DragonSworne
Banned
Because the console will be smaller and take less electricity. I kid you not, this is how Nintendo's hardware team thinks.
Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
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Because the console will be smaller and take less electricity. I kid you not, this is how Nintendo's hardware team thinks.
Joelstinton14
Member
You could see why they chose that route.
The Wii U is a lot more sleeker than the other consoles, also it was planned and released in a midst of recession and economic turmoil. Saving pennies make sense.
In most other tech products power consumption is something that people do look at when buying a fridge, phone, car or camera, but it something that is a much harder sell when it comes to gaming consoles. People don't consider it at all, they look at it in a different way, mainly because the audience is different.
I can see why they made those decisions, although they are probably misguided when it comes to who they are selling the consoles too.
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
If it is at least on par with ps 4 I'll get. Otherwise my middle finger will be raised slowly
Im not saying it should be considered pessimistic, I'm saying I hope it is.Why should it be considered overly pessimistic? Nintendo's two previous consoles have been arguably more underpowered at the time of release. The onus is on you for making such an outrageous claim as "Nintendo really shouldn't be stupid enough to release a console on par with the Xbox One in Fucking 2017".
Are you suggesting releasing a console on par with Xbox one in the spring of 2017 isn't a bad move..?
DragonSworne
Banned
He is saying that Nintendo is stupid enough to release a console in 2017 that has the power of the Xbox One.
Personally, I think NX will be weaker than Xbox One.
Because the Wii was substantially less powerful than the competition but still became their biggest ever console maybe?
A Wii-sized hit might not be likely, but if they release a reasonably-priced system, promote it well, and release appealing games consistently, without massive software droughts all the bloody time, it will sell a lot better than Wii U.
E-Cat
Member
No? In fact, it being a bad move is the reason why it's likely going to happen...
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
So far we've been discussing ISA matters for gamedevs. ISA matters for the platform holder is another thing, as they have to spend quite some time and effort in the plumbing of the system, and that effort nearly doubles with two ISAs - think protection mechanisms/sandboxes, virtual memory, toolchain support and APIs parity (since unified sw platform) etc. For nintendo x86 would make sense if they could use it in the hh as well, but since they physically cannot, then they'd be paying the price of two ISAs. Which they really don't have to if they went with ARMv8 across the board.
LordRaptor
Member
So I'm curious how long people saying "omg so stupid to release a console midway between its competitors in 2017" think this gen is going to last?
Because before it began people were talking about it lasting for like, 8 years again.
But now it seems you think its basically over, like the last gen was when WiiU launched?
Because before it began people were talking about it lasting for like, 8 years again.
But now it seems you think its basically over, like the last gen was when WiiU launched?
Milly Osworth
Member
I wish we lived in an alternative reality where everyone is excited about the next Nintendo console. Instead we are all bitter and negative. Nintendo s own fault but still. 😔
Is there anything more you can tell us?
No shit. I think you completely misread my post.
Im guessing you singled out my post just to say my hope that the rumors aren't true is 'outrageous'? Otherwise we basically agree.
yeah... thread has become really painful to read.
Ok this is how i see it : the console is in between of both current gen consoles. As we already seen many compare videos between xbox and ps4, they doesnt look much different graphical wise. So what can be the problem : if sony or ms would release their next console, that could be a problem. However, if the rumors are true about ps4k or xbox 1.5, then ms and sony are screwed. Those consoles wont have many games that would run only on that specific hardware. I still think they did it for VR which is for gaming a complete fail. You'll know that after a year or so...
DiddyKong08
Neo Member
An ARM-based, modern, efficient console between XBO and PS4 (raw-power-wise) makes all the sense in the world. A few things to consider:
- Nintendo believes price is a primary barrier to be overcome in route to market share. Especially in a world where most people play free games on their phone. I can't find the Iwata quote, but it was basically along the lines of "$400 boxes that play $60 games is not a good long-term strategy." The market that does pay these prices for big, blockbuster games left Nintendo a long time ago (as this forum frequently points out). If Nintendo comes out and says, "here's a $400 box that has 50% more horsepower than your PS4 and maybe hopefully will build a respectable third party library (but almost certainly not compared to the other consoles)." Do you think PS4 owners are going to run and sell their PS4s? Assuredly not.
-Unless you're talking about VR or 4K, I believe we've hit diminishing returns on game graphics for the time being. Again, talking about the larger market. I see Uncharted 4, and it just blows me away. I don't think about the PS4 or XBO being underpowered for even a second. I think the larger market agrees- it's good enough for now. Hitting th he sweet spot between affordability and capability is the most important thing.
So if Nintendo comes out and says, "Here's a $250 box. It's small and efficient, but can absolutely handle anything your XBO or PS4 can play. It'll have beautiful Nintendo games and will also play the games from your NX handheld (speculating here). Also, here's a 3D Mario that will freaking blow your mind."
If that's what they say, I'm there. Find that sweet spot between accessibility and capability. It's not going to sell 100 million or maybe even 50 million. But I think, along with a handheld that shares some of its library and operability, it's a good long-term strategy.
- Nintendo believes price is a primary barrier to be overcome in route to market share. Especially in a world where most people play free games on their phone. I can't find the Iwata quote, but it was basically along the lines of "$400 boxes that play $60 games is not a good long-term strategy." The market that does pay these prices for big, blockbuster games left Nintendo a long time ago (as this forum frequently points out). If Nintendo comes out and says, "here's a $400 box that has 50% more horsepower than your PS4 and maybe hopefully will build a respectable third party library (but almost certainly not compared to the other consoles)." Do you think PS4 owners are going to run and sell their PS4s? Assuredly not.
-Unless you're talking about VR or 4K, I believe we've hit diminishing returns on game graphics for the time being. Again, talking about the larger market. I see Uncharted 4, and it just blows me away. I don't think about the PS4 or XBO being underpowered for even a second. I think the larger market agrees- it's good enough for now. Hitting th he sweet spot between affordability and capability is the most important thing.
So if Nintendo comes out and says, "Here's a $250 box. It's small and efficient, but can absolutely handle anything your XBO or PS4 can play. It'll have beautiful Nintendo games and will also play the games from your NX handheld (speculating here). Also, here's a 3D Mario that will freaking blow your mind."
If that's what they say, I'm there. Find that sweet spot between accessibility and capability. It's not going to sell 100 million or maybe even 50 million. But I think, along with a handheld that shares some of its library and operability, it's a good long-term strategy.
geordiemp
Member
Because they have 60 million customers who want a powerful portable and 10 million who will buy just for Nintendo. If the box is portable, plays Nintendo console and portable games and can play Android mobile games, it will have a place in the market and do fine.
I bet they go Nvidia X1 in console and a lower clock lower power X1 in mobile, under XB1 performance, but plays console, portable and Android games and apps is my guess, with could saves so you can continue playing at home or in travel.
Zimmy68
Member
There, fixed it for you.
Seriously, this is Wii U all over again. They said the same thing that is was 1.5 as powerful as the PS3 and Xbox 360.
We all saw how that went.
I'm convinced Nintendo now will never learn.
The Wii success actually killed them.
test_account
XP-39C²
About software, its not really about whats possible, its more about what makes things easier. Curious to why Nintendo hasnt done this earlier.
User 479360
Banned
It'd better be competitive, power-wise. Otherwise, Nintendo will likely repeat its last 2 consoles.
Personally I want a console/handheld hybrid. I only play on my PC and 3ds these days. Consoles just don't interest me. I have neither the time, interest or money. But if I could have a handheld and console where all the games, or most, could be played on both and where my handheld games could look prettier on the big screen at home I would be thrilled. Chances are quite low but you never know. Realistically the handheld is the limiting factor as it would need to be crazy powerful to not limit there console. More likely it would be one way where handheld games would play natively on console and little to no games the other way around save for off screen play within the home like on the Wii U gamepad, but even that would be great for me.
In any event I don't see how chasing the high end market will benefit Nintendo. They just need a console powerful enough, 3rd parties really aren't ever going to come back because they'll always be competing against Nintendo's games more than anything else.
In any event I don't see how chasing the high end market will benefit Nintendo. They just need a console powerful enough, 3rd parties really aren't ever going to come back because they'll always be competing against Nintendo's games more than anything else.
E-Cat
Member
Oh, okay. I guess I confused your hope with what you thought was realistically going to happen.
test_account
XP-39C²
E-Cat
Member
It's important to remember that even if NX were competitive, this gen is already far along. The games that will be coming out over the next year have already begun development long ago. Therefore, NX will receive a minimal number of ports for a while. Things will get really bad once the next-gen consoles release in ~3-4 years. I guess Nintendo better pray for an extra long generation, which I don't see happening.
Eolz
Member
Like most of Emily's leaks/rumors, we'll likely have to wait a month or two (or three...) for some update over thid.
However, she's pretty reliable despite not presenting hw rumors in a good way. Good sources that aren't risking much with her.
LoveCake
Member
The costs are really a mute point, because who is saving the pennies, the WiiU 32GB with Splatoon is still retailing at £199 (chances are you will need to buy an external HDD) the PS4 500GB with Uncharted 4 is £299 and a Xbox One 500GB with Halo 5, Quantum Break is £299, (GAME UK prices) so the WiiU is still pretty expensive if you buy a new console, if Nintendo are not going to make a loss on selling the NX and it's more powerful than an X1 but less than a PS4 it is surely going to cost about the same as a X1 at least?
As for the power consumption, why is this even an issue for Nintendo, as you have said nobody cares about the power consumption of a games console.
With incremental hardware upgrades they can control the raw power difference every two or three years. They idea is that they will not be stuck with NX March 2017 hardware for 4 or 5 years. We can further guess Holiday 2019 can be the time of the first revision.
So launching mid-gen, they have to go with a cheaper alternative, and starts to build that future-proof library.
LordRaptor
Member
In game development the ISA used is such a minor performance differentiator to the end user (consumer and game studio, not engine developer) that it is a complete non-issue.
It's like saying "Diesel car? Fuck that underpowered shit, Petrol all the way!". There are differences to a manufacturer in terms of footprint, and there are differences to an end user in terms of running costs, but there's nothing inherently different in car performance.
richman555
Member
I don't know but do you have any source articles for this? Everything I have read was that the Wii U Gamepad Controller added a lot of cost to the system. It actually makes total sense too, given that it has a screen, wireless communication, and built in NFC. Also, Nintendo only ever bundled one and does not sell it separately, for much the same reason.
Eolz
Member
I'LL BUY ANYTHING NINTENDO DAY 1 AND I THINK THEY SUCK AS A COMPANY.
what is that(
They're still excellent developers despite having been mediocre (or more depending on the occasion) publishers lately...
Hell, it's a bit the same for Atlus fans in Europe...
It's an internet forum. So no.
E-Cat
Member
But NX will still be the baseline that they have to scale down to. If it's around 1-1.3 TFLOPS, as now seems likely, how can NX handle ports from the 10+ TFLOPS PS5 (that is no longer bound to the PS4/Neo spec)? Short answer: it cannot.
Not to mention, the whole notion of Nintendo doing incremental hardware revisions is totally speculative at this point.
Eolz
Member
LordRaptor
Member
Do you think Sonys timeline is:
2017 PS4Neo
2018 PS5
2019 PS5NEO
2020 PS6
or something...?
Sorry to tell you that you're wrong.
They have a team that figure out what sony and ms will bring. Also they said that they want competitive again. Also, only the wii/wiiu was bad in power terms and they know it isn't working anymore. Also they have hired young devs that can deside about what nx needed to be.
Don't believe emily, you must be really stupid thinking you can try to fool people for a 3rd time in power terms. Like i said before, we dont know sh*t about what the nx really is or can do. We have only talked about if the consoles is 2% stronger or weaker as ps4 or xbox1.
JetSetRadio
Banned
Power consumption will be amazing.
E-Cat
Member
Not really. We have something called Moore's Law (adjusted for slowdown, of course) and several previous generations to go by to give us a rough estimate.And PS5 specs isn't something totally speculative?
How do you figure that? I think it's more like:
2016/17 PS4Neo
2019/20 PS5
Think if ps4neo comed in 2017 march, we can wait 2019 or even 2020 before we see ps5. What of course is a good thing for Nx.
Sony wanted a life cycle of 7y
I'LL BUY ANYTHING NINTENDO DAY 1 AND I THINK THEY SUCK AS A COMPANY.
what is that
edit: im making this a thread
New news, new thread.
Please tell me you don't buy this bullshit rumor Eurogamer reported on that says the PS5 will have 10 TFLOPS.
RobFox64tm
Member
I don't think graphics had much to do with Wii's success, or Wii U's failure, so I'm not sure why there are so many here claiming it to be the nail in NX's coffin. You can attribute third parties abandoning the system to Wii U's conservative power, sure, but I think it had more to do with poor messaging by Nintendo that ultimately killed any appeal the system might of had. If Nintendo can make an affordable, adequately powered console with a robust lineup of launch games, and follow that with a steady release schedule, I don't think it's impossible for them to find a bigger audience. It all depends on how Nintendo markets and brands the system.
E-Cat
Member
I don't know about any such rumour. It's just common sense: GPU power doubles roughly every two years. If PS5 is released in 2019, that's three doublings --> 1.843 TFLOPS * 2^3 = 14.7 TFLOPS. Lower estimate to 10+ TFLOPS in order to be conservative.
That's how it's worked since forever, dude.
LordRaptor
Member
I just assumed Sony selling a high priced hardware refresh of the PS4 for 1 maybe 2 years then obsoleting it with the 'real' hardware upgrade would be such a dick move to anyone who bought a PS4K they wouldn't even consider that.
wonderful103
Member
There are 60 million current gen owners that wouldn't be too happy to be left out in the cold a la xenoblade n3ds.
But then people forget how far up and down pc games scale when they blather without any context in threads like these.
Oh, and Nintendo did mention moving from a hardware tied platform to a hardware agnostic platform like iOS and android. This declaration was so old that it was Iwata that made it. Long before the neo was a gleam in the eye of sony's leaky ship. It's been spelled out for you already how it will work, and yes that includes new/more hardware devices in the future.
And for reference, the ps5 isn't going to be a ps5. It's going to be a ps4k2 (maybe it will even do 4K games if we are lucky). That's how hardware will be from now on folks. Generations are dead. The sooner you let that go the better you'll be with how this market now works. How it used to work means nothing. Throw the past and those expectations away.
Platform as a service. That's how everyone is selling it to their investors.
E-Cat
Member
Tim Sweeney of Epic, aka the mastermind of modern graphics, has something to say about scaling in the context of consoles:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4035/from_the_past_to_the_future_tim_.php?print=1
PdotMichael
Banned
The main rason why the fantasy of handheld and console running the same games is silly.
test_account
XP-39C²
Sorry if i wasnt more clear earlier, but my question isnt about performance or the effect on end users/consumers, its only about the easy of porting things between the systems for the developers. Porting something like Crysis to the DS would be hard due to hardware power differences of course, but i'm thinking about games that are made in mind to run on several of different devices. That is assumingly what Nintendo is going for with the NX. I'm under the impression from the previous answers from people that its pretty much irrelevant which CPUs being used in the console and handheld when it comes to porting stuff. As in, the handheld could run a completely different CPU architecture than the console, yet porting would still be just as easy even if they run the same CPU architecture. I think that sounds strange, but i'm not really a tech guy.
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