Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

SolidSnakex said:
So Microsoft is going to announce an upgraded Xbox One at E3 that won't be available until late next year? How does that sound like a good idea to anyone at MS?
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Yeah, this sounds a bit of an Osborne/Sega move. "We're launching a console next year that's four times as powerful, but...uh...please continue buying our great current console!"
 
VincentMatts said:
Of course it is. What console did everyone make their primary console when both of them first launched? It wasn't the Xbox. Why not? Xbox had every reason to be the main console after last generation especially in North America. But it wasn't. And why not? For one, bad messaging and also because all the games ran better on PlayStation. The initial hard-core gamers made PlayStation their primary console because of the power plain and simple. After that, everyone goes where their friends are which was in this case ultimately the PlayStation.

Xbox has had more exclusives then PlayStation since the very start of this generation yet PlayStation is still winning. And that by a lot. People that say power doesn't matter in this case are wrong because it matters very much.

The initial console crowd will get the games on the platform where they feel the game runs the best, after that the more casual people that follow will ultimately go wherever the initial crowd decided was a better console.

And I don't want to hear the PlayStation 2 stories on how It was weaker and it won BS. It was Microsoft's first console then and it was never going to beat PlayStation, especially not on their first try. It's ridiculous to even think it.

Power is hugely important and Microsoft learned that the hard way.
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You forgot the 100 dollars.

For a mandatory family spy camera.
 
VincentMatts said:
Of course it is. What console did everyone make their primary console when both of them first launched? It wasn't the Xbox. Why not? Xbox had every reason to be the main console after last generation especially in North America. But it wasn't. And why not? For one, bad messaging and also because all the games ran better on PlayStation. The initial hard-core gamers made PlayStation their primary console because of the power plain and simple. After that, everyone goes where their friends are which was in this case ultimately the PlayStation.

Xbox has had more exclusives then PlayStation since the very start of this generation yet PlayStation is still winning. And that by a lot. People that say power doesn't matter in this case are wrong because it matters very much.

The initial console crowd will get the games on the platform where they feel the game runs the best, after that the more casual people that follow will ultimately go wherever the initial crowd decided was a better console.

And I don't want to hear the PlayStation 2 stories on how It was weaker and it won BS. It was Microsoft's first console then and it was never going to beat PlayStation, especially not on their first try. It's ridiculous to even think it.

Power is hugely important and Microsoft learned that the hard way.
Click to expand...

price. it really is that simple
 
The Neo, then Scorpio, then Trinity, then?

Beginning of an arms race? The discourse of the forum and DF articles will be all over the place. Last gen it was MS slanted, now Sony. It's going to be yearly slanted if both platforms are constantly updating.
 
rpg_fan said:
I suspect any forward compatibility would be from scorpio onwards. If the rumored specs are true (and I have many doubts), it would be amazingly hard to develop a single codebase to work on both. Especially with esram in the equation.

Scorpio would probably have the extra power required to reliably run uwa's without problem, whereas xb1 needs the code written as close to the 'metal' as possible.
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You could be right and maybe that is why Microsoft isn't going with the "half measure," they might plan to ditch the Xbox One entirely and just have the Scorpio be 100% backward compatible.
 
RoboPlato said:
I admit that I am torn on what to do. I have a big PS4 library and I really don't like having multiple consoles if I can avoid it but that performance delta could be tough to ignore. We will have to see how things pan out.
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One of the reasons I switched to XBO last summer was because the writing was on the wall for this iterative future of consoles, and honestly MS is just much better equipped to make it work. They have the software team to make it happen in a much bigger way. The X360 BC was proof to me that not only do MS care about compatibility and retaining digital libraries, but they have the teams capable of pulling it off. The PS4 Neo being more or less a beefed up PS4 tells me that they needed to stick to the same architecture in order to maintain compatibility, and that could mean that a proper PS5 is another reboot. I simply trust MS more when it comes to properly handling an iterative ecosystem.
 
icespide said:
so why don't other games look as good as ND games I guess is my point?. is it because ND puts forth a crazy amount of effort compared to other devs? Not saying thats bad but should they have to? Wouldn't it be great if games could look as good or even better than that with less effort? does this make sense?
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I'm just saying that the hardware isn't whats holding us back. We don't *need* NEOs or Scorpios to advance console gaming.

Every generation we see devs advance in leaps and bounds when given multiple shots within a generation. And the longer the generation the more devs can feel assured in the baseline of performance to target, as its stable and has a growing audience that switches over.

Bumping the hardware up every few years fucks with everything.
 
VincentMatts said:
Of course it is. What console did everyone make their primary console when both of them first launched? It wasn't the Xbox. Why not? Xbox had every reason to be the main console after last generation especially in North America. But it wasn't. And why not? For one, bad messaging and also because all the games ran better on PlayStation. The initial hard-core gamers made PlayStation their primary console because of the power plain and simple. After that, everyone goes where their friends are which was in this case ultimately the PlayStation.

Xbox has had more exclusives then PlayStation since the very start of this generation yet PlayStation is still winning. And that by a lot. People that say power doesn't matter in this case are wrong because it matters very much.

The initial console crowd will get the games on the platform where they feel the game runs the best, after that the more casual people that follow will ultimately go wherever the initial crowd decided was a better console.

And I don't want to hear the PlayStation 2 stories on how It was weaker and it won BS. It was Microsoft's first console then and it was never going to beat PlayStation, especially not on their first try. It's ridiculous to even think it.

Power is hugely important and Microsoft learned that the hard way.
Click to expand...

You are way, way off. About like... Everything
 
malfcn said:
The Neo, then Scorpio, then Trinity, then?

Beginning of an arms race? The discourse of the forum and DF articles will be all over the place. Last gen it was MS slanted, now Sony. It's going to be yearly slanted if both platforms are constantly updating.
Click to expand...

Sub Zero.
 
AmyS said:
What if Sony got really clever and does not say a word about NEO at E3.

Internally, they shelve Neo / PS4K and move PS5 forward to 2018, and therefore leapfrog Scorpio.
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No way, with 4k tvs going mainstream and if VR takes off, which is heavily dependant on high resolution and high framrates. Sony needs at least 7nm chips for the performance needed at an affordable price point. No sooner than holiday 2020, ps4k gives them the boost in momentum and the performance needed until ps5 makes since. 4.2tflop gpu in a close box is nothing to scoff at.
 
eyeball_kid said:
Yeah, this sounds a bit of an Osborne/Sega move. "We're launching a console next year that's four times as powerful, but...uh...please continue buying our great current console!"
Click to expand...

That's not the same at all.

The Xbox One is simply going to be a lesser powered console capable of playing all Xbox 1.5 games moving forward. It's going to be a lower price of entry for consumers into the Xbox ecosystem. Cross platform development and forward/backwards compatibility is the underlying essence of Microsoft's gameplan, and an iterative approach to Xbox fits that notion to a tee.

This isn't the same as Microsoft pulling the rug from underneath the original Xbox where manufacturing of the console completely ceased, and development for the platform internally dried up overnight.
 
chromatic9 said:
Probably the best time to make move, 2017. People bought a XBO/PS4 in 2013-2014, you hear about the Neo or PS4k at E3 or wherever, you're not really feeling you've got the most out of your purchase 2-3 years in or not really seeing the benefits of Sony's 4tflop machine and MS say hold your horses we've got something better coming.

I'd imagine by 2017 (4 years in and 2018 (5 years in) and faced with a new system to buy you might plump for the Xbox 6tflop whatever it's called. I know some will say you can just wait for a PS5 then but the new Xbox will be at that ~5 year time, PS4 Neo might get caught in the middle here and be too incremental to be bothering with. Of course Sony has all the WW base, either or both could fail but I think MS really are just looking to get back in the game and get back to decent place at the least. Those 360 owners might jump back.

MS might need to out flank the Neo stuff. Not making a prediction though, PS4 neo could turn into a cheap but decent option and the power game reverts back to PS2 inferior spec days.
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Curious to see if ms is willing to take a big hardware loss again. That is the only way I see a 6 tf box at 399 happening. Might be going above 399 again for new hardware.

Hardware power alone doesn't get ms back in the game. They need Sony to slip.
 
VincentMatts said:
Of course it is. What console did everyone make their primary console when both of them first launched? It wasn't the Xbox. Why not? Xbox had every reason to be the main console after last generation especially in North America. But it wasn't. And why not? For one, bad messaging and also because all the games ran better on PlayStation. The initial hard-core gamers made PlayStation their primary console because of the power plain and simple. After that, everyone goes where their friends are which was in this case ultimately the PlayStation.

Xbox has had more exclusives then PlayStation since the very start of this generation yet PlayStation is still winning. And that by a lot. People that say power doesn't matter in this case are wrong because it matters very much.

The initial console crowd will get the games on the platform where they feel the game runs the best, after that the more casual people that follow will ultimately go wherever the initial crowd decided was a better console.

And I don't want to hear the PlayStation 2 stories on how It was weaker and it won BS. It was Microsoft's first console then and it was never going to beat PlayStation, especially not on their first try. It's ridiculous to even think it.

Power is hugely important and Microsoft learned that the hard way.
Click to expand...

So how about this...last gen former Playstation owners like me went with 360 because it came out earlier, then returned to Playstation because of multiple RRODs and lacking 1st party support after 2010 (Kinect focus, and US centric services)

Sorry dude, but to me 360 was MS's 15 minutes of fame in the console biz. Over here in EU many gamers were just going back home to Sony after last gen.
 
jaypah said:
Lmao, dude straight stumbled out of his flops.

Reading this thread I've realized that the general mood towards Xbox hasn't changed much in the last 3 years or so. Cloud jokes, 30 percent jokes, VCR jokes. Well those are actually funny because they seem like the drunk guy at the bar that still tells the story about the time he "totally owned this guy at Homecoming". But even that stuff aside it's just a generally down and "they'll fuck it up" mood. I've been paying more attention attention to the PC (and VR in particular) but it's interesting to see how far their public perception has fallen with the hardcore. I wonder if they can even claw any of that back now? They obviously don't have much sway with the PC crowd.
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Don't see why they can't. Nintendo managed a comeback (of sorts, before squandering it again). Sony's managed it. There's not a lot inherently different from Microsoft to say they can't manage it, and most importantly, they have the money. They'll try and buy their way around if they have to.

Power alone, however, won't be a saving grace. It's never been the factor for success, for any system. Yes, that includes the PS4. People just like to mention it's the most powerful (atm) b/c it makes for a neat little bullet point, but the mainstream aren't very interested in how many polygons it can push or 1080p60 nonsense. They just want the games, and PS4 has the best variety out of the crop, including on the 1st party front. That's something MS really needs to fix to break through again.

VincentMatts said:
Of course it is. What console did everyone make their primary console when both of them first launched? It wasn't the Xbox. Why not? Xbox had every reason to be the main console after last generation especially in North America. But it wasn't. And why not? For one, bad messaging and also because all the games ran better on PlayStation. The initial hard-core gamers made PlayStation their primary console because of the power plain and simple. After that, everyone goes where their friends are which was in this case ultimately the PlayStation.

Xbox has had more exclusives then PlayStation since the very start of this generation yet PlayStation is still winning. And that by a lot. People that say power doesn't matter in this case are wrong because it matters very much.

The initial console crowd will get the games on the platform where they feel the game runs the best, after that the more casual people that follow will ultimately go wherever the initial crowd decided was a better console.

And I don't want to hear the PlayStation 2 stories on how It was weaker and it won BS. It was Microsoft's first console then and it was never going to beat PlayStation, especially not on their first try. It's ridiculous to even think it.

Power is hugely important and Microsoft learned that the hard way.
Click to expand...
Maybe to you and most people on GAF it matters, but for the rest of folks they couldn't care less. For them power is a much smaller factor in getting the system.

And about PS2...okay, so that's your thing for Xbox. But Gamecube was more powerful than PS2, and also lost. Nintendo wasn't a newcomer by that point, not at the least. Power matters only up to a point; after that other things (where your peers are, marketing, something something the games themselves etc.) end up mattering a whole lot more.
 
Markoman said:
and that's the reason why this news still makes me believe that they will soft-exit the console market in a few years from now. I just can't see what MS can do about Sony WW-mindshare-dominance but banking on Sony fuck-ups. Power alone just won't cut it...they're late to every party and have a major deficit in the 1st party software department.
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Seems like we're back to the PS2 era, meaning the world is Sony's until they mess up again.

Xbox being the most powerful console won't swing anything away from them, when they have such a market lead. And if the Neo really launches 8 months to a year earlier than Scorpio, well, it'll be like Microsoft went boozing and showed up 3 hours too late to their surprise birthday party. Only their most hardcore will be there to light the candles.
 
Sydle said:
I just played both of these within the past 3 weeks and, at least for me, there's no contest.
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Agree that UC4 looks glorious (especially considering the massive levels), though at times (in certain lighting) it can exhibit a few rough edges that remind me of the PS3 era UC games. 1886 is not a complete game, tho I've never been more impressed from a visual standpoint. Sad they won't get an opportunity to further develop that world.
 
Mrbob said:
Curious to see if ms is willing to take a big hardware loss again. That is the only way I see a 6 tf box at 399 happening. Might be going above 399 again for new hardware.

Hardware power alone doesn't get ms back in the game. They need Sony to slip.
Click to expand...
Either that or we are back to "power of the cloud" for these rumours. Talking of which what happened to crackdown? Was it just some "look at what we can do" bull like hololens and we never get to play it?
 
VincentMatts said:
If it was about price, the Xbox should be killing PlayStation right now. But it ain't, because of resolutions and head-to-head videos. Power.
Click to expand...

It's hardly a difference. PS4 games are a little sharper and XB1 games are a little fuzzier. Like... a LITTLE.

It has and impact, but only in an indirect way because it matters to a small core of players who have a network effect. But nobody takes home doom for xbox and says "wtf is this crap" because they saw the ps4 version in an ad. The difference is splitting hairs for most people.

Of course, here on gaf, we are the core. And splitting hairs is our favorite thing.
 
Markoman said:
No way, Nintedo will become the victim of the ensuing chaos in 2017. Part of Apple's major success with the iphone was being the simple solution to a market flooded with hundreds of new devices. Apple came early to the party and for many consumers iphone has become a synonym for smart-phones/ mobiles. And people are willing to pay more for this kind of simplicity.

Holiday 2017 we will have PS4, Neo, Xbox 1+2, NX + Handheld, PSVR, maybe Rift for XB
...not everyone is going to to well with consumers gravitizing towards the "hot" thing from yesterday.
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it's not a matter of nintendo doing well in the marketplace, but rather microsoft using nintendo to pretend sony is so behind the curve that they're behind even nintendo.

also there's nothing simple about what's going on in the market right now. it's the wild west with all these peripherals and different form factors/iterations.
 
VincentMatts said:
If it was about price, the Xbox should be killing PlayStation right now. But it ain't, because of resolutions and head-to-head videos. Power.
Click to expand...
It's not like the XB1 is significantly cheaper than a PS4. And power is definitely not the reason it's in the position it's currently in. It's a contributing factor, but not THE reason XB1 is in second place. It's not even the main reason.
 
Yoday said:
One of the reasons I switched to XBO last summer was because the writing was on the wall for this iterative future of consoles, and honestly MS is just much better equipped to make it work. They have the software team to make it happen in a much bigger way. The X360 BC was proof to me that not only do MS care about compatibility and retaining digital libraries, but they have the teams capable of pulling it off. The PS4 Neo being more or less a beefed up PS4 tells me that they needed to stick to the same architecture in order to maintain compatibility, and that could mean that a proper PS5 is another reboot. I simply trust MS more when it comes to properly handling an iterative ecosystem.
Click to expand...

I hadn't thought about it like that, although the BC is indeed impressive and I'm using it a lot more than expected.

For me to go back to a MS console as my main, MS would have to take the clunk out of the Xbox' OS. If the OS still feels bad, doesn't support languages in different regions well, I don't care about the teraflops, it'll just be a flop for me. Also, what does more power matter, when MS isn't investing as much in first party development?
 
So considering xbox exclusives now show up on PC wouldn't it just make more sense to upgrade your PC for about 400 to 500 dollar worth of parts and buy the Ps4 NEO to cover all your bases?
 
lowhighkang_LHK said:
So considering xbox exclusives now show up on PC wouldn't it just make more sense to upgrade your PC for about 400 to 500 dollar worth of parts and buy the Ps4 NEO to cover all your bases?
Click to expand...

Honestly the ps4 and xb1 both have way too much overlap with pc for the vast majority of their compelling titles to sway too many people who have gaming pcs

...Scatter... said:
He's sort of right. The power gap matters. People don't want to feel like they're playing inferior products given a choice.
Click to expand...

If they're playing on a console, they're playing inferior products for the overwhelming majority of titles. It's a near non factor for all but the fanboys wank wars that go on in DF threads
 
harSon said:
That's not the same at all.

The Xbox One is simply going to be a lesser powered console capable of playing all Xbox 1.5 games moving forward. It's going to be a lower price of entry for consumers into the Xbox ecosystem. Cross platform development and forward/backwards compatibility is the underlying essence of Microsoft's gameplan, and an iterative approach to Xbox fits that notion to a tee.

This isn't the same as Microsoft pulling the rug from underneath the original Xbox where manufacturing of the console completely ceased, and development for the platform internally dried up overnight.
Click to expand...

Who is going to buy an Xbox One this year if next year they can buy one that's four times as powerful for $100 more? At least if Sony announces the Neo at E3, the Neo will be coming out this year and will probably be framed as a second tier of PlayStation. Microsoft would have to significantly mark down the Xbox One *this year* to not have a negative impact on current sales.
 
lowhighkang_LHK said:
So considering xbox exclusives now show up on PC wouldn't it just make more sense to upgrade your PC for about 400 to 500 dollar worth of parts and buy the Ps4 NEO to cover all your bases?
Click to expand...

If you really wanted to cover your bases, you would have to get an NX as well. However, some people don't want to deal with PCs which is understandable.

I sold my Xbox One last year and I welcome this news about all future exclusives coming to PC. I do hope that they port some of their older titles like Sunset Overdrive that existed before the UWP push.
 
MS has been setting this up for years look at BC and tight coupling with win10.

If all games will work with 2 iterations of xbox and pc, that's a strong ecosystem.
 
eyeball_kid said:
Who is going to buy an Xbox One this year if next year they can buy one that's four times as powerful for $100 more? At least if Sony announces the Neo at E3, the Neo will be coming out this year and will probably be framed as a second tier of PlayStation. Microsoft would have to significantly mark down the Xbox One *this year* to not have a negative impact on current sales.
Click to expand...

I bet that's what the slim accomplishes. But really who cares? I already have an XBOX One. I don't care how many more they sell. I want Scorpio with One compatibility.
 
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