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[Palculator]

I just don't understand this damn game. The ENTIRE point of it is anime titties and fanservice, and that was clear from the first real trailer of it. Even if you don't count the fanservice, they made this game so ridiculously specific to Japan, and it bombed even there. NOW they're trying to salvage it for the rest of the world? Why would they let Atlus even make this game in the first place if they were going to go and censor the shit out of it?

I think it's unfair to say this game doesn't have merit besides titillation. That doesn't even hold for games that are very openly about titillation like Senran Kagura. However, you are right in thinking this game's appeal is pretty niche and what they're doing doesn't make sense.

 

[Zolo]

It states that there are no narrative changes

Yeah. I can see why it was changed for the west, and it can be said it's for the better, but it's not true with what we know at this point.

 

[-Horizon-]

I'm not going to lie, when I was watching the newest Persona 5 trailer all I could think was how glad I was that it's not on a Nintendo console. They would censor the hell out of it. :/

As for #FE, I still haven't decided what I'm going to do. I've been looking forward to this game ever since it was originally revealed. The gameplay portion still looks fun, but I can't help shake the feeling that we're just getting the "made for TV" version, and not the release we should have. It's not even edited in a smart way, it's just...sloppy. I mean, covering the cleavage of a female boss with mysterious "black flame"? Honestly, they should have just inserted beams of light there, at least I'm used to that in the anime I watch (although that's no less frustrating).

It's a lose situation either way. I can pass on the game, and never play something I might enjoy, or purchase it and essentially support Nintendo in these changes. I guess I could wait and buy it used, but I doubt many copies of this game will be sold anyway, so finding one used might be difficult. Well that, and I never buy used games. I'm a collector, so if I purchase anything it's going to be new so I can be sure of its condition.

Needless to say, my hype for the game has dropped a lot, which is a damn shame. I know there will be a lot more edits than the ones currently known too.

Going from some of the posts in the P5 pv4 thread, quite a few people would've been ecstatic if some scenes were removed.

 

[Vena]

Going from some of the posts in the P5 pv4 thread, quite a few people would've been ecstatic if some scenes were removed.

I wouldn't say thats new, I feel like its happened with every on of their PVs for one thing or another as they either represent something poorly or oversexualize something.

I'd like to request that they remove the Squid Girl, though. What is she doing there!?

 

[-Horizon-]

I wouldn't say thats new, I feel like its happened with every on of their PVs for one thing or another as they either represent something poorly or oversexualize something.

I'd like to request that they remove the Squid Girl, though. What is she doing there!?

Being otaku bait of course.

 

[Vena]

Being otaku bait of course.

Kind of tone deaf... >.>

Especially when I think about the fact that a lot of the fans of said character are females and children.

 

[Zolo]

Oh right. This game comes with an artbook as well right? I expect there'll be similar changes in there as well.

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

I think it's unfair to say this game doesn't have merit besides titillation. That doesn't even hold for games that are very openly about titillation like Senran Kagura. However, you are right in thinking this game's appeal is pretty niche and what they're doing doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I exaggerate. It's not literally the entire point, but the titillation is a nice chunk of the appeal. There's little to no crossover appeal to people who don't like anime titty games, so why get rid of it? The majority of the people who would WANT this game, are people who either want anime titties, are okay with anime titties, or are willing to ignore anime titties if there's a good game underneath. It's no less obnoxiously anime if you censor some cleavage and swimsuits. And I say this as an anime fan.

This game lost at the dice rolling. I honestly truly question where the fuck Nintendo was coming from when they let Atlus do this game. How could they just hand Atlus money and say, "Go crazy." if they weren't going to stand by what they produced?

 

[-Horizon-]

Kind of tone deaf... >.>

Especially when I think about the fact that a lot of the fans of said character are females and children.

Just repeating what I saw in that thread. Though I always assumed (at least) some were saying it jokingly.

 

[Vena]

Just repeating what I saw in that thread. Though I always assumed (at least) some were saying it jokingly.

Oh no doubt but you know what they about comedy. It shares a bed with the truth.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I'm not saying all games are edited by Nintendo of America, but Persona has always skewed more towards the mature, particularly in their content and character designs, which I can't see NoA being okay with. They're already editing a boss in #FE, and I'm sure there will be more. I haven't play the game yet (obviously), so I could very well be wrong on that. I hope I am.

That's the thing, mature games are allowed on Nintendo systems... there is no realistic reason to believe P5 would be changed at all on a Nintendo system. NoA wouldn't have anything to do with that content. This is a Nintendo property. As is Xenoblade. As is Fatal Frame. As is Fire Emblem proper.

P5, no. Stella Glow (apparently), no. SMTIV, no. Basically, resign yourself to NoA ruining anything Nintendo is actively involved with, but at this point there is no reason to fear for other games.

Edit: Oh and everyone should go play Stella Glow. Its the best damn jRPG I've played in a long while (except XCX when I got to fly in a Skell, fuck all other games after that moment).

That is an srpg?

 

[Zolo]

Yeah, I exaggerate. It's not literally the entire point, but the titillation is a nice chunk of the appeal. There's little to no crossover appeal to people who don't like anime titty games, so why get rid of it? The majority of the people who would WANT this game, are people who either want anime titties, are okay with anime titties, or are willing to ignore anime titties if there's a good game underneath. It's no less obnoxiously anime if you censor some cleavage and swimsuits. And I say this as an anime fan.

Yeah. The story and dialogue I've seen doesn't really have anything that screams Atlus to me. I know apparently, the Devil Survivor team mainly made this game who seem to have the weakest writing of all the teams, but if you took out the FE characters and the battle system, this could just as easily be some other company's game.

This game lost at the dice rolling. I honestly truly question where the fuck Nintendo was coming from when they let Atlus do this game. How could they just hand Atlus money and say, "Go crazy." ?

Does Nintendo generally have a hands-off approach? It seemed the same with W101 and Bayonetta 2.

That said, I guess it does suck for them that from all their games, Atlus made what seems to be one of their least appealing games they made. It probably doesn't help that I think their general fanbase doesn't have as much of a presence on the Wii U.

 

[Palculator]

How could they just hand Atlus money and say, "Go crazy."

Honestly, that's kind of why I'm interested, lol. If it had just been a "crossover" in the sense that they had SMT sprites in Fire Emblem gameplay and a story that hamfists as many references to either it can into the narrative to flaunt relation to both, I wouldn't have been nearly as interested. Them "going crazy" is more fun, in my opinion.

I get the complaints by the people who would want the "traditional" crossover, and given Fates' success it would've probably had a bigger sales potential, but my reaction to that would've mostly been "neat."

if they weren't going to stand by what they produced?

And that's where it gets dumb, yes.

Just repeating what I saw in that thread. Though I always assumed (at least) some were saying it jokingly.

I refuse that one poster who saw one and a half second of a bikini and asked for censorship was serious, lol. No way.

 

[Vena]

That is an srpg?

Yes, it is. I misspoke. Go play it anyway.

 

[-Horizon-]

Oh no doubt but you know what they about comedy. It shares a bed with the truth.

I wouldn't know that saying...Nintendo censored it

Spoiler

ayyyy ;3

 

[flatearthpandas]

Yeah. The story and dialogue I've seen doesn't really have anything that screams Atlus to me. I know apparently, the Devil Survivor team mainly made this game who seem to have the weakest writing of all the teams, but if you took out the FE characters and the battle system, this could just as easily be some other company's game.


Does Nintendo generally have a hands-off approach? It seemed the same with W101 and Bayonetta 2.

That said, I guess it does suck for them that from all their games, Atlus made what seems to be one of their least appealing games they made. It probably doesn't help that I think their general fanbase doesn't have as much of a presence on the Wii U.

Whoa now.
Devil Survivor 1 is easily one of their best written games imo. Anyway, at this point it's like we're wandering off the topic of censorship to complain about the product itself which seems.... pointless to this thread. I assume most of the people disappointed by NoA's decisions here feel that way because they are interested in the game itself

 

[Zolo]

Devil Survivor 1 is easily one of their best written games imo.

Eh...it's okay, but I still feel it's one of the weaker outputs. I do appreciate that the Law side was more balanced than it is in the usual SMT games, though admittedly I still haven't gotten around to playing the 'extra day' yet.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I honestly truly question where the fuck Nintendo was coming from when they let Atlus do this game. How could they just hand Atlus money and say, "Go crazy." if they weren't going to stand by what they produced?

Nintendo DID stand by the game. They just felt it was necessary to change stuff in certain markets.

Anyway, Nintendo does this kind of thing all the time when working with external devs (or studios owned by Nintendo but run somewhat seperately.) The Wonderful 101. Xenoblade (both games). Bayonetta 2. Conker's Bad Fur Day. Sin and Punishment. Notice by the way how many of these games suck financially, and yet Nintendo keps funding them.

It's one of the things I really love about Nintendo. I think a lot of it comes from the fact that Nintendo's top management is largely comprosed of people who are game designers at heart (including the CEO until last summer). They fund a lot of insane ideas.

 

[chrono01]

That's the thing, mature games are allowed on Nintendo systems... there is no realistic reason to believe P5 would be changed at all on a Nintendo system. NoA wouldn't have anything to do with that content. This is a Nintendo property. As is Xenoblade. As is Fatal Frame. As is Fire Emblem proper.

P5, no. Stella Glow (apparently), no. SMTIV, no. Basically, resign yourself to NoA ruining anything Nintendo is actively involved with, but at this point there is no reason to fear for other games.

True enough. I take back what I said!

It's just me being paranoid where there's no reason for me to be paranoid. :/

 

[dakkumauji]

Nintendo DID stand by the game. They just felt it was necessary to change stuff in certain markets.

i'm rather looking forward to finding out what imaginary market nintendo had in mind for this

 

[Vena]

i'm rather looking forward to finding out what imaginary market nintendo had in mind for this

People who like really good RPGs?

 

[NeonZ]

Whoa now.
Devil Survivor 1 is easily one of their best written games imo. Anyway, at this point it's like we're wandering off the topic of censorship to complain about the product itself which seems.... pointless to this thread. I assume most of the people disappointed by NoA's decisions here feel that way because they are interested in the game itself

Devil Survivor 1's main writer (and only writer for the extra Overclocked scenarios) was Hazuki Yo(葉月&#38525, from the Growlanser series. IIRC, the director of the DS team also had worked there too. However, Yo Hazuki didn't work alongside the Devil Survivor team afterwards, aside from Overclocked itself. That's probably why even Devil Survivor 2 feels very different story-wise.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Devil Survivor 1's main writer (and only writer for the extra Overclocked scenarios) was Hazuki Yo(葉月&#38525, from the Growlanser series. IIRC, the director of the DS team also had worked there too. However, Yo Hazuki didn't work alongside the Devil Survivor team afterwards, aside from Overclocked itself. That's probably why even Devil Survivor 2 feels very different story-wise.

That sucks, but it explains a lot.

What's he doing now?

 

[NeonZ]

That sucks, but it explains a lot.

What's he doing now?

I actually couldn't find anything credited to him after Devil Survivor Overclocked.

Writing credits sometimes only seem to be listed in the in-game credit lists though, without any comprehensive online list, so I could be missing something (although I've checked Devil Survivor 2/BR and he wasn't there).

 

[Hubb]

People who like really good RPGs?

*and actually bought a Wii U. Not a very big number unfortunately.

 

[Palculator]

People who like really good RPGs?

These changes don't relate to its quality as an RPG, though. Not like cleavage negatively affected the gameplay.

 

[Eusis]

*and actually bought a Wii U. Not a very big number unfortunately.

Eh, probably quite a few do, they just expect most of them to be on 3DS, or have a PS4 to cover that.

 

[Hubb]

Eh, probably quite a few do, they just expect most of them to be on 3DS, or have a PS4 to cover that.

I'm just not kidding myself and how many Wii Us are actually out there in the wild, and in the hands of people who want this game. Granted I am probably selling my Wii U after finishing this game so maybe I am a bit biased.

 

[SolidSnakex]

People who like really good RPGs?

I think he means it in the sense of what they're doing with this game. Is it for more hardcore JRPG/otaku fans? In other words, people that are more likely to know what idols are. If so, then it makes no sense to remove this type of content as it's unlikely to be bothersome to them. Is it for more of "mainstream" Fire Emblem audience? Then why aren't they dubbing it? Fire Emblem doesn't even have an option to choose the Japanese dub if you wanted it.

The whole thing doesn't make sense. You can at least try to explain Fire Emblem's changes as them trying to make it more approachable to a larger audience. But that doesn't apply here as the lack of a dub would be far more damaging than the visual content.

This statement from Nintendo is a perfect example of the confused nature of this localization

“It was a priority to ensure the game feels familiar and appeals to longtime Atlus fans. Any changes made to the in-game content were due to varying requirements and regulations in the many different territories Nintendo distributes its products.”

They're letting people know that Atlus is handling the localization and pointing out how they want it to appeal to long time Atlus fans. So they're acknowledging the respect that JRPG fans have for the quality work that they do with localizations. But in the very next sentence they then talk about changes to content, something Atlus generally tries to avoid doing. So on one hand they want it to appeal to Atlus fans so much that they put them in charge of the localization, but on the other they won't let them handle the game like they would if it were their own.

 

[SenorArdilla]

Basically, they half-assed everything and solved nothing.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Eh, probably quite a few do, they just expect most of them to be on 3DS, or have a PS4 to cover that.

I don't think that's true. I'm a pretty dedicated J(S}RPG player who doesn't need to worry much about expenditure. There's all of 2 games on the Wii U that are interesting to me (this and XBX). That's fine for me but when you're looking at ~$180 per game effectively I doubt that many people are that interested.

Basically, they half-assed everything and solved nothing.

Well they probably avoided the kind of controversy they care about with what is probably ~0 effect on sales (maybe slighlty negative but sufficiently small as to be a rounding area). That's probably a win for them. They don't care if buyers love the product or find it just worth buying, its the same cash for them all the same.

 

[Aeana]

That sucks, but it explains a lot.

What's he doing now?

He was the scenario writer for this game.

 

[Astral Dog]

Yeah. The story and dialogue I've seen doesn't really have anything that screams Atlus to me. I know apparently, the Devil Survivor team mainly made this game who seem to have the weakest writing of all the teams, but if you took out the FE characters and the battle system, this could just as easily be some other company's game.


Does Nintendo generally have a hands-off approach? It seemed the same with W101 and Bayonetta 2.

That said, I guess it does suck for them that from all their games, Atlus made what seems to be one of their least appealing games they made. It probably doesn't help that I think their general fanbase doesn't have as much of a presence on the Wii U.

Nintendo worked on both Bayonetta 2 and Wonderful 101, later on Star Fox

 

[A.E Suggs]

I didn't want this game anyway even before it released in japan so i'm not losing anything.

 

[jj984jj]

He was the scenario writer for this game.

Plus between Devil Survivor and this he worked on Radiant Historia. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see a follow up to that.

 

[Shin-chan]

Censorship or not, that new costume instead of the bikini is fucking atrocious. What is Nintendo thinking? If they change everything mildly titilating to stuff as hideous as that the art style, which was one of the things I liked about the game since the first trailer, is just going to nose dive.

Is the costume in the game already and they just stuck it into this scene or has it been worked up for the western release?

 

[TheRook]

Censorship or not, that new costume instead of the bikini is fucking atrocious. What is Nintendo thinking? If they change everything mildly titilating to stuff as hideous as that the art style, which was one of the things I liked about the game since the first trailer, is just going to nose dive.

Is the costume in the game already and they just stuck it into this scene or has it been worked up for the western release?

I believe that the costume is for the west only. Check out the Japanese Artbook that was bundled in the limited edition, it shows in game renders for all the costumes(DLC included).

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[Kid Ying]

I just don't understand this damn game. The ENTIRE point of it is anime titties and fanservice, and that was clear from the first real trailer of it. Even if you don't count the fanservice, they made this game so ridiculously specific to Japan, and it bombed even there. NOW they're trying to salvage it for the rest of the world? Why would they let Atlus even make this game in the first place if they were going to go and censor the shit out of it?

If they'd just made a straight FExSMT crossover there never would have been this problem, and it would've had a ton more sales potential in the US. I don't get it. I feel like Atlus made this as a troll and then blew the money on cocaine

That's not the point of the game at all. Not even liking the idol culture is necessary to like the game. It's just its premise, but the game is much more about realization and working hard. The fanservice in this game is so minimal that anyone that would buy this game expecting to see some panties and tits would be severely disappointed.

 

[Shin-chan]

I believe that the costume is for the west only. Check out the Japanese Artbook that was bundled in the limited edition, it shows in game renders for all the costumes(DLC included).

Page 1-2

Page 3-4

Well that's terrible. Whoever is approving these needs to be talked to.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Maybe they are targeting the family audience that likes jrpgs, Japanese idols and owns a Wii U.

 

[E_Darkness]

The market of Atlus RPG fans, who only play games with Japanese dub with subtitles, Fire Emblem fans AND own a WiiU. These changes are still baffling. It isn't like this going to bring more people to buy this already niche game. The people buying this game are probably already set in stone and know who they are. If this is what Nintendo wants to spend their localisation budget on then eh.

Maybe they'll edit all the idols out and make it a real Shin Megami Tensei Game!

Spoiler

/s

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I just don't understand this damn game. The ENTIRE point of it is anime titties and fanservice, and that was clear from the first real trailer of it.

Yeah, no. No it wasn't.

It looks like a strong RPG with some mild smt/persona/FE influence in most things. That's what applied to me from what I've seen. Not that I could see some anime boobs.

 

[Owlowiscious]

The idol costume reminds me of korean idol outfits (and maybe what I saw in live action sailor moon) so I don't think it's bad, I don't like the blue star make up on her face.

I still dislike the changes because they are changes.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

If they'd just made a straight FExSMT crossover there never would have been this problem, and it would've had a ton more sales potential in the US. I don't get it. I feel like Atlus made this as a troll and then blew the money on cocaine

Heh, I used to think of this possibility. That was before interviews came up that confirmed that the Nintendo leads were the ones who primarily pushed #FE into its current direction away from the direct cross-over SRPG it was first envisioned to be.

 

[adroit]

Heh, I used to think of this possibility. That was before interviews came up that confirmed that the Nintendo leads were the ones who primarily pushed #FE into its current direction away from the direct cross-over SRPG it was first envisioned to be.

Is there any analysis on why the game sold so badly in Japan? Could Nintendo's interference influence have had something to do with it or was the game destined to sell poorly no matter what?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Is there any analysis on why the game sold so badly in Japan? Could Nintendo's interference influence have had something to do with it or was the game destined to sell poorly no matter what?

The WiiU has not sold well. And this game is one of about two RPGs on the system. It would have taken something a lot less bizarre than this to sell well.

 

[NeonZ]

Heh, I used to think of this possibility. That was before interviews came up that confirmed that the Nintendo leads were the ones who primarily pushed #FE into its current direction away from the direct cross-over SRPG it was first envisioned to be.

Didn't they just push Atlus towards letting them have freedom to do the best Atlus-style RPG that they could rather than imposing rules and limitations regarding the usage of the FE franchise? It's still Atlus' staff that went in this specific direction (entertainment industry focus).

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Didn't they just push Atlus towards letting them have freedom to do the best Atlus-style RPG that they could rather than imposing rules and limitations regarding the usage of the FE franchise? It's still Atlus' staff that went in this specific direction (entertainment industry focus).

I was misremembering: you're right that Atlus was the first push for "entertainment," but Nintendo involvement made it more about the music than anything.

Baseless rumors. We have an interview from the developers themselves stating the progression went like this:

1. SMT X FE cross-over SRPG
2. Atlus's Shinjiro Takada (producer) wants it to be an RPG with modern drama elements.
3. Atlus's Mitsuru Hirata (chief director) wants it to be an RPG with the modern drama elements to reflect the entertainment industry.
4. Nintendo's Kaori Ando (director) wants it to be an RPG with the entertainment industry elements to represent the music industry, and to contact people who don't typically make game music.

Because of Nintendo having a director and producer in lead positions for this project, they were pretty hands-on and probably as involved in its direction as Atlus was.

 

[Astral Dog]

*and actually bought a Wii U. Not a very big number unfortunately.

its just something to diversify the library a bit, maybe they didnt actually thought Atlus would come with this specific idea but they just rolled with it.

i mean if they just dedicated themselves to the genres that sell well on Wii U (platformers) it would be even worse of a backlash for the only publisher of the system. just that they didnt handle this game particularly well

 

[sturgboski]

Digital Trends has recently published this story.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/tokyo-mirage-sessions-fe-sensorship/

OK so I watched that video and man, the west looks way worse. The censorship flames look atrocious. Like when they play showgirls on cable TV levels of bad censorship.