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[John Harker]

This thread is embarrassing.

I also don't even understand.
Didn't the last Battlefield game have a black guy on the cover too? Why are people pretend freaking out?

 

[Sotha_Sil]

We want to delve into some of the unknowns of World War One. Maybe people don’t know that this person fought or that person fought, that this army was involved. We’re stretching out and bringing all those stories into the game

This is a fantastic answer. I love reading lesser known WW trivia bits. It's not about pandering to minorities or being PC. I can't call a Battlefield game educational, but it can at least get people interested in the topic to do some real research. That's a noble goal for a video game.

 

[Varth]

Please stop pretending this is a racial only matter. Many european users here are Just perplexed at using US troops for depicting WWI.

 

[sflufan]

came in at the end of the Second World War, albeit with a large influence.

I would HARDLY call entering the Second World War in earnest in 1942 coming in "at the end".

 

[Regret Truth]

This should be added to the opening post. More information on who the Harlem Hellfighters were. Was originally posted in the BF1 reveal thread.

http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/world-war-i-history/videos/the-harlem-hellfighters

Thanks for the link. Amazing story.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Is it wrong or right that I never noticed the guy on the cover was black?

 

[old manatee]

It's not pandering, at least not obviously so. Why can't we just have a black main character without the motives of the devs being questioned?

Pandering to who? People who accept that HISTORY is a real thing? smh

It's turning a real war into a juvenile power fantasy. It's pandering. This one happens to be pandering to a larger group than previous Battlefield games, and for that I applaud it.

 

[Zekes!]

The "why is a black dude on the cover" question in that interview is funny. Like that question would ever be asked if it was some white guy gracing the cover as usual

 

[TheJLC]

The "why is a black dude on the cover" question in that interview is funny. Like that question would ever be asked if it was some white guy gracing the cover as usual

Lol yup.

 

[potatohead]

This thread is embarrassing.

I also don't even understand.
Didn't the last Battlefield game have a black guy on the cover too? Why are people pretend freaking out?

You even play black characters in BF Vietnam, random choosing

Completely non-descript, but you random between a white or black person if you play as USA team.

The "why is a black dude on the cover" question in that interview is funny. Like that question would ever be asked if it was some white guy gracing the cover as usual

I like that they asked it though.

I hope it was without malice.

But I think it's a good idea to recognize broadly that we can have non-white people on game covers.

 

[Klyka]

It turns my stomach. Just flat out the most offensive game I've ever seen.

I can name family members that died in this conflict, wept at the pictures and accounts of the dead and maimed that experienced this hell, was taught all the horrors of it from primary school, through my whole life, it's only ever been a symbol of the folly of war, the worst, most black and shameful era of British and European history. I've been to the actual battlefields and mass graves across Europe, held the minutes silence without fail every rememberence day my entire life, for as long as I could understand the meaning of it.

There was no glory in this war. No thrilling action or daring do, no heroes and villains, this was mass murder, a scar on the history of our species, and every single person involved in it was a victim.

This trailer, the entire concept of this game, makes me feel physically sick, and just so fucking angry.

How fucking dare anyone make a game like this about the Harlem Hellfighters.

I don't know what's worse, the sick fucking emotionless, greedy cunts that would seriously exploit this horror of an industrialised massacre, or the ignorant, soulless bastards that will give them money and enjoy it.

Anyone involved in this, or seriously think of buying this, should be ashamed of themselves.

it's a videogame

 

[Varth]

The "why is a black dude on the cover" question in that interview is funny. Like that question would ever be asked if it was some white guy gracing the cover as usual

If it was the usual USA white guy you can bet there would be MANY eyebrows raised this side of the Atlantic.

 

[Deadbeat]

The "why is a black dude on the cover" question in that interview is funny. Like that question would ever be asked if it was some white guy gracing the cover as usual

Every other battlefield game they had generic soldier with no real discernible background except 'merica.

Now they still put an american on the cover, which is funny nonetheless. But the dude has a grounded history.

 

[jakonovski]

They should've put the Beduin woman on the cover and be done with it. It would've dealt with everything. But for US companies' marketing departments diversity means American, so it cannot be.

 

[Varth]

They should've put the Beduin woman on the cover and be done with it. It would've dealt with everything. But for US companies' marketing departments diversity means American, so it cannot be.

Yep. All the more annoying that a euro based dev is lending itself to that kind of history-bending.

 

[Wulfram]

Is he only on the cover of pre-order copies, since they're the ones that'll have the DLC? Or is this guy seperate from the DLC

It'd be annoying to have Sir Not Appearing In This Game on the cover if you didn't have the DLC.

 

[soundscream]

The should redo a pearl harbor game and put a British Indian on the front cover, that would be so much more representative of the going-ons in than conflict than this depiction of WW1, Crazy.

Since you previously questioned the quality of the U.S. education system, would you possibly be able to educate me as to who this British Indian was at pearl harbor?

 

[TacticalHotdog]

They should've put the Beduin woman on the cover and be done with it. It would've dealt with everything. But for US companies' marketing departments diversity means American, so it cannot be.

I would have settled for a Gurkha Rifleman

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Glad to see dices comment. Lol at op. Wtf

 

[Darryl M R]

This is a non-issue,

 

[GodofWine]

I'm embarrassed that this discussion exists on the front page of NeoGaf.

Seriously, because of this game millions of people will learn about the Hell Fighters, this is commendable.

 

[SerTapTap]

The only complaint I have about the cover is their reveal trailer doesn't even show this guy or use the key art at all. But it's BF so it'd make sense they'd make a trailer that's pretty much just multiplayer "wowee" shots. And they made a figure of him so they can't be too reluctant, it just struck me as a little weird.

I don't really buy the anti-american complaints. The US avoided the war but it's undeniable they played a major role after being included. They're not obligated to only depict the early years of the war.

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

Badass cover, can't find the problem.

 

[Rockyrock]

White guy on cover: "OMG look another white protagonist on the cover, how original! /sarcasm"

ANY other race/gender on cover: "Look how hard they're trying to be diverse lol"

You're NEVER going to win with this subject.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I'm embarrassed that this discussion exists on the front page of NeoGaf.

Seriously, because of this game millions of people will learn about the Hell Fighters, this is commendable.

Are you really surprised though? This is the same board that produced the amazing threads as the GTA:SA reveal and the Mafia 3 reveal. Any time there's a black guy on a cover, in a game, or in any sort of main role there's a thread about it

 

[Daft Punk]

As a black person, this thread is an absolute dumpster fire.

 

[Messofanego]

If it was the usual USA white guy you can bet there would be MANY eyebrows raised this side of the Atlantic.

No, it wouldn't. Just you.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Yep. All the more annoying that a euro based dev is lending itself to that kind of history-bending.

EA makes the decisions, I bet the guideline said it had to be about americans. this being WWI, the harlem hellfighters were the more viable choice, atleast that's what I think happened.

 

[Snowybreak]

All I can say is that I'm actually quite happy that they're going with depicting a rather small portion of one of the largest and most complex wars in history. Look, for those of you taking issue with an American being portrayed on the cover, ask yourselves this: If random white guy #3946 had been portrayed without any sort of distinguishing marks that would have shown his country, would you be as up in arms as you are about someone who is black and from a mostly untold part of the war (which excites me because I really wanna know more about them now) who just happens to be American? Not to call everyone against this choice racist, but the fact is that this group is historically significant, and just because the primary conflict was European does not for a god damn second mean that every piece of media should be about the French, British, Germans, Russians or Austrians. I mean fuck, I'd love it if there was more emphasis on what was happening with the Serbs!

 

[Furyous]

Hmmm... I really don't think these questions are on anyone's mind. Judging by the responses so far to this thread, I think the real question looming in the air is "why would anybody feel like this?"

This is an extremely strange way to frame a conversation, because anybody who has the nerve to say this is "pandering" should probably pack up from society and take a long, reflective camping trip. Including a black guy is not pandering. What kind of accusation is that? Even if somebody did feel that way, how would you even qualify those feelings? You really can't, because it's preposterous. Basically, you are admitting that black representation is abnormal enough to you that you have a strong and inquisitive reaction against it and demand it must be validated somehow.

As if you need to justify a black person.

I don't believe anyone is "afraid" to have this discussion. This is not a discussion. This is just weird. Especially since OP doesn't seem to feel this way themselves. Why create a proverbial soap box for such a bizarre perspective that nobody, at least around here, seems to have? Are you trying to coax these people out and help them process their internalized racism? Maybe this is a self-help thread.

^^ All of this sums up my perspective. The same people that use words like outrage culture sure are hurt that a developer put a black man on a videogame cover. Attacking the developer's decision to give players another perspective play out of 'Merica DUDEBRO is offensive considering the contributions of many different ethnic hertitages towards our military success.

I hope the devs give the Harlem Hellfighters a better historic sendoff than their own country gave them iwth this alternate take.

Does Interficium feel the same way about WW2, Vietnam, and any other FPS settings? These are war games where one character dies and a bunch of others live. The backgrounds around them are excellent discussion areas in general conversation. However, framing a game as awful because it features the harlem hellfighters in WW1 without any grievances towards any WW1 game in the past comes as a bit "timely". I find it it interesting that this is the narrative now when countless atrocities were committed during videogames set around wars in the past yet none of them received this "concentrated public disagreement" from certain gamers.

 

[thefil]

I just wish they weren't featuring Americans so prominently. Unlike WW2, WW1 was already going to be won before America joined, and frankly Europe paid so much more for the war in wealth and blood. Any other party would be preferred - British, French, German, Belgian, Ottoman, Serbian, Arabic. I think it *is* pandering, not to racial diversity (many races fought in the war outside the American army), but to American exceptionalism and ethnocentrism.

 

[Kinyou]

No, it wouldn't. Just you.

Um okay? I would actually find it far more weird to put a white american on the cover. With the Hellfighters you have at least the noble goal to finally give them recognition.

 

[Varth]

No, it wouldn't. Just you.

Even Just looking here this doesnt seem to be the case. Keep trying to go for the "you're all closet racists!!!" angle though.

 

[cartographer]

White guy on cover: "OMG look another white protagonist on the cover, how original! /sarcasm"

ANY other race/gender on cover: "Look how hard they're trying to be diverse lol"

You're NEVER going to win with this subject.

You win by not validating people that complain about diverse representation.

 

[Messofanego]

I wouldn't be surprised if sales of Max Brooks' graphic novel The Harlem Hellfighters go way up. Read it, it's great.

 

[air jordans for dogs]

How about having the main characters be french/brit/german/russian or even colony soldiers? It's disgusting how they are going to focus on a small squad that joined in at the tail end of the war, ugh... It always has to be about americans..

 

[soundscream]

I just wish they weren't featuring Americans so prominently. Unlike WW2, WW1 was already going to be won before America joined, and frankly Europe paid so much more for the war in wealth and blood. Any other party would be preferred - British, French, German, Belgian, Ottoman, Syrian, Arabic. I think it *is* pandering, not to racial diversity (many races fought in the war outside the American army), but to American exceptionalism and ethnocentrism.

How can you say that when you look at the situation and history of the the hellfighters? It's a huge black eye for America.

 

[jakonovski]

This won't be the historical Hellfighters, this is diversity washed marketing to pander to modern progressive American sensibilities. I'll be very surprised if there's any real effort to depict the racism they had to suffer through.

 

[Varth]

How about having the main characters be french/brit/german/russian or even colony soldiers? It's disgusting how they are going to focus on a small squad that joined in at the tail end of the war, ugh... It always has to be about americans..

You're racists. And also don't exist. /s

 

[Death Metalist]

I'm just glad that a developer for once is doing something without being forced to do it after people talk about it, which to me diminishes the overall meaning of what a developer does if he's forced to do it after revealing the initial product. At the same time I guess talking about it is the only way to make the changes that some people care about(for me, just make a good game and I'm alright).

This thread though, jeez.

 

[thefil]

How can you say that when you look at the situation and history of the the hellfighters? It's a huge black eye for America.

I'm not saying they did not suffer or are not the most worthy American party to be featured. I'm just saying the most disappointing thing to me is that this extremely Non-American conflict has to be focused on the American experience, like every other military shooter.

They probably are a black eye for America! And a lot of history should be about examining WW1 from the perspective of America. But this is a one-off representation of a war focussing on a minor party (America, not the hell fighters) because they are a major consumer force (that's what it feels like).

You could just as easily focus on Ataturk as an important and undertold story of the war and it would feel more right to me.

Maybe the Hellfighters will just be one campaign of many, with no greater weight, and it won't be a problem.

 

[soundscream]

This won't be the historical Hellfighters, this is diversity washed marketing to pander to modern progressive American sensibilities. I'll be very surprised if there's any real effort to depict the racism they had to suffer through.

And you know this to be fact?

 

[jakonovski]

And you know this to be fact?

Obviously not, I'm making a prediction. Like I said I will be surprised if I'm wrong.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Is it pandering? Seriously? Holy crap..

 

[Htown]

I'm not saying they did not suffer or are not the most worthy American party to be featured. I'm just saying the most disappointing thing to me is that this extremely Non-American conflict has to be focused on the American experience, like every other military shooter.

They probably are a black eye for America! And a lot of history should be about examining WW1 from the perspective of America. But this is a one-off representation of a war focussing on a minor party (America, not the hell fighters) because they are a major consumer force (that's what it feels like).

You could just as easily focus on Ataturk as an important and undertold story of the war and it would feel more right to me.

Maybe the Hellfighters wool just be one campaign of many, with no greater weight, and it won't be a problem.

Why would you assume it's only focusing on America? DICE said (and it's written in the OP) that the Bedouin woman from the trailer is playable in the single player campaign. Clearly the campaign is going to jump from one point of view to another, as is common in military shooters.

edit:

GamesBeat: The single-player campaign story might have a challenge taking a single soldier around the world, right?

Berlin: Our single-player will focus on different stories and different personalities across the world.

 

[thefil]

Why would you assume it's only focusing on America? DICE said (and it's written in the OP) that the Bedouin woman from the trailer is playable in the single player campaign. Clearly the campaign is going to jump from one point of view to another, as is common in military shooters.

I know it's not only about them. It just sucks that they have to be the most favoured party. It's hard to feel like this isn't just "American experience is the most important".

 

[soundscream]

I'm not saying they did not suffer or are not the most worthy American party to be featured. I'm just saying the most disappointing thing to me is that this extremely Non-American conflict has to be focused on the American experience, like every other military shooter.

They probably are a black eye for America! And a lot of history should be about examining WW1 from the perspective of America. But this is a one-off representation of a war focussing on a minor party (America, not the hell fighters) because they are a major consumer force (that's what it feels like).

You could just as easily focus on Ataturk as an important and undertold story of the war and it would feel more right to me.

Maybe the Hellfighters will just be one campaign of many, with no greater weight, and it won't be a problem.

These 2 statements show that you haven't even bothered to look into anything regarding this issue.

 

[ultrazilla]

I can't believe this thread is even a thing. You can't have a game starring black characters without a "motive". Unbelievable

My white wonder bread cracker ass is also shaking his head in disbelief. I love that Dice is showing diversity in the game. Any other time, we'd have a thousand threads asking why there's no black people, no women, etc. Now we have them in a game and now it's pandering or tokenism? Unbelievable.

 

[jediyoshi]

This won't be the historical Hellfighters, this is diversity washed marketing to pander to modern progressive American sensibilities.

So which pandering do you personally prefer? What pandering do you think was the best decision? What pandering would appeal to your demographic?

 

[Surface of Me]

Please stop pretending this is a racial only matter. Many european users here are Just perplexed at using US troops for depicting WWI.

Perhaps you should look at a history book, as there were US troops in WW1.

Going into it more, your complaints seem to be "we arent getting the recognition we deserve". Despite, history being on your side and the majority of people knowing the US entered the war very late. You're bitching about not being on a video game cover, when to the group of people you want to take it away from, it might be (unfortunately) one of the largest recognition's they have ever gotten.