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[rhandino]

this whole protect the pristine image of fire emblem is a silly point considering they are not marketing this as a fire emblem game whatsoever

Except they are? The re-reveal and E3 trailers made it clear that the project was the STM x Fire Emblem and the First Beats trailers have the logo at the start and ending of the trailer showing that #FE means Fire Emblem.

I have an idea for a target market: women. It's a thought that crossed my mind when I saw this game and considering how Nintendo has been subtly shifting in that direction since Animal Crossing and how games like Persona have captured a large female audience, I think it makes some sort of sense for this game to exist.

Ummm, I was kind of thinking something like this and it actually makes a lot of sense considering how a lot of the changes being made to their latest games are mostly targeted to avoid exploitation of young women.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

For #FE? Seems optimistic. Using anecodtal evidence anyway: I haven't really seen any Fire Emblem fans really excited for the game. Most people I know that generally buy anime/jrpg type games don't seem particularly enthused for the game. Then, of course, there's the obvious fact it's on the Wii U when most fans of this type of game tend to be more on portables, sony machines, or even PC these days.

I am a fire emblem, persona, and SMT fan that was super excited until nintendo ditched dubbing it.

I just dont bother with story based games without a dub anymore, skipped nights of azure as well. All of the changes just make deciding to skip it even easier

 

[Palculator]

Ummm, I was kind of thinking something like this and it actually makes a lot of sense considering how a lot of the changes being made to their latest games are mostly targeted to avoid exploitation of young women.

The Fire Emblem changes affect males and adult women as well, so did the Fundoshi censorship in Xenoblade X, neither does the removal of the breast slider relate to the age of your character and Fatal Frame V has only one character who is under 18 with the other still being affected by censorship. We've been over this, they aren't mostly focused on that and they already aged up the characters to be at least 18.

And again: Persona has captured that "large female audience" without the need for censorship.

 

[rhandino]

And again: Persona has captured that "large female audience" without the need for censorship.

Fire Emblem also has a very big female audience and is growing more than ever even with the "censorship" and localization changes of Awakening and Fates.

 

[Zolo]

Going with the sales argument doesn't seem to be much use to me honestly. Changes or not, this game's never been poised to sell well in the west. The changes help them avoid the potential fallback for a blog popping up about the game with it reaching headlines all over the web which they'd like to avoid with a game that feels like it's only getting localized out of obligation.

 

[Palculator]

Fire Emblem also has a very big female audience and is growing more than ever even with the "censorship" and localization changes of Awakening and Fates.

I never said it made it shrink. All you're doing is pointing out how irrelevant it is to the "big female audience" because both franchises that indulge in fanservice and those that get butchered for it can have it. I've consistently maintained none of these changes affect the actual sales numbers in any meaningful way and just serve to be a nuisance Nintendo of America enforces -- this only supports that view.

By the way: I know plenty of women who love Persona so intuitively that statement is true, but any data on the trend of Persona having a "large female audience" and Fire Emblem having one that grows "more than ever"? Would love to have some data.

Going with the sales argument doesn't seem to be much use to me honestly. Changes or not, this game's never been poised to sell well in the west. The changes help them avoid the potential fallback for a blog popping up about the game with it reaching headlines all over the web which they'd like to avoid with a game that feels like it's only getting localized out of obligation.

Yeah. Honestly makes even less sense if we're concerned about a subset of the buyers, which are going to be even less important than the overall amount of buyers.

 

[dakkumauji]

Fire Emblem also has a very big female audience and is growing more than ever even with the "censorship" and localization changes of Awakening and Fates.

there's no evidence that all the censorship and localization changes in any which way lead to more female fans of the series

 

[Zolo]

For Persona at least, there was this data which noted there was a 4:6 gender ratio in favor of women for the first Persona 3 movie: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/11/28/persona-3-movie-1-rather-well-opening-weekend/

That also wouldn't surprise me since a lot of the side material like the manga and such seemed like the style you expect to appeal to women more giving off the impression females also took up a good chunk of the audience that buys a lot of merchandise for the series.

 

[Palculator]

For Persona at least, there was this data which noted there was a 4:6 gender ratio in favor of women for the first Persona 3 movie: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/11/28/persona-3-movie-1-rather-well-opening-weekend/

That also wouldn't surprise me since a lot of the side material like the manga and such seemed like the style you expect to appeal to women more giving off the impression females also took up a good chunk of the audience that buys a lot of merchandise for the series.

Yeah, I'm not surprised either and that's cool. Like I said, I know from first hand experience that women like Persona. I'd just like to see at least some data to support such claims besides my anecdotal experience -- thanks!

 

[dakkumauji]

That also wouldn't surprise me since a lot of the side material like the manga and such seemed like the style you expect to appeal to women more giving off the impression females also took up a good chunk of the audience that buys a lot of merchandise for the series.

that seems to be the common thing for most jrpg series
more females are willing to buy the additional merchandise to a series than compared to males

I believe this is best shown in the gender ratio for Tales Festivals where its mostly females attending

 

[Zolo]

that seems to be the common thing for most jrpg series
more females are willing to buy the additional merchandise to a series than compared to males

I believe this is best shown in the gender ratio for Tales Festivals where its mostly females attending

I don't think it's common for most jrpg series, especially your average vita rpg that most seem to associate with the most type of rpg released these days. It just shows that the audience is there for those willing to appeal to the demographic. Without even going into the gameplay, I can see how Tales/FE/Persona has character designs and characters in general that appeal to a female audience.

 

[-Horizon-]

If Nintendo is worried about random blog and forum posts making a big deal about swimsuits and hot springs, they need to restart thinking their priorities.

 

[TheRook]

They don't care, if they did then something would have been done ages ago.

I think at this point we will have to come to terms that Nintendo will do everything in their power to change/alter anything that might incriminate them in the future.

I didn't like it when KoeiTecmo caved in to the media's fanning the flames of how women should be represented in games, which caused them to only release "That game" in Asian Territories. But Nintendo has been doing this for a long time now, and seeing that this is a actual issue now...I think it's unrealistic for me as a consumer to believe that things are going to change.

I don't know how many others feel this way but, I believe these publishers should stand by their games and by the developers vision of their work. I want to play these games the way the Developer made them...and I think I "should" be entitled to at least that much...but apparently not. So unless I pickup learning how to read Japanese and invest in importing my games from now on...I'm never going to get that out of Nintendo or other publishers for that matter.

there was a point to this....oh right. Have much lower expectations when it comes to Japanese games it seems...especially if Nintendo has anything to do with it. I'm not going to advocate people not to buy these games because they won't even localize them at all anymore if that happens. They just want to protect themselves from people who will twist this stuff against them...and looking at it that way...it makes sense of a lot of the changes. It's just unfortunate we as the consumer can't have both.

 

[Zolo]

I think at this point we will have to come to terms that Nintendo will do everything in their power to change/alter anything that might incriminate them in the future.

And this is an important point for future references. I don't even mean it in a negative way. It's just that when Nintendo's responsible for funding or publishing a game in the future, one needs to keep a good idea of what will change and to what extent; not if it'll happen in the first place. It'll probably be a while for this conversation to happen again for another game since I don't think they have any other games coming up that fall under the issues this game is having for NoA, but I'm sure it'll come up for the next Fire Emblem again.

 

[bman94]

It was, Nintendo Life for whatever reason misread the statement. And the changes simply don't fit what Atlus has done in the past while they perfectly fit what Nintendo has done.

Here's the dungeon that they refer to in the OP

Oh come on, that's not even mildly risque.

 

[Portugeezer]

Arbitrary number changes for the sake of it never make sense, but whatever makes Nintendo feel better.

 

[Zolo]

For what it's worth, I think the problem with that dungeon seemed to be the story overall along with the swimsuits. I'm admittedly not that familiar, but the original was gravure modelling which I don't think Nintendo wanted to give the impression that they endorsed or approved of.

 

[thumb]

Oh come on, that's not even mildly risque.

With the exception of the age change, I'm not sure their intent is to remove content that is scandalous, but instead to tone down instances of female sexualization. This is because, in Western markets, there's a growing consciousness about how women have been portrayed in video games. This is slowly changing people's reaction to these images, which means that localization efforts may modify games to reflect these market differences.

But keep in mind, most localization changes are made in cooperation with the original developers. They're not just handed down from above without input.

With all of that said, I have mixed feelings about these changes.

 

[Zolo]

But keep in mind, most localization changes are made in cooperation with the original developers. They're not just handed down from above without input.

I haven't checked if it's the case with the photographer either, but they also had different lines recorded implying they worked on these changes while still in development.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

But keep in mind, most localization changes are made in cooperation with the original developers. They're not just handed down from above without input.

Not only this, but many if not most localization companies don't actually have the capability to change the game itself directly - they send their changes to the original developer who then implements everything. Of course, this isn't true of companies that localize in-house (like Nintendo).

 

[bman94]

With the exception of the age change, I'm not sure their intent is to remove content that is scandalous, but instead to tone down instances of female sexualization. This is because, in Western markets, there's a growing consciousness about how women have been portrayed in video games. This is slowly changing people's reaction to these images, which means that localization efforts may modify games to reflect these market differences.

But keep in mind, most localization changes are made in cooperation with the original developers. They're not just handed down from above without input.

With all of that said, I have mixed feelings about these changes.

Sexual portrayal of Women is not just in video games which Is why I don't understand why video games needs to be regulated for this type of stuff. Just speaking realistically, If I got to the beach I expect women to be in bikinis, especially if its hot. You don't see in TV shows, music videos or movies women (or men for that matter) being fully clothed at the beach. This is a very one-sided argument since technically men are sexualized in games all the time. And quite frankly if the developers are fine with this that just gives them pre-judgements on american society.

 

[Tohsaka]

With the exception of the age change, I'm not sure their intent is to remove content that is scandalous, but instead to tone down instances of female sexualization. This is because, in Western markets, there's a growing consciousness about how women have been portrayed in video games. This is slowly changing people's reaction to these images, which means that localization efforts may modify games to reflect these market differences.

But keep in mind, most localization changes are made in cooperation with the original developers. They're not just handed down from above without input.

With all of that said, I have mixed feelings about these changes.

It's not like the developers can refuse to make the changes, they really have no say in it. The publisher calls the shots. In addition, it's only Nintendo that consistently makes these sorts of changes in the games they publish. The vast majority of Japanese games that release in the west do not get censored these days.

 

[Nyoro SF]

But keep in mind, most localization changes are made in cooperation with the original developers. They're not just handed down from above without input.

Don't put too much stock in the "talked to original developers" line, because a developer is not going to impede the release of a game in another market on creative whims. There's way too much money and responsibility on the line for that from the publisher angle.

From many past interviews I've read from other localizers, Japanese developers are more than happy to make changes and alterations (not just censorship, but anything) in games to speed up releases in other markets; it's not their territory and they don't understand the foreign market that is the responsibility of the localizer to interpret and release in. So if the localizer says "short skirts are a no-go in America" or "I need you to double the size of this text box" then they will comply.

 

[thumb]

Sexual portrayal of Women is not just in video games which Is why I don't understand why video games needs to be regulated for this type of stuff. Just speaking realistically, If I got to the beach I expect women to be in bikinis, especially if its hot. You don't see in TV shows, music videos or movies women (or men for that matter) being fully clothed at the beach. This is a very one-sided argument since technically men are sexualized in games all the time. And quite frankly if the developers are fine with this that just gives them pre-judgements on american society.

No one that's a legitimate part of this debate is calling for games to be *regulated* with regard to female sexualization. And you're right: lots of media sexualize women. Men too, but women tend to receive more of it. And video games have a particullarly egregious history of treating women as objects to oogle and little else. That's changing, but one reason it's changing is people are waking up and lookig around.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Being weird prudes by removing bikinis and altering a middle-aged woman's position on a couch is a Nintendo problem, not something to wake up to. Sorry thumb, but it's true.

Nintendo wasn't even like this for a long time either, it's them regressing, not anyone's opinion changing.

 

[thumb]

Don't put too much stock in the "talked to original developers" line, because a developer is not going to impede the release of a game in another market on creative whims. There's way too much money and responsibility on the line for that from the publisher angle.

From many past interviews I've read from other localizers, Japanese developers are more than happy to make changes and alterations (not just censorship, but anything) in games to speed up releases in other markets; it's not their territory and they don't understand the foreign market that is the responsibility of the localizer to interpret and release in. So if the localizer says "short skirts are a no-go in America" or "I need you to double the size of this text box" then they will comply.

But that's still an assumption you're making about this particular instance. The developers in this case may have supported the changes. For all you know, the only reason some things were in the game in the first place (bikini dungeon, hot sprigs DLC) was to pander to the Japanese market! Not because it was a core part of their artisitic vision.

 

[bishopcruz]

Don't put too much stock in the "talked to original developers" line, because a developer is not going to impede the release of a game in another market on creative whims. There's way too much money and responsibility on the line for that from the publisher angle.

From many past interviews I've read from other localizers, Japanese developers are more than happy to make changes and alterations (not just censorship, but anything) in games to speed up releases in other markets; it's not their territory and they don't understand the foreign market that is the responsibility of the localizer to interpret and release in. So if the localizer says "short skirts are a no-go in America" or "I need you to double the size of this text box" then they will comply.

And beyond that, "The original developers were involved." isn't an argument. It says nothing about the merits of the change. It says nothing about why they agreed. It honestly says nothing at all and adds nothing of value to the conversation. They agreed to it. So what? It can still be stupid.

Not to mention that argument can be used for 99% of the localizations out there, good or bad because generally speaking the original team is almost always involved in some of the programming work. I'm sure Atlus Japan was totally involved in the horrible localization of Persona 1, where character races were changed. That doesn't make it good.

But that's still an assumption you're making about this particular instance. The developers in this case may have supported the changes. For all you know, the only reason some things were in the game in the first place (bikini dungeon, hot sprigs DLC) was to pander to the Japanese market! Not because it was a core part of their artisitic vision.

Whether or not the developers supported something or not speaks nothing to the quality of the change. And since we have no way of knowing one way or another, it's a good thing that it's irrelevant.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Fanservice in most Japanese RPGs these days is not an artistic choice. It's a calculated business decision to attract the Japanese otaku demographic. Just like toning it down to try to attract a more general RPG audience outside of Japan is a business decision.

The vast majority of Japanese games that release in the west do not get censored these days.

Because it's an extra expense and most Japanese localization companies are running on razor-thin margins so they'll pretty much only censor stuff if they have to in order to avoid an AO rating (like Atlus did with Dungeon Travelers 2). And well, "Obscure company you've never heard of releases porn game for handheld system you've never heard of" isn't news the way that "Family friendly Nintendo releases game for pedophiles" would be. You can see how that would be disastrous for Nintendo's image seeing as how their primary demographics are kids, younger teens, and families, whereas for a company like Atlus or XSeed Games, their primary market is hardcore gamers.

 

[Pancake Mix]

But that's still an assumption you're making about this particular instance. The developers in this case may have supported the changes. For all you know, the only reason some things were in the game in the first place (bikini dungeon, hot sprigs DLC) was to pander to the Japanese market! Not because it was a core part of their artisitic vision.

The developer is Atlus, so you can't really argue that

 

[kiryogi]

But that's still an assumption you're making about this particular instance. The developers in this case may have supported the changes. For all you know, the only reason some things were in the game in the first place (bikini dungeon, hot sprigs DLC) was to pander to the Japanese market! Not because it was a core part of their artisitic vision.

But these weren't even cases of pandering, more so that it's actually inline with the industry motif.

 

[Tohsaka]

Because it's an extra expense and most Japanese localization companies are running on razor-thin margins so they'll pretty much only censor stuff if they have to in order to avoid an AO rating (like Atlus did with Dungeon Travelers 2). And well, "Obscure company you've never heard of releases porn game for handheld system you've never heard of" isn't news the way that "Family friendly Nintendo releases game for pedophiles" would be. You can see how that would be disastrous for Nintendo's image seeing as how their primary demographics are kids, younger teens, and families, whereas for a company like Atlus or XSeed Games, their primary market is hardcore gamers.

There's no chance that would even happen, though. They aged the girls up to 18, and they were already 17 in the Japanese version so it's not like they're pre-teens running around in lingerie or something. Censoring bikinis on 18 year olds is just asinine and I don't see how anyone can seriously defend it. Xenoblade Chronicles X has multiple thong armor sets that are much more risque than the ones in this game, and that received a T rating.

 

[Zolo]

But these weren't even cases of pandering, more so that it's actually inline with the industry motif.

It's entirely possible for an industry motif to be pandering. More extreme, but it's partly why so many rpgs were criticized lately about including brothels in it.

 

[kiryogi]

It's entirely possible for an industry motif to be pandering. More extreme, but it's partly why so many rpgs were criticized lately about including brothels in it.

If you build a game around the an entertainment industry of a certain culture, how would you go about even doing it? I wouldn't say pandering was necessarily the goal here, more so than just literally making it a game about the Japanese entertainment industry.

Because, that. is. the. idol. and. entertainment. industry.

Which half of the naysayers can't seem to grasp at all.

 

[bishopcruz]

Because it's an extra expense and most Japanese localization companies are running on razor-thin margins so they'll pretty much only censor stuff if they have to in order to avoid an AO rating (like Atlus did with Dungeon Travelers 2). And well, "Obscure company you've never heard of releases porn game for handheld system you've never heard of" isn't news the way that "Family friendly Nintendo releases game for pedophiles" would be. You can see how that would be disastrous for Nintendo's image seeing as how their primary demographics are kids, younger teens, and families, whereas for a company like Atlus or XSeed Games, their primary market is hardcore gamers.

So your argument is that the reason MORE stuff doesn't get censored, is because its expensive? That's new. It's good to know that people are just itching to censor games, but their finaincial situation stops them. Or it could just be that Nintendo is an outlier, and they are making a mistake. I know that's hard to grasp for some.

 

[thumb]

If you build a game around the an entertainment industry of a certain culture, how would you go about even doing it? I wouldn't say pandering was necessarily the goal here, more so than just literally making it a game about the Japanese entertainment industry. Because, that. is. the. idol. and. entertainment. industry. Which half of the naysayers can't seem to grasp at all.

From what i can tell, none of that specifically requires the hot springs dlc, or the bikini-image dungeon.

 

[Eolz]

From what i can tell, none of that specifically requires the hot springs dlc, or the bikini-image dungeon.

Idol Gravure doesn't require that? Ahahah what?

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

So your argument is that the reason MORE stuff doesn't get censored, is because its expensive? That's new. It's good to know that people are just itching to censor games, but their finaincial situation stops them. Or it could just be that Nintendo is an outlier, and they are making a mistake. I know that's hard to grasp for some.

No, I'm saying it's an added expense and their primary target demographic doesn't care so they don't do it. Nintendo's primary demographic is very different than say Aksys's or NIS America's primary demographic. Atlus's primary demographic is 20-40 year old adults who play videogames. Nintendo's primary demographic is 6-15 year old kids & the parents who buy them stuff.

 

[kiryogi]

From what i can tell, none of that specifically requires the hot springs dlc, or the bikini-image dungeon.

Spoken like someone that doesn't know what's involved in said industry.

Idols often get involved in Gravure Magazines or shoots. Hell, just check out AKB48 videos or photo books.

Secondly, what do you think the Hot Springs DLC is even before I further elaborate?

 

[Pancake Mix]

Nintendo is an outlier. What Nintendo did to that boss was exactly what they required of third-parties pre-ESRB.

It's basically a change mandated by them in Final Fantasy III (VI) or Super Castlevania IV and absolutely stupid. Wouldn't have changed the rating either, though it would maybe add an extra content descriptor.

It's obvious that NOA did not want to release the game.

 

[kiryogi]

AKB48 Photobook:

 

[kunonabi]

No one that's a legitimate part of this debate is calling for games to be *regulated* with regard to female sexualization. And you're right: lots of media sexualize women. Men too, but women tend to receive more of it. And video games have a particullarly egregious history of treating women as objects to oogle and little else. That's changing, but one reason it's changing is people are waking up and lookig around.

The thing is when you have these gigantic online bitch fests that complain incessantly regardless of context, intent, and appropriateness and companies are giving in then that's pretty much what you get. I mean I wouldn't mind reasonable voices stopping what happened to pandemonium 2 or preventing the excess sexualization that happened to Resident Evil but that doesn't mean that I don't think there can be room for it if handled properly in the right situation. That's what twitter and NOA don't understand.

 

[BGBW]

Lying on a sofa = pandering? lol on a barbecue!

 

[thumb]

Spoken like someone that doesn't know what's involved in said industry.

Idols often get involved in Gravure Magazines or shoots. Hell, just check out AKB48 videos or photo books.

Secondly, what do you think the Hot Springs DLC is even before I further elaborate?

The DLC is, by definition, optional. If it were core to the developer's expression, it would be in the game itself. "Specifically requires" is a different claim than saying something is not thematically consistent. It is thematically consistent for main characters to die in Game of Thrones, for example. It's a harsh, dark fantasy world. But the fiction does not require that a main character die in every episode, and the story is not worse for it.

 

[Shun]

Going to post this again because again, the game is an entertainment industry parody and for one isn't exclusively idols and people seem to have some sort of bias or misconception that the entirety of the game and how they portray it is the same as a game by Compile Heart or D3.

The developers WANTED to make a game like this, and they went through a lot of work and effort to get a lot of the details down. There are a lot of references in this game to both Japanese and Western entertainment.

Rather than idol culture, it is actually really the Entertainment Industry as a whole in this game. Just wanted to get that notion that many may have when looking in superficially.

There characters do sing, but only 2 at most are what you considered "idols". The rest are talk show/variety show hosts, a Tokusatsu/Kamen Rider like stunt actor who wants to be a hero, there are characters who strive to be actors, a gravure model, a former Metal band member, one wants to be a top vocalist.

It isn't really just idol and idol culture. It takes a lot of parts of the entertainment industry and embraces and celebrates it all.

Singing is a stepping stone entertainers use to jumpstart and broaden their appeal and resume for a better and more successful career in something else in entertainment.

Other good examples would be Kanye West using his rapping career to jumpstart his fashion business. LeBron James getting into acting coming as a basketball player.

It would be a shame if it didn't, but if they were to retain the music and had as in-depth references to the entertainment industry as a whole, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. The game has a lot of references to tsukkomi comedians, musicians, vocaloid, magazines, bangumi etc.

I posted earlier in this thread in regards to how similar showbiz is in both east and west and how people use their previous careers to jumpstart more successful ones in the future. If they were to retain western parodies/jokes in the Japanese version of the game like with Barry Goodman and Kuen Tarachino. Barry Goodman being a parody of a western metal band, MEGADETH, and Kuen Tarachino being an obvious Quentin Tarantino reference.

Not even including the vocaloid references, manga and Berserk references, Tokustatsu. and the film references that are plastered throughout the series.

I mean if Ryu Ga Gotoku can do it, I don't see why Treehouse can't. I've only played the series in Japanese but from what I've heard it does a decent job with the idols aspect and all the other entertainment references in Ryu Ga Gotoku 5.

I just will be a daunting task especially if you saw and are able to read the lyrics for the songs I posted earlier. Doing songs would probably be the hardest aspect of it if they were to keep the themes and how it ties into the characters and their personality.

People are really cherrypicking and fixating on somethings without realizing the context which leads me to believe that not many people read through the OP. There really isn't anything that you can call pandering in this game unless you really want to call every instance of showing skin pandering.

It's pretty faithful to the trajectory of how a lot of people end up in show business and they've been pretty inoffensive with it.

The concept of idol is pretty broad because at it's core it's really just a person who's there, a face, to represent fans through a variety of activities, whether it is singing, appearing on bangumi, wide shows, radio shows, comedy, etc. You have a character and flavor for each of them, some not as developed as others, but they are there and it's executed tastefully.

Some, not all idols go through gravure, a lot of people in the entertainment use their idol career or gravure career to jumpstart a more successful career in acting or fashion.

Quite a few AKB members graduated and became actors, Shinozaki Ai moved past gravure and is breaking out a singing career a very talented one too, Mizushima Hiro is a prolific actor and is also widely known for his work on tokusatsu as well as male gravure; Mizushima had a writing career too and came back to acting. I guess the closest American contemporary would be say Miley Cyrus or Ice Cube or Channing Tatum or quite a few others. It's the Japanese entertainment industry but there are parallels to Hollywood and the American and international one as well, let's not kid ourselves. But again people will still stay fixated on a single aspect without looking at the big picture really.

You can find character parallels to quite a few characters to real life as well since some characters are parodies to their real life contemporaries.

It's not like in this game you spend a ton of time hosting akushukai or dealing with creepy fans or having to do questionable things. It's tamer than how Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku approaches the aspect in their 5th game.

Even if you're not keen on the aspects of it, Itsuki, the main protagonist, is the most vanilla and grounded one anyway. He wasn't even keen in entering the entertainment industry and was basically sucked into it. He's there to act as an anchor and contrast from the other colorful personalities in the game since he's the one who doesn't necessarily want it as much as the other with his limited modeling experience.

What I kind of would have liked is maybe more of a focus on a scandal aspect to go alongside with the game. Reason being is that I really like AKB49 manga's take on it since it's ending right now and their take on the scandal and the aspects of idols is pretty good and inoffensive for the most part. I'm pretty sad that AKB49 is ending and I think it's a recommended read for anyone interested here.

Anyways I'm going to do my review and thoughts write up now and start editing those in.

As for costumes, yes there are changes but what exactly make it so different or so obscene and completely offensive if we compare it to American and Western stars and idols such as Beyonce and Brittney Spears and Janet Jackson and Taylor Swift.

Male idol groups such as One Direction.

Being an entertainer means you go through a lot of hoops and expand your craft to cover different aspects, not just singing or acting or hosting variety events.

The entire DLC scenario isn't even a fan service scenario where you pick up girls and boys like in Persona or Tales or Final Fantasy and it certainly isn't about dating as there are little if any romance or dating scenarios in the game outside of work.

The DLC is literally just a job they have to do to advertise for a resort and service.

Only like two main characters in the game specifically want to be an idol, the rest have their own ambitions to be an actor, a stunt performer, a vocalist, a model, and more.

The developers were quite meticulous in sticking to their theme and going with it.

 

[bishopcruz]

No, I'm saying it's an added expense and their primary target demographic doesn't care so they don't do it. Nintendo's primary demographic is very different than say Aksys's or NIS America's primary demographic. Atlus's primary demographic is 20-40 year old adults who play videogames. Nintendo's primary demographic is 6-15 year old kids & the parents who buy them stuff.

But Nintendo does release games OUTSIDE of that demographic, look at Ninja Gaiden 3 (published by them on WiiU), Bayonetta 2, Devil's Third, Fatal Frame V, and hell I'd argue that the FE games are outside of the 6-15 market themselves. That is what this title was not aimed at that 6-15 group. So instead of living with that, and moving on. They made the bonehead move of alienating a decent portion of the niche that they need in order to sell an undubbed turn based anime RPG based on the idol industry.

 

[Eolz]

The DLC is, by definition, optional. If it were core to the developer's expression, it would be in the game itself. "Specifically requires" is a different claim than saying something is not thematically consistent. It is thematically consistent for main characters to die in Game of Thrones, for example. It's a harsh, dark fantasy world. But the fiction does not require that a main character die in every episode, and the story is not worse for it.

You just talked about the bikini dungeon and now it's only the DLC?

 

[thumb]

You just talked about the bikini dungeon and now it's only the DLC?

My response encompasses both.

 

[kiryogi]

My response encompasses both.

Keep moving that goal post. Quite frankly, there's no reasoning with you. So I'm just going to agree to disagree at this point.

 

[bishopcruz]

a lot of stuff

Great post. I think it's also kinda odd to say that this is an only Japan thing as well. It's not like we don't have swimsuit photo shoots of teenage stars in the west. Hell, I remember Jessica Biel's shoot for Gear magazine when she was 17, anything from that is far worse than whatever you could find in this game.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

But Nintendo does release games OUTSIDE of that demographic, look at Ninja Gaiden 3 (published by them on WiiU), Bayonetta 2, Devil's Third, Fatal Frame V, and hell I'd argue that the FE games are outside of the 6-15 market themselves. That is what this title was not aimed at that 6-15 group. So instead of living with that, and moving on. They made the bonehead move of alienating a decent portion of the niche that they need in order to sell an undubbed turn based anime RPG based on the idol industry.

None of those games you mentioned have a cutesy anime aesthetic. And of the borderline cases (FE, Fatal Frame), they edited those games too. There's a big difference between "Here's a sexy adult female (Bayonetta)" and "Here's a cartoon with a bunch of sexualized teenage girls."