Polygon: Xbox Scorpio will be a ~6 TFLOP system (v PS4K's 4.14), unveil soon, Fall 17

JayWood2010 said:
That is very nice if true. Xbox already has great games, and they have really pushed for AAA games this generation. will definitely buy Scorpio

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Sony must be busy going back to the drawing board for Neo
 
pj said:
I would like to look at power draw/bandwidth. Do you have those figures?

If these consoles don't need the super high end bandwidth that HBM2 can provide, why would they use that instead of cheaper/more well known GDDR5X? What exactly would be the power savings?
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Sorry my google fu is really bad so I fail at digging up wherever I read all this stuff last year.

Anyhow it comes down to HBM having a much lower operating voltage (which means lower power consumption, I believe about 50 percent lower power consumption for hbm and another 10 percent for hbm2)
HBM memory has an insanely wide memory bus, allowing it to run at very low clockspeeds while still having very high bandwidth.

By saying 'you have to look at power draw/bandwidth' I mean that it only makes sense to compare power consumption at the same bandwidth.

As there's no need for a ridiculous 1200GB/s memory bandwidth (for context the ps4 has like 176GB/s) you can run the memory at a much lower clockspeed which means more power savings.
 
pj said:
I would like to look at power draw/bandwidth. Do you have those figures?

If these consoles don't need the super high end bandwidth that HBM2 can provide, why would they use that instead of cheaper/more well known GDDR5X? What exactly would be the power savings?
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Vega comes with HBM2 and Vega probably makes the 6tf xbox target possible. The question is can AMD deliver vega in 2017?
 
I'm curious to see where the specs and price point end up when this is officially unveiled. I know I will end upgrading, but I want to try and wait past the initial launch. So many good deals to be had by waiting.
 
thelastword said:
No it's not, PS3 was more powerful.



As for the OP, a 6TFlop xbox?, but at what cost to consumers? How much will MS charge for it. If Sony goes for a 4.14 TF unit and MS has 6.0TF console, will MS charge $600 for it against PS4 Neo's at $400?
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Yes, there is a linear proportionality between power and price and especially price doesn't change over time in electronics.
 
Hoo-doo said:
You know that statement could be interpreted in every way you could possibly want. That's the beauty of PR-speak.

If they were coming out with a 2x power increase, you bet your ass that they would be marketing it as a tremendous leap in performance. A paradigm shift even, a new level, a new generation, a new world full of immersion.

That shit writes itself.
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All I'm saying is he didn't explicitly say what Inuhanyou wrote.

I agree there is a lot of room for interpretation, so it's a little weird seeing someone draw conclusions at this point based on his vague directional vision and a leak.
 
Markoman said:
Not true, if AMD TFlops. The GTX 1080 shits on this no matter how you turn it.
Next year we're going to have the OC 1080s, maybe 1080ti...
If we are talking 5-6TFlops AMD, then it's somewhere in the ballpark above GTX970, maybe around GTX980.

I consider 980ti, Titan, 1070, 1080 as top GFX right now...in late 2017 this might change.
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Yeah, expect vega (end of this year or q1 next year) to be 12+++ TF

That's not to shit on a 6TF amd gpu in a console , that is quite respectable performance for 2016 (a lot more respectable than 1.2 TF was in 2013)
It's more performance than the midrange gpu in my pc.
 
I find the redesigned controller part interesting.

It seems they're trying anything to get their mojo back.


Well, I didn't want this to happen, but now that both sides are firing, I guess this is now the new norm. Time to buy new consoles again.
 
KampferZeon said:
Increase die size ===== increase power draw
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Quite false, at least as so hard a rule. For one example, Intel used larger integrated GPUs on Macbook Air class devices to provide slightly better performance for slightly lower power draw compared to the previous generation.

As in, you can use added die size to do the opposite and bring down power. So if you're not going for that, and both increasing power draw and die size, the two effects multiply each other. Would it need more cooling? Perhaps, though the XBO already uses an overkill system that could possibly handle the wattage.

Larger chips can mean higher power draw, but it's usually because larger chips are going for maximum performance. The two aren't necessarily linked.

Another example, see how small, high clocked ARM chips in phones are doing compared to Apples custom large, high IPC, lower clock speed cores on throttling and per-core performance.

Larger die, less heat, less throttling than the small die size cores.

And going from 28nm to 14nm, plus maybe removing the eSRAM, it wouldn't even necessarily be larger than the XBOs current APU which is a large 363mm2
 
This is a good thing. These consoles, especially the Xbox One is really weak. These things are still cheaper and more user friendly than a PC, and hopefully they will keep supporting physical games for more value.
 
Price and cooling would be interesting to know. Sounds great from the raw power but even 599 Dollar is pretty unlikely unless it's heavily subsidised.
 
c0de said:
Yes, there is a linear proportionality between power and price and especially price doesn't change over time in electronics.
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More TF in this case could mean a larger GPU, larger GPUs cost more money to fab, though they might offset this with projecting improved yields in 2017 but Sony can just drop the price as a response. There is also other factors. MS's weaker APU for the Xbox One was significantly more expensive to produce thanks to MS's memory architecture. We don't know how all of this will pan out but we do know that pricing will be in Sony's favour unless they decide to upgrade the Neo.
 
Stallion Dan said:
Games take too long to make now for short gens. When in order for a game to not be either lacking content or a technical mess it needs ~3 years, a 5 year gen is a joke.
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Good news is, now that everyone has finally agreed/standardized on x86, we can make games and basically just adjust the quality settings as new platforms come out ala PS4 / PS4k
 
Leflus said:
Mainline Halo games are on three year dev cycles.

Next year will be reserved for Perfect Dark's glorious return. Believe.
I don't believe. :(
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I thought it would be three years by then, my mistake. Feels like two already.

Perfect Dark does need another shot. Probably another Halo if Gears is this year and they don't have another action IP to sell along with Forza.
 
Has anyone done the research to know if the 6 vs. 4.14 tflops is actually possible given that both companies are using AMD? It seems odd to me that if two companies are looking at the chips available within a range of time that one would opt for 4.14, when the possibility of 6 is available. Unless the 6 is extremely cost prohibitive, and MSFT is eating the cost as a hail mary to get back into the generation, but that seems like a reach.
 
Compsiox said:
I think it's going to come out this Fall. Not 2017.
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I've noticed you've said this at least a couple of times, and others have as well. I'm curious though if this is even possible. I'd personally love to see it happen, even it released around the end of November/early December.
 
Maybesew said:
Has anyone done the research to know if the 6 vs. 4.14 tflops is actually possible given that both companies are using AMD? It seems odd to me that if two companies are looking at the chips available within a range of time that one would opt for 4.14, when the possibility of 6 is available. Unless the 6 is extremely cost prohibitive, and MSFT is eating the cost as a hail mary to get back into the generation, but that seems like a reach.
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The AMD Vega should be capable of it. Its a difference in philosophy. Sony wants a step up machine to extend the generation, Microsoft is starting next gen. That is the design difference.
 
Maybesew said:
Has anyone done the research to know if the 6 vs. 4.14 tflops is actually possible given that both companies are using AMD? It seems odd to me that if two companies are looking at the chips available within a range of time that one would opt for 4.14, when the possibility of 6 is available. Unless the 6 is extremely cost prohibitive, and MSFT is eating the cost as a hail mary to get back into the generation, but that seems like a reach.
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Sony wants to release this year, that's the only reason I presume.
 
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