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[Prodigal Son]

And at this point, the best way for him to "spread his message" would be to negotiate with Hilary Clinton to push the message and endorse her, since she actually has a chance of winning.

What he's doing now is actually the opposite; he's pushing people away from his message.

I hear you. I might even agree with you. No reason for him to not do both, right? Perhaps Hillary Clinton can learn something from his criticism of her faults and better herself as a candidate?

Regardless, she has already spoken ill of adopting more of his progressive policies/message. She has pointed out that there were no terms and conditions of her endorsement of Obama back in 2008.

 

[giga]

Can someone explain this article to me that I happened to stumble upon on Twitter?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-g...rs-before-fbi-reveals-findings_b_9836720.html

Like......is this for real? I legit don't know.

(not sure where else to ask this)

 

[RurouniZel]

I hear you. I might even agree with you. No reason for him to not do both, right? Perhaps Hillary Clinton can learn something from his criticism of her faults and better herself as a candidate?

Regardless, she has already spoken ill of adopting more of his progressive policies/message. She has pointed out that there were no terms and conditions of her endorsement of Obama back in 2008.

But she did end up endorsing Senator Obama once she had no path to win, and Bernie is just stubbornly holding on. That's what's frustrating. I love his message and his platform; I even liked the guy up until about a month or so ago. He's just... acting super bitter now. And it's just sad.

 

[Mr Clutch]

Okay... Then why does he refuse to support the down ticket elections? He would need to start now if he actually wants to implement anything.

And how will it 'spark change' if he can't get anything accomplished during his tenure?

Would you support someone who has basically talked poorly of you and given their support to the person you are competing against?

Bernie basically has said his win will influence votes for down ticket candidates. Also, Bernie brings with him around 25% cross party favorable votes. Basically he is saying him just winning the nom (and eventually the General) will in turn give momentum to the down-ticket candidates.

Also, while on the subject, it isn't like Hillary is supporting down ticket candidates. I mean yeah she has raised $18-20 million for them, but as we know its currently sitting in a "Victory for Hillary" fund within the Pro-Hillary DNC run by a former Hillary co-chair...

 

[damisa]

How 'special' a message is has nothing to do with how well it's received (or even the quality of the message).

I'd be lynched if I spoke of racial equality in 1930s America. That doesn't mean it's a shit idea, does it?

Give it up. That was a blatantly stupid point.

So basically by special you just mean what you personally find to be a good message, other opinions don't matter, gotcha.

Let me ask you this, do you think in the last month, your average Hillary voter's opinion on Bernie as a person and on his message has:
1. improved
2. stayed the same
3. gotten worse

Do you really think making the majority of the Democratic party dislike you is a good long term strategy for reforming the party into your ideal progressive version?

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Participating in the Democratic election equals wasting his time apparently. Stop being salty for crying out loud.

lol I'm not remotely "salty". Just calling it like it is: he has no path to victory, and the money that's being donated to him is basically just being thrown away at this point. It's a wasted effort by every definition. If you want to sit in denial though, be my guest.

 

[Prodigal Son]

But she did end up endorsing Senator Obama once she had no path to win, and Bernie is just stubbornly holding on. That's what's frustrating. I love his message and his platform; I even liked the guy up until about a month or so ago. He's just... acting super bitter now. And it's just sad.

The word bitter comes up often with Clinton supporters. I don't see it personally.

If staying in the race when, early on, you promised to do so until the convention, is 'bitterness' then I think we need more bitter politicians in this country.

 

[Frozenprince]

He's just gonna take his ball (all his money) and go home isn't he?

What a disingenuous ass. If you're preaching about changing the system, how about putting your literal money where your mouth is and SUPPORTING DOWN TICKET DEMS TO OUST THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY?

 

[SolicitorPirate]

At this stage, I've already said "Fuck Sanders" so many times that I sound like a broken record.

So fuck Bernie

 

[Thatonemoor]

lol I'm not remotely "salty". Just calling it like it is: he has no path to victory. It's a wasted effort by every definition. If you want to sit in denial though, be my guest.

I'm not in denial I know that he more then likely can't win but I'm sick of people demanding that he just drop out already like he is not some how inclined to do so. If he wants to keep going and if his supporters want him to keep going then I don't see why he should quiet.

 

[Irnbru]

He's just gonna take his ball (all his money) and go home isn't he?

What a disingenuous ass. If you're preaching about changing the system, how about putting your literal money where your mouth is and SUPPORTING DOWN TICKET DEMS TO OUST THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY?

Because according to this very thread his influence will do! We've seen influence work so well! Wow!

 

[Draper]

He's just gonna take his ball (all his money) and go home isn't he?

What a disingenuous ass. If you're preaching about changing the system, how about putting your literal money where your mouth is and SUPPORTING DOWN TICKET DEMS TO OUST THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY?

He's taking the money home, huh?

At this stage, I've already said "Fuck Sanders" so many times that I sound like a broken record.

So fuck Bernie

How edgy of you.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Doing alot of harm to the party right now, but he doesn't give a shit about the democratic party anyway. He's in this because he has a huge ego and it's his way or the highway. He's also living the good life on his donor's dollars.

 

[Mr Clutch]

As Democratic voters, anyone on here asking him to drop out is in the minority within the Party.

Polls yesterday state that 59% of Democratic voters want Bernie to stay. 89% of Bernie Supporters and 29% of Hillary supporters want him in the race till the end.

 

[Irnbru]

He's taking the money home, huh?



How edgy of you.

Well he did take that 300k vacation to Rome, lol

 

[RurouniZel]

The word bitter comes up often with Clinton supporters. I don't see it personally.

If staying in the race when, early on, you promised to do so until the convention, is 'bitterness' then I think we need more bitter politicians in this country.

Things change though. He said he'd fight to the bitter end back when the race was a lot closer and was looking more like he'd be in much better contention. Fighting to the bitter end, even when you're losing, is admirable when there is still a chance of winning. Not giving up on the game just because you're behind is a great quality because you should try to win. It's no longer admirable to fight when there's no mathematical possibility of winning; it's just stubborn pride.

 

[Mael]

lol I'm not remotely "salty". Just calling it like it is: he has no path to victory, and the money that's being donated to him is basically just being thrown away at this point. It's a wasted effort by every definition. If you want to sit in denial though, be my guest.

It's not getting thrown away!
Weaver's new comicbook stores aren't gonna build themselves!

 

[BanGy.nz]

Bernie basically has said his win will influence votes for down ticket candidates.

He did an bang up job of that in Wisconsin.

 

[Mr Clutch]

Things change though. He said he'd fight to the bitter end back when the race was a lot closer and was looking more like he'd be in much better contention. Fighting to the bitter end, even when you're losing, is admirable when there is still a chance of winning. Not giving up on the game just because you're behind is a great quality because you should try to win. It's no longer admirable to fight when there's no mathematical possibility of winning; it's just stubborn pride.

Mathematical possibility? Didn't he just state a few days ago his plan is to convince and turn the Super Delegates to his side during a contested convention? There is more than one way to win this thing. Neither him nor Hillary will get enough delegates to lock the nom by the Convention. Saying there is no chance is absolutely wrong.

 

[eBay Huckster]

As Democratic voters, anyone on here asking him to drop out is in the minority within the Party.

Polls yesterday state that 59% of Democratic voters want Bernie to stay. 89% of Bernie Supporters and 29% of Hillary supporters want him in the race till the end.

and another 10% and 40% (respectively) are fine with him staying in thru about June 15th, which is right around where I stand

 

[andythinkpad]

Good for him. I am sorry I couldn't vote for him since New York was closed primary.

 

[RurouniZel]

Mathematical possibility? Didn't he just state a few days ago his plan is to convince and turn the Super Delegates to his side during a contested convention? There is more than one way to win this thing. Neither him nor Hillary will get enough delegates to lock the nom by the Convention. Saying there is no chance is absolutely wrong.

He's never going to convince the Super Delegates to change camps at this point because unlike when they switched for Senator Obama he's not even remotely close to winning. The Super Delegates would only switch if he won 100% of the vote from here on out at this point. And frankly, that's just a pipe dream.

 

[Irnbru]

Mathematical possibility? Didn't he just state a few days ago his plan is to convince and turn the Super Delegates to his side during a contested convention? There is more than one way to win this thing. Neither him nor Hillary will get enough delegates to lock the nom by the Convention. Saying there is no chance is absolutely wrong.

So go against the will of the people? I mean, if we're talking popular vote and # of delegates?

Edit: Beaten lol

 

[Prodigal Son]

So basically by special you just mean what you personally find to be a good message, other opinions don't matter, gotcha.

Let me ask you this, do you think in the last month, your average Hillary voter's opinion on Bernie as a person and on his message has:
1. improved
2. stayed the same
3. gotten worse

Do you really think making the majority of the Democratic party dislike you is a good long term strategy for reforming the party into your ideal progressive version?

No. By special I mean special: what the word special means to me and other English speakers. "Better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual." Nothing we're discussing is empirical. We're discussing who we're voting for. This is inherently a subjective, opinion based discussion. "That's just your opinion" has got to be the weakest counter-argument I've ever encountered on this board. Congrats

The opinion of Bernie has clearly gotten worse in the past month by Clinton supporters. No shit. It's a primary. Shit's divisive. Hillary people were ready to claw Obama's eyes out in 2008. Yet Hillary's disapproval ratings have been higher than any other candidate's aside from Trump. Guess what? A large number of Bernie supporters can't stand Clinton either. Bernie supporters are a little less than 50% of the democratic party based on current national averages. This is a two way street. Regardless of who is the nominee, most democrats will fall in line and support them. This is especially the case of Hillary Clinton supporters who value the democratic party over substantive or policy.

Things change though. He said he'd fight to the bitter end back when the race was a lot closer and was looking more like he'd be in much better contention. Fighting to the bitter end, even when you're losing, is admirable when there is still a chance of winning. Not giving up on the game just because you're behind is a great quality because you should try to win. It's no longer admirable to fight when there's no mathematical possibility of winning; it's just stubborn pride.

I think there's still one unlikely scenario where Bernie thinks there's a chance he might be the nominee and I assume I don't have to specify what that scenario is.

Aside from staying in as an important message candidate, he's keeping himself in as backup should this unlikely scenario somehow come to fruition.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

How edgy of you.

They call me Shadow

 

[Mael]

Mathematical possibility? Didn't he just state a few days ago his plan is to convince and turn the Super Delegates to his side during a contested convention? There is more than one way to win this thing. Neither him nor Hillary will get enough delegates to lock the nom by the Convention. Saying there is no chance is absolutely wrong.

He isn't going to convince the SD when he's basically throwing them under the bus whenever he see fit.

As someone else said

Would you support someone who has basically talked poorly of you and given their support to the person you are competing against?

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's fascinating how this campaign that started as this grassroots genuinely liberal movement has turned into a radioactive dumpster fire.

Bernie's legacy will be one of bitterness, not hope.

I'm going to make an argument that it never really was grassroots.

Yes it was a lot of small donors but his campaign was run on stages and speeches and ads and outspending Clinton.

While Sanders was getting ready to go or was already off in The Vatican Clinton was in Harlem playing Dominoes with folks.

Clinton's big win in South Carolina that essentially won her the nomination was due to her going into those communities and talking directly to community leaders, organizing with mothers who lost children due to police violence etc....

Clinton more so than Sanders was down there doing the footwork.

 

[Koomaster]

Dude is 100% garbage; has been for a while, but now he's just going to continue rotting and stinking up the place.

Obama, please end this, just endorse Hillary and everyone can ignore Bernard going forward.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

So go against the will of the people? I mean, if we're talking popular vote and # of delegates?

Don't you see? The will of young white people is the will of the people. Everyone else is part of the establishment

 

[ugaboga232]

I'm going to make an argument that it never really was grassroots.

Yes it was a lot of small donors but his campaign was run on stages and speeches and ads and outspending Clinton.

While Sanders was getting ready to go or was already off in The Vatican Clinton was in Harlem playing Dominoes with folks.

Clinton's big win in South Carolina that essentially won her the nomination was duevto her going into those communities and talking directly to community leaders, organizing eith mothers who lost children due to police violence etc....

Clinton more so than Sanders was down there doing to footwork.

Didn't she have a huge lead before sanders even announced? Not saying she didn't do that or it didn't help, but its not like this was a tortoise and a hare type scenario.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Mathematical possibility? Didn't he just state a few days ago his plan is to convince and turn the Super Delegates to his side during a contested convention? There is more than one way to win this thing. Neither him nor Hillary will get enough delegates to lock the nom by the Convention. Saying there is no chance is absolutely wrong.

There is no chance.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I'm not in denial I know that he more then likely can't win but I'm sick of people demanding that he just drop out already like he is not some how inclined to do so. If he wants to keep going and if his supporters want him to keep going then I don't see why he should quiet.

He should quit for the same reason literally every candidate ever should quit once the race is unwinnable: all he's doing is wasting people's time and money. I would be saying the exact same thing if the table were completely reversed by the way.

There is no good reason to continue at this point. There's no benefit to his platform, or his supporters, or the candidate with the closest ideals to him. Explain what good reason he has to continue, and how it negates any potential harm? Why on Earth should he not be expected to be a gracious loser and not force some completely unnecessary drawn out primary for the sake of... well, apparently nothing?

The thing is, at the end of the day all he's doing is hurting his own platform and ideals anyway. He's still trying to weaken Hillary, a candidate who shares the majority of his stances, at the expense of strengthening Donald Trump, someone diametrically opposed to either candidate. But of course, he doesn't really care. At this point it's clear he just wants to be president, and being "salty" over the fact that he has no chance to win, he's willing to damage many of the very causes he supports to prove a point via some sort of extended temper tantrum.

For God's sake, even Ted Cruz was willing to accept to defeat, and he still had a better chance of getting in through a contested convention than Sanders. Bernie's just being a child.

 

[Prodigal Son]

There is no chance.

I'm convinced.

 

[NeuAscension]

It comes down to Hillary supporters not wanting a contested convention. I think it's what the democratic party needs. It's good for political discourse, and pushing the platform further left. The DNC is almost as bad as the RNC. They have donors to protect, which is why you are seeing the calls for him to drop out.

 

[Mr Clutch]

He did an bang up job of that in Wisconsin.

In regards to Bradley, there are other factors in play here. A Gary Lugum article on Salon covers it nicely:


-The candidates’ names were listed without a letter indicating party affiliation next to them, since the election was officially nonpartisan. In that case, a lot of people might have just punched a name without knowing anything about the candidates.

-Wisconsin was an open primary, so some conservatives could have voted for Sanders just to mess with Clinton, then further down marked their ballots for the conservative judge.

-Mischief-making by partisans is always a danger with open primaries.
This was a general election stuck on a day that was otherwise thought of as a primary, which likely depressed turnout.

 

[PBY]

There is no chance. Like -it doesn't exist. Also look at the polling in CA.

It's over.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I'm going to make an argument that it never really was grassroots.

Yes it was a lot of small donors but his campaign was run on stages and speeches and ads and outspending Clinton.

While Sanders was getting ready to go or was already off in The Vatican Clinton was in Harlem playing Dominoes with folks.

Clinton's big win in South Carolina that essentially won her the nomination was duevto her going into those communities and talking directly to community leaders, organizing eith mothers who lost children due to police violence etc....

Clinton more so than Sanders was down there doing to footwork.

Personally, I disagree.

I've always believed most liberals only believe in progressive values only to the extent that they directly from them.

The fact that Sander's campaign was a grassroots movement is precisely why it's turned into the dumpster fire that we see today.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Mathematical possibility? Didn't he just state a few days ago his plan is to convince and turn the Super Delegates to his side during a contested convention? There is more than one way to win this thing. Neither him nor Hillary will get enough delegates to lock the nom by the Convention. Saying there is no chance is absolutely wrong.

With the current rules and math It's impossible for a two person race to be a end in a contested convention... So unless Biden plans on jumping in and somehow winning the rest of the delegates that dream is dead.

 

[Mael]

In regards to Bradley, there are other factors in play here. A Gary Lugum article on Salon covers it nicely:


-The candidates’ names were listed without a letter indicating party affiliation next to them, since the election was officially nonpartisan. In that case, a lot of people might have just punched a name without knowing anything about the candidates.

-Wisconsin was an open primary, so some conservatives could have voted for Sanders just to mess with Clinton, then further down marked their ballots for the conservative judge.

-Mischief-making by partisans is always a danger with open primaries.
This was a general election stuck on a day that was otherwise thought of as a primary, which likely depressed turnout.

Wait, aren't conservatives the reason Clinton is ahead as per the Deep South discussion earlier?

 

[sturgboski]

No. By special I mean special: what the word special means to me and other English speakers. "Better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual." Nothing we're discussing is empirical. We're discussing who we're voting for. This is inherently a subjective, opinion based discussion. "That's just your opinion" has got to be the weakest counter-argument I've ever encountered on this board. Congrats

The opinion of Bernie has clearly gotten worse in the past month by Clinton supporters. No shit. It's a primary. Shit's divisive. Hillary people were ready to claw Obama's eyes out in 2008. Yet Hillary's disapproval ratings have been higher than any other candidate's aside from Trump. Guess what? A large number of Bernie supporters can't stand Clinton either. Bernie supporters are a little less than 50% of the democratic party based on current national averages. This is a two way street. Regardless of who is the nominee, most democrats will fall in line and support them. This is especially the case of Hillary Clinton supporters who value the democratic party over substantive or policy.



I think there's still one unlikely scenario where Bernie thinks there's a chance he might be the nominee and I assume I don't have to specify what that scenario is.

Aside from staying in as an important message candidate, he's keeping himself in as backup should this unlikely scenario somehow come to fruition.

Wonder if that changes when his history is brought to light. Hating Clinton works because she has been dragged through the mud for decades. Sanders has not, which is part of why he is viewed so highly and can point to polls showing him winning the GE. If Trump can get people to believe Cruz's dad was part of the JFK assassination based on doctored photos and an article in a tabloid, what do you think happens when he goes after Sanders and his history?

As for that scenario, stop listening to Fox News and Weaver.

It comes down to Hillary supporters not wanting a contested convention. I think it's what the democratic party needs. It's good for political discourse, and pushing the platform further left. The DNC is almost as bad as the RNC. They have donors to protect, which is why you are seeing the calls for him to drop out.

Or, or, it could be that Sanders has no chance, that him keeping the party divided and attacking the Democrats and specifically Clinton while the GOP is starting to coalesce around Trump who has already started attacking Clinton and with Sanders/Weaver's words is a terrible idea for trying to stop Trump from becoming president, something even Sanders said he would stop (though I am not seeing it).

 

[PBY]

It comes down to Hillary supporters not wanting a contested convention. I think it's what the democratic party needs. It's good for political discourse, and pushing the platform further left. The DNC is almost as bad as the RNC. They have donors to protect, which is why you are seeing the calls for him to drop out.

Wait what.

Also this is what the DNC desperately needs to avoid this summer - the both sides are the same stuff.

 

[Prodigal Son]

There is no chance. Like -it doesn't exist. Also look at the polling in CA.

It's over.

He's behind by 9 points there on average, isn't he?

 

[Mael]

He's behind by 9 points there on average, isn't he?

If he wants to have a chance doesn't he need a margin of +30 or something?

 

[ivysaur12]

It comes down to Hillary supporters not wanting a contested convention. I think it's what the democratic party needs. It's good for political discourse, and pushing the platform further left. The DNC is almost as bad as the RNC. They have donors to protect, which is why you are seeing the calls for him to drop out.

It is not possible for a 2 person race to be contested, even in the Democratic primary. It wasn't a contested convention in 2008, and it won't be a contested convention now. As soon as Hillary achieve the delegates with supers, she will be the winner, since those supers will not switch to the person who is losing the popular vote and will vote for her on the first ballot.

 

[steveovig]

Back during the Ohio primaries, I contemplated voting for him but after the last month or so of news concerning him, I've totally soured on the guy. His diehard supporters put him on a pedestal and he has really done nothing but divide the party. I'm not totally convinced he is even qualified to be President. It's clear he isn't getting the nomination and all he is doing right now is further pushing his supporters away from Hillary, and indirectly supporting Trump.

 

[ugaboga232]

Personally, I disagree.

I've always believed most liberals only believe in progressive values only to the extent that they directly from them.

The fact that Sander's campaign was a grassroots movement is precisely why it's turned into the dumpster fire that we see today.

You can change most liberals to 99.9% of all humans given thats how we are wired.

 

[Balphon]

He's behind by 9 points there on average, isn't he?

Puts him about 40 points behind where he needs to be.

 

[eBay Huckster]

He's behind by 9 points there on average, isn't he?

average is actually C+14 at this point per 538's weights

 

[Mr Clutch]

I'm convinced.

There IS a chance.

 

[PBY]

There IS a chance.

Technically Rubio could jump back in the race too