Bel Marduk
Banned
Quite admirable.
TPM: Vitriol from Sanders' campaign coming from the top
- Thread starter giga
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Quite admirable.
jack_package_200
Banned
Can you explain why the interview is interesting? Or say why its relevant/important?
Many of us don't have the time or patience to watch a 45 minute interview.
This entire election cycle will make for an amazing read.
The Republican side is a lot more interesting though.
Your responses make no sense to me. Im not even sure how to respond to this because I'm not sure what you're arguing or what you thought I was arguing when you read my posts.
Omegasquash
Member
I wish more people understood this and spent less time attacking the past, when things were different. That she's been able to demonstrate change on many things actually shows that she IS progressive.
Yeah. Honestly the 08 primary felt much more heated and vitriolic. Helps too that Clinton performed a lot stronger than Sanders is during this contest.
I'm honestly not worried about party unity. Sanders supporters will get in line. Sanders will get in line. But his current rhetoric and behavior isn't helping anyone. Not his campaign, his reputation, or the party.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Bernie himself is a pragmatist like all politicians. You do what you can when you can. He hasn't just failed at running for President. He kickstarted a movement. And he absolutely should milk it for all it's worth to ensure the issues he's passionate about remain front and center.
Now, do I support him? Nope. But he'd be a fool to not utilize his grass root candidacy in the long term.
My opinion of Bernie Sanders, like others, has really plummeted as the primary season drags on. Went from being a full throated admirer to tempered but still supportive, to voting Hillary in my primary after weighing issues and platforms and now completely turned off by his petulant rhetoric and negativity. Same vague stump speech, no broad coalition, no path to victory, no class. I haven't seen the same candidate that originally piqued my interest last year in a while.
When Obama was faced with Hillary being the presumptive nominee and the favored candidate of the party base, he didn't whine about it every step of the way. He ran a better, smarter and more inclusive campaign, came from behind and beat her. That's how you win over superdelegates too, not with obnoxious supporters harassing delegates. The demonizing straight from the GOP playbook has gotten pretty ugly as well, it's not every Bernie supporter but it's enough to leave an impression. Much of that leads back to Sanders himself, who continues to have his heart in the right place but does not seem to want to let go unless he can tear the tent down with him.
When Obama was faced with Hillary being the presumptive nominee and the favored candidate of the party base, he didn't whine about it every step of the way. He ran a better, smarter and more inclusive campaign, came from behind and beat her. That's how you win over superdelegates too, not with obnoxious supporters harassing delegates. The demonizing straight from the GOP playbook has gotten pretty ugly as well, it's not every Bernie supporter but it's enough to leave an impression. Much of that leads back to Sanders himself, who continues to have his heart in the right place but does not seem to want to let go unless he can tear the tent down with him.
Dash_Riprock
Member
What movement? His people are spewing the same shit Ron Paul fanatics did 8 years ago.
Where did that get them?
A movement is only successful when the candidate actually WINS.
Simon Belmont
Banned
If you replace "break up the big banks" with "go back to the gold standard" this is basically true.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Young people are voting in record numbers and he won big upsets in some primary races. I'm inclined to agree w/ the Ron Paul shit in terms of passion for a candidate that just can't win but it'd be tough to turn your back on those people out there voting.
I think a Clinton/Sanders ticket would easily sweep the Election and pacify the Bernie Bros.
How are they spewing the same shit as Ron Paul fanatics, and why is a movement only successful if the candidate actually wins?
These are opinions I've never heard before from any side by anyone.
I don't think this is entirely fair.
If polling trends follow the precedent set here, then his ideals represent the future of the party. The overwhelming lead he has among younger democrats attests to this.
No they aren't voting in record numbers! More young people voted in the 2008 Dem primary than have in the 2016 one! If anything turnout is down compared to 2008.
Simon Belmont
Banned
Young people become old people. The boomers we bitch about now were the hippies in the 60s.
And_Gignac
Member
GIVE
THEM
HELL
BERNARD.
THEM
HELL
BERNARD.
Man, I said you were different from Tesseract, don't make me a liar.
What's your perspective on this Nevada thing?
That may very well be the case, I don't dispute that.
But many of these people are still anti-war, for example. There is some data to suggest that it is more than just a fad, is all I'm saying.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Lets' wait until 2024 and see if these young people actually put their money where their mouths are now that they are out of college and in the real world.
metalslimer
Member
What? Young turnout is down all over. You are falling to victim to thinking his young supporters online translates to actual votes
A Clinton Sanders ticket wouldn't do much at all especially when I think Bernie is a terrible surrogate against trump. Hilary someone more policy oriented anyway
soundahfekz
Member
someone doesn't understand how journalism works
That's what I was thinking. What records have been broken in the '16 Democratic primary? Did some of you follow the 08 primary? Were you too young to remember?
Darryl M R
Member
.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
If your view of representation is the delegate model, yes. That's one of several models of representation, and in fact most people want a mix of all of them when they vote for someone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trustee_model_of_representation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegate_model_of_representation
http://www.hazlet.org/cms/lib05/nj0...a more responsible two-party system (pdf).pdf
Delegation also has a problematic tendency in that public opinion (and thus policy demands) are driven in part by elite actors, including representatives, and a model that says someone should follow their constituents ignores the very real ways in which they're simultaneously leading their constituents.
If that's his plan then he's a moron. He would bring nothing but negatives to the ticket and open the campaign to new and hilarious avenues of attack. Besides, this isn't how you get picked as VP.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Sanders is a terrible candidate for the GE. He said and done too much dumb shit to be viable (praising dictators and Stalin bread lines, comments on rape fantasies etc etc). He is terrible under actual pressure. Has run a complete amateur hour campaign. Etc etc There is a reason the GOP is praying to run against him and not Clinton.
It is disappointing to see that it's not a con man milking Sanders' Campaign who is responsible for the outright shit this campaign has been.
If only for the fact that there's a chance the idiots running the campaign may find another gullible candidate to milk.
In the way I rank politicians he's now near the bottom, Clinton did the Dems a favor by running they would have been utterly destroyed if Sanders managed to pick the nomination.
That may be the worst campaign I've seen since 2002...
If only for the fact that there's a chance the idiots running the campaign may find another gullible candidate to milk.
In the way I rank politicians he's now near the bottom, Clinton did the Dems a favor by running they would have been utterly destroyed if Sanders managed to pick the nomination.
That may be the worst campaign I've seen since 2002...
RustyNails
Member
Looking like he wants Hillary to do the walk of shame.
Omegasquash
Member
It's not like he hasn't tried to get her to do it.
minor effort
Banned
I'm in California, a very late primary state, and up until about a month ago I was planning to vote for him in the primary. I knew of him before he announced his candidacy, and I was excited at the onset of his campaign and in the early days of 2016's primary voting. I became more comfortable with the idea of Hillary Clinton as the likely nominee, but I still wanted to follow through with my support for his campaign this June. I still wanted to support him even as I wished his would concede the primary battle to the clear victor in the race, so the Democrats could begin focusing on the GE as the GOP is now able to do.
Sanders petulant statement yesterday erased whatever lingering support I had for his campaign. I'll be voting for Hillary in the primary as well as the GE.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
While he wags his finger and yells "shame" in a Brooklyn accent.
Dash_Riprock
Member
If and when they make a movie about this election he's my number one choice for Sanders.
soundahfekz
Member
Neither side has "angels" (whatever this means), but you can bet that Hillary supporters would get behind Bernie if he won the nomination. Can you say the same for Bernie and his?
For me personally, I'd definitely be telling Hillary to wrap it up, just like I'm wanting Bernie to do now. Shit is over. It's BEEN over. I've lost so much respect for this dude over the last couple months, and I honestly feel bad for the political newbies who are being deluded that the nomination system is broken, rather than their candidate all but scoffed at minority constituents and was disorganized from the jump
Muppet of a Man
Member
She exists. Her name is Elizabeth Warren.
Clockwork5
Member
To be fair, total turnout is down all over for the Democratic primaries when compared to the 2008 numbers.
Indeed. This stubbornness isn't doing anybody any favors.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm really late, but a banned poster on the front page made a note of the weasel-words in the original article, and he wasn't wrong.
It's a shame all the Hillary-bashing articles aren't scrutinized the same way. So much of them are guilt-by-association and weasel-word accusations.
Anyway, after his response to the NV thing (and reading the accounts of his delegates going in with intent to cause trouble, I'm solidly DropOutBernie now. I went from wanting to vote for him in the primary as a message, despite thinking he wouldn't be a good president, to just wanting him to drop out of sight.
It's a shame all the Hillary-bashing articles aren't scrutinized the same way. So much of them are guilt-by-association and weasel-word accusations.
Anyway, after his response to the NV thing (and reading the accounts of his delegates going in with intent to cause trouble, I'm solidly DropOutBernie now. I went from wanting to vote for him in the primary as a message, despite thinking he wouldn't be a good president, to just wanting him to drop out of sight.
Let's be honest here. These are two candidates who struggle with the public - Clinton is disliked but I mean Sanders is basically someone most of his supporters project on.
What's happening now is after his guff regarding superdelegates (after his supporters spent a year campaigning against him) he's worked out there is one way he can win;
Clinton pulls out and hands him victory.
Why? He's actually rather creepily trying to use either her good nature or pride. If he stacks things with Clinton set to lose against Trump - would she stand aside or help Trump into the White House?
She's stubborn so it will clearly fail but expect even more noise about her weaknesses vs Trump. It's the only option he has though however doomed it is.
Something has gone very wrong in the Dems that these are the two main candidates. Too many decided years ago Clinton had it ignoring the point of these long campaigns.
What's happening now is after his guff regarding superdelegates (after his supporters spent a year campaigning against him) he's worked out there is one way he can win;
Clinton pulls out and hands him victory.
Why? He's actually rather creepily trying to use either her good nature or pride. If he stacks things with Clinton set to lose against Trump - would she stand aside or help Trump into the White House?
She's stubborn so it will clearly fail but expect even more noise about her weaknesses vs Trump. It's the only option he has though however doomed it is.
Something has gone very wrong in the Dems that these are the two main candidates. Too many decided years ago Clinton had it ignoring the point of these long campaigns.
Sure, but I needed her to run!
I'm not sure about Warren in general since she has so little political experience or foreign policy experience, but she's a solid suggestion. Unfortunately she didn't want to do it.
Fenderputty
Banned
So not a revolution
I remember Party Unity My Ass. In fact I wasted time arguing with them over the internet after Obama clinched his nom. So no its not a foregone conclusion.
I don't think he's still trying to win the nomination. He should know the super delegates aren't going to flip for him especially without a majority of pledged delegates. I'm not exactly sure why he is continuing his campaign.
If he really wants to sink the Clinton campaign he would run third party.
BlastProcessing
Member
That's because it's been less competitive.
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