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[Jacksinthe]

Awesome, so as long as Unity updates there software for the NEO to make games scale easier then all "SHOULD" be fine.

I hope Sony is working directly with them to help Unity do this in the future.

Yup. Outside of that any extensions i write i have to update on my own. Which is fine - i wrote them fairly flexibly and i've done it a few times. Never really requires a complete refactor.

Examples of my custom stuff:
UI
Physics
Peripheral Input

I have to make sure those are up to snuff with any update I make.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

If this becomes the norm and PS4 is turned into a platform that keeps evolving, updated hardware every 3-4 years for example, at least if the architecture is the same, one good thing that could come from this is that backwards compatibility should be less of an issue to implement.

 

[Razgreez]

Colin is right when he talks about "exclusives" on Neo. The upgraded resolution and frame rate IS the exclusive that you wouldn't be getting on the current PS4. Owning the current PS4 and seeing a game run, look and play better on Neo is basically what gamers were mad about three years ago when games were cross-gen. It's essentially the same thing but within the same generation which has never happened before.

Well it's not exclusive. It's available on a range of platforms with varying combinations of hardware. They're called PCs.

And even if they weren't they'd still be available in a development room somewhere on earth. So you're fine with improved versions of a game existing you just don't want anybody else to have access to them beyond the developers or people with PCs. Seems kinda selfish.

Person A: imagine if a full 1080p version of uncharted 4 existed at a solid 60fps

Person B: you shut your mouth you forked tongue heathen or we'll burn you alive!


Err... You catch my drift

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Colin is right when he talks about "exclusives" on Neo. The upgraded resolution and frame rate IS the exclusive that you wouldn't be getting on the current PS4. Owning the current PS4 and seeing a game run, look and play better on Neo is basically what gamers were mad about three years ago when games were cross-gen. It's essentially the same thing but within the same generation which has never happened before.

I'm not sure that I follow this. What specifically were gamers mad about 3 years ago?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Aside from the Wii, none of those risks console wise paid off. The original Xbox One policies is the problem...basically, trying to police everything. Sorry but no thanks.

As of now, im not required to buy a Neo and even though the specs is a minimal increase, what happens when a game like Horizon gets released at a locked 1080P and 60FPS on Neo but on the current PS4, it's 1080P but with the frame rate jumping around under 30FPS.

Colin is right when he talks about "exclusives" on Neo. The upgraded resolution and frame rate IS the exclusive that you wouldn't be getting on the current PS4. Owning the current PS4 and seeing a game run, look and play better on Neo is basically what gamers were mad about three years ago when games were cross-gen. It's essentially the same thing but within the same generation which has never happened before

Without Neo that is the version you would have played anyway .
There is only so much power in these system and fps take a drop comapre to gfx.
Also this nothing like cross gen where the system is 8 to 10 times more powerful.
PS4 is not going to hold back neo in any way really .
Even more so if go for better effects and fps.

 

[Papacheeks]

Development cycle. Not console cycle/generation.

So how much work would you have if let' say the next console remains x86, and still uses AMD chipset, but much more powerful cpu(better version of Jaguar, using HBM2 memory controller) more memory?

Would your tools and engine config for UNity you have scale well, or would you have to rewrite a lot?

When you say development cycle are you talking about how long your projects take for completion, or the transitional time from one platform to the next as in new SKD's are sent to you let's say around late 2017 and final spec console kit is send end of end of 2018.

I guess I'm trying to follow you in terms of how your workload is affected by change in hardware, and if it is how big the impact is if that hardware change is a lot more powerful but similar architecture as in staying x86, amd.

 

[timmyp53]

Colin is right when he talks about "exclusives" on Neo. The upgraded resolution and frame rate IS the exclusive that you wouldn't be getting on the current PS4. Owning the current PS4 and seeing a game run, look and play better on Neo is basically what gamers were mad about three years ago when games were cross-gen. It's essentially the same thing but within the same generation which has never happened before.

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

 

[Jacksinthe]

So how much work would you have if let' say the next console remains x86, and still uses AMD chipset, but much more powerful cpu(better version of Jaguar, using HBM2 memory controller) more memory?

Would your tools and engine config for UNity you have scale well, or would you have to rewrite a lot?

When you say development cycle are you talking about how long your projects take for completion, or the transitional time from one platform to the next as in new SKD's are sent to you let's say around late 2017 and final spec console kit is send end of end of 2018.

I guess I'm trying to follow you in terms of how your workload is affected by change in hardware, and if it is how big the impact is if that hardware change is a lot more powerful but similar architecture as in staying x86, amd.

Game development time.

The less we have to write or update or refactor specialized tools the better. With more consistent hardware profiles across iterations, this becomes easier to do. You'll always have to update but you're not jumping from alien hardware to alien hardware. This should alleviate a lot of stress during development. Not gonna lie tho, sometimes even small changes can have a big impact but the door usually swing the other way as a baseline.

 

[GlamFM]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

On point!

 

[NullPointer]

The ice cream stuff is really shitting up the discussion imo.

You don't see people mocking those who are looking forward to the NEO. It'd be cool if that worked both ways.

 

[bigboss370]

lol Colin Moriarty?

 

[Mr. Giggles]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

So edgy.

How about instead of using a condescending tone you engage him/her with rationale.

I'm no fan of the Neo but I can respect the views of others that are, even if I disagree with them

 

[Rembrandt]

The ice cream stuff is really shitting up the discussion imo.

You don't see people mocking those who are looking forward to the NEO. It'd be cool if that worked both ways.

Good luck with that.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

That's guys twitter is really awful. He's got some shitty ideas about society.

Surprised he's not a banned source.

 

[2thepoint]

So edgy.

How about instead of using a condescending tone you engage him/her with rationale.

I'm no fan of the Neo but I can respect the views of others that are, even if I disagree with them

What are you talking about? He is exactly right.

Complete nonsense.

 

[SpideySenses]

That's guys twitter is really awful. He's got some shitty ideas about society.

Surprised he's not a banned source.

Being a republican means you should be a banned source? C'mon now.

 

[mckmas8808]

Being a republican means you should be a banned source? C'mon now.

Yeah we can't get too crazy here. Most of his video games views are very level minded.

 

[Movalpolos]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

That is a great analogy.

 

[Neonep]

I think Sony should have just waited. This new PS4 could have been the updated model and they could phase out the original and just gave developers a heads up about the new architecture a year in advance of the announcement so they can start working on it. I do like Colin's idea that they should have waited a few more years and and made it the PS5 and it would be backwards compatible with the PS4.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

What are you talking about? He is exactly right.

Complete nonsense.

I get it, gamers are whiny babies thus the ice cream analogy

How is this helping the discussion though?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The ice cream stuff is really shitting up the discussion imo.

You don't see people mocking those who are looking forward to the NEO. It'd be cool if that worked both ways.

Truth is some of the discussion going around in circles because some points make no sense.
How can you even say PS4 to PS4K is anything like cross gen.
Also the more we find out the less somethings look bad\ going to be problems .
For eg getting the game to run on both system seem very easy , Q&A is most likely going to be a bigger factor than porting .
How they can't be Neo only features or exclusives etc etc .

 

[Movalpolos]

I get it, gamers are whiny babies thus the ice cream analogy

How is this helping the discussion though?

Oh you mean this discussion about a tweet that is baseless and intentionally deceptive?
We can continue that discussion.

 

[Quasar]

If this becomes the norm and PS4 is turned into a platform that keeps evolving, updated hardware every 3-4 years for example, at least if the architecture is the same, one good thing that could come from this is that backwards compatibility should be less of an issue to implement.

I actually thought that was a reason to go x86.

 

[family_guy]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

lmao so true Then Sony comes in and says we tried to sell sprinkles, but it caused to much discord between the have and have nots, so now nobody gets sprinkles.

 

[Chobel]

The ice cream stuff is really shitting up the discussion imo.

You don't see people mocking those who are looking forward to the NEO. It'd be cool if that worked both ways.

What's wrong with the ice cream analogy?

 

[Daft Punk]

The ice cream stuff is really shitting up the discussion imo.

You don't see people mocking those who are looking forward to the NEO. It'd be cool if that worked both ways.

No, instead we have people bringing up the same talking points again and again thinking that somehow the answers will change and trying to make it seem like people who support this idea are encouraging the downfall of console gaming as we know it.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Oh you mean this discussion about a tweet that is baseless and intentionally deceptive?
We can continue that discussion.

Then let's.

While I don't doubt that Colin added a healthy dose of hyperbole to his tweet I do doubt however that it was intentionally deceptive.

Could you elaborate on that?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Yeah we can't get too crazy here. Most of his video games views are very level minded.

He also posts on GAF.


I think he is naive and misguided in his politics but his video game analysis game is on point.

 

[Movalpolos]

Then let's.

While I don't doubt that Colin added a healthy dose of hyperbole to his tweet I do doubt however that it was intentionally deceptive.

Could you elaborate on that?

I'll let him elaborate for you.

I've also learned in this thread that he is a pundit and not a journalist. This gives him absolutely no integrity and relieves him from his obligation to relay accurate information.

 

[rambis]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Irl9cdnbQPk/hqdefault.jpg[/IG][/QUOTE]
Harsh but spot on mate.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'll let him elaborate for you.

I've also learned in this thread that he is a pundit and not a journalist. This gives him absolutely no integrity and relieves him from his obligation to relay accurate information.

Still fighting your crusade, hmm?

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I'll let him elaborate for you.

I've also learned in this thread that he is a pundit and not a journalist. This gives him absolutely no integrity and relieves him from his obligation to relay accurate information.

Cool man I'm listening right now, is there any bits I should jump to that highlights the deception or is it something I would walk away with after hearing the whole thing?

 

[ArtHands]

I think Sony should have just waited. This new PS4 could have been the updated model and they could phase out the original and just gave developers a heads up about the new architecture a year in advance of the announcement so they can start working on it. I do like Colin's idea that they should have waited a few more years and and made it the PS5 and it would be backwards compatible with the PS4.

is there a reason why you will assume there won't be a PS5 a few years after PS4.5?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Cool man I'm listening right now, is there any bits I should jump to that highlights the deception or is it something I would walk away with after hearing the whole thing?

There is no deception, Movalpolos has some weird obsessive agenda to discredit Colin. He talked to a source to talked to many developers, who were displeased with the Neo. Thats it.

 

[Servbot24]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

Spoiler

that was my video comment

 

[Movalpolos]

Cool man I'm listening right now, is there any bits I should jump to that highlights the deception or is it something I would walk away with after hearing the whole thing?

Do whatever you want.
Your mind was already made up.

 

[Marty Chinn]

No, instead we have people bringing up the same talking points again and again thinking that somehow the answers will change and trying to make it seem like people who support this idea are encouraging the downfall of console gaming as we know it.

Well this is true though with iterations. Gaming as we know it will go away and something new will be in its place. Whether that's good or bad has yet to be seen but the old traditions of console gaming will go away. So anyone who is in favor of this is encouraging the downfall of console gaming as we know it. That doesn't mean the downfall of console gaming.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

There is no deception, Movalpolos has some weird obsessive agenda to discredit Colin. He talked to a source to talked to many developers, who were displeased with the Neo. Thats it.

*sigh

I'll throw him a bone and listen anyways if it's turns out that Movpolos just hates him because he holds a view different to him then my ignore list just got a +1

Do whatever you want.
Your mind was already made up.

No need to get snippy, you gave me a source after I asked you to elaborate and I'll meet you in the middle and listen.

I'm willing to concede if what you say holds any water

Edit:

Good lord this is 2 hour podcast? Gonna listen to it all regardless, Greg looking well!

 

[Servbot24]

This Movalpolos character is ...something. It's just a guy saying things on YouTube dude. There have got to be better things for you to spend your energy on.

 

[Movalpolos]

https://twitter.com/notaxation/status/722487768291479554

In case you missed it.

 

[ArtHands]

I myself as a PC gamer primarily also fail to see the point of this "upgrade" surely the better policy would have been just to maybe hold tight for another year or so and just bring out an entirely new console?

I mean new tablets and phones come out every year right? Why not just release new consoles every 4 years?

This just seems like a way to make extra work for already overburdened developers and split your userbase.

You talk already overburdened developers and splitting userbase, yet suggest an entirely new console with new entirely everything. You should recheck your logic there.

 

[SpideySenses]

I feel like the better ice cream analogy would be that you're enjoying your ice cream, no sprinkles but a nice Bloodborne wafer and a few other wafers that you could have sworn were on the last ice cream you ordered. You're about half finished but those damn Gran Turismo and Last Guardian wafers are sinking to the bottom of the cone when you look over at someone who has a brand new ice cream. It's bigger, has the aforementioned sprinkles, the wafers you've already enjoyed and dammit, those wafers that you were looking forward to that were sinking are even bigger on his. You both finish your ice creams and it comes time to thinking about ordering another, last time you bought it everyone was rushing to the ice cream truck but now, maybe it's best to wait it out. Sure I got my Bloodborne wafer but I was half finished before I got the rest of what I wanted and I could have got a bigger ice cream if I'd waited to that point.

And If I'm Sony the ice cream truck, considering the amount of people who rushed to buy one last time, I'm not sure if I want people second guessing when or whether they're going to buy one this time, especially considering if you put your mind to it, you could buy some milk and make some ice cream of your own.

Not as pithy as the other analogy but there you go.

 

[Marty Chinn]

When you have people buying phones for $800 a pop

Most people don't do this.

every 12 months

Or this.

 

[Abdiel]

My point is something like that would split the userbase less because they wouldn't be focusing on two sets of hardware on a closed platform, that is a recipe for disaster.

At least with a new console people would be having the same experience and developers would be focusing on one set of hardware.

I understand people are reluctant to upgrade but tech moves fast and gone are the days of 10 year console spans imo.

$500 or £400 every 4-5 years isn't really asking a lot is it? When you have people buying phones for $800 a pop every 12 months and most people buying new tech every 6-8 months on average it seems more sensible to just give consoles shorter life spans and increase the hardware faster.

Your points are incorrect though, as there's no split base, because it remains the exact same games, playing the exact same servers, etc. There won't be Neo-SKU versions of games, etc. That's detailed in all the leaks associated with this.

Also, as several devs have already stated, it's also easier to work off the exact same architecture and just make the adjustments based on the higher power scope rather than having to rewrite for a totally different piece of hardware that has different spectrum. This being a PS4 with updates means it is not more complicated, and you're misplacing your concern for the developers, as is Colin, it seems.

As to the entirely new console generation, there's been nothing to reflect that Sony is prepared to move onto entirely new hardware architecture or a new generation that would have that in place, nor is this meant to be a step in that direction, it is a luxury/premium option for people that would like to get more power out of the existing generational products.

 

[stargateheaven]

how can 1 source provide the view of 1000s of dvelopers?

 

[2thepoint]

Then let's.

While I don't doubt that Colin added a healthy dose of hyperbole to his tweet I do doubt however that it was intentionally deceptive.

Could you elaborate on that?

I don't think he is being deceptive.

He just seems like hes pissed off with everything.

PS4 Neo may not be for everyone, but this complaining for the sake of complaining about everything and anything is just so withering.

Its fucking gaming, not life or death.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Well this is true though with iterations. Gaming as we know it will go away and something new will be in its place. Whether that's good or bad has yet to be seen but the old traditions of console gaming will go away. So anyone who is in favor of this is encouraging the downfall of console gaming as we know it. That doesn't mean the downfall of console gaming.

Consoles gaming as we know it changes every gen some way or the other .
Yes this will be a big change but only time will tell what going to happen .

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I don't think he is being deceptive.

He just seems like hes pissed off with everything.

PS4 Neo may not be for everyone, but this complaining for the sake of complaining about everything and anything is just so withering.

Its fucking gaming, not life or death.

Yea I'm listening to the PS I love you podcast right now, he's certainly a passionate individual.

Colin if you're reading this, calm down.

And to the rest of your statement..... Welcome to GAF?

 

[Papacheeks]

In other words:
I used to enjoy ice cream, until I realized that someone out there might have ice cream with sprinkles. Now I hate ice cream and also fuck everyone.

Sony now says my ice cream isn't made with real 100% dairy milk, if I want the true authentic ice cream experience with real dairy milk I need to pay more.

Oh, down the road using 100% real vanilla extract is exclusive to the "True" ice cream experience. Anyone who doesn't pay for this get's shitty fake tasting vanilla ice cream.

Is that better?

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Sony now says my ice cream isn't made with real 100% dairy milk, if I want the true authentic ice cream experience with real dairy milk I need to pay more.

Oh, down the road using 100% real vanilla extract is exclusive to the "True" ice cream experience. Anyone who doesn't pay for this get's shitty fake tasting vanilla ice cream.

Is that better?

no