Bernie Sanders endorses Tim Canova (Debbie Wasserman Schultz's opponent)

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TI82

Banned
Apparently I wasn't clear, which is my fault. I was directly contrasting that with my earlier question about asking how Trump would in any way be better or the same as Bernie in any of the questions? Objectively, Hillary would at least be the same as Bernie on most stated policy issues as Bernie. Trump would be a complete negative. My point is, if you choose not to vote for Hillary if Bernie loses, you are going against everything that Bernie advocates and if Trump wins, you either wanted that, or didn't give a shit that the results of that turnout will now fuck those people up (which would be going against Bernie's ideals by not supporting the enemy of his enemy).

To me, the possibility of anything Trump advocates coming true are very slim. From his flip flopping multiple times on the same issue in a week, to his long long past with Hillary, everything points to him being a scare candidate. People have to remember he was one of Hillary biggest campaign supporters in 2008. So he seems to be focusing on drawing the vote by fear voters for Hillary.

Not to mention anything insane like a Muslim ban passing are again extremely unrealistic.
 

Drek

Member
"OK Bernie, I know the DNC's shit all over you since the beginning of this race, but it's time to respect the party leadership". Nah, I feel like Bernie has earned the few shots he's actually taking. He could be doing much worse.

Don't worry Hilldawgs, he'll endorse when he has to.
How have they shit all over him?

They let his campaign steal data from the Clinton campaign, let him sue them for a basic level of verification as to what he stole, have conceded to basically all of his demands as it pertains to debates, have never gone hard after his own record in any meaningful way, and when he ran for senate blocked any democrat from running against him so he could continue to keep his precious (I) next to his name while still getting all of their support and funding for his current seat.

Meanwhile he's been tearing them down for 25 years as not being pure enough to earn his loyalty, and when he finally decides to join in it is for an entirely self serving and self aggrandizing agenda that he is now turning into an absolute shitfest because it didn't all turn out just as he wanted it to.
 

BanGy.nz

Banned
Its amazing that people seem to think Reince needs to go (when by all objective measures he has done an AMAZING job as party chair) yet Debbie is perfectly fine
Let party get hijacked by a demagogue.
Reince - Yeah.
Debbie - Nah.

He seems to have failed at pretty important part of the job.
 

Koomaster

Member
I'm sure his base will eat it up, but to anyone that matters he's just keeping those bridges burning. This is pretty much reason #1 why he'd never make a good president. Just no compromises and no self-awareness when he needs to shake some hands instead of batting them away. He'd get nothing done because no one likes him or would want to work with him. This is to say nothing of the disaster foreign policy wise he would be. I could see him insulting foreign diplomats because they aren't as 'pure' as him.

Bernard's just a mess. But I guess some people like messes. *shrug*
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
The responses in this thread clearly demonstrate that HillGAF is prepared to oppose anything that Bernie promotes, considering that ejecting DWS would be a net positive for the party.

This is all kinds of pathetic, and that cult of a community is NO DIFFERENT than the Bernie supporters on reddit, despite how much they like to mock them.

Disgusting.

Your post clearly demonstrates that you have lost touch with reality.

If you can't see the difference between her being DNC head and being a representative, I don't know what to say.
 
To me, the possibility of anything Trump advocates coming true are very slim. From his flip flopping multiple times on the same issue in a week, to his long long past with Hillary, everything points to him being a scare candidate. People have to remember he was one of Hillary biggest campaign supporters in 2008. So he seems to be focusing on drawing the vote by fear voters for Hillary.

Not to mention anything insane like a Muslim ban passing are again extremely unrealistic.

Are you implying that Trump and Clinton are working together? Because that is... wow.
 

Blader

Member
"OK Bernie, I know the DNC's shit all over you since the beginning of this race, but it's time to respect the party leadership". Nah, I feel like Bernie has earned the few shots he's actually taking. He could be doing much worse.

Don't worry Hilldawgs, he'll endorse when he has to.

It's a pointless shot to take, though, because as has already been pointed out in this thread, her term as leader is almost up. Bernie could be leveraging his huge burst of support this year into more influential policy positions in the party going forward, but instead he seems focused on burning those bridges instead. It's short-sighted thinking that undermines his long-term agenda for the sake of meaningless posturing.
 
Let party get hijacked by a demagogue.
Reince - Yeah.
Debbie - Nah.

He seems to have failed at pretty important part of the job.

It's almost like there's more to our political system then who's president!

The Republican party has taken full control of congress (including a damn near historic advantage in the house) and an overwhelming advantage in governorships and state legislatures.

They've accomplished all that despite being on the less popular side of most issues, despite a popular Democratic president, despite an improving economy, and despite being obstructive fucks who are hated by a huge majority of the country.

They have no business whatsoever being as successful as they are given the current political environment.

Their success speaks to their incredible leadership, while the Dems' horrible track record speaks to their godawful leadership and organizing.
 

royalan

Member
"OK Bernie, I know the DNC's shit all over you since the beginning of this race, but it's time to respect the party leadership". Nah, I feel like Bernie has earned the few shots he's actually taking. He could be doing much worse.

Don't worry Hilldawgs, he'll endorse when he has to.

In what way has the DNC shit on the Sanders campaign?

The only logical thing I can think of is scheduling so few debates. But the DNC gave into his demands for more debates and nearly doubled the schedule very early on. And the debates haven't exactly helped Bernie. In fact, with his inability to modulate his message, the debates only contributed to the validity of Hillary's claim that he's a one-issue candidate.

I can't think of any realistic thing the DNC has done to shit on Bernie Sanders that doesn't amount to some attempt to excuse him being handily defeated.
 

collige

Banned
Your post clearly demonstrates that you have lost touch with reality.

If you can't see the difference between her being DNC head and being a representative, I don't know what to say.

This endorsement makes sense I solely n the context of her being a rep as well. Their politics line up almost entirely, not to mention the fact that him opposing a BLM supporter who also wants a $15 minimum wage would have terrible optics.
 

Blader

Member
To me, the possibility of anything Trump advocates coming true are very slim. From his flip flopping multiple times on the same issue in a week, to his long long past with Hillary, everything points to him being a scare candidate. People have to remember he was one of Hillary biggest campaign supporters in 2008. So he seems to be focusing on drawing the vote by fear voters for Hillary.

Not to mention anything insane like a Muslim ban passing are again extremely unrealistic.

welp, you've fallen for it.

Even if Trump just does have a sudden about face next January and decides to abandon all of his bigotry-driven ideas, that doesn't change the fact that he would have been elected for his bigotry-driven ideas. It gives sexism, racism, Islamophobia, etc. a huge symbolic push. These are not ideas that should rewarded with a White House win, regardless of whether the man speaking them will actually follow through or not.
 

sonicmj1

Member
The sooner people realize the function of electoral politics is to just get some person in office that has to listen to people who care about political issues because enough people who voted him or her in cares about those issues, rather than it being the totality of the political world, the better off we will be.

I'd rather Bernie Sanders be the president rather than Hilary Clinton because the conversation would be starting a little more to the left and he's less beholden to fundamentally undemocratic political forces, but, at the end of the day, he's an imperfect person who holds public office who will never be anywhere near the perfect progressive hero some people want him to be. Candidates should not be the center of the political process, but tools. Consequently, I wish people would stop with this toxic snark (on both the Sanders and Clinton sides), and just show up to fucking vote. Better yet, actually try to engage in some sort of political process that actually deals with the lived political realities of people, you know actual politics. It's this sort of insulated, myopic, horse race focused bullshit that leads so many people to think this shit doesn't matter in the first place. Stay focused on the actual politics of day to day life and maybe these apathetic people (who Bernie Sanders only begins to reach the tip of) might actually start engaging in political processes.

Of course Bernie is a false prophet. Who cares. They all are. Of course Hilary Clinton is an "establishment" candidate. They all are to a certain extent. That's how you get power. The job of citizens is to coerce candidates with existing power into doing shit that they want, not picking a team and narrowing your political imagination. That sort of shit just leads to shitty moral blackmail (get in line or your'll have to deal with Trump). Of course Trump is awful, but the reason he even got this far in the first place is because he knows how to manipulate this stupid system in which we give far, far too much of a shit about candidates and not about things that actually matter.

Stop using candidates as short hands for concepts like "ideological purity," and "compromise." Nobody who has ever been a part of an establishment political process has not compromised to get something he or she wanted, and nothing has ever gotten done without ideology driving the process. Candidates aren't ideas. They're vessels for policy and should be nothing more.

Rant over I guess. I don't normally post in political threads, but this snarky culture is really preventing me from enjoying any of them.

I'm totally on-board with this. All this sniping between two sides that have very closely aligned policy aims is a huge waste of energy, and it's depressing to watch play out in these threads time and time again. There's so much other work that needs to be done to solve the problems this country has, and this presidential election is only a small (though important) part of that process.
 

pigeon

Banned
To me, the possibility of anything Trump advocates coming true are very slim. From his flip flopping multiple times on the same issue in a week, to his long long past with Hillary, everything points to him being a scare candidate. People have to remember he was one of Hillary biggest campaign supporters in 2008. So he seems to be focusing on drawing the vote by fear voters for Hillary.

Not to mention anything insane like a Muslim ban passing are again extremely unrealistic.

I mean, assuming you're right and Donald Trump is a Clinton plant that somehow managed to win the nomination and nobody heard about this elaborate conspiracy involving some of the worst secret-keepers on the planet, that's just another reason to support Hillary. If she can ensure her presidential victory like this, imagine how effective she'll be at using dirty tricks and secret manipulation to pass legislation!

Also the deal's probably off if Bernie gets the nomination.
 

User1608

Banned
It's a pointless shot to take, though, because as has already been pointed out in this thread, her term as leader is almost up. Bernie could be leveraging his huge burst of support this year into more influential policy positions in the party going forward, but instead he seems focused on burning those bridges instead. It's short-sighted thinking that undermines his long-term agenda for the sake of meaningless posturing.
Indeed. The man is a fool and has no political savvy. It really is disappointing, he used to be my favorite politician because I agreed with him on so much and loved his spirit...but he is as much a bullshitter and asshole as many politicians are and can be.
 

TI82

Banned
I mean, assuming you're right and Donald Trump is a Clinton plant that somehow managed to win the nomination and nobody heard about this elaborate conspiracy involving the some of the worst secret-keepers on the planet, that's just another reason to support Hillary. If she can ensure her presidential victory like this, imagine how effective she'll be at using dirty tricks and secret manipulation to pass legislation!

Also the deal's probably off if Bernie gets the nomination.

lol, ill take the honest candidate over the GOT-esque candidate
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
This endorsement makes sense I solely n the context of her being a rep as well. Their politics line up almost entirely, not to mention the fact that him opposing a BLM supporter who also wants a $15 minimum wage would have terrible optics.

My argument is simply, she can be a terrible leader of the DNC and still be a fine rep.
Your post is not very clear.
 

TI82

Banned
Trump is in no way an honest candidate. The man flips flips and changes his positions more than you can shake a cracker barrel at.

Talking about Bernie, trump is not my candidate either. And no, voting for someone else isn't giving him a vote to even suggest that is such crap
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Talking about Bernie, trump is not my candidate either. And no, voting for someone else isn't giving him a vote to even suggest that is such crap

Mathematics not your best subject in school huh?
 
It's almost like there's more to our political system then who's president!

The Republican party has taken full control of congress (including a damn near historic advantage in the house) and an overwhelming advantage in governorships and state legislatures.

They've accomplished all that despite being on the less popular side of most issues, despite a popular Democratic president, despite an improving economy, and despite being obstructive fucks who are hated by a huge majority of the country.

They have no business whatsoever being as successful as they are given the current political environment.

Their success speaks to their incredible leadership, while the Dems' horrible track record speaks to their godawful leadership and organizing.

Priebus doesn't really get credit for most of their success. Chalk that up to Steele being around for the wave elections (and subsequent gerrymandering) in 2010. Priebus can take credit for 2014, but he's also got 2012 and 2016 on his record. One moderate success isn't going to cover up massive failures. If Priebus is still around after this year, I'd be very surprised.
 

User1608

Banned
Talking about Bernie, trump is not my candidate either. And no, voting for someone else isn't giving him a vote to even suggest that is such crap
Yes, I misread and admit my mistake. Sorry in that regard!

However Trump is in no way helping Hillary via conspiracy. Just crazy talk.
 
Talking about Bernie, trump is not my candidate either. And no, voting for someone else isn't giving him a vote to even suggest that is such crap

If you vote Green or don't vote you're basically burning it and accomplishing nothing. So yeah, it is tacitly a vote for Trump, whether you like that or not.
 

TI82

Banned
I need to to say it.

Do you think Trump's goal is to have Clinton elected President? Do you think his campaign is part of an organized effort between Clinton and Trump?

I think his plan is to disrupt the GOP and drag it down into unrecoverable territory. If that gets Clinton elected then gravy.
 
endorsing someone else doesn't mean you also endorse the candidate that wins. Thinking like this is what caused us to land in this duopoly of politics

Uh. No. The fact that the US was designed to be a binary dual party structure from its inception and that no strong third parties have ever emerged is the cause for that.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
endorsing someone else doesn't mean you also endorse the candidate that wins. Thinking like this is what caused us to land in this duopoly of politics

Duopoly is how the system was designed. So it always ends up like this.

Pretending it's like another system is like pretending America's Got Talent is primarily not a Singing Competition.
 
Case in point, continue doing what you do it definitely gets people on your side

Doing what I do (which is one step prior to post 75) has definitely gotten people on my side outside of this site.

Of course, I do what I do in places that don't enforce anonymity so people have to actually look me in the eye, so
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions

collige

Banned
My argument is simply, she can be a terrible leader of the DNC and still be a fine rep.
Your post is not very clear.

She may very well be a fine rep, but she's being primaried by someone who is arguably a better rep who's more in line with Bernie's policies.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
She may very well be a fine rep, but she's being primaried by someone who is arguably a better rep who's more in line with Bernie's policies.

Well, it's up to the people in her district to decide if he's a better rep. Just because he's inline with Bernie doesn't make him better for them.
 

TI82

Banned
Then please explain how voting 3rd party will?

You need a constitutional amendment to change our election system.

Going to be incredibly difficult to get either party to do so. As it will marginalize both parties and force coalition government, when as it stands now the 2 parties create the coalitions before the general election.

You realize that third parties receive additional funding if they are voted for by 5% or more of the election? This leads to more funding for more campaigns.

You realize how insane this all sounds right?

that's fine, im not the only one who thinks it so whatever
 
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