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Trump v. Bernie Debate

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How did this thread ever make it to 800 posts on the premise that a presumptive republican nominee would accept a debate invitation on a late night talk show from a failing democratic primary candidate with the whole thing being offered to be hosted by FOX or TYT.

Took a nap last night and woke up to the news, thought I was taking crazy pills for even humoring the thought.
 
Again, how does this look bad for Bernie, who literally only responded to Trump offering a debate with "yeah okay."

Because the media will paint it as him being willing to follow Trump's lead on something, only to be rejected anyways. It was a "yeah ok", but it'll be hyped as something far more. It doesn't make him look strong, and worse, it degrades him in the eyes of loyal democrats. This will be painted as another desperate and failed move by the media, just like the pope thing was.
 
Years of Democrats snatched defeat from the jaws of victory have made people nervous and irrational.

To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.
 
Probably got warned by his friend Hillary. Sanders destroyed her in every single debate, which is also why she is scared to do another lol
 
I came in here because I was excited about the debate, but as I read through the messages I'm reminded this forum is a fucking mess when it comes to politics. I don't even know how to talk to people in here about this shit anymore because its a bunch of lunatics screaming into the wind, most of whom are willingly turning a blind eye to the flaws and weaknesses of their candidates.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.

Because Trump and Bernie have soooo much in common policy wise.
 
You know what will happen?

Both Trump and Sanders will spend the whole time trashing Hillary.

And Trump's cronies will be drinking beers with Bernie's Bros.... they will come together, join forces, an unholy union of anti-establishment hatred.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.
Trust me, we can tell. But if you wanna throw your vote away for a guy that's never governed anything in his life, be my guest.
 
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.

Would you look at that? Some common sense accidentally dropped in all this noise.

Edit: Kind of reminds me how brutal the GOP was to John Kerry and even to John McCain when W. Bush was running. As harsh as that was, McCain went right around and supported Bush when the dust settled. Nothing is personal in politics, only online forums.
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.

Well said. Thanks for writing all of this out. For the most part, agreed.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.
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Probably got warned by his friend Hillary. Sanders destroyed her in every single debate, which is also why she is scared to do another lol

Lol

Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.

I don't understand Bernie people who say this. Your next choice after Bernie is the guy who represents everything Bernie can't stand?
 
Nah just observing.

Can't say I'm thrilled about any candidates.

It is absolutely fascinating though to watch and see self-proclaimed liberals/progressives acting like Republicans this election season in how they defend their shitty candidate.

Glad we both agree about Bernie.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.

This is why I don't worry too much about Bernie supporters affecting Hillary in the GE
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.

Good stuff.
 
They have been nervous and upset for a very long time. Their candidate is historically-unpopular, not personable, and ridden with scandals. I think they should just be patient a few more weeks, wait for the convention, and the inevitable endorsement from Bernie Sanders, but they seem incapable of that, so you get name-calling and hyperbole. Sanders worse than Cruz or Rubio? LOL. Someone actually posted that.
Yup tons of blind hatred from hillary gaf
He has been smelling his own farts for so long that not enough oxygen has gone to his brain.

Imagine if Hillary did this shit if Bernie was the presumptive nominee.

I am honestly starting to hate this egotistical old man.
Prime example
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.

::slow clap::
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.

Excellent post, thanks for putting out there how a lot of us feel. I still in good conscience can not vote for Hillary however.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.
I appreciate your brief, year long foray in to American politics.
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.

Holy shit what a powerful post.

Stay Vigilant, you Walrus.
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.
Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself. He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.
She might just thatcher him and not move an inch, or the party might give him something he really sees as valuable.
Hillary also has a chance of moving on some position like nation wide legalization of weed or acknowledge that steps needs to be taken with Israel.
I'm not worried that Sanders hurt Clinton. Registered dems love Clinton, and when Obama comes out and endorses her, she got this thing covered. It's going to be fine.
More people should support Sanders in doing his thing. Clinton is a big girl who can handle it. Sanders being uncomfortable about her speech fees is a warm up to what Trump is gonna do to her. And in the end, Sanders has dedicated himself to stopping Trump, and republican leadership values for 30 years.
It really strikes me as childish that people become so offended over their candidate being jabbed at. Clinton was fucking vile against Obama in 08. It's just the nature of the beast, and particularly when you're the unknown underdog you use whatever guerilla tactics you have. That is just the nature of being a political insurgent.
If Sanders run third party.. I just don't see it. What he really should do is to try and create a social democratic faction within the democratic party or make his own party and carry on the grassroots movement. I have my doubts if many Sanders supporters are really in it for the long haul. I'd find it weak if they are not dedicated beyond the election.
Sanders himself has said that him being president without a massive, massive political uprising is not gonna change shit. His opponents will be proven right if Sanders movement doesn't live on after that. They could start with helping the fast food workers get to be unionized and spreading the minimum wage issue. I still think Sanders is a good guy. He is not out to destroy the dems. Non establishment just have radical ideas, many of whom will never go into fruition, but if the past is an indicator, what he is championing now may be picked up by others within the party years from now. The liberty party was incredible important in shaping of progress in America, and this can be seen in other countries as well.

Great post. People should be less concerned about potential radicalization of others and probably look a little hard to see if they are being radicalized themselves. This isn't personal, Sander's isn't going to lock-step with the system because he doesn't like it and that should be perfectly acceptable and a bit expected. He's not going to endorse Trump over Hillary, but he's not going to just give up and go home because he's not the nom, he's gained enough to start making some demands and get his ideals noticed.
 
To be true, the hate and condemnation on independents go wayyy back. A lot of the most significant progress that ever happened was born out of independents who championed progressive ideas which was eventually picked up by one of the two major parties.
The squashing of the little guy is a staple of American democracy, and is one of the reasons how the people itself creates the circumstances for two-party politics. This is not an American thing, but more a indicator of what happens when people get trapped in a cult personality. That can happen when people align their being and their values with that of the group they have signed up with, and then anything else is the opposition.

Not really. It's an American thing.

It's a symbol of how first past the post voting has worked in this country.

As for hate and condemnation on independents? I'm confused.

I'd argue that it is the job of an insurgent to disrupt the status quo, whatever one may think of that. And in doing that, a lot of things are being done to make themselves someone who can not be ignored.

Like causing disruptions at party conventions? Assailing the party as corrupt only in circumstances where you lose? (Why doesn't Bernie talk about Utah?)

Let us remember that the democratic party blaming Nader on Gore losing is a lie itself has created. In truth, Gore didn't have the chops to be president, and in doing so, the party blamed Nader, the independent with 3% of the votes as the deciding factor. It chose to ignore that Gore would have president had he just won his own state. It chose to ignore that Americas two party structure has created the bedlam for choosing a moderate president as the winner, due it being able to pull deciding votes from across the aisle.

It was the Supreme Court's fault. That's the consensus.

Some people blamed Nader, but most people rightfully put it on the Court. Gore won. That's something you are choosing to ignore.

I just don't buy the whole idealogy that Sanders is this egotistical career politician who is only out for himself.

What has he accomplished in his years in the Senate? Anything? Anything?

Nothing. That's the definition of an egotistical career politician. Not doing or trying to do shit in office. Just standing on your ideological horse.


He knows he has lost. What he is doing is trying to be a rabble rouser so the dems won't ignore him. He want more, and so far Hillary is not sweating far enough to give Bernie some more goodies.

The party owes Bernie nothing after his various shenanigans:

A. Shitting on Planned Parenthood.
B. Shitting on the party as corrupt.
C. Rosario Dawson & Killer Mike's comments. (which he endorsed.)
 
What an absolute fuckhead Bernie is for trying to engage in a political debate in a democracy. Who does he think he is?

But it will hurt an historically unfavorable presumptive democratic nominee that's currently being investigated by the FBI.

Seriously, the freak out here says so much more about Clinton as a candidate than anything else.
 
I'll never understand those who claim to be all about Bernie's policy vision while also stating ambivalence about a judiciary that would suffocate it for decades.

Something doesn't click. But at this point, I don't expect a substantial answer. Y'all dodge the issue every time.
 
I think Hillary supporters need to be careful to not treat the bernie discussion the same way that an elitist atheist would handle a discussion about religion. the more you do to facepalm and completely dismiss peoples concerns as not even worth addressing or a total joke, the more you are going to drive them away from ever being able to see anything that brings them to where you are. I think Hillary's campaign would also do well to heed to this since the more they just dismiss things, for example being under investigation by the FBI looking bad, the less likely it is for people to realize the reality of all these situations. People dont like to be laughed off when they have a concern they believe is legitimate, it feels condescending and as though they arent being understood.

I'll never understand those who claim to be all about Bernie's policy vision while also stating ambivalence about a judiciary that would suffocate it for decades.

Something doesn't click. But at this point, I don't expect a substantial answer. Y'all dodge the issue every time.

Couldn't you apply that to almost any president that doesnt also preside during a majority rule by the same party?

Im already camp hillary but just saying, couldnt you say that someone shouldnt support a potential president obama because he wouldnt have the other branches to back up his visions?
 
But it will hurt an historically unfavorable presumptive democratic nominee that's currently being investigated by the FBI.

Seriously, the freak out here says so much more about Clinton as a candidate than anything else.
No one is concerned about the email scandal except the people that want her to be arrested for it
 
Question to HillGAF, who would you rather have as a president?

Bernie of course. Why would I want a Republican as president?

I was pro Bernie when his campaign first started up but I switched to Hillary because her stances and political objectives align with my values and wants.
 
Jesus. GAF has a lot of Hillary supporters.
Honestly I would rather vote for trump than for Hillary. Bernie was my 1st choice but looks like I won't be voting at all. Shame because it was going to be my first time voting.
Please don't even contemplate voting to fuck minorities and women and LGBT people just because you're not thrilled with the Democratic candidate. A racist buffoon is not in fact a reasonable alternative to a career politician, no matter how unlikable and mendacious she might seem.
 
I don't know how anyone can hand wave the emails. She mishandled top secret information, that isn't up for debate and is a big lack of information control. She also got herself into this mess by having a private email server installed into her home with lacking security. That shows an extreme lack of tech understanding, reliability, and overall judgement.

And this is someone we should be electing to lead our country on the world stage... Why?
 
I'll never understand those who claim to be all about Bernie's policy vision while also stating ambivalence about a judiciary that would suffocate it for decades.

Something doesn't click. But at this point, I don't expect a substantial answer. Y'all dodge the issue every time.

I think the problem here is that you expect rational logic from the bernie or bust crowd
 
I don't know how anyone can hand wave the emails. She mishandled top secret information, that isn't up for debate and is a big lack of information control. She also got herself into this mess by having a private email server installed into her home with lacking security. That shows an extreme lack of tech understanding, reliability, and overall judgement.

And this is someone we should be electing to lead our country on the world stage... Why?

Because there's to options and she's better than the other. Duh.
 
I'll never understand those who claim to be all about Bernie's policy vision while also stating ambivalence about a judiciary that would suffocate it for decades.

Something doesn't click. But at this point, I don't expect a substantial answer. Y'all dodge the issue every time.
Simple, none of them give a fuck about the Supreme Court. They just want the guy that'll make them feel more liberal-than-thou.
 
They have been nervous and upset for a very long time. Their candidate is historically-unpopular, not personable, and ridden with scandals. I think they should just be patient a few more weeks, wait for the convention, and the inevitable endorsement from Bernie Sanders, but they seem incapable of that, so you get name-calling and hyperbole. Sanders worse than Cruz or Rubio? LOL. Someone actually posted that.
I dunno. I see a lot more "lol HillGAF" and "why so serious" posts from Sanders and Trump supporters, as opposed to serious considerations of consequences, discussion about possible outcomes, and political strategy—items which are offered by PoliGAF.

From a logical standpoint, Sanders is worse than Cruz or Rubio. Those men folded when they looked at the math of reality and realized they couldn't succeed. Strategically they assisted their party and their cause by withdrawing from the race. They gave Donald Trump time to build and iterate his strategy and resources.

In this election, Sanders is dead weight. He's not contributing to the progressive cause anymore. He's wasting the party's and Hillary's resources. He won't admit he's lost, which means he has an even bigger ego problem than Cruz and Rubio. And his erratic behavior can possibly assist the opponent.

Sanders supporters won't admit that Sanders is a sore loser flailing about for nothing either. All they are doing is sniping at Hillary in their bitterness because she is winning legitimately and the majority is actually choosing her. It's ironic that not a single thread can go without them sneering about "HillGAF", but they can't stand being called Berniebros.
 
I think Hillary supporters need to be careful to not treat the bernie discussion the same way that an elitist atheist would handle a discussion about religion. the more you do to facepalm and completely dismiss peoples concerns as not even worth addressing or a total joke, the more you are going to drive them away from ever being able to see anything that brings them to where you are. I think Hillary's campaign would also do well to heed to this since the more they just dismiss things, for example being under investigation by the FBI looking bad, the less likely it is for people to realize the reality of all these situations. People dont like to be laughed off when they have a concern they believe is legitimate, it feels condescending and as though they arent being understood.



Couldn't you apply that to almost any president that doesnt also preside during a majority rule by the same party?

Im already camp hillary but just saying, couldnt you say that someone shouldnt support a potential president obama because he wouldnt have the other branches to back up his visions?

I am being completely honest, it is interesting to me that Bernie supporters come off as condescending and elitist--I reference calling blacks voting for Hillary as ill-informed--it seems like Bernie supporters can't take their own medicine. But when Hillary supporters do something it get seen as "attacking the small guys." I am a voter with an opinion, and so are the people on the other side.
 
I do not think Bernie or Trump have the temper to be President.

They are both emotionally hotheaded.

With that said, I think Bernie is more likely to unilaterally disarm than to fire the nukes, so he would get my vote.
 
No one is concerned about the email scandal except the people that want her to be arrested for it

so what percentage of the electorate is that, more or less?

I am being completely honest, it is interesting to me that Bernie supporters come off as condescending and elitist--I reference calling blacks voting for Hillary as ill-informed--it seems like Bernie supporters can't take their own medicine. But when Hillary supporters do something it get seen as "attacking the small guys." I am a voter with an opinion, and so are the people on the other side.

Yeah thats fine but when the goal (especially for me as a latino immigrant) is to coalesce around our nominee, we aren't going to get anywhere on those opinions when someone says "I don't like that Hillary X" , and the response is "Nobody cares about that unless they're dumb." It just isn't a sufficient or productive response or attitude. Everyone is welcome to be whatever they want though of course
 
This would have been great for both Bernie and Trump. Bernie gets media attention he doesn't have the money to buy anymore, he gets to attack somebody that is, politically, like his mortal enemy, and he comes out being given legitimacy.

That Trump thought this was a good idea before his handlers stepped is baffling.

Trump doesn't have handlers. He has mostly yes men.

Any handlers he has are for his businesses not his campaign.
 
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