awful performing software. Especially games which are not that taxing, like remasters and even some indies in recent times, notwithstanding AAA games. I don't think we can shift the blame to NEO for this ahead of it's release. This is pretty much stating that all PS4 releases have been gems.
He said the "majority", I wonder if that's 70% 80% or 90%, if it's so high, I imagine First party devs are opposed too
, but yes I don't think we'll get any quantification from Colin anytime soon.The elite bundle is priced at $500.00, the console as a whole is underpowered as opposed to the competition, the controller standalone is expensive, I know for one that I will never buy a controller for that price, ever. The value proposition is just not there, the regular controller plays all games just fine.
On the flip the OG PS4 is more powerful, has a great controller, better multiplats and arguably better exclusives and it's priced at $350-400. So if you present that to potential buyers, it's clear what they would choose.
Now, here you have a PS4K, with a significant beefed up GPU, clocked up CPU and memory and tonnes of other plusses mentioned, it's still priced at $400.00 where the current PS4 is selling in droves, I think that's a pretty significant price-value proposition that will do much better in the market.
WOOOOOOOH!! testy, no need to blow a gasket, it was a genuine question, not asked in any malicious way or to name call you. I actually agreed with the poster you quoted, but the way you wrote the post had me thinking you were being sarcastic. I even lol'd (which I rarely do) to show it wasn't an attack.
No need to go guns blazing on my post either, this whole thread is full of conjecture, gatdamn, isn't that what this whole thread is about....sheesh.....
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well yeah, he has his bias behind his Tweet. That much is obvious the way it is framed.
Thus why we are calling him out to provide at least some numbers, instead of blanketed statements that can be perceived as hyperbole. He is intelligent, he knows what he is doing.
And this is precisely the main reason Sony, MSFT, as well as Nintendo are doing this. That one ecosystem for developers and gamers while remaining relevant in advancing graphics techniques.
Agreed.
No, simply because Sony will not (and should not) allow for experiences that would only be possible on PS4K.
PSVR is 1080p60 (up to 90) by mandate, so we may expect a few spruced up graphics possibly, maybe some titles using native 90fps instead of 60/120 reprojection, but it would be disingenuous to make people expect "much better PSVR experiences" until proven otherwise imo.
PS4K is driven by 2 things imo, both important to Sony:
1) Keeping a "relative" console powerhouse position for the general discussion and mindshare, as hardware gets updated more rapidly (and AMD coming up with affordable options), while keeping an affordable option with the same games (PS4)
2) Pushing 4K, which benefits them as a whole as a Consumer Electronics company (TV, camcorders, etc)
I kinda wish, maybe wish is too strong a word, hope? Na... something milder. We need a PS4 - Neo tech thread like the PS4/Durango(Xbox One) thread. Those were good times with level headed speculation and the thread was like its own information filter so that only the meaty bits came through
Otherwise I keep hitting up any thread with PS4.5 or PS4K or Neo in it only to find wild completely illogical conjecture and panic
Otherwise I keep hitting up any thread with PS4.5 or PS4K or Neo in it only to find wild completely illogical conjecture and panic
thelastword
Banned
Don't forget this has not been officially announced yet, there's no way you will get confirmation of VR games running better on NEO, but it's not out of the ordinary to assume that better hardware delivers better looking games at better framerates.....
David Ricardo
Member
I don't believeyou.gif
This is for VR. I expect to see PS4 like experiences in PS4neo vr, while PS4VR are somewhat halfway graphically between ps3 and ps4.
What's so hard to understand about it? I'd much rather shorter generational cycles with more substantial jumps in gaming and performance, as opposed to mid way increments that lengthen the generation but never provide a true jump in tech and design because they're still held back by the older consoles.
Also, the user base is split with the release of the Neo, not in the traditional sense of an entirely new generation, but split between gamers who either have worse performance, visuals etc, despite being part of the same platform, or those that have all those things better, which is something mostly new to console gaming.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
75 million + Sold consoles this generation, 3 years in is not a small niche by any stretch of the imagination.
And only people who are arguing against the Neo are bringing up phones. We are not going to see a new console every year or even 2 years. Thats paranoia.
We will however have mid gen refreshes of hardware every 3 or so years.
Papacheeks
Banned
So you don't think after launch people who were xbox players didn't come over and buy PS4'S? I also iterated that price point, great marketing also was how they powered through 2013-2014 and on. They marketed games like Destiny very well and made bundles that appealed to people hype for a Bungie game.
Go re-read my previous posts dude. If that's all you can say in the comments I'v added then I don't know what else there is to talk about.
Here's what I said just a page back read carefully now, you might miss it, wouldn't want you to overreact......again:
There's so much crazy going on:
1. It's to my understanding that this would have the overhead to allow devs to just push out their same game designed to old specs and run it at 1080/60 with better PQ. If they want to take advantage of the new bells and whistles so be it.
2. As a consumer, it gives you another option. You can still play most of those games on your existing PS4. If you want a better experience then you pay to play, but you don't need to, you just want to. Welcome to everything else in life, including PC gaming.
This is a great solution I think personally. Last gen dragged on way too long looking long in the tooth. This gen launched without true cutting edge hardware that dated itself super fast. So this is the fix. And a welcome fix at that. 4K TVs/monitors are being adopted quickly, and that's without a lot of content for it. Sony has a TV brand to sell, they also have movie studios, and they would like to maintain a competitive edge. It needs to happen for us, and for Sony (and MS likely as well).
Next gen with PCI-E extenders I expect the machines to be basically PCs, with new GPU, RAM, and possibly CPU module add ons. This is not new to devs with PC experience, they'll be fine, just something else for them to bitch about despite many of them already doing PC ports as is. I'd rather pay for a upgrade at a fraction of a cost then wait 8 damn years for hardware to catch up again.
1. It's to my understanding that this would have the overhead to allow devs to just push out their same game designed to old specs and run it at 1080/60 with better PQ. If they want to take advantage of the new bells and whistles so be it.
2. As a consumer, it gives you another option. You can still play most of those games on your existing PS4. If you want a better experience then you pay to play, but you don't need to, you just want to. Welcome to everything else in life, including PC gaming.
This is a great solution I think personally. Last gen dragged on way too long looking long in the tooth. This gen launched without true cutting edge hardware that dated itself super fast. So this is the fix. And a welcome fix at that. 4K TVs/monitors are being adopted quickly, and that's without a lot of content for it. Sony has a TV brand to sell, they also have movie studios, and they would like to maintain a competitive edge. It needs to happen for us, and for Sony (and MS likely as well).
Next gen with PCI-E extenders I expect the machines to be basically PCs, with new GPU, RAM, and possibly CPU module add ons. This is not new to devs with PC experience, they'll be fine, just something else for them to bitch about despite many of them already doing PC ports as is. I'd rather pay for a upgrade at a fraction of a cost then wait 8 damn years for hardware to catch up again.
CosmicQueso
Member
Popsickles
Member
I cant see why a lot of people are looking at this as having the same issues as cross gen. If you upgrade your pc rig does it suddenly make every one else's games run bad NO it does not. All this is is a slight upgrade not a change of architecture. Literately for the first year or so all we will see is slight improvements like better shadows and AA, higher frame rates and textures or maybe better draw distance. Then I expect after a couple of years Sony will stop making the base then the base mode in games will suffer.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This absolutely makes no sense at all! I'm sorry etrain911, but you are being a little too emotional about this.
Your PS4 is still a great console! How can you look at Uncharted 4 today and be disappointed by what it can do?
ninjablade
Banned
You know I really see being held back by a ps4 as good thing, it means more 60fps games and better performance on neo. I'm perfectly happy with ps4 graphics, it's just sone really great third party games suffer in performance, and weak iq, and sony first party is really lacking in 60fps games this gen.
Audioboxer
Member
I prefer bells and whistles, graphics, fidelity, larger game spaces, better physics etc over 60fps, for most genres of game anyway. So what you're implying doesn't really benefit me as much.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You sure the PS4 is underpowered?
I mean.....
what were you expecting? The PC barely has games that look like these two.
Audioboxer
Member
You sure the PS4 is underpowered?
I mean.....
what were you expecting? The PC barely has games that look like these two.
I wouldn't go there. Art direction can trump raw technical ability... This is what happens with a lot of fantastic looking games. You'll find jaggies, low res textures, pre-baked lighting and other such things even in the best 1st party PS4 games.
ND are the kings of set pieces for one.
Papacheeks
Banned
So why haven't many PC dev's picked up the Art direction mantle? Blizzard does a pretty good job. But have yet to see anything like uncharted or the likes by them.
Audioboxer
Member
Because ND and Media Molecule don't do things on PC? It can be as simple as they are simply unique and special studios Sony have snapped up. 1st party console studios get major props for a reason... To get funded by and invested in by Sony requires some damn good talent.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Look at the GPU difference, more than 2x, that is to render the required frames without dropping the res too much and tom help port games from PC VR. The regular PS4 will limp along with PSVR, but Neo will shine.
That and I suspect that there isn't that big of a market for spectacle based linear shooters. We'll see how something like Visceral's Star Wars thing does. MM's stuff, however would probably do quite well. LBP would be a content creator's heaven with proper mouse and keyboard support.
Audioboxer
Member
Or the market for it is primarily on consoles, with a mammoth marketing agenda required by a closed platform owner to push it to millions.
Valve done it with the stellar Half Life series, but a lot of publishers don't want to go through the effort of it alone (on an open platform like PC) and would rather lean on Sony/MS to aid in marketing.
That is what I said.
Half Life isn't so much spectacle based. It is also a first person shooter.