Agreed, I hope so too.
Scorpio in fall 2017 should be good timing for Zen, which hits the PC market late this year.
Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
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Agreed, I hope so too.
Scorpio in fall 2017 should be good timing for Zen, which hits the PC market late this year.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
Really seems like a developer nightmare. Seems the old models will start losing game support.
They will announce that all games will come to the old systems but it would take take long for exclusives to trickle and start happening often. Forced upgrades, don't doubt it.
They will announce that all games will come to the old systems but it would take take long for exclusives to trickle and start happening often. Forced upgrades, don't doubt it.
funkystudent
Member
If that extra power is used for 1080p then that could be quite something.
If MS really pushes everyone to go for 4k then I dunno. I dont plan on upgrading my TV before 2020 so for me that would be a waste.
If MS really pushes everyone to go for 4k then I dunno. I dont plan on upgrading my TV before 2020 so for me that would be a waste.
IcyRhythms
Member
If the Xbox One was more powerful, how could things be the same? The media has praised PS4 power, resolutions, and superior frame rates in some games for the last few years. There is no way things could be the same.
If the Xbox One was more powerful, had superior multiplats, and media praise, yes things would be much different. This generation is close to being the exact opposite of last generation. MS were the media darlings, had the most popular console(between them and Sony)AND superior multiplats. How this could even be denied is beyond me.
True, but we are still at the early increasing section of the curve, and not at the diminishing returns section.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
That's not my point. I'm simply interested in seeing how people respond to actually larger gaps and their perceived effects. Obviously, the thought of a 6TF machine is doing something, because there are attempts being made to handwave it, despite the fact that there are not even any solid specs.
The media had a lot of sources in 2012/13 about how much powerful the Durango was too. Secret sauces. Sonytoo. Exclusive 3rd party deals and support.
I'll take the healthy approach of waiting for stuff to be announced as I always do, but those ~6tflops are not going to be cheap if they end being true.
I'll take the healthy approach of waiting for stuff to be announced as I always do, but those ~6tflops are not going to be cheap if they end being true.
FalsettoVibe
Member
How is this thing gonna be 6TF? Isn't that faster than a 980ti? How will this thing be affordable?
DagnastyEp
Member
It'll be interesting to see what CPU and RAM configuration that put in Scorpio to go with the gpu.
IcyRhythms
Member
This is my concern as well. Open world games will still very much suffer with those CPU's.
How much will this thing cost
Until we start hearing rumors about the price, it's hard to say because we have no idea how they'll achieve it. Early days for all this, with some of the other rumors getting cleared up at E3, which could essentially confirm the existence of this box as well as what is being rumored for it.
mohsinkhan
Member
I know Klepek's sources at xbox are good... I anticipate more information coming out in the next few days.
Are we also counting Neo+PSVR as high end VR gaming as well regarding this statement? ;P
Zen CPU + Polaris (Vega???) GPU + relevant RAM setup = way too expensive.
If MS takes a big loss on hardware, à la PS3, then it can be possible.
Otherwise, we're looking at a beefy GPU upgrade + modest bump for CPU/RAM.
DanielJr82
Member
Will buy one if it's backwards compatible with Xbox One games. Cautiously excited!
Reagan's BR
Banned
Certainly what MS hopes for, plus revenue from XBL subs. I just need confirmation of all games working going forward as well as cross play.
I only hope that this move doesn't mean that most devs will simply release 1 UWP game for both PC and Xbox. I want to buy PC(win32) games as they are now. I'll only buy UWP/Xbox exclusives.
We really need an Xbox on PC thread.
Art Vandilay
Member
It will be. Phil has already said this.
This is essentially what Phil Spencer talked about during that media day back in February. They intend to never break compatibility going forward to avoid the typical generation restart with 0 content that we've seen the last few console releases.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
If the base Xbox One stops getting support once the NEXT iteration comes (the one after Scorpio) then that will have been around a 6-7 "generation" for Xbox One.
I see no issue with that. Especially when all those games will be backwards compatible forever.
I wish we could have a console (not a high-end gaming PC or steam machine, but a console where the exact hardware is targeted by devs) that was head and shoulders above the rest.
Like how this console was far above the Genesis, TurboGrafx-16 and SNES.
Wouldn't matter if the hardware was $800, the games would still be on cheap optical media, so wouldn't have Neo Geo cartridge prices.
Like how this console was far above the Genesis, TurboGrafx-16 and SNES.
Wouldn't matter if the hardware was $800, the games would still be on cheap optical media, so wouldn't have Neo Geo cartridge prices.
My super secret source (Phil's house cleaning lady) told me that backward compatibility is in for all future consoles.
it's really not that complicated. if the Xbox one still did the DRM 180, required Kinect, cost $500 BUT was more powerful than the PS4, would it have sold better?
In Q4 2017 I don't think will be more than $399.
That would be a resounding "Hell No!".
The only way an Xbox can sell better is if Sony fucks up with the PS4/NEO, similar to the PS3 launch.
This will never happen anytime soon; they've got a stranglehold on the global console market.
Proelite
Member
Mid end.
If anyone can subsidize the hell out of their hardware it'll be Microsoft, right?
I mean, MS has fat stacks. They could afford to dump the original Xbox to get the 360 out, I assume they can afford to dump the One to get this new thing out.
I'm not really sure how well Sony is doing right now, but I know that they were kind of struggling just a few years ago overall (gaming division's doing really well now obviously).
I mean, MS has fat stacks. They could afford to dump the original Xbox to get the 360 out, I assume they can afford to dump the One to get this new thing out.
I'm not really sure how well Sony is doing right now, but I know that they were kind of struggling just a few years ago overall (gaming division's doing really well now obviously).
Take your console warz glasses off.
6TF seems too generous because the plausibility of cramming that on a reasonably engineerable APU, in a reasonably console sized box, at a reasonable TDP, at a reasonable price, seems incredibly low.
That could be true if you only had to account for the cpugpu combo (and even then, I doubt it) but a console is made of more things that add to the cost too.
Unless you think Microsoft is willing to make a ps3 a take a big hit on every console sold... highly improbable.
Night Angel
Member
And there's the old warchest argument again. It took much longer than I thought.
Proelite
Member
Neo is doing 4.2 on a smaller APU than PS4. Clock a 300mm polaris apu at 1.2 to 1.4 ghz, it can do 6 tf easily.
Eh, they're not going to take huge losses on something like this again. They just wrote off pretty much the rest of their Windows Phone division for like $1 billion. They aren't working on a consumer facing product their anymore, just the enterprise stuff.
Why do people keep assuming it's going to cost more than the Neo? The Neo is likely going to cost less to produce than the PS4 did at launch, so a system more powerful than the Neo is going to be about on par with what the PS4/XBO cost to produce at launch. If the Neo is reaching 4TF on an APU smaller or similar in size to the PS4 APU, then an APU the size of the one in the XBO in 2017 could hit 6TF and have a better CPU if they ditch the ESRAM. All it means is that Sony will likely profit on each Neo while MS will lose money on the XB2 on par with or slightly more than what they lost on the XBO.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Money for Microsoft as a whole =/= Money on the Xbox division.
Their shareholders would have a fit if they go back to the loss-leading model just to "beat another competitor" in specs, etc.
Yes, but Nintendo potentially has a wildcard, if they see their patent(s) to fruition.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1150086
Yeah im hoping this ends up being a part of whats special about the system. That could kill some of this insane mid cycle "upgrades" nonsense. Why buy a whole new system when you can upgrade the one you got. Fingers crossed
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
I don't understand why they would unveil this soon only to launch late next year. Either it's coming a lot sooner than that or it's horse shit.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
If it's less powerful, it has to costs less unless Microsoft is willing to subsidize the console, which in this environment makes absolutely no sense and something they haven't shown much willingness to do.
Pathfinder
Member
So are we going to have a situation where 'the most powerful console' will be alternating every 12-18 months?
Probably.
ArkkAngel007
Member
This whole iterative direction seems terrible. Adding additional optimization work to devs, with foundation geared towards the lowest platform. Devs will have to be mindful that the 4-7 year cycle (which 4 nowadays can be short on the developer end) is now more around 3 to where they may have to shift work mid development to accommodate the possibility of a new iteration releasing.
On Microsoft's end, we have R&D costs split between two platforms, with the higher cost and likely more attractive system releasing less than a year to just over a year later. All while migrating the core attractions of these platforms to Window PCs, where likely those that the Scorpio would attract would already be invested into. Sony could end up doing similar steps. While these are more their concern, and have employed folks who look into these very things and get paid more than I ever expect to be, it still seems a major risk in a world where people are more focused on the all-in-one devices they carry with them always than set boxes.
Then you have to consider how the company's may escalate/accelerate the process in attempts to remain competitive.
From a competitive/business standpoint this makes sense, despite the risks. But as a consumer it's a mess.
On Microsoft's end, we have R&D costs split between two platforms, with the higher cost and likely more attractive system releasing less than a year to just over a year later. All while migrating the core attractions of these platforms to Window PCs, where likely those that the Scorpio would attract would already be invested into. Sony could end up doing similar steps. While these are more their concern, and have employed folks who look into these very things and get paid more than I ever expect to be, it still seems a major risk in a world where people are more focused on the all-in-one devices they carry with them always than set boxes.
Then you have to consider how the company's may escalate/accelerate the process in attempts to remain competitive.
From a competitive/business standpoint this makes sense, despite the risks. But as a consumer it's a mess.
Night Angel
Member
Probably because it'll cost more to produce, and most people aren't making the much larger assumption that MS will eat the cost to maintain price parity (something they refused to do with the XB1).
Proelite
Member
Is Neo confirmed to use 14nm Finfet instead of 14nmLPE? If not I can see MS having more power for cheaper since finfet allows for much higher clocks.
The conservative clock on Neo GPU makes me think its not Finfet.
wapplew
Member
But Xbox is Windows 10, they can have all the budget they want now.
Depends on existing game compatibility
Xbox division is in the Windows division as of about 2 years ago. Xbox hardware was moved to the Surface team last summer, a team who is now the Microsoft Hardware team, also under the umbrella of the Windows team.
In other words, Xbox is now on the tip of the spear for Windows. Arguably, they have more resources than they ever did before, but it's all about what's best for the Windows platform.
mohsinkhan
Member
Source? I am curiuous about this.
Welfare
Member
On mobile so can't quote multiple posts (too much of a hassle), but from last page, the PS4 is not leading because of power. Xbox One launched in significantly less countries than the PS4, and the few they did launch in, the system was $100 more expensive. That wrecked MS and even then price drops didn't save them because it was either too little too late, they reversed price drops, or they didn't do anything at all. Sony had the mind share thanks to the botched XB1 reveal, and the lower price after launch cemented its lead.
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