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[Crocodile]

I'll admit that that short and blurry video isn't clear enough, that's why I was asking here if someone else saw it besides me because I wasnt sure. I'll reserve judgement for later and like I said, I'm still unbelievably excited for this game.

I mean you're 100% entitled to your opinion man but I feel you're a bit oversensitive? I'll just say I was legit stunned that we have new monsters, new animations, an improved idle stance and kick animations that, IMO, actually add to Miriam's potential character and give off a confident, "badass" vibe and your first reply/complaint is that there might be maybe .0003 nanoseconds of, within realistic confines, boob jiggle. That legit depressed me a bit

Now on the subject of the Bloodstained update.

I've noticed that Miriam does a kick attack. I wonder if there is any functional reason for the existence of the kick attack as opposed to the regular weapon swing.

I wonder if the will include certain enemies with varying weaknesses which the weapon might not be viable and the kick would be better suited instead.

Unless the kick is just her unequipped weapon attack, but I distinctly remember the weapon and kick being separate moves in a previous showcase of the game.

It seemed clear to me that the kicks in last update were for when she was unarmed. She didn't carry around a sword with her in that extended run-through.

Definitely, but the boob complaints come every update like clockwork, and there's never really anything new brought to the table each time it happens. It's obviously come to the point that people are choosing not to participate in the thread at all rather than trying to sift through yet another retread of the same topic. Maybe it should be split off into another thread so we can talk about non-breast tissue subjects without interruption and those that really want to sound off on that subject for the 20th time can freely do so elsewhere?

I'll admit I'm at a point where when that subject comes up my desire to participate in this thread basically drops to zero but its not something that deserves its own thread. There's no metric here by which this game is egregious in this regard and it would just be a regurgitation of points from both sides. I just hope we can hug and laugh and all agree to disagree respectfully

*hugz everybody*

 

[Valkyri von Thanatos]

I wasn't being completely serious but I do wish we could get a non sexualized strong female protagonist which is still up in the air so we'll see.

I'm still super excited about this game happening. It's just the depiction of Miriam that has me a little iffy.

Alright, I feel you. I agree that they should not sexualize her, if they have cutscenes up close where they emphasize the camera on breast jiggle, then I'd have a bigger problem and be reacting more strongly. As it stands though, the animation could be toned down imo, but it really doesn't strike me as inherently sexualizing in this context, rather that it is an attempt to bring more natural movement to the character. Note that the movement (which can be observed with more clarity by right-clicking and making the video go at half speed) appears to be a deformation with her forward momentum, followed by her chest coming back to its natural resting position at the end of her movement.

Basically, I understand where you are coming from, but for me, as long as the final game does not draw direct attention to "boob jiggle" through camera positions or more exaggerated animations, then it doesn't seem like purposeful objectification to me. Many games with "jiggle" focus on the breasts unnaturally moving up and down constantly like balloons, whereas what we see here is to my eyes more like a natural action->reaction for her animation. Which is why I'd classify it more as "chest movement" than "boob jiggle".

I understand why you see it as somewhat problematic, and I think it is good to voice concerns on this, particularly towards the developers so they can gauge public reactions. I do wish the Bloodstained threads could be a little less focused on her body though, what did you think of the monster designs?

I can't see shit, what the hell are you guys talking about?

Right as she dashes her chest moves slightly to the side, it doesn't bounce up or down and while it might move a little far I find Alex's assertion that boobs don't move like that to be ludicrous.

At that bust size and in anything out side of a binder your chest will bounce/move when you make fast movements. Again it's exaggerated but only as much as her dress is to show the movement of the character and really make it stand out as a whole. As a woman I don't see the sexulization to this animation,

What she said. You can slow the video down by right-clicking and using the menu options to make the animation in question more clear.

I'm not too sure about that.

Thanks for the response, like you, I don't want to derail discussion though, so I'll just agree that I'd like to see more discussion of the game and leave it at that. I think I made it clear that discussion on this topic isn't something I'd want to discourage for those who want to discuss it, just that I'd like to see the pattern be broken so to speak.

Hey dudes. Just as a general reminder, if you don't want to discuss something, you don't have to discuss it. But we prefer that people not try to prevent other people from discussing things that they personally don't want to discuss. If you're not into it, by all means be proactive and talk about the stuff that does interest you.

Got it.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Scrubbing the floor clean of the loading corridors is only fun for so long

On the subject of loading.

I wonder how they are going to handle the transitions from area in the next.

I remember on SOTN had these short hallways between each area which disguised a loading screen.

If you look above Alucard's head in this picture you see a small disc icon and the letters CD above it. I'm not sure if how many ever noticed this small detail to let the player know the game was about to load a new area and read data from the disc.

Just one of those minor touches I found interesting in SOTN.

I think maybe Bloodstained doesn't need to use these transition screens and store large portions of the Castle into accessible memory, or just a simple opening of a door and you are immediately in the next area kind of like the handheld games.

EDIT: I remember getting in debates with my friend who insisted the CD in these transition screens meant "Count Dracula" as opposed to CD, despite the clearly visible Disc looking object engraved in the stone.

 

[Crocodile]

These monsters confirm at least one "water level" in this game don't they?

Also the ribbons look good too <3

On the subject of loading.

I wonder how they are going to handle the transitions from area in the next.

I remember on SOTN had these short hallways between each area which disguised a loading screen.

If you look above Alucard's head in this picture you see a small disc icon and the letters CD above it. I'm not sure if how many ever noticed this small detail to let the player know the game was about to load a new area and read data from the disc.

Just one of those minor touches I found interesting in SOTN.

I think maybe Bloodstained doesn't need to use these transition screens and store large portions of the Castle into accessible memory, or just a simple opening of a door and you are immediately in the next area kind of like the handheld games.

They've said both that there will be these sorts of rooms in this game as well but that they are trying to go for seamless loading.

 

[Vazra]

As for the boob physics

 

[Beth Cyra]

As for the boob physics

Yep.

They pull to the side with the momentum and then realign directly with her breathing.

Not perfect, but leagues better then most Devs and mostly reasonable given she isn't wearing a binder. Mid say slim it down by about 10 percent and make the transition a bit smoother and it will look wonderful through out.

I do like that they don't have the flap flair up on her right side to show off her other boob. I think most Devs would have tried to work that in.

 

[OmegaDL50]

These monsters confirm at least one "water level" in this game don't they?

I can imagine tons of those Seama monsters just swarming Miriam in the underground aqueducts / catacombs like level, kind of like how the Merman enemies in SOTN just attacked in groups.

I'd think those Jellyfish enemies could be the equivalent uncomfortably clingy crowd mob attacker enemy in the castle water level.

Kind of like this

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Dude, have you ever seen a woman in real life?

...

Have you ever seen a woman in real life? Their boobs sometimes jiggle.

With that outfit she wouldn't be wearing a bra, so they would jiggle.

That's kind of the problem.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

That's kind of the problem.

I... is... is that a problem?

 

[R_thanatos]

I can imagine tons of those Seama monsters just swarming Miriam in the underground aqueducts / catacombs like level, kind of like how the Merman enemies in SOTN just attacked in groups.

I'd think those Jellyfish enemies could be the equivalent uncomfortably clingy crowd mob attacker enemy in the castle water level.

Kind of like this

I will BE disapointed , now if we don't have catacombs ..but are we even sure that the map is castle only ? couldn't have something like the outskirts of the castle too ?

Anyway more ennemy designs is welcome news. This month didn't disapoint

 

[The Giant]

I hope we see more at E3.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I... is... is that a problem?

Well why would any adventurer go out there without proper breast support? Do you go to work without your underwear?

 

[Teknoman]

Any new soundtrack excerpts?

 

[OmegaDL50]

I hope we see more at E3.

It's possible, but it entirely depends if Iga's staff has gotten the game to a point in which is ready to be showed off to the public beyond the snippets revealed so far to backers.

The game has an estimated March 2017 delivery day, but typical of most crowd funded games. I'd say it's a fair assessment to say it's more likely be later 2017 than earlier.

I don't think Bloodstained would creep into 2018.

On the subject of the developer for the game.

Is the development effort being credited under Inti Creates, or does Iga have his own special name under this project?

I guess the credits might say Koji Igarashi & Inti Creates. It's just something I've mused over and wonder what name I'll see when I first boot up the game.

 

[RamaKun]

I hope not the latter, I always liked turning around and back-dashing to move in SotN.

I bet you enjoyed Harmony of Dissonance.

On the subject of loading.

I wonder how they are going to handle the transitions from area in the next.

I remember on SOTN had these short hallways between each area which disguised a loading screen.

If you look above Alucard's head in this picture you see a small disc icon and the letters CD above it. I'm not sure if how many ever noticed this small detail to let the player know the game was about to load a new area and read data from the disc.

Just one of those minor touches I found interesting in SOTN.

I think maybe Bloodstained doesn't need to use these transition screens and store large portions of the Castle into accessible memory, or just a simple opening of a door and you are immediately in the next area kind of like the handheld games.

EDIT: I remember getting in debates with my friend who insisted the CD in these transition screens meant "Count Dracula" as opposed to CD, despite the clearly visible Disc looking object engraved in the stone.

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe these type of "transition" areas existed in the GBA and DS Vanias as well, where load times would have been a nonissue.

 

[lostsupper]

Well why would any adventurer go out there without proper breast support? Do you go to work without your underwear?

To distract and mesmerize bad guys.

Seriously though, fuck underwear. Let those puppies breathe, Iga.

 

[Crocodile]

Any new soundtrack excerpts?

Not yet but they've said Yamane has been working on some new tracks recently so I figure we'll hear new things soon. Maybe next update?

It's possible, but it entirely depends if Iga's staff has gotten the game to a point in which is ready to be showed off to the public beyond the snippets revealed so far to backers.

The game has an estimated March 2017 delivery day, but typical of most crowd funded games. I'd say it's a fair assessment to say it's more likely be later 2017 than earlier.

I don't think Bloodstained would creep into 2018.

On the subject of the developer for the game.

Is the development effort being credited under Inti Creates, or does Iga have his own special name under this project?

I guess the credits might say Koji Igarashi & Inti Creates. It's just something I've mused over and wonder what name I'll see when I first boot up the game.

Igarashi owns and runs the ArtPlay branch in Japan which has a few employees (including the community manager) who are all working on Bloodstained in one way or another. So while his name will obviously show up in the credits, I'd assume they would be under ArtPlay.

 

[Valkyri von Thanatos]

Based on what they have so far I'd be very surprised if they can finish it up in one year... I know how long this stuff takes based on my experience with Ori and I wouldn't be surprised if large parts of the map aren't done yet or will be redone, etc. (...) This game will take him far longer to complete and I'd be very surprised if he manages to do it under 3 years total development time.

I think this game will also likely take a long time, but as you said "who cares, let them take the time they need", right? I certainly think that when it comes time to delay it, they should do it in one big jump that gives them a lot more time, like at least 1 and a half more years. Constant delays are way worse than one big one, and they really want to avoid a Mighty No. 9 situation. Ideally they'd release a trailer, a solid demo for backers and delay the game by a year and a half, so about September 2018, going by the Kickstarter page.

I'd feel bad about getting it later, but I never really expected March 2017 to begin with, and they could probably even gain good will if they deliver the message that they need time to let the game bake to make it truly special. A demo being released is a big factor for generating goodwill here and I think it'd help a lot with fan disappointment. I feel most people who backed this would understand that IGA should not rush the game.

BTW, what did you do on Ori? It is always interesting to run into a developer hear on GAF, I aspire to make games with Metroidvania like elements when I'm done with college so it'd be interesting to hear something from someone who has already shipped a game.

I remember the previous IGAvania games had four assigned moves to the face buttons.

Basic Attack (Square button), Circle was either a Defensive shield raise (Alucard in SOTN for example) or the Sub-Weapon Attack, X was usually Jump, and Triangle was the Evasion / Back Dash move.

So I guess maybe they added the Kick to replace the shield / off-hand swing, or they removed the dodge mechanic?

I think this is the equivalent to the punch that Alucard had, so this is the Basic Attack without any weapons equipped.

I hope not the latter, I always liked turning around and back-dashing to move in SotN.

Moonwalk of the Night was funny at first but it quickly got tiring for me. It was just so much faster than regular movement that there was really no reason not to use it all the time, and it turns from goofy fun to a chore pretty quick. I'd be happy if we retained a backdash but had it limited similarly to the way later Metroidvanias did it.

I agree that they should nerf it's speed, but the actual utility of using it to dodge should be enhanced, make it an actual dodge mechanic, meaning that the player could choose roll left or right. Maybe even a quick air dodge like in Smash. Fast movement should be accommodated by some kind of transformation into a crystal wolf/tiger/panther perhaps?

Enemies are looking good, the updates are promising, and I like the general improvements to Miriam. It's great to have regular info with very little to complain about.

Yup, I hope we get something good to celebrate the 1 year anniversary, hopefully within a month of either the start or end of the kickstarter.

The biggest take away, I think which is probably a positive since this isn't the first time Iga produced this sort of game despite the lack of assets to carry over and needing to create everything all new, hopefully he found a means to streamline the process of map creation based on the previous experience.

Yeah, asset creation could take a lot of development effort, hopefully the 3D environment allows swifter animation tweaks after rigging the models and such. Can't wait for the different costumes Miriam will be able to wear compared to Alucard's palette swaps, it shouldn't be too hard to make ore since they won't have to make entirely new sprite-sheets for a different look. Keep the animation rig, just change the model. On that note, I hope we can see the "pure" costume sometime within the next 3-ish months to demonstrate costume changes, maybe with some mask, hat or pair of glasses as seen in that art they showed I think at an earlier PAX? Seeing the samurai guy in action would also be great.

I really like the enemy reveals so far. The head/flail guy is a cool idea I haven't seen before and I think it speaks to the promise of that Vania feel you get (gothic, vaguely demonic, etc). Plus I love the part about larger enemies that can actually be pushovers. That's something you don't see a ton of in modern games.

Between this and Shenmue, 2017 is gonna be awesome.

I'm hoping we'll be able to see the flail guy in action soon. I'm afraid Shenmue will need to be delayed past 2017 even more crucially than Bloodstained though, games just take a lot of time and they probably shouldn't have given only two years of dev time in their respective kickstarters. I guess developers trying to make a successful kickstarter feel they have to promise a product that a donor won't shrug off for being too far away, but still. I actually actively want both of those kickstarters to be delayed because I'd be worried what they would have to sacrifice to make a game in just two years.

[...]I was legit stunned that we have new monsters, new animations, an improved idle stance and kick animations that, IMO, actually add to Miriam's potential character and give off a confident, "badass" vibe[...]

Good catch, it is only onscreen for about one second so I wouldn't have noticed if you didn't point it out, and I like it! It does come off as pretty cool. As an aside, does anyone wish they'd release these preview videos in a higher resolution? It looks like they are running the game at 720p at best and are zooming in to the part of the screen they want to focus on for this video. I just wish we could see everything in detail closer to the shader voting pictures.

On the subject of loading.

I wonder how they are going to handle the transitions from area in the next.

(...)

I think maybe Bloodstained doesn't need to use these transition screens and store large portions of the Castle into accessible memory, or just a simple opening of a door and you are immediately in the next area kind of like the handheld games.

I think one might be able to argue that the loading areas served a purpose besides loading as well, since they also serve as a way to transition between areas and provide a brief aural and visual break. I'd say "quiet rooms" like that maybe should be around the castle, but only serve to help loading on the Vita and Wii U versions, which would need the extra help because they have much less RAM.

The PS4/PC/XB1/NX(?) ones should be fine and dynamically load a few rooms ahead of every possible route the user could take so that everything transitions completely smoothly, no fade ins or outs entering areas and the camera should pan in/out or side to side as smoothly as possible. The "quiet areas" I was talking about could serve to act simply as a transitional area for the player, maybe with a secret in one or two as a surprise . The visual aesthetic would ideally be more representative of of the area the user was going and coming from, with "quiet areas" merging the visual aesthetic of the two or more areas they connect to.

These monsters confirm at least one "water level" in this game don't they?

Also the ribbons look good too <3

They've said both that there will be these sorts of rooms in this game as well but that they are trying to go for seamless loading.

Yeah I'd say so on the water level part, have any Castlevania characters swam before? As in actually swam, not fallen in and walked around like Alucard.

I agree that the ribbons are a great addition to the design. I really hope for a cape as an alt item though, don't tell me it wouldn't be awesome to cosplay as Alucard with Miriam. Unfortunately, getting cameo reference costumes for say, Shanoa would be trickier, since her design is a little more specific than Alucard's cape, suit and boots. Maybe Miriam could grow her hair out longer? That'd look great!

Edit:

OH MY GOD! Sorry, I didn't mean to make this so long, but I wanted to reply to a lot of people.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Well why would any adventurer go out there without proper breast support? Do you go to work without your underwear?

Do you want a truthful answer?

Sure dont, my underwear are lacey and expensive so when I'm sweaty and stuff I'm not gunna ruin a 30/40 dollar piece of lengire.

Plus this is a woman with spikes growing out of her skull. The no bra is the least fetishist part of her design lol.

 

[Creaking]

Plus this is a woman with spikes growing out of her skull. The no bra is the least fetishist part of her design lol.

I'm fairly certain that's just a headdress.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Honestly, it's so subtle to me I 'm not seeing any real big deal here.

More importantly, those are interesting monster designs. Animations are starting to look pretty good. I'm interested to see just how large the final list of monsters and bosses is.

 

[Nicko]

Real life boobs do no jiggle like that but I now realize that it's more the exaggerated animation of her whole body that gives that feeling so I'm not sure how much of that we're the actual boobs jiggling and how much was her torso. But yeah of course this is a work in progress. I expect this to only look better with time but I continue to wish for Iga to give us a strong female protagonist who's not sexualized. But maybe that's just me.

It's not just you Alex! I definitely want the same thing, and really hope IGA steers Miriam's model towards a more practical design for a female demon hunter. There's just so much over sexualization of female game characters these day, and I hope Bloodstains does not end up following suit. I'm personally tempering my anticipation, as I dont want to get burned should the game steer in an inappropriate direction. As a married man, I just don't want to keep playing games with that stuff anymore.

 

[pariah164]

Everything looks awesome so far. Getting this as soon as it's out for Vita.

 

[Easy_D]

It's not just you Alex! I definitely want the same thing, and really hope IGA steers Miriam's model towards a more practical design for a female demon hunter. There's just so much over sexualization of female game characters these day, and I hope Bloodstains does not end up following suit. I'm personally tempering my anticipation, as I dont want to get burned should the game steer in an inappropriate direction. As a married man, I just don't want to keep playing games with that stuff anymore.

Yeah Miriam is kinda disappointing after Shanoa, who by contrast wore a full set of leather armour that covered everything except her arms and back (due to glyphs, I suppose).

I sincerely hope we see some mods that turn Miriam into Shanoa :lol

Edit: My memory deceives me, she actually shows quite a bit of leg in other artwork and the in game sprite. Still better than Miriam though.

 

[Dremark]

Yeah Miriam is kinda disappointing after Shanoa, who by contrast wore a full set of leather armour that covered everything except her arms and back (due to glyphs, I suppose).

I sincerely hope we see some mods that turn Miriam into Shanoa :lol

Edit: My memory deceives me, she actually shows quite a bit of leg in other artwork and the in game sprite. Still better than Miriam though.

I'll be completely honest I don't really view either of them as being particularly sexualized. Shanoa was creates due to Western requests for a female lead. She has her back uncovered, justified by the glyphs and shows leg for no particular reason.

A lot of people praised her character for being an example of a female character done well. Her outfit is not particularly sexualized but if you closely scrutinize it you could argue it is sexualized to an extent.

Miriam was originally planned as a male character but was changed in the planning stage because it was perceived that the western market would again apperciate a strong female lead. She has part of her chest shown because of the crystals and glyphs on her body. She also has part of her legs exposed to highlight the same thing.

I don't really see why this is considered worse than Shanoa, neither outfit is particularly revealing and if I was really pressed on the subject I'd honestly say Shanoa is more suggestive due to the low cut open back on her outfit and to a lesser extent the fetishy Zettai Ryouiki it features.

I don't really recall people complaining about Miriam during the kickstarter or prior to updates. Is she getting all this flack because her in game character model is detailed rather than being in detailed sprites?

It's getting to the point where the big talking point on every update is people complaining about her design, it kind of feels like thier intention with her character completely backfired and honestly I'm not really sure what's wrong with it, especially compared to Shanoa who is supposed to be a good example of a female character done properly.

 

[A Huge Battleship]

A lot of people praised her character for being an example of a female character done well. Her outfit is not particularly sexualized but if you closely scrutinize it you could argue it is sexualized to an extent.

You don't have to scrutinize it that closely, her official art makes a persuasive case.

 

[thomasmahler]

I think this game will also likely take a long time, but as you said "who cares, let them take the time they need", right? I certainly think that when it comes time to delay it, they should do it in one big jump that gives them a lot more time, like at least 1 and a half more years. Constant delays are way worse than one big one, and they really want to avoid a Mighty No. 9 situation. Ideally they'd release a trailer, a solid demo for backers and delay the game by a year and a half, so about September 2018, going by the Kickstarter page.

I'd feel bad about getting it later, but I never really expected March 2017 to begin with, and they could probably even gain good will if they deliver the message that they need time to let the game bake to make it truly special. A demo being released is a big factor for generating goodwill here and I think it'd help a lot with fan disappointment. I feel most people who backed this would understand that IGA should not rush the game.

See, that's my problem with Kickstarters, which is an inherently flawed concept to some degree, simply because gamers have been sheltered from how game development works, probably cause publishers early on never wanted to 'share their secrets', because they were afraid of their talent getting better offers from other places, etc. What we have now is an industry where most people have no idea how long it really takes to make a game and how elaborate the process simply is.

Making a Metroidvania or a 'Zelda' game (in my mind, Metroidvanias and Zelda games follow the same formula) is one of the most difficult genres to deal with, especially if you choose to take the route of connecting the entire world together. That may not sound like a big deal at first, but it truly is. Level design is easily the biggest bottleneck in production, it just all takes a long time to make and get polished... so I'd be very surprised if Igarashi can deliver this game before End of 2018. But if you're truthful about that on a Kickstarter, gamers would just go apeshit on you and would tell you you're a 'lazy dev', etc...

BTW, what did you do on Ori? It is always interesting to run into a developer hear on GAF, I aspire to make games with Metroidvania like elements when I'm done with college so it'd be interesting to hear something from someone who has already shipped a game.

I was the director / designer / writer at Moon (still am, but now we started to share a lot more work, so we always have 'a brain' on everything at all times), which means I managed the team creatively, I designed the game and most of the levels (another level designer, Michael, joined about a year or so in), and I wrote the story... all in all, that wasn't really the smartest thing to do, since I never had any free days during Blind Forest and stalled progress a few times simply because I wasn't done with this or that task yet, because others had priorities... Anyway, this is why I'm also so interested in seeing how other people, especially legends like Igarashi, manage their stuff. He seems fairly relaxed right now, it'll be interesting to see how he'll be degrading when the projects deadlines become more and more real

Yeah, asset creation could take a lot of development effort, hopefully the 3D environment allows swifter animation tweaks after rigging the models and such. Can't wait for the different costumes Miriam will be able to wear compared to Alucard's palette swaps, it shouldn't be too hard to make ore since they won't have to make entirely new sprite-sheets for a different look. Keep the animation rig, just change the model. On that note, I hope we can see the "pure" costume sometime within the next 3-ish months to demonstrate costume changes, maybe with some mask, hat or pair of glasses as seen in that art they showed I think at an earlier PAX? Seeing the samurai guy in action would also be great.

Actually, for a Metroidvania, I don't think the asset creation will take up the majority of time - I think you could easily manage your team so that assets finish way before the game does, simply because you can easily scale these tasks. You could even outsource a lot of it.

The biggest bottlenecks are usually level design and tech, but having said that, Castlevania always had simpler level designs than a game like Ori, cause they design their levels not around the challenging platforming, but around the enemy behaviors and the huge variety of enemies they have in them. Again though, that's a task you can easily scale by just hiring more artists or outsourcing, so I think design / tech will be their bottlenecks as well, especially cause they promised to be multiplatform, which is always a bitch (Yes, even on UE4 and Unity).

The PS4/PC/XB1/NX(?) ones should be fine and dynamically load a few rooms ahead of every possible route the user could take so that everything transitions completely smoothly, no fade ins or outs entering areas and the camera should pan in/out or side to side as smoothly as possible. The "quiet areas" I was talking about could serve to act simply as a transitional area for the player, maybe with a secret in one or two as a surprise . The visual aesthetic would ideally be more representative of of the area the user was going and coming from, with "quiet areas" merging the visual aesthetic of the two or more areas they connect to.

That's what we're doing on Ori. We're always figuring out which path the player could take and stream in assets all the time. I'd be shocked if they'd have some stupid transitional rooms in the game, especially cause the amount of data they're loading will be much less than what we had to load on Ori (simply cause we had gazillions of high res textures that just take up a lot of space), so there's really no need for that to happen.

 

[Dremark]

[...] I'd be very surprised if Igarashi can deliver this game before End of 2018. But if you're truthful about that on a Kickstarter, gamers would just go apeshit on you and would tell you you're a 'lazy dev', etc...

If he lets the date slip even close to that far he'll deserve all the flack he gets. He's done about 6 games in this style (9 if you count the 3D ones) so he should really be able to give something resembling a decent estimate on how long he'll take.

I can understand if he does delay the game, but considering his experience he should be able to get it a lot closer than 18 months off and with the amount of money he raised he should have been able to staff accordingly.

 

[Mivey]

If he lets the date slip even close to that far he'll deserve all the flack he gets. He's done about 6 games in this style (9 if you count the 3D ones) so he should really be able to give something resembling a decent estimate on how long he'll take.

This is with a new team, new technology and for far more platforms simultaneously (One of the reasons I was against all those port stretch goals). I would cut him some slack if his estimations were too optimistic.

 

[Dremark]

This is with a new team, new technology and for far more platforms simultaneously (One of the reasons I was against all those port stretch goals). I would cut him some slack if his estimations were too optimistic.

I am cutting him slack, if it's 6 months, 9 months I can understand him needing extra time. If it's 18 or something absurd I'm going to start calling him IGAfune.

Spoiler

Alright I'm not going to start calling him that unless they stop giving updates, give flimsy non-sense reasons for delays, run other kickstarters before delivering on this, get movie and cartoon deals going prior to the game's completion, etc.

In all seriousness he should be relatively close to the original estimate, it's pretty rare for a game being worked on by professionals to be delayed that long and when they are they are usually crucified for it.

 

[OmegaDL50]

I wonder how many staff members Iga has to work with. His team at ArtPlay and well as the guys at Inti Creates.

SOTN for example for the game itself of in-house developers, not including outsourced work for voice actors and musicians for the music. I believe it was a small team of 14 people.

Here is the credits with duplicate names removed.

-Staff-

-Producer & Director-
Toru Hagihara (Credited also as Programmer)

-Assistant Director-
Kouji Iga (Credited also as Programmer and Scenario Writer)

-Programmers-
Kousuke Iwakura

-Designers-
Reika Bando
Kimihiro Morishita
Hiroto Yamaguchi
Nobuya Nakazato
Shinichiro Shimamura
Noriyoshi Sato

-CG-
Kenishiro Imaizumi

-Scenario Writers-
Toshiharu Furukawa (Credited also under Designer)

-Sound Staff-
Michiru Yamane

(Music/Sound Effects)
O. Kasai

Character Designs & Illustrations-
Ayami Kojima

Still the design and work ethic required back in 1996 / 97 for developing SOTN may not be the same as required effort for Bloodstained. Still group of 14 people starting dev on SOTN around 1995 and releasing in 1997. Only three years.

You would think with Iga having more people to work with and newest development tools to work with as well as several similar games made under his belt, he would have streamlined the process to a certain degree.

Also Bloodstained started development back in June 2015 with some assets to show off shortly after the Kickstarter ended, so if we give him the estimated 2017 deadline, that would be under three years.

There is also the factor there is no recycled assets to work. Outside of the basic caramel map for room placement prior to creating art assets on top. A two year deadline is kind of strict, so I think it would be reasonable to be flexible with the release date considering this is potentially Iga's most ambitious project to date.

 

[@MUWANdo]

SOTN was developed over that period but it wasn't being worked on that entire time--IIRC, they did pre-production with around 6 people for a year or so while working on other things, then they were disbanded for around 9 months to work on something else, then they came back and went into full production, with only the last half of production requiring the entire team as listed in the credits. (I'm sure I fudged the numbers somewhere... most of this came out in the streams preceding the KS, from memory.)

 

[Stone Ocean]

SOTN was developed over that period but it wasn't being worked on that entire time--IIRC, they did pre-production with around 6 people for a year or so while working on other things, then they were disbanded for around 9 months to work on something else, then they came back and went into full production, with only the last half of production requiring the entire team as listed in the credits. (I'm sure I fudged the numbers somewhere... most of this came out in the streams preceding the KS, from memory.)

Really now? Didn't know that, interesting.

That was before Iga entered the project, right?

 

[@MUWANdo]

Really now? Didn't know that, interesting.

That was before Iga entered the project, right?

He joined during pre-production but I couldn't tell you exactly when. The game was originally conceived for 32X, of all things.

From what I recall, Hagihara initially intended to just produce the game and some unnamed person was going to direct, but that guy and some others were moved off the project for some reason (I think they actually quit but I really can't remember) and that was around the time IGA transferred to the team.

People point to Hagihara's director credit as proof that IGA erroneously took credit or something but from what I understand, the co-director thing is just a consequence of Hagihara being forced to work on the game more directly due to staff shortages.

 

[Heero5]

Can't wait to play the beta this E3...

Spoiler

based off of Ben Judd's comments.

 

[Sapiens]

I can't wait for the sexism comments to start over breast physics.

My wife's breasts never move at all. Real breasts don't titilate by jiggling.

 

[El Gringo]

My wife's breasts never move at all. Real breasts don't titilate by jiggling.

Funny because whenever my wife and I go jogging, even with a sports bra there is still some jiggle. And when she walks down the stairs in a shirt with no bra they bounce like mad.

 

[Sapiens]

Funny because whenever my wife and I go jogging, even with a sports bra there is still some jiggle. And when she walks down the stairs in a shirt with no bra they bounce like mad.

Please tell your wife to stop being physics. It's not happening, sorry.

 

[Parsnip]

Looks ace so far, I still believe in 2017.

Also I like physics.

 

[Gbraga]

Really enjoying these monster designs, the Seama is by far my favorite. Can't wait to see that shit in motion.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Wow the animation is looking great!

I backed this day 1 and have been pleasantly surprised by all the leaked footage shown so far. This is going to be something special.

 

[OmegaDL50]

He joined during pre-production but I couldn't tell you exactly when. The game was originally conceived for 32X, of all things.

Yep. I remember this, It started in 1995 and was scrapped and the projected shifted to the PSX and shortly afterwards.

In fact there is some remnants of the the character designs of the scrapped project which was called The Bloodletting.

Some of the designs were reused but slightly altered.

The character to the right in blue / black was recolored to become the Fake Trevor sprite in SOTN for example

 

[thomasmahler]

I am cutting him slack, if it's 6 months, 9 months I can understand him needing extra time. If it's 18 or something absurd I'm going to start calling him IGAfune.

Spoiler

Alright I'm not going to start calling him that unless they stop giving updates, give flimsy non-sense reasons for delays, run other kickstarters before delivering on this, get movie and cartoon deals going prior to the game's completion, etc.

In all seriousness he should be relatively close to the original estimate, it's pretty rare for a game being worked on by professionals to be delayed that long and when they are they are usually crucified for it.

Oops, I meant to say End of 2017, not End of 2018. From what they've shown, I don't think they have all that much yet. I'm sure they'll need at least another year just to produce all the content, then they'll need some time to polish it all up and add extra bits, then they'll need some more time for testing, QA and some time to get through CERT (a process Iga probably doesn't know that much about) on multiple platforms, so they can actually ship at the same time. If they're lucky, I'd say End of 2017 is realistic. I'd be interested in knowing when they think they'll have the map fully planned out, since that's one of the most important milestones for a game like that.

 

[Kojirospath]

My wife's breasts never move at all. Real breasts don't titilate by jiggling.

I'll need video proof of that!







(yes, i'm joking)

 

[chrono01]

The more I see of this, the more I want to increase my pledge from $150 --> $300 for the signed Collector's Box. I can't remember, did they close the BackerKits yet, and if not, did they state a time at which they will? The CDN collar is slowly improving, so I'd like to wait as long as possible before I upgrade.

 

[Rymuth]

The more I see of this, the more I want to increase my pledge from $150 --> $300 for the signed Collector's Box. I can't remember, did they close the BackerKits yet, and if not, did they state a time at which they will? The CDN collar is slowly improving, so I'd like to wait as long as possible before I upgrade.

I believe FanGamer is still running the SlackerBacker campaign. The Collector's Box is awesome, so I sprung for that but then my niece wanted the artbook so I went over to FanGamer to add the Dark Grimoire Tier for her as a present.

 

[zhixson]

My wife's breasts never move at all. Real breasts don't titilate by jiggling.

Depending on the bra, my wife's breasts ripple with every step she takes and she's a large B cup. When she freeboobs around the house, they are absolutely out of control.

Also, not sure what you mean by "real breasts don't titilate by jiggling" because every jiggle I see from hers definitely does just that.

 

[StarCreator]

Depending on the bra, my wife's breasts ripple with every step she takes and she's a large B cup. When she freeboobs around the house, they are absolutely out of control.

Also, not sure what you mean by "real breasts don't titilate by jiggling" because every jiggle I see from hers definitely does just that.

Pretty sure you're responding to sarcasm.

 

[zhixson]

Pretty sure you're responding to sarcasm.

Yeah, I can definitely see that now. Curse my overeager desire to talk about wife boobs.

 

[RealityCheque]

freeboobs

I learned a new word today. At the age of 35 that doesn't happen very often. Thanks for that.