I enjoyed the Metroid Prime trilogy, but I wish there was more characters to talk to in the game. I get that you're supposed to feel isolation, but...
Nintendo has been making the same games since the 80s
- Thread starter skypunch
- Start date
I enjoyed the Metroid Prime trilogy, but I wish there was more characters to talk to in the game. I get that you're supposed to feel isolation, but...
Then why not respond by saying so?
These driveby posts are becoming increasingly common and annoying.
Is that the game's fault? Should all games be just like how you want them to be? It's okay to not like something you know.
Personally I find the Metroid games to be highly narrative and having deep gameplay. Perhaps Metroid 2 doesn't count anymore as having deep gameplay, but at that time it was amazing. Especially considering the hardware and narrative games don't mean heavy on text.
Also how are the Fire Emblem games arcadey?
OrbitalBeard
Member
Maybe check out Xenoblade Chronicles or Xenoblade Chronicles X?
Edit - I see you've played them.
Sony has been making the same games since the 90s.
And MS has just churned out Solitaire clones for decades.
This industry is disgraceful. No wonder Konami wanted to get out. Pachinko is the home to true innovation.
But what's wrong with arcade like philosophies? I rather like games where you can play from the get go wherever you pick it up. But to post this after all the calamity over the Zelda series getting another delay...
And MS has just churned out Solitaire clones for decades.
This industry is disgraceful. No wonder Konami wanted to get out. Pachinko is the home to true innovation.
But what's wrong with arcade like philosophies? I rather like games where you can play from the get go wherever you pick it up. But to post this after all the calamity over the Zelda series getting another delay...
DownGrader
Member
The core point of Metroid series is isolation. It's not a game which would benefit from more characters to talk.
I did. Worse Xeno game I've played. I hate the characters, story & music.
No.
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
I agree that Nintendo has been making the same games since the 80s. Which is why I want them to try and make more and more new games and IPs. Recently we have gotten the fantastic Splatoon and Super Mario Maker, which were really fresh (despite the latter being a Mario game, it's very much an entirely new game). As long as they do that more often in the future we'll be good (like every year or two kinda often).
As for your point about "strong narratives" or "grounded visual style " I completely disagree. These don't inherently make nor contribute in making good games, and in a way they go against the essence of what Nintendo is.
DeuceGamer
Member
We have plenty of developers who are good at making those types of games. Very few developers focus on gameplay first and foremost to the extent that Nintendo does.
I would also add that Nintendo has given us games like Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, etc.... I wouldn't mind more of those but I absolutely do not want a philosophical change in the way Nintendo approaches game design.
I would also add that Nintendo has given us games like Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, etc.... I wouldn't mind more of those but I absolutely do not want a philosophical change in the way Nintendo approaches game design.
I would not mind if Nintendo diversified a bit to include such genres on their platforms more, to attract some of those gamers to make thei rplatform more financially viable.
But I don't want themselves and their interan devteams to do that and basically abandon their usual stuff.
Do it by making deals for exclusive content in that vein, or set up new devteams to focus on those. Personally I could care less for those games, as I find them just as boring and derivative as u seem to think some of Nintendo's longterm IPs have become.
Also deep ameplay does not equal fun gameplay either.
I tried some of those mentioned franchises and feel they usuall have horrible controls and not fun battlesystems. They literally depend on their looks, story and overtly complex loot and crafting systems.
But I don't want themselves and their interan devteams to do that and basically abandon their usual stuff.
Do it by making deals for exclusive content in that vein, or set up new devteams to focus on those. Personally I could care less for those games, as I find them just as boring and derivative as u seem to think some of Nintendo's longterm IPs have become.
Also deep ameplay does not equal fun gameplay either.
I tried some of those mentioned franchises and feel they usuall have horrible controls and not fun battlesystems. They literally depend on their looks, story and overtly complex loot and crafting systems.
Well, then you should know that the entire premise of your thread is wrong and Nintendo does make games outside of traditional, arcade game design.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
that's practically the opposite of what people want from Metroid.
having characters that talk led to Other M.
I think you should ask your doctor for a new medication.
Poltergust
Member
Isn't Zelda (and to a lesser extent Metroid) Nintendo's big "narrative-driven" series? I don't understand how you can look at a game like Skyward Sword and think it's an 80s arcade experience.
Nintendo also has a bunch of smaller IPs that focus on narrative as well. Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, etc. Nintendo isn't just Mario, and if you wish to have narrative-driven Mario games you're off by about 10 years (man, I miss how Paper Mario used to be structured, but oh well).
All that said, in my opinion Nintendo is at its best with their arcade-style offerings. They are pretty much the kings of polish and refinement when it comes to gameplay, so they should make use of that strength when they can. They also are virtually the only ones filling a niche of "AAA arcade-style games" and I wouldn't want them to lessen their output on that, despite how much fun I also have with indie games of the same kind.
Nintendo also has a bunch of smaller IPs that focus on narrative as well. Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, etc. Nintendo isn't just Mario, and if you wish to have narrative-driven Mario games you're off by about 10 years (man, I miss how Paper Mario used to be structured, but oh well).
All that said, in my opinion Nintendo is at its best with their arcade-style offerings. They are pretty much the kings of polish and refinement when it comes to gameplay, so they should make use of that strength when they can. They also are virtually the only ones filling a niche of "AAA arcade-style games" and I wouldn't want them to lessen their output on that, despite how much fun I also have with indie games of the same kind.
MrCunningham
Member
Give me a new 4v4 Ice Hockey, Nintendo. Make it use the Mii's if you have to.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Doesn't Mother/Earthbound series fill the "deep narrative" branch?
They sometimes make dark games too like they co-developed Fatal Frame V and Spirit Camera for 3DS with Tecmo-Koei, survival horror games, no less.
Zelda sorta fills the "narrative driven and fun gameplay" side of things also. Fire Emblem also.
They sometimes make dark games too like they co-developed Fatal Frame V and Spirit Camera for 3DS with Tecmo-Koei, survival horror games, no less.
Zelda sorta fills the "narrative driven and fun gameplay" side of things also. Fire Emblem also.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Where's that thread backfire gif?
Actually not really, they might not reinvent the wheel with every release, but their output is extremely solid from a gameplay perspective and I feel like they have got a very good grasp on where to expand elements for a future title (looking at Super Mario 3D Land for example).
So yeah, it might seem like they've been making the same games, but to me it just feels like they innovated when it felt right. Super Mario for the NES and Super Mario Galaxy are entirely different games merely sharing some of the enemy designs and Mario, but the progression there over Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine makes the innovation seem so small, which in my book is completely okay.
Nintendo isn't trying to be different, they know what works and they know how to utilize that knowledge. If they feel like they can expand the experience in one element, they do, otherwise they're not gonna bother with it if changes are only made as proof that they can make different experiences.
As far as their IPs go, well, they're very cautious about that. Splatoon was supposed to be a Mario game IIRC and Pikmin was initially too, but the game branched off to become an own IP simply because they opted to not have a brand attached to a new concept. Maybe if they didn't, we wouldn't complain about this, but at the same time at this point with so many different genres that would have been Mario, the franchise would've been stuck in a massive identity crisis at this point.
Instead for Mario itself, like said, they improve when it feels right, and I can respect that. The games have absolutely stellar level design and bomb solid gameplay as well, and if there's one company you can rely on that can make old concepts still feel fresh due to unprecedented polish, it's definitely Nintendo. Even if Super Mario 3D World didn't blow my mind with the story, the level design and solid gameplay have made it an absolute treat regardless, which at least to me said a good deal about how much Nintendo really is in need to innovate on that department.
So yeah, it might seem like they've been making the same games, but to me it just feels like they innovated when it felt right. Super Mario for the NES and Super Mario Galaxy are entirely different games merely sharing some of the enemy designs and Mario, but the progression there over Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine makes the innovation seem so small, which in my book is completely okay.
Nintendo isn't trying to be different, they know what works and they know how to utilize that knowledge. If they feel like they can expand the experience in one element, they do, otherwise they're not gonna bother with it if changes are only made as proof that they can make different experiences.
As far as their IPs go, well, they're very cautious about that. Splatoon was supposed to be a Mario game IIRC and Pikmin was initially too, but the game branched off to become an own IP simply because they opted to not have a brand attached to a new concept. Maybe if they didn't, we wouldn't complain about this, but at the same time at this point with so many different genres that would have been Mario, the franchise would've been stuck in a massive identity crisis at this point.
Instead for Mario itself, like said, they improve when it feels right, and I can respect that. The games have absolutely stellar level design and bomb solid gameplay as well, and if there's one company you can rely on that can make old concepts still feel fresh due to unprecedented polish, it's definitely Nintendo. Even if Super Mario 3D World didn't blow my mind with the story, the level design and solid gameplay have made it an absolute treat regardless, which at least to me said a good deal about how much Nintendo really is in need to innovate on that department.
packy34
Member
Both of these games have good gameplay, yes. Fallout 4's problem is writing and quest design.
DasPenguin
Member
I (kind of) agree. Nintendo was my first love in gaming, but GameCube was the last Nintendo console that I bought. Had zero interest in Wii, had even less interest in Wii U. Mario was my biggest draw, never really enjoyed Zelda. Same goes for Oblivion, Fallout, etc etc. RPG type games never appealed to me.
But for the life of me I don't understand who gets excited about Mario Kart at this day and age. Splatoon looks wonderful, and that's a step in the right direction. Anyone who gets excited about a new Mario Kart, a new Halo, or a new... God of War might be the longest franchise at this point Sony, I don't understand those people. I don't care how good the game is, I feel like I've played that game or series to death by now. It's like going to watch Die Hard 27 like 15 years from now and getting excited about it.
But for the life of me I don't understand who gets excited about Mario Kart at this day and age. Splatoon looks wonderful, and that's a step in the right direction. Anyone who gets excited about a new Mario Kart, a new Halo, or a new... God of War might be the longest franchise at this point Sony, I don't understand those people. I don't care how good the game is, I feel like I've played that game or series to death by now. It's like going to watch Die Hard 27 like 15 years from now and getting excited about it.
Revolutionary
Member
peaceiscloser
Member
Mario had a compelling narrative once.
It was called The Thousand Year Door.
RIP Paper Mario
It was called The Thousand Year Door.
RIP Paper Mario
Red Arremer
Member
It feels like you're approaching Nintendo games already with the mindset of "I want to dislike this because it's Nintendo".
Sumio Mondo
Member
If that's what OP is after then the new Zelda is going to be that, by the sounds of things. Plus whatever else Monolith Soft make next.
johnthehero
Banned
Yeah you're right. People just give them a pass because they're fun games. Imagine 20+ years of Assassin's Creed games. You'd be able to call out Ubisoft for making the same game for 20+ years. Nintendo? No way.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
That's two games I'm really excited for.
publicpwnerer
Member
Well, they have more complex systems than just walk and double jump.
Agreed entirely, Nintendo's game design philosophy has always remained the same since the NES days. Modern day Nintendo games and select indie titles feel like the direct successors to games I played back in the day. The only difference is that some games such as OoT and DKC have a more serious/epic tone to them, compared to the more cutesy nature of today's games, but gameplay wise it's the same.
I would lie if I said it wouldn't be interesting to see what EAD comes up with if they try to outdo The Last of Us at being The Last of Us (not indirectly by doing Mario). We've already seen glimpses of what Nintendo can contribute to the hardcore space in modern times, of course I'm thinking of the "horses don't run into trees" moment. It's something you don't think about but at the same time so true, while it makes sense gameplay wise (manually avoiding objects of nature would get boring real quick) as long as there's opportunity for multitasking, for example you focus on fending off enemies with the bow while Epona is pretty much on auto pilot mode.
That said, logistically it would be hard to pull off since their current teams are relatively small and have no experience with stuff like motion capture.
You should play Kid Icarus Uprising particularly for the cutscenes and dialogue parts, I especially love the style of humor in the game. I've watched quite a bit of Ratchet & Clank PS4 lately and I think the humor feels dry and forced in comparison. It's like a game made by adults who think this is what kids want, while Uprising is a game made by adults for adults, disguised as a kids game.
SatoAilDarko
Member
A lot of Nintendo games have much stronger narratives than before. Even Splatoon has much more story than 80's games.
If you talking specifically about RPG's your completely skipping over their Fire Emblem and Xenoblade Chronicles games.
If you talking specifically about RPG's your completely skipping over their Fire Emblem and Xenoblade Chronicles games.
Blackquill
Member
I didn't say they have bad gameplay, they are not really deep however
But they're multi-faceted in a way that a lot of Nintendo games aren't.
packy34
Member
They're a lot deeper than you're average Nintendo title which was basically OP's point.
Their usual line of games doesn't need to be darker or more story heavy, but I do agree that Nintendo's line up tends to be rather predictable and not very surprising. I do think this limits Nintendo's appeal to meany people, so I agree that creating some new games that take an unpredicted turn might be a good idea to attract new attention.
Of course, there are games like Bayonetta 2 or Project Zero but these games dont event try to appeal to a wider audience.
Of course, there are games like Bayonetta 2 or Project Zero but these games dont event try to appeal to a wider audience.
MrCunningham
Member
Punch-Out on the Wii is a fine game, but the NES game is superior.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Purely in terms of gameplay, I don't really agree.
I don't understand the reactions effectively saying "Nintendo make these kinds of games, deal with it". I think what the OP is meaning is that, for instance, someone like Sony makes Ratchet & Clank, they give us stuff like Bloodborne, Until Dawn, Journey, Gran Turismo, Driveclub, Infamous, Heavy Rain... you know a wide range of games targeting different audiences with different atmospheres. When you look at Nintendo games it is somewhat one note.
Yeah there's a few things branching out into different genres and styles but very little. Nintendo fans seem content oohing and ahhing over the latest Donkey Kong or Yoshi game announcement while most others look on bewildered at what's so exciting about them. Nintendo proudly boast about one new gameplay feature or something while I sit there waiting for something truly new and innovative, not a small adjustment to an old (if well made) franchise.
Yeah there's a few things branching out into different genres and styles but very little. Nintendo fans seem content oohing and ahhing over the latest Donkey Kong or Yoshi game announcement while most others look on bewildered at what's so exciting about them. Nintendo proudly boast about one new gameplay feature or something while I sit there waiting for something truly new and innovative, not a small adjustment to an old (if well made) franchise.
Do they though? Like, what is the standard of comparison here? My mind instantly jumps to Mario and Splatoon, possibly two of the most mechanically deep games in recent memory. Or are we talking Zelda and Metroid, which are perhaps less complex in that way? (Actually less sure about Metroid, never really thought about it in terms of gameplay depth, just usually more into level design)
Because jesus if we're talking from a gameplay perspective I don't think Fallout 4 has shit in terms of _deep_ mechanics, but it is half an RPG, so idk
Yup.
The Giant
Banned
Nintendo releases a few new ip's every year. Big and small. Splatoon, big ip. Dillion, Crashmo/Pullbox, Box Boy. small ip's
If the Assassin's Creed games within those years were as different and consistently polished and well crafted as, say, Ocarina of Time to Majora's Mask to Wind Waker to Twilight Princess to Skyward Sword to Zelda Wii U, why would anyone call them out on it?
Next thing we're gonna argue Rockstar has been making the same GTA since GTA III.