• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Trump v. Bernie Debate

Status
Not open for further replies.
Somnid said:
At some point you need to stop blaming Bernie for these problems and realize that Hillary is not doing a good job of courting people who are not exactly satisfied with the political system as is stands. And it's kinda obnoxious to complain to them that Bernie "isn't following the script". Dislike of the other candidate is not a good anchor for a party, if Hillary loses it won't be because of Bernie but because she failed to cater to enough of the voting base, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
That implies those Bernie voters would vote for her. Trump ain't doing a good job at courting them but you got some saying they'll vote for him. Unless he is doing a good job then those people truly wasn't going to vote dem in first place
 
patjburns89 said:
N41SbXe.jpg


I don't know. Sounds pretty evil to me.
Click to expand...

I'm sure those are just a couple of bad apples and supporting the current system is fine. money doesnt make you evil, it just gives you the motivation, means, and leeway to do evil without getting in trouble. :^)
 
Heavy_D206 said:
I'm talking way past Hillary or Trump, I think Bernie's ideas can shape the future 50-100 years from now.

The more TV time he gets the better we all are for it. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

I am so sick of this insinuation. This country has been consistently moving to the left for years now and will continue to do so, hopefully. Sanders and Clinton are so identical on many issues, but this god damn narrative keeps being pushed that Bernie is the only one that will bring change, like Clinton doesn't share the same ideals and will do jack shit for the country.

What you people are really complaining about is the rate at which this change is recognized, which at this point is going as fast as it can given the current political climate and congress, but unless it's at light speed, Bernie supporters think Hillary is a radically different candidate with regard to ideals. I hate this.
 
I still think people expecting this to be the Bernie and Trump old fashioned Anti-Clinton power hour are going to be disappointed. Bernie hates money in politics. Clinton is the politics, but Trump is the money. I don't think Bernie is going to do things that he knows would help Trump. And if Trump decides to not attack Bernie all debate, I'll think he'll be blindsided.

I imagine some kind of #NastyBernie coming from Trump's Twitter in the still unlikely event that this debate happens.
 
patjburns89 said:
If it weren't for 2008, the 2016 democratic primary has been one of the closest contests in years. 2008 was insanely close. 2016 has been very close.

Also, I think most Sanders supporters like myself obviously realize Hillary is going to be the nominee. But I also want Sanders to stay in, because it gives him the avenue for his votes and say to go into the democrats platform. We've seen them actually try and show some unity after giving Bernie the cold shoulder for months.

I think if Bernie gets some tenants of his platform onto the democrats platform at large, it would be huge not only for the country, but would go a long way to ensuring Trump gets routed come November.
Click to expand...

It's really not been that close. The schedules drawn it out a bit and the media narrative coupled with a highly active support base for Sanders has made seem like more of a horse race, but essentially as a contest it was over in March.
 
Coffee Dog said:
I'm sure those are just a couple of bad apples and supporting the current system is fine. money doesnt make you evil, it just gives you the motivation, means, and leeway to do evil without getting in trouble. :^)
Click to expand...

Haha, indeed. Working in the financial industry over the last three years has been a real eye opening experience. The truly funny thing is that making the banks smaller and breaking them up would cut down the amount of regulatory oversight greatly.
 
patjburns89 said:
N41SbXe.jpg


I don't know. Sounds pretty evil to me.
Click to expand...

They are products of their environment. Instead of wagging the finger and calling them evil, realize and accept they are merely the amalgamation of what you're calling evil.

Attack the beliefs and systems that produce this behavior. I think that's what royalan was getting at. Wall Street itself is not a place where devils go to play, but a place that merely produces devils due to various social circumstances and ideas.

When your goal is to make a paper goodie, and you're in an environment that literally says "be scorched earth about it," what do you think is going to happen?
 
RustyNails said:
She already did. She gave conceded a much bigger DNC platform to Bernie than she should have (5 votes for him vs her 6). Despite Bernie going to lose resoundingly. At some point Bernie needs to stop. He has no path. He lost. And at SOME POINT he has to start bridging the divide between his ardent supporters and the democratic party.
Click to expand...

If that pleases them then great, if not, well, too bad try again. Bernie doesn't owe her favors her and the calls for party unity are falling pretty flat mostly as political parties are seen as disenfranchising power institutions to these people. People will vote for what they want, not against what other people don't want. The irony being when poll numbers looked bad Bernie supporters found everything they could to blame outside of Bernie, they were told to knock it off, and this is just Hillary supporters going through a similar cycle. Bernie doesn't need a path to win, I'm sure he understands he'd not going to win. He just needs a way to continue to float his ideals. Whether those are officially adopted as the platform, pave the way for other candidates, or if he just keeps seeding it into the public that's what he will do. As far as Trump goes, he's willing cater to these people at least at surface level because he at least shares something with them. Hillary needs to be doing that.

Prototype Viktor said:
That implies those Bernie voters would vote for her. Trump ain't doing a good job at courting them but you got some saying they'll vote for him. Unless he is doing a good job then those people truly wasn't going to vote dem in first place
Click to expand...

There are some that either feel too burned by recent campaigns or just plain do not like Hillary Clinton, but Bernie or bust isn't some gigantic majority of Bernie voters. And if this is unreconcilable then perhaps we are saying that a 2 party system is broken as it cannot cater to a diverse mass of people.
 
Wow, Hillary done fucked up.

patjburns89 said:
N41SbXe.jpg


I don't know. Sounds pretty evil to me.
Click to expand...

My wife is a high school english teacher. Her pension is secured via moderate investments made on Wall Street. Evil?
We bought a house in 2008, Wall Street provided our mortgage. Evil?
I bought a car in 2009, Wall Street backed my loan. Evil?
My parents are 65 and are planning to retire in a few years with contributions that they've made to a 401k and Roth IRA for the last 30 or 40 years. Those investments are made through Wall Street. Had they stuffed their cash into a mattress since 1972, they would have about 1/100th the investment that they have now. Evil?
My job paid me last night. My job exists because in the 1980s investors backed the company that I work for today. THere are about 100,000,000 or more Americans also in this situation, whose jobs would not exist without investment bankers, insurance, and the circulatory-like system that they provide for our way of life.

Now, my point isn't that "Wall Street Isn't Evil," but rather that you can take anecdotes from all Americans and while the "Wall Street gave me a loan I couldn't afford!" stories certainly make them seem evil, there have been hundreds of millions more Americans whose lives are improved markedly because of the machinations of "Wall Street." This is the reason investment banks have existed for centuries. If investment banks only did evil things, they would have been outlawed by every civilized country in the world. Instead, every civilized country in the world has investment banks.
 
patjburns89 said:
Haha, indeed. Working in the financial industry over the last three years has been a real eye opening experience. The truly funny thing is that making the banks smaller and breaking them up would cut down the amount of regulatory oversight greatly.
Click to expand...

By creating more banks to oversee?
 
Somnid said:
At some point you need to stop blaming Bernie for these problems and realize that Hillary is not doing a good job of courting people who are not exactly satisfied with the political system as is stands. And it's kinda obnoxious to complain to them that Bernie "isn't following the script". Dislike of the other candidate is not a good anchor for a party, if Hillary loses it won't be because of Bernie but because she failed to cater to enough of the voting base, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
I never fail to be amazed by people defending Bernie Sanders by criticizing Hillary Clinton for an inability to court votes when Bernie Sanders ignored and publicly devalued an entire region of the United States and the minorities living therein. When Bernie Sanders failed to court enough votes to keep him from being down by three million of them. But you guys turn around and act like he would be a perfect candidate in the GE.

Really.
 
Foffy said:
They are products of their environment. Instead of wagging the finger and calling them evil, realize and accept they are merely the amalgamation of what you're calling evil.

Attack the beliefs and systems that produce this behavior. I think that's what royalan was getting at. Wall Street itself is not a place where devils go to play, but a place that merely produces devils due to various social circumstances and ideas.

When your goal is to make a paper goodie, and you're in an environment that literally says "be scorched earth about it," what do you think is going to happen?
Click to expand...

I think that's what the Sanders campaign is exactly doing. Saying the structure that allows them to operate freely is quite wrong. For people to say g that big business and capitalism doesn't propagate the myths of American exceptionalism and "if you just work hard enough, you can do it!" is crazy to me.

Clinton herself said "Will breaking up the big banks solve racism and sexism?"

It won't, obviously. But you see how the way the game is rigged right now, and how the example I showed you is proof positive the rich and powerful will target the lesser-off.

Whether it's payday lending, union busting, a lack of a living wage. The whole system is set up right now to widen the gap between the rich and the poor.
 
rob305 said:
LOL and people still thinking hillary would be a good president. Props to bern and even to the don for this
Click to expand...

I don't see how her avoiding a debate like this discredits her. She's already debated Sanders, and will eventually debate Trump.

patjburns89 said:
I think that's what the Sanders campaign is exactly doing. Saying the structure that allows them to operate freely is quite wrong. For people to say g that big business and capitalism doesn't propagate the myths of American exceptionalism and "if you just work hard enough, you can do it!" is crazy to me.

Clinton herself said "Will breaking up the big banks solve racism and sexism?"

It won't, obviously. But you see how the way the game is rigged right now, and how the example I showed you is proof positive the rich and powerful will target the lesser-off.

Whether it's payday lending, union busting, a lack of a living wage. The whole system is set up right now to widen the gap between the rich and the poor.
Click to expand...

True, but of course the question arises to what we can do about it? We can put laws and order in place to mitigate it, but that only punishes the behavior, not the beliefs and conceptions one adheres to that become the ammunition for their firearms, so to speak.

I would argue it's a problem of ideas, especially of thoughts held onto in the mind. You can only consider a person as a "mud" person and prone to exploit if you look at the world in a lens of division, to infer a hierarchy, and no law breaks that illusion. Laws would prevent them from being predators, but should we not curb what produces the predating? And how would one even produce self-inquiry on a societal level without it being hijacked by people to turn it fringe or cultish? You could just as easily create a new group of predators and a new lens of inferred hierarchy.

We can wag our fingers and tell people to not be shitlords, but so long as people think in ways that infer delusion, that's the ground in which a shitlord can be grown. I'm interested if there's a way to solve this without making it a whack-a-mole, because that's all we seem to come up with, and the moles only look for new holes.
 
Aaronology said:
I never fail to be amazed by people defending Bernie Sanders by criticizing Hillary Clinton for an inability to court votes when Bernie Sanders ignored and publicly devalued an entire region of the United States and the minorities living therein. When Bernie Sanders failed to court enough votes to keep him from being down by three million of them. But you guys turn around and act like he would be a perfect candidate in the GE.

Really.
Click to expand...

Don't direct your bitterness at me. Votes are votes, Bernie has almost certainly lost because he didn't position correctly and there's nothing to say Hillary may not make a similar mistake.
 
can this actually happen? I want to see the debates that could have been. Bernie against Hillary has been pretty pedestrian. both used their kids gloves against each other because they're fairly similar. I feel like Bernie would dig in a bit more against Trump.
 
rob305 said:
She chickened out of the Sanders debate, not exactly a presidential feature
Click to expand...

"Chickened out" implies she feels threatened by Bernie.

More like "she didn't want to waste her time and resources bothering with a meaningless debate because the majority of Californian voters vote early and the election is already over"
 
AngmarsKing701 said:
Would GAF explode if there was a Trump/Sanders ticket vs. Clinton?

I mean, I really don't put anything past Trump at this point.
Click to expand...

I think you are all forgetting that Bernie hates Trump above all else. Trump might see this as a chance to gang up on Hillary, and that may happen, but Bernie is going to give him a grilling.

The Hillary inferiority complex brigade needs to stop lumping both of her opponents together.
 
Fat4all said:
Trump knows he ain't gonna be going against Sanders in Nov, so there's no reason to attack him.
Click to expand...
Well, they both agree on certain issues like foreign policies and how money is managed. Should be an interesting debate all things considered.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
"Chickened out" implies she feels threatened by Bernie.

More like "she didn't want to waste her time and resources bothering with a meaningless debate because the majority of Californian voters vote early and the election is already over"
Click to expand...

Yeah right. She has more to lose than to win, a bad debate from her side could increase berns momentum even more. Shes afraid to take that risk, aka chickening out
 
rob305 said:
Yeah right. She has more to lose than to win, a bad debate from her side could increase berns momentum even more. Shes afraid to take that risk, aka chickening out
Click to expand...

If she had more to lose than to win by skipping the debate, she'd do the debate.

What would Bernie's "momentum" mean at all in June when there's only a handful of primaries left that Hillary can lose, by a lot, and still secure the nomination?
 
massoluk said:
WTF is this bullshit. I expected this from Trump, but Bernie better not be serious about this.
Click to expand...

A bitter, desperate old career politician. Who's finally got the spot light he believes he deserves. And will do anything to stay on the national stage even if it means sabotaging every bit of progress Obama managed to squeeze out of the last 8 Years. And set this country tumbling backwards for the next 20 years.

Bernie Sanders is a piece of shit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Is Trump dead?
2
55
1K
EviLore replied
A new hat is thrown into (or removed from) Neogafs eternal debate
2
50
760
TheInfamousKira replied
V for Vendetta - 20th Anniversary Announcement Trailer (2026)
27
535
DeepEnigma replied
We’re getting another V/H/S flick
15
424
Revolutionary replied
  • Locked
EA selling to Saudi and Kushner? I thought Trump wanted businesses to stay in the US?
18
508
ChuckeRearmed replied
Top Bottom