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[BanGy.nz]

Is it a possibility that the Superdelegates can cast their vote before July?

Yes or No?

I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance they do.

Spoiler

;p

 

[Maengun1]

I got laughed at in the Poligaf thread for suggesting that Hillary and the DNC should be courting rather than pushing away Sanders voters.

This was before the Nevada DNC Gavel and Run that that Lange pulled. Now it seems like they are trying to win the hearts and minds of Sander's Democrat and Independent voters by insulting them. It's a bold strategy.

I posted this earlier in this very thread, but the DNC *JUST* said they would give Sanders a bigger say over the party platform this summer. That's not courting?

People can do what they want. A rational Sanders supporter is likely to look at Clinton vs. Trump and conclude "duh" that it makes sense to vote for Clinton. And if you really want to vote third party, go ahead I guess? It's up to y'all.

What I'm tired of, and have been since like February, is the subset of Sanders supporters who shit on Hillary 24/7, or even go further -- you mentioned Lange, who has gotten death threats numbering in the thousands I believe -- and then when confronted with the slightest pushback on their BS counter with "omg you're not courting us at all right now! Don't you know how much you NEED us? Now I *~*~*REALLY*~*~* won't vote for Clinton!"

I ain't got time to deal with this all day every day. Frankly, with people at that level of irrationality, I don't want them voting with me.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Is it a possibility that the Superdelegates can cast their vote before July?

Yes or No?



Yeah, you aren't helping yourself.

Look we get that everyone wants to call them Bernie Bros or low information millennial voters, or people that don't understand how the system works.

That's a pretty big blanket statement to make, and it doesn't help your cause at all. Clinton isn't going to win if she doesn't court those voters. I would readjust that outlook.

If you think there's even a choice other than "No Trump in the White House," I don't know what to tell you.

It's really that simple. Trump University, his numerous bankruptcies, his comments on minorities, his relentless name calling, etc.

 

[Box of Kittens]

If that was his point, he'd stick to the issues instead of tearing Clinton down. That's not how he's campaigning of late.

Bernie really thinks he can turn this around and get the superdelegates to overturn the result of the primaries.

Which is why I've flipped from rooting for Bernie in his lost-cause primary attempt to a new attitude of "Fuck off, Bernard".

I'm no fan of the way Bernie is conducting his campaign, but I do think he has enough awareness to see that there's no chance of superdelegates overturning the results of the primaries. It would do long term damage to the Democratic Party and the superdelegates, by and large, prefer Hillary. And certainly his actions towards the superdelegates and the party in general are doing nothing to endear him to them.

I really think he just believes this is the best way to get as many delegates as possible and therefore to be in as strong a position as possible to influence the platform. He's been sending mixed signals, but that he's sending any signals that he's aware of the reality of his position is significant.

 

[BotoxAgent]

I posted this earlier in this very thread, but the DNC *JUST* said they would give Sanders a bigger say over the party platform this summer. That's not courting?

People can do what they want. A rational Sanders supporter is likely to look at Clinton vs. Trump and conclude "duh" that it makes sense to vote for Clinton. And if you really want to vote third party, go ahead I guess? It's up to y'all.

What I'm tired of, and have been since like February, is the subset of Sanders supporters who shit on Hillary 24/7, or even go further -- you mentioned Lange, who has gotten death threats numbering in the thousands I believe -- and then when confronted with the slightest pushback on their BS counter with "omg you're not courting us at all right now! Don't you know how much you NEED us? Now I *~*~*REALLY*~*~* won't vote for Clinton!"

I ain't got time to deal with this all day every day. Frankly, with people at that level of irrationality, I don't want them voting with me.

Yeah, I feel the same at this point

 

[border]

What are the odds that Trump actually goes through with the debate?

I mean, he already seems to be walking things back, nonsensically demanding that the event be used to raise 10+ million dollars for charity.

 

[Mully]

He has not lost. He is going to lose, but Hillary has yet to secure the nomination.

So what does a debate against a general election candidate do for Sanders, a primary candidate that by every objective observation has no chance of getting the nomination?

I completely understand where Sanders is coming from for this debate. I think, or at least hope, the reason why he is still sticking around is he hopes Clinton will be influenced or obligated to take on some of his policies for the general election. I admire that. As a former Bernie donor and supporter, that is what I hoped for from the start, but as a pragmatist, it's pretty clear that the longer he stays an opponent to Clinton, the more concretely divided the party will become; add the shine and spectacle of a nationally televised debate and the concrete becomes Quikcrete.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

I expect the president to make the right decisions, even if it goes against a promise.

The American president should make the right decision for the people.
Hillary is not making this decision to benefit the American people. It is purely for her own gain.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

I posted this earlier in this very thread, but the DNC *JUST* said they would give Sanders a bigger say over the party platform this summer. That's not courting?

People can do what they want. A rational Sanders supporter is likely to look at Clinton vs. Trump and conclude "duh" that it makes sense to vote for Clinton. And if you really want to vote third party, go ahead I guess? It's up to y'all.

What I'm tired of, and have been since like February, is the subset of Sanders supporters who shit on Hillary 24/7, or even go further -- you mentioned Lange, who has gotten death threats numbering in the thousands I believe -- and then when confronted with the slightest pushback on their BS counter with "omg you're not courting us at all right now! Don't you know how much you NEED us? Now I *~*~*REALLY*~*~* won't vote for Clinton!"

I ain't got time to deal with this all day every day. Frankly, with people at that level of irrationality, I don't want them voting with me.

Does any of this surprise you? Sander's base is basically Gamergate-lite. Doxing and threatening your opponent is ok, but if they don't bend over backwards to accomodate you, it's basically a hate crime.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

I'm no fan of the way Bernie is conducting his campaign, but I do think he has enough awareness to see that there's no chance of superdelegates overturning the results of the primaries. It would do long term damage to the Democratic Party and the superdelegates, by and large, prefer Hillary. And certainly his actions towards the superdelegates and the party in general are doing nothing to endear him to them.

I really think he just believes this is the best way to get as many delegates as possible and therefore to be in as strong a position as possible to influence the platform.

I mean, you get that those extra delegates aren't going to do shit for him, right? The pledged delegates are serious partisans who are going to vote with their candidate. So long as Bernie can't get to a majority of delegates (and he can't), the game is over. If Bernie wants something in the platform, and Hillary doesn't, it's not going to be in the platform because she will have the numbers to block it.

Bernie Sanders could have 2200 delegates or 22 delegates, so long as he's under a majority it doesn't really matter all that much.

 

[Prodigal Son]

I am pretty sure it shows people whose pages you liked or friends you have added.

Maybe I am wrong.

I think you're wrong. I've seen names there I don't recognize. Best I can tell it sometimes shows names of people or pages friends of yours have liked. I checked and have like 1 guy on my list who likes Shaun King. I honestly had to google the name when you mentioned it. Not too familiar with him. Is he a dick or something?

 

[B-Dubs]

The American president should make the right decision for the people.
Hillary is not making this decision to benefit the American people. It is purely for her own gain.

Because the American people need another debate in a race that's already over and won?

Bernie's the boxer that got KOed in the second round and doesn't realize it, it's not her job to humor him.

 

[sturgboski]

I'm no fan of the way Bernie is conducting his campaign, but I do think he has enough awareness to see that there's no chance of superdelegates overturning the results of the primaries. It would do long term damage to the Democratic Party and the superdelegates, by and large, prefer Hillary. And certainly his actions towards the superdelegates and the party in general are doing nothing to endear him to them.

I really think he just believes this is the best way to get as many delegates as possible and therefore to be in as strong a position as possible to influence the platform. He's been sending mixed signals, but that he's sending any signals that he's aware of the reality of his position is significant.

1) DNC already ceded ground to him in order to build the platform at the convention

2) Partaking in this debate with Trump is a big fuck you to the party. All it accomplishes is feeding his ego. Let's be rational adults, the debate will be Trump laying on his back and agreeing with everything Sanders says and both will spend time attacking Clinton and the Democratic party as a whole. Why do you think the RNC is all for this?

 

[Clockwork5]

I'm no fan of the way Bernie is conducting his campaign, but I do think he has enough awareness to see that there's no chance of superdelegates overturning the results of the primaries. It would do long term damage to the Democratic Party and the superdelegates, by and large, prefer Hillary. And certainly his actions towards the superdelegates and the party in general are doing nothing to endear him to them.

I really think he just believes this is the best way to get as many delegates as possible and therefore to be in as strong a position as possible to influence the platform. He's been sending mixed signals, but that he's sending any signals that he's aware of the reality of his position is significant.

Yeah. It really seems as though Sanders isn't going for the nomination but for power within the party.

The Democratic Party would be foolish to ignore the impact he has made and to do so would be quite costly in the next mid-term elections where Democrats historically fail to gain any support outside of their most fervorous base.

 

[Link]

Yeah, you aren't helping yourself.

Look we get that everyone wants to call them Bernie Bros or low information millennial voters, or people that don't understand how the system works.

That's a pretty big blanket statement to make, and it doesn't help your cause at all. Clinton isn't going to win if she doesn't court those voters. I would readjust that outlook.

Frankly, I'm over it at this point. Maengun summed it up perfectly.

I posted this earlier in this very thread, but the DNC *JUST* said they would give Sanders a bigger say over the party platform this summer. That's not courting?

People can do what they want. A rational Sanders supporter is likely to look at Clinton vs. Trump and conclude "duh" that it makes sense to vote for Clinton. And if you really want to vote third party, go ahead I guess? It's up to y'all.

What I'm tired of, and have been since like February, is the subset of Sanders supporters who shit on Hillary 24/7, or even go further -- you mentioned Lange, who has gotten death threats numbering in the thousands I believe -- and then when confronted with the slightest pushback on their BS counter with "omg you're not courting us at all right now! Don't you know how much you NEED us? Now I *~*~*REALLY*~*~* won't vote for Clinton!"

I ain't got time to deal with this all day every day. Frankly, with people at that level of irrationality, I don't want them voting with me.

Get over yourselves.

 

[Armaros]

The American president should make the right decision for the people.
Hillary is not making this decision to benefit the American people. It is purely for her own gain.

I guess the millions of people who voted for her over Bernie is just Hillary in disguise.

 

[Azzanadra]

Does any of this surprise you? Sander's base is basically Gamergate-lite. Doxing and threatening your opponent is ok, but if they don't bend over backwards to accomodate you, it's basically a hate crime.

There it is! Brushing an entire group for the actions of the few, as a Pakistani guy this to me sounds like the new "Muslims/brown people are terrorists."

 

[Makai]

Actually, I think this debate benefits Democrats. Gives Hillary a test-run to see what works against Trump.

 

[dakini]

I'm just imagining Hillary debating McCain in '08... She would've been the most hated person in the party until the day she died.

 

[BotoxAgent]

The American president should make the right decision for the people.
Hillary is not making this decision to benefit the American people. It is purely for her own gain.

And Bernie is doing it for his own selfish gain. Dude is low on cash, and the primary is a lost cause. He's looking for free air time and fighting for relevancy. To think he's doing this to get his progressive message across rings hollow to me at this point.....he repeats the same stump talking points ad nauseum already. After all the desperate conspiracy laden rhetoric he's been insinuating as of late, Hillary is smart not to indulge in his delusions anymore

 

[Box of Kittens]

I mean, you get that those extra delegates aren't going to do shit for him, right? The pledged delegates are serious partisans who are going to vote with their candidate. So long as Bernie can't get to a majority of delegates (and he can't), the game is over. If Bernie wants something in the platform, and Hillary doesn't, it's not going to be in the platform because she will have the numbers to block it.

Bernie Sanders could have 2200 delegates or 22 delegates, so long as he's under a majority it doesn't really matter all that much.

It's more about being able to say "I have this much support" and using that to negotiate for concessions in the platform. I mean, if we're being completely honest, the platform isn't really worth all that much. But he's pretty clearly signaled that he wants to influence it and I can't believe that he's so detached from reality that he would buy his own BS about superdelegates. Maybe Weaver is that dumb, but I don't think Sanders is.

 

[minor effort]

The American president should make the right decision for the people.
Hillary is not making this decision to benefit the American people. It is purely for her own gain.

To do that a candidate does have to make decisions along the way in the interest of their campaign. Walking into what looks like a hostile debate from a hostile candidate on a hostile network when it's effectively too late for another debate to really overturn the primary battle - even if it were an issues-focused one - just isn't a good idea.

At a certain point every politician gets elected by playing smart politics. Sorry?

 

[Toxi]

Actually, I think this debate benefits Democrats. Gives Hillary a test-run to see what works against Trump.

You'd think all those Republican debates would be enough.

 

[Godslay]

In that case Cruz could still overtake Trump.

The only way you're semantics argument works, is if the Supers were to change their mind and override the popular vote and pledged delegate vote.

Why would they do that? Sanders and his campaign have attacked most of them, some of them personally.

DNC is still giving Bernie concessions, he's garnering support for his down ticket supporters, as well as getting plenty of donations to continue on. Why should he stop?

Not to mention that pesky nothingburger email security review that keeps following her around.

Look everyone knows that no one can wrap this up until July. Bernie can't get the delegates and he's far behind Hillary. That's obvious. If Hillary is a powerful candidate and it's just children and Bernie Bros, she'll survive just fine.

I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance they do.

Spoiler

;p

Point was, nobody knows the odds of indictment.

I posted this earlier in this very thread, but the DNC *JUST* said they would give Sanders a bigger say over the party platform this summer. That's not courting?

People can do what they want. A rational Sanders supporter is likely to look at Clinton vs. Trump and conclude "duh" that it makes sense to vote for Clinton. And if you really want to vote third party, go ahead I guess? It's up to y'all.

What I'm tired of, and have been since like February, is the subset of Sanders supporters who shit on Hillary 24/7, or even go further -- you mentioned Lange, who has gotten death threats numbering in the thousands I believe -- and then when confronted with the slightest pushback on their BS counter with "omg you're not courting us at all right now! Don't you know how much you NEED us? Now I *~*~*REALLY*~*~* won't vote for Clinton!"

I ain't got time to deal with this all day every day. Frankly, with people at that level of irrationality, I don't want them voting with me.

I'm going to let you in on a secret. I've been a Democrat since around the time of Al Gore. I'm perfectly fine with someone attempting to shake up the DNC.

It's healthy to challenge and break up the establishment.

As far as Lange, death threats shouldn't happen.

If you think there's even a choice other than "No Trump in the White House," I don't know what to tell you.

It's really that simple. Trump University, his numerous bankruptcies, his comments on minorities, his relentless name calling, etc.

I won't be scared into voting for a dirt bag one way or another.

 

[B-Dubs]

Actually, I think this debate benefits Democrats. Gives Hillary a test-run to see what works against Trump.

I'd rather we didn't tip him off to the big punches and give him time to prepare for it.

 

[Makai]

You'd think all those Republican debates would be enough.

Not equivalent. Different audiences.

 

[Aaron Strife]

The irony is I'm just imagining Clinton debating Trump before Sanders drops out.

Sanders voters would be furious at how smug and entitled she's being, debating the other party nominee before wrapping up her own primary.

If Sanders goes through with this it'll be the equivalent of Cruz jumping the gun and naming his VP while trailing badly in 2nd place. It'll look stupid to everyone.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Actually, I think this debate benefits Democrats. Gives Hillary a test-run to see what works against Trump.

If I trusted Bernie enough to think he'd draw a clear distinction between what he and Hillary Clinton believe and what Trump believes, I wouldn't necessarily mind it.

Bernie's recent behavior gives me no reason to think that this debate will be anything but 2 hours of bashing the DNC and Hillary Clinton.

 

[sturgboski]

The irony is I'm just imagining Clinton debating Trump before Sanders drops out.

Sanders voters would be furious at how smug and entitled she's being, debating the other party nominee before wrapping up her own primary.

If Sanders goes through with this it'll be the equivalent of Cruz jumping the gun and naming his VP while trailing badly in 2nd place. It'll look stupid to everyone.

And much like that event it will pave the way for a Trump white house. Again, why is it that the RNC is so supportive of this debate?

If I trusted Bernie enough to think he'd draw a clear distinction between what he and Hillary Clinton believe and what Trump believes, I wouldn't necessarily mind it.

Bernie's recent behavior gives me no reason to think that this debate will be anything but 2 hours of bashing the DNC and Hillary Clinton.

That will be broken up with Trump agreeing with and pandering to Sanders supporters.

They get a sneak peak of what the Dems might have planned for the debates and it gives Trump the ability to wail on Clinton without her being able to respond.

It was a rhetorical question but your answer is apt

 

[B-Dubs]

And much like that event it will pave the way for a Trump white house. Again, why is it that the RNC is so supportive of this debate?

They get a sneak peak of what the Dems might have planned for the debates and it gives Trump the ability to wail on Clinton without her being able to respond.

It was a rhetorical question but your answer is apt

Well it seems to go over a lot of people's heads so it needed to be said.

 

[Prodigal Son]

If I trusted Bernie enough to think he'd draw a clear distinction between what he and Hillary Clinton believe and what Trump believes, I wouldn't necessarily mind it.

Bernie's recent behavior gives me no reason to think that this debate will be anything but 2 hours of bashing the DNC and Hillary Clinton.

Why would they focus for two hours on what they agree on? It's a debate.

This is honestly baffling. How does that even play out in your mind?

The irony is I'm just imagining Clinton debating Trump before Sanders drops out.

Sanders voters would be furious at how smug and entitled she's being, debating the other party nominee before wrapping up her own primary.

If Sanders goes through with this it'll be the equivalent of Cruz jumping the gun and naming his VP while trailing badly in 2nd place. It'll look stupid to everyone.

Most people are excited though. Even mainstream news TV thinks it's interesting. Sanders voters are excited, as are Trump voters (obviously for different reasons).

 

[darkside31337]

And much like that event it will pave the way for a Trump white house. Again, why is it that the RNC is so supportive of this debate?

Because Trump would destroy Bernie in a debate. Trump is way better at it than people give credit for and its incredible free advertising for Trump with no real drawback given the fact hes debating Bernie.

 

[Ryaaan14]

When's the debate on

 

[B-Dubs]

Because Trump would destroy Bernie in a debate. Trump is way better at it than people give credit for and its incredible free advertising for Trump with no real drawback given the fact hes debating Bernie.

Let's be real, if Bernie gets his ass kicked it's going to neuter his ability to affect the general election. He'd be kicking himself in the knees and making himself unable to help fight Trump.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

There it is! Brushing an entire group for the actions of the few, as a Pakistani guy this to me sounds like the new "Muslims/brown people are terrorists."

There's a difference between groups to which membership can only be through active choice, and groups to which one can be born into.

Additionally, with Sanders, we can easily identify leadership and disseminate their message, which includes downplaying harassment sent towards DNC officials.

But sure. Go ahead and draw comparisons to racism and Islamaphobia on the part of the guy who grew up in and lived half his life in a Muslim country if that makes you feel better

 

[tenchir]

Won't they both just bash Hillary as much as they can get away with?

 

[minor effort]

Why would they focus for two hours on what they agree on? It's a debate.

This is honestly baffling. How does that even play out in your mind?

You don't think a Fox News hosted debate would have a line of questioning slanted so that both candidates can air their attacks on Hillary Clinton, with Trump giving faux-sympathy to Sander supporters?

That's how things have gone for the past few months. Both Trump and Fox News have been pretending to be sympathetic to Sanders and his campaign. This plays right into that.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Because the American people need another debate in a race that's already over and won?

Bernie's the boxer that got KOed in the second round and doesn't realize it, it's not her job to humor him.

Nope. not over yet. Still plenty of Democrats and Independents that want to vote.
He has every right to stay in the race to the very end.
Either way she should stick to her word. But I know that is difficult for her to do.

I guess the millions of people who voted for her over Bernie is just Hillary in disguise.

Still millions left to vote.

And Bernie is doing it for his own selfish gain.

Maybe. But at least he is not going back on his word but doing it.
unlike Hillary.

To do that a candidate does have to make decisions along the way in the interest of their campaign.
...
At a certain point every politician gets elected by playing smart politics. Sorry?

Making promises you cannot / will not keep is not smart politics. Especially at this stage and this day and age.

 

[User1608]

Let's be real, if Bernie gets his ass kicked it's going to neuter his ability to affect the general election. He'd be kicking himself in the knees and making himself unable to help fight Trump.

Easily my second biggest concern outside of potentially sniping at Hillary.

No doubt if he does well it could help but the opposite outcome is possible too, as you've mentioned.

 

[darkside31337]

Let's be real, if Bernie gets his ass kicked it's going to neuter his ability to affect the general election. He'd be kicking himself in the knees and making himself unable to help fight Trump.

Theres no drawback for Bernie either because he doesn't care. He's delusional enough to think he hasn't lost so he'd go through with this.

The party should completely disavow him if something this absurd actually happens.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Nope. not over yet. Still plenty of Democrats and Independents that want to vote.
He has every right to stay in the race to the very end.
Either way she should stick to her word. But I know that is difficult for her to do.



Still millions left to vote.



Maybe. But at least he is not going back on his word but doing it.
unlike Hillary.



Making promises you cannot / will not keep is not smart politics. Especially at this stage and this day and age.

Hillary is such a fucking lying bitch that she isn't doing a debate that literally no one outside of S4P cares about.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Nope. not over yet. Still plenty of Democrats and Independents that want to vote.
He has every right to stay in the race to the very end.
Either way she should stick to her word. But I know that is difficult for her to do.



Still millions left to vote.



Maybe. But at least he is not going back on his word but doing it.
unlike Hillary.



Making promises you cannot / will not keep is not smart politics. Especially at this stage and this day and age.

And attitudes like this is why liberals keep losing winnable fights.

 

[johnsmith]

Is is Bernie's version of Cruz's Fiorina stunt. Completely desperate and stupid.

 

[Mully]

Guys, I swear that FifaSnipe is not irrationally lashing out like I did in 2004 when Dean lost the primaries. This is completely different. It's about integrity and reading shoddily reported hit-pieces about Hillary on Jezebel.

 

[minor effort]

Making promises you cannot / will not keep is not smart politics. Especially at this stage and this day and age.

In this case it is. A broken promise over a scheduled debate will be largely forgotten, but video footage of a disastrous debate (one that smells like a trap to begin with) would get recirculated until November.

Calculating both scenarios, cancelling the debate is the lesser risk.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Why would they focus for two hours on what they agree on? It's a debate.

This is honestly baffling. How does that even play out in your mind?

It's a "debate" with Donald Trump, who has been making a play for either converting Sanders supporters or at least poisoning the well such that Sanders supporters won't consider voting for Clinton. And it's put on by Fox News, an organization that is dedicated to assisting the cause of Donald Trump's campaign.

Where do you think any sharp distinction is going to come from? Donald Trump's mouth? The questions presented by the Fox News team? From what source do you think Sanders is going to get any room that would allow him to distance himself and Clinton from Trump?

 

[Clockwork5]

So what does a debate against a general election candidate do for Sanders, a primary candidate that by every objective observation has no chance of getting the nomination?

I completely understand where Sanders is coming from for this debate. I think, or at least hope, the reason why he is still sticking around is he hopes Clinton will be influenced or obligated to take on some of his policies for the general election. I admire that. As a former Bernie donor and supporter, that is what I hoped for from the start, but as a pragmatist, it's pretty clear that the longer he stays an opponent to Clinton, the more concretely divided the party will become; add the shine and spectacle of a nationally televised debate and the concrete becomes Quikcrete.

I think he is discontent with the established Democratic Party and has found traction with those sentiments among a significant portion of the Party's voters.

He is completely positioning for post election influence, as he should, if he truly wants to see change within the party and hope to lend more political weight to his agenda.

Is this stunt making him friends with the Party? absolutely not; but it is, most likely in his eyes, an opportunity to continue to rally his supporters and the closer to the DNC the Sanders supporters continue to rally around him, the more legitimacy they possess in an important time for the party.

 

[border]

Trump v Sanders would undoubtedly be interesting.....I think Trump could easily bait him into getting flustered and going crazy.

 

[Davide]

That was before she won. She's won and there is no need.

I must have missed the last nine primaries of the race as well as the democratic convention...

 

[darkside31337]

Also this Hillary - Bernie debate shit is stupid. They've debated 8 9 times already. If she doesn't want to debate him again then tough shit.