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Trump v. Bernie Debate

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Drewton said:
This is the final push now up until the middle of June for Bernie to win with an admittedly small chance but a chance nevertheless to win, and he still clearly wants to win the nomination, why shouldn't that be the focus now that it's the end?
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Because the focus needs to be on the fact that the GOP didn't implode and has unified behind Trump terrifyingly quickly.

Are you even familiar with how politics works in this country? Have you not been paying attention for the last 8 years? What in that period of time has lead you to believe that Sanders; A) could get elected. And B) should he get elected, be able to enact his policy anyway?

Will he still have his supporters and their enthusiasm show up for the midterms in the likely event he gets blocked from doing anything in the first 2 years? Will they show up to give him a second term?

Whatever effect he was going to have over this race is over with. The longer this drags out, the more divisive it gets. He needs to bow out and endorse now before anything stupid happens, like a debate between him and Trump.

I would absolutely say the same if Hillary didn't have a shot and he was the frontrunner.
 
Mael said:
I'm not downplaying that, my point is that this vote is the alpha and omega of every reason to vote for/against someone.
We had people who were against the Iraq that were downright shitheels the world over, that doesn't make them good people because they were against it.
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It's the most important thing Hillary ever had a chance to vote on. She failed, in a historically bad way. Doesn't make you a good person if you were against the War on Iraq, but it's an automatic elimination of any sort of leadership role you were for it.
 
Knuckle Sandwich said:
Sinking right to the nomination and the presidency.
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Little did we know that the Dem nominee is usually referred to as Aquaman.

To Far Away Times said:
It's the most important thing Hillary ever had a chance to vote on. She failed, in a historically bad way. Doesn't make you a good person if you were against the War on Iraq, but it's an automatic elimination of any sort of leadership role you were for it.
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Try to follow the argument,
it's about Sanders getting porks from the US war machine.
Not everything is about Clinton.
 
Godslay said:
I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we?

Looking pretty rough at the moment.
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Why is it looking rough? She sews up the nomination even before California's polls close. I guess if you're concerned about the indictment that's something, but in the case of Sanders v Clinton she won.
 
I sort of get the feeling a Trump vs Sanders debate would end with both sides declaring victory. I get why Sanders is so into it (last shot at the national stage short of trying to go third party which I think he's too smart to ultimately do), and Trump gonna Trump, but it seems destined for pointlessness at best.
 
I have no idea what all the consequences would be, but my gut says:

1. Great theater
2. We need more public political discourse, not less. Even crappy discourse will do at this stage...

So i guess I'll lean towards 'for'.
 
It'd probably be a boring debate, in all honesty. We already know what they're both liable to say. Trump will go off the cuff as usual and go on about Bernie's socialist tendancies and how that's dangerous for America. Bernie will keep to his message/stump speech about wall street, the financial divide ruining America and Trump being dangerous to America.

They're both egotistical blowhards, all the same. It won't change any minds, but it's a great opportunity to put them both in the spotlight, which they obviously love and crave. I don't think it'd be as exciting as people think, at least to anyone aside from Trump/Sander supporters. Anyone interested in a proper debate on how to realistically move this country forward will roll their eyes and thank heaven that they're both not getting into the White House.
 
Godslay said:
Meanwhile over at Camp Hillary:

https://youtu.be/MjTuAV036yY?t=21
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Closer to the truth I think

T7Izpwm.gif
 
teruterubozu said:
I don't know why Hillary folks would be against this. It's good game tape for Hillary to see how Donald goes after a Dem in a debate situation.
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it's not at all the playbook that'd work for him against hilary, though - as a boxing fan, you're talking about watching your opponent take on a counter-puncher when you're a heavy-hitting southpaw. you're gonna see a little footwork, but not much that you didn't see in previous bouts, and certainly not much that would work against you.
 
teruterubozu said:
I don't know why Hillary folks would be against this. It's good game tape for Hillary to see how Donald goes after a Dem in a debate situation.
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Cause sanders only path to victory died in Oregon.
That's factual, not conjecture.

He needs something earth shattering beyond his control to win now.
 
Lmfao. Bernie threads are like worse versions of a Patriots Superbowl thread. What some people have to say about Bernie is just hilarious.

But that's all the elections are for some people. Gotta see their team win without understanding the importance of other aspects.

Edit: to be clear, I'm talking about both sides of this thread, though the Hilary side is saying some really stupid things.
 
phanphare said:
who said anything about winning? in fact the post you quoted took hillary being the nominee as a given
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His only chance of winning being out of his control is the primary reason he should not be debating the nominee of the other party.
 
I'm surprised that people think this will be an actual debate and not a tag team Hillary bash session.

Looking forward to Bernie getting stripped of his posts in the Senate.

Endless Sky said:
Lmfao. Bernie threads are like worse versions of a Patriots Superbowl thread. What some people have to say about Bernie is just hilarious.

But that's all the elections are for some people. Gotta see their team win without understanding the importance of other aspects.
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Please clarify.
 
Sirpopopop said:
I'm surprised that people think this will be an actual debate and not a tag team Hillary bash session.

Looking forward to Bernie getting stripped of his posts in the Senate.
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He is next in line to get his coveted Senate Budget Committee chair, which is why I still don't think this will happen.

If it does, he can say goodbye to that.
 
Sirpopopop said:
I'm surprised that people think this will be an actual debate and not a tag team Hillary bash session.

Looking forward to Bernie getting stripped of his posts in the Senate.
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Nah. If they forgave Lieberman they'll forgive Bernie.

EndlessSky said:
Lmfao. Bernie threads are like worse versions of a Patriots Superbowl thread. What some people have to say about Bernie is just hilarious.

But that's all the elections are for some people. Gotta see their team win without understanding the importance of other aspects.
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It seems like this election is all about Bernie Sanders for some people.
 
Bronx-Man said:
If Bernie wants to keep this simply about Trump, then that's great. Got no problem with that. But I also remember Bernie saying his campaign was going to be strictly about the issues, and we're seeing how that turned out.
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Pretty much where I am. I think it would be entertaining but would only want it to happen if he agrees to not talk about Hillary at all and sticks to the issues.
 
Sirpopopop said:
I'm surprised that people think this will be an actual debate and not a tag team Hillary bash session.

Looking forward to Bernie getting stripped of his posts in the Senate.
Click to expand...

That's my worry right there, both Trump and Sanders have a clear motive to go after Hillary rather than each other. Trump will do it because she's his actual enemy - not Sanders. Sanders might do it because he either think he's still got a chance or out of pure spite. I hope that Sanders has enough principle in him to actually go after Trump - who stands for everything he's against - but I imagine that the temptation for both of them to bond over attacking Hillary as the avatar of the establishment is going to be pretty big.

phanphare said:
I'm surprised that anyone would think Bernie would tag team with Donald Trump of all people

those people must be ignorant to how Bernie feels about Trump
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Sanders has done a lot of things lately that I thought were below him just a few months back. To me, it looks like he's built up genuine rage towards Clinton for beating him so soundly.
 
teruterubozu said:
I don't know why Hillary folks would be against this. It's good game tape for Hillary to see how Donald goes after a Dem in a debate situation.
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The only thing that would make me uncomfortable If I am in the Clinton camp is that this would be unprecedented. When you are in her position, you would prefer everything to be as predictable and boring as possible.

Of course, if I were in the Clinton camp, my first thought would be that there is no way in hell that this actually happens anyway.
 
phanphare said:
I'm surprised that anyone would think Bernie would tag team with Donald Trump of all people

those people must be ignorant to how Bernie feels about Trump
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It's not about how he feels but if Trump is talking about the establishment is bad, clinton is bad, the system is rigged, etc. What will Sanders say? You're wrong?
 
BlastProcessing said:
The only thing that would make me uncomfortable If I am in the Clinton camp is that this would be unprecedented. When you are in her position, you would prefer everything to be as predictable and boring as possible.

Of course, if I were in the Clinton camp, my first thought would be that there is no way in hell that this actually happens anyway.
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Well that's not possible now with Trump. Sure, Cruz or Rubio would have been a borefest, but she can throw that plan out the window.
 
rjinaz said:
Pretty much where I am. I think it would be entertaining but would only want it to happen if he agrees to not talk about Hillary at all and sticks to the issues.
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I'd still be mostly against it, since as previously mentioned, his chance at the nomination is out of his hands now, but I guess I could grin and bear it if such a stipulation was put on it.

The only reason Trump would agree to a debate would be to try to both use Sanders to attack Hillary and convert some of his supporters, especially the anti-trade ones since that's the primary substantive difference between the Clinton and Sanders.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
It's not about how he feels but if Trump is talking about the establishment is bad, clinton is bad, the system is rigged, etc. What will Sanders say? You're wrong?
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"Mr. Trump and I agree on something - the establishment is problematic. However, and here is where we differ - Trump has been a benefactor and fuel-provider for that establishment his entire life. You find it hard to believe that Mr. Trump will act in such a manner." etc.
 
Looks like Hillary should have agreed to the May debate like she originally promised. The reactions to this thread are proof that she really did have something to lose.

Plus:


Cons for Hillary said:
Needless to say, if Sanders wins this primary it will wound Mrs. Clinton greatly. And Sanders chances to do just that would rise if this debate comes off. The contest would no doubt be the most-watched event in Sanders' political life and Clinton wouldn't even be there to defend herself. For a campaign that's been suffering a number of failures lately, its refusal to debate Sanders and setting off this alternative contest vs. Drumpf is perhaps the biggest failure yet. She can't even benefit from a sympathy factor if Drumpf and Sanders get too nasty in attacking her in absentia, because her absence is entirely her own fault.

It's also not wise for Clinton to allow any major campaign event to occur without her participation. With many right wing and progressive voters still hoping she may be disqualified from the race if she is indicted over her State Department email scandal, this kind of "Clinton-less" event gives them a taste of what they've been praying for all year.
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Cons for Sanders said:
The only potential negative for Sanders is he's wading into waters vs. Drumpf that he's not quite used to. His battle with the Clinton campaign has become nastier of late, but it's nothing compared to what Donald Drumpf's opponents have had to face over the past 10 months. Sanders can get pretty nasty himself, as many of his Senate colleagues can tell you, but even though he can fight fire with fire against Drumpf it doesn't mean that's the kind of image he wants to present to undecided voters in California and nationwide.
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Suikoguy said:
His only chance of winning being out of his control is the primary reason he should not be debating the nominee of the other party.
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Yes, but I think there's a significant chance of him winning. This email thing isn't going to go away, which means it's Bernie's first chance to show himself as the leader of the Democratic party.

Like it or not, Hillary Clinton has now lied to the American people multiple times. She said she followed all the rules multiple times, which is now just proven as untrue. She broke multiple rules multiple times. She didn't seek the approval that the rules said she needed to have. She didn't report hacking attempts that the rules said she needed to report. She didn't turn over documents in a way that complied with federal law. All of this while being 4th in the line of succession.

The narrative that this was all some convenient accident is just not true. It wasn't convenient - emails coming from her personal server were flagged as spam. The server was shut down multiple times. She said outright that she didn't want her "personal accessible."

She should drop out. It's clear that she does not take the threats our nation faces in cyberwarfare and cybersecurity seriously and it will cripple her campaign. She may win the Presidency, but this chaos will certainly guarantee that the status quo in Congress remains.

Whether or not an indictment ever happens is a completely separate issue. This will obliterate trust in her as a candidate. She's lied about her email use. She's lied about being under sniper fire. She won't release her transcripts.

The issue is that she's outright lied. Multiple times. In this campaign cycle.

If Bernie can win California 70/30, I think the Superdelegates will start to listen.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
It's not about how he feels but if Trump is talking about the establishment is bad, clinton is bad, the system is rigged, etc. What will Sanders say? You're wrong?
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there are so many ways he could go with it because donald trump is donald trump. he could point out that trump is the literal establishment. he could point out that even given all of hillary's problems she's still worlds better than trump. it's really not that hard to envision.
 
Karsticles said:
"Mr. Trump and I agree on something - the establishment is problematic. However, and here is where we differ - Trump has been a benefactor and fuel-provider for that establishment his entire life. You find it hard to believe that Mr. Trump will act in such a manner." etc.
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Which both the mainstream and alt media, along with the general population, will immediately sum up as "Sanders and Trump agrees: establishment is the problem"
 
Mattenth said:
Yes, but I think there's a significant chance of him winning. This email thing isn't going to go away, which means it's Bernie's first chance to show himself as the leader of the Democratic party.

Like it or not, Hillary Clinton has now lied to the American people multiple times. She said she followed all the rules multiple times, which is now just proven as untrue. She broke multiple rules multiple times. She didn't seek the approval that the rules said she needed to have. She didn't report hacking attempts that the rules said she needed to report. She didn't turn over documents in a way that complied with federal law. All of this while being 4th in the line of succession.

She should drop out. It's clear that she does not take the threats our nation faces in cyberwarfare and cybersecurity seriously and it will cripple her campaign. It'll certainly guarantee that the status quo in Congress remains.

Whether or not an indictment ever happens is a completely separate issue. This will obliterate trust in her as a candidate. She's lied about her email use. She's lied about being under sniper fire. She won't release her transcripts.

The issue is that she's outright lied. Multiple times. In this campaign cycle.

If Bernie can win California 70/30, I think the Superdelegates will start to listen.
Click to expand...

Thanks for Bernie talking points weekly. Although I never subscribed.

Sanders won 56/44 in Oregon. He is not winning a less favorable California primary by more than that. It's not going to happen, unless something beyond his control happens. He could raise a billion dollars in the next week and it still would not be enough to shift that race to that extent.
 
EndlessSky said:
Lmfao. Bernie threads are like worse versions of a Patriots Superbowl thread. What some people have to say about Bernie is just hilarious.

But that's all the elections are for some people. Gotta see their team win without understanding the importance of other aspects.

Edit: to be clear, I'm talking about both sides of this thread, though the Hilary side is saying some really stupid things.
Click to expand...

#anyonebutthepatriots rofl
 
Nivash said:
Which both the mainstream and alt media, along with the general population, will immediately sum up as "Sanders and Trump agrees: establishment is the problem"
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And that's a problem for Hillary folks? I thought teaming Bernie up with the devil was the ultimate "I told you so".
 
To Far Away Times said:
It's the most important thing Hillary ever had a chance to vote on. She failed, in a historically bad way. Doesn't make you a good person if you were against the War on Iraq, but it's an automatic elimination of any sort of leadership role you were for it.
Click to expand...

Hillary voted for that assuming that the Bush administration wasn't lying and the pictures/etc were real. It was the wrong choice, but a defensible position.

The Bernie folks willing to go to Trump just to spite Hillary are really something else. They don't believe in what Bernie was saying, they just wanted the man. And ... these days I don't even believe Bernie believed in what he was saying, since he knows full well his actions are leading to a Trump win.

Screw him and his followers - they are enablers of racism and hate at this point. If Trump wins, they're just as guilty as Paterno was at Penn State.
 
Mattenth said:
Yes, but I think there's a significant chance of him winning. This email thing isn't going to go away, which means it's Bernie's first chance to show himself as the leader of the Democratic party.

Like it or not, Hillary Clinton has now lied to the American people multiple times. She said she followed all the rules multiple times, which is now just proven as untrue. She broke multiple rules multiple times. She didn't seek the approval that the rules said she needed to have. She didn't report hacking attempts that the rules said she needed to report. She didn't turn over documents in a way that complied with federal law. All of this while being 4th in the line of succession.

The narrative that this was all some convenient accident is just not true. It wasn't convenient - emails coming from her personal server were flagged as spam. The server was shut down multiple times. She said outright that she didn't want her "personal accessible."

She should drop out. It's clear that she does not take the threats our nation faces in cyberwarfare and cybersecurity seriously and it will cripple her campaign. It'll certainly guarantee that the status quo in Congress remains.

Whether or not an indictment ever happens is a completely separate issue. This will obliterate trust in her as a candidate. She's lied about her email use. She's lied about being under sniper fire. She won't release her transcripts.

The issue is that she's outright lied. Multiple times. In this campaign cycle.

If Bernie can win California 70/30, I think the Superdelegates will start to listen.
Click to expand...

I'm truly worried about the reality crash that's going to happen in 2 weeks for folks like this. They truly believe Sanders is in great shape to be the nominee and when that doesn't happen, it legitimately worries me how the reaction will go.
 
Mattenth said:
Yes, but I think there's a significant chance of him winning. This email thing isn't going to go away, which means it's Bernie's first chance to show himself as the leader of the Democratic party.

Like it or not, Hillary Clinton has now lied to the American people multiple times. She said she followed all the rules multiple times, which is now just proven as untrue. She broke multiple rules multiple times. She didn't seek the approval that the rules said she needed to have. She didn't report hacking attempts that the rules said she needed to report. She didn't turn over documents in a way that complied with federal law. All of this while being 4th in the line of succession.

The narrative that this was all some convenient accident is just not true. It wasn't convenient - emails coming from her personal server were flagged as spam. The server was shut down multiple times. She said outright that she didn't want her "personal accessible."

She should drop out. It's clear that she does not take the threats our nation faces in cyberwarfare and cybersecurity seriously and it will cripple her campaign. She may win the Presidency, but this chaos will certainly guarantee that the status quo in Congress remains.

Whether or not an indictment ever happens is a completely separate issue. This will obliterate trust in her as a candidate. She's lied about her email use. She's lied about being under sniper fire. She won't release her transcripts.

The issue is that she's outright lied. Multiple times. In this campaign cycle.

If Bernie can win California 70/30, I think the Superdelegates will start to listen.
Click to expand...
This is how I'm going to be replying to these posts now because it's literally all they deserve at this point:

shaq-laughing-o.gif
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
It's not about how he feels but if Trump is talking about the establishment is bad, clinton is bad, the system is rigged, etc. What will Sanders say? You're wrong?
Click to expand...

I know people love to say that this will be two hours of Hilary Bashing (and they will say this regardless), but Sanders is gonna go after Trump. He doesn't want Trump in the White House.
 
Battle of the extremists: whoever wins, we all lose especially Hillary for not showing up. They're both just going to shit on her while tons watch and she can't defend herself
 
teruterubozu said:
And that's a problem for Hillary folks? I thought teaming Bernie up with the devil was the ultimate "I told you so".
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Not in the primary, obviously. But the primary is for all intents and purposes over. The problem is with creating an idea of Trump and Sanders, the runner up in the democratic race, banding together over the need for the establishment to go, even if it's not true. It could have a very negative effect for Hillary in the general. It can end up both attracting people to Trump and keeping hardline Sanders supporters home.
 
braves01 said:
Battle of the extremists: whoever wins, we all lose especially Hillary
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It would be the least policy oriented debate ever!

Just platitudes vs platitudes.

"I'm going to build the wall!" "I'm going to make college free"
 
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